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Should T2 dungeons be reworked?

tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2013 in PvE Discussion
With most of the skips and exploits patched in the main T2 dungeons, I was wondering if they shouldn't be rebalanced so that people with the GS to enter(ie fresh T2s) would have a better chance of finishing them. I can't really imagine a 8300 to 9k GS party being able to complete Karrundax or Spider for instance(due to 2nd boss and final boss fights respectively).

It just seems silly that for certain dungeons, T2 gear or a cheese party makeup is almost required to run the dungeon.

Just a thought anyway. Feel free to jump on me for being a nub for agree with me.
Post edited by tang56 on
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014

Comments

  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Nah, you're correct. Until I see a 8300 GS party on video killing first 2 Karru bosses, or last Spider, it never happened, and it's borderline impossible. These are signs of bad design.

    T2 Dungeons should be made accessible to their intended party: 1 of each class at 8300 GS, randoms from queue. Now, they should be challenging, not easy, to this party. Challenging means that the party should succeed after a few failures.

    For experienced parties with high end gear, these dungeons should offer challenge modes/achievements for killing bosses some special, very difficult way. Something like "Kill Karrundax without killing any adds" or "Kill Fulminorax while 5 adds are alive in the ring" and so on. Sure, to make this really work, we would need better and more diverse boss mechanics, but it is doable.
    Obviously for such special kills there should be special rewards. I'm thinking of unique mounts, dyes, stuff like this. It would refresh the PvE scene and give many currently bored players a reason to farm.
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    pers3phone wrote: »
    Obviously for such special kills there should be special rewards. I'm thinking of unique mounts, dyes, stuff like this. It would refresh the PvE scene and give many currently bored players a reason to farm.

    If there was a public Armory, or some way to see others Achievements, there would not need to be "special rewards".

    Good idea otherwise.
  • cloud990plcloud990pl Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    pers3phone wrote: »
    Nah, you're correct. Until I see a 8300 GS party on video killing first 2 Karru bosses, or last Spider, it never happened, and it's borderline impossible. These are signs of bad design.

    T2 Dungeons should be made accessible to their intended party: 1 of each class at 8300 GS, randoms from queue. Now, they should be challenging, not easy, to this party. Challenging means that the party should succeed after a few failures.

    For experienced parties with high end gear, these dungeons should offer challenge modes/achievements for killing bosses some special, very difficult way. Something like "Kill Karrundax without killing any adds" or "Kill Fulminorax while 5 adds are alive in the ring" and so on. Sure, to make this really work, we would need better and more diverse boss mechanics, but it is doable.
    Obviously for such special kills there should be special rewards. I'm thinking of unique mounts, dyes, stuff like this. It would refresh the PvE scene and give many currently bored players a reason to farm.

    Problem with T2 dungeons is in adds that can kill you in a blink of an eye and have like 100k HP (not to mention immune mobs).
    people with 8300 GS (entire party) can't constantly attack/dodge/heal/block due to number/power/immunity of thoose mobs.
    As for people with 12k +GS whining about T2 being tooo easy there should be "heroic mode" in which mobs/boss would have 2xHP and 1.5xattack power to show them how it was with lower tier gear to be in T2 dungeon.
  • kumalucakumaluca Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Every single time I do this someone drops out right away or soon after then everyone does.It's an absolute waste of time.I love this game but it needs so much work and the community in general seem like little kids with dollar signs in their eyes only.I know there's plenty of great members but there's always a bad apple in the group when paired.Where's the real people that play like a team?It's like 30 in a row for me that people quit pretty early.Making these a little bit easier would help keep people from getting discouraged and quitting at the first sign of problems.Well help being the key word here.This alone is the reason I play less and less and have been thinking about moving on to something different.
  • drsconedrscone Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    It's worth noting that all the Feywild mini dungeons and Skirmishes have check points that have to be completed before you can move to the next. The sooner that they rework the old epic dungeons to get rid of the exploits the better. Playing them as a newb is almost impossible - if you don't know the short cuts or get stuck (e.g. gate jumping on SP) you're in for the high jump. It's a great way to block new blood from the game...
    Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
    Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    8300 is a minimum but it doesn't mean you have to play it with the minimum GS. With T1 gear you can reach 10k GS without any issue (with 2 different sets), so, i don't get what's all this madness about the minimum gear score requirement. If you don't succeed at 8.3 then pvp more and run cloak tower and idriss until you get some better gear... :rolleyes: Problem solved. And if you can't do any of the T2s with 10k GS then you better find another game. If T2s are too hard for you then you probably didn't play enough T1s.

    I agree that exploits should be fixed - not with worthless invisible walls but with an anti cheat program. Something MMO-ish no one can bypass. It doesn't mean dungeons have to be ruined and dumbed down. They are easy enough. Exploiters don't exploit because the game is hard but because they never learnt to play the game since they had 0 challenge.
    kumaluca wrote: »
    Every single time I do this someone drops out right away or soon after then everyone does.It's an absolute waste of time.I love this game but it needs so much work and the community in general seem like little kids with dollar signs in their eyes only.I know there's plenty of great members but there's always a bad apple in the group when paired.Where's the real people that play like a team?It's like 30 in a row for me that people quit pretty early.Making these a little bit easier would help keep people from getting discouraged and quitting at the first sign of problems.Well help being the key word here.This alone is the reason I play less and less and have been thinking about moving on to something different.

    Then the issue would be a 1h leaver penalty for PvE like in STO. In STO, you deal with the team members you have or you make your own group. You use the public queue at your own risks, and if you quit you're not welcome to start over to ruin another group.
  • mvffin1mvffin1 Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    If you can't finish T2, all you need is more CW with High Vizier, or more Repel/Shield/Sunburst. That is what's wrong with the game.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I kill draco 3-4 times a day and just spent an hour wiping at pyraphenia - granted we only had 1 HV wizard (me) but when the fire giant spawned it was insta-wiped.

    Sure it seem the solution is "get 3 HV, CWs, all super experienced with 5 million in gear and decked out augments" - THEN you can win, all other parties seem to fail. Ridiculous.
  • skylher12skylher12 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    These are EPIC dungeons, you can't expect to just go in there and complete it without learning to play as a group or your character... my guild started with pirates and frozen heart, and wiped many times learning the fights and dungeons most of us at no more than 9000gs ... many times we didnt complete them when starting out. as we got better gear, and better at our characters we slowly got those two on farm and moved on to spider.

    now that doesnt help those that join pug groups or dont have quality players in their guild, but this is the way it should be, its an epic, similar to a raid you have to work at it to complete them. what i see most times if people expect to tag along and have the rest of the group carry their sorry butts through the dungeon and not contribute at all. not gonna complete the likes of spellplaque or karandux by not practicing... this isnt little leaque where everyone gets a trophy, you gotta earn it!!
  • monkeydcecilmonkeydcecil Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The Epic dungeons are too hard, to pug. And as a causal player I find that disappointing. I want to be able to do them and defeat them just as much as guildies. But I am unable to, most of the time after a party wipe or two someone quits. I should not need a perfect party that plays perfectly to defeat a dungeon. Especially since it is the only thing to do at the end game. I understand that they are Epic, but that is why there are only available at 60 and require gear scores. I just fell that there are two many adds and some bosses are way to strong. Every dungeon should be available to any player to defeat, not just the perfect ones.
  • yokihiroyokihiro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 510 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    Well first of all: Not every pug is made of ppl having the same GS, there are some having higher GS and some lower GS. IF you have some good DC or GF and the people use their brains then the GS is not the problem. The problem is when people can't dodge and play dumb.

    But on some points op is right. First mob of Karrundax for example. This is basically an end mob. It is much harder to beat than Karrundax himself and that is stupid. Mobs difficulty should progress. If the first mob is harder than the final boss then it is bad game design.

    Devs though fixing more and more exploits which is good. Jumping over the door in SP is no longer possible and I was really suprised that our PUG team (normal queue) was able to beat the 2nd boss in SP on the first try just with some talk before how we will do it and people basically using their brains. It was a tough but fun fight and afterwards everyone felt like "Hey, we made it". More of those fixes pls.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The real problem is that the exploits went unfixed for so long, doing a dungeon with exploits has become the de facto norm, and it is hard to find a team that is willing to do the dungeon legitimately. If you do join a PUG via LFG, the *expectation* is that you know the runs and the exploits and they will not hesitate to kick you (or ragequit) if you don't already know.

    The next time you are forming a team for Karrundax, just try suggesting that your team ought to take a GF instead of a 2nd CW. They will laugh at you. That is the sad part, because to do it legitimately, a good GF is *required*, especially for 2nd boss fight.
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