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suggestion: Reincarnation

inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited September 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
You already sell respec tokens, name change tokens, and appearance change tokens. Why not sell Reincarnation tokens? you can have a lesser version for zen and a full version via a quest or whatever you want.

Lesser version: Start over at Race select screen. allows you to rechoose race, customize appearance, and and redo intial stat roll allocation. You maintain your same class. Either keep your level or you could make us relevel from level 1 again I don't really care. You keep: all your gear, tradeskills, titles, etc. Before the BOP change if you messed up your character or chose the wrong race you could easily reroll from the beginning and be leveled and geared up in a week tops. Nowadays though gear is too hard to replace on a new character.

Full Version: steal straight from DDO. You restart at level 1 and rechoose everything (ie class). You maintain a passive buff from your previous level 60 class and can do this as many times as you want, possibly releveling the same class up to a certain cap (3 or 5 times to max out the passive buff per class, whatever). Again you keep all your tradeskill levels/gear/items/etc. suggestions for passive buff per class (these can be whatever, just suggestions)
TR: 1% Crit rate
GWF: 1% Deflect
CW: 1% AP Gain
DC: 1% health Regen
GF: 1% Damage resistance

Full version would sell a lot of bank slots for people keeping gear sets for each class along with rejuvenating the low level areas with activity and lesser dungeons with experienced players. lesser version allows people to fix mistakes made during character creation which can gimp a character for life and there is currently no way to repair.

tia for reading random moderator who hopefully passes suggestions along to devs. flame away rpers :)
Post edited by inthefade462 on

Comments

  • tinukedatinukeda Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Given how quickly you can power level in this game, this would be abused and twinked in about a week flat.

    Also, I hope when you say 'tradeskill', you mean the crafting skills and not the ones used on nodes? If the latter, just imagine a bot/farmer who had reincarnated enough to have all 5 skills.
  • enderlin50enderlin50 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I do agree we need the ability to redo starting stats, race, ect...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    hmm.... God idea but i think the 1% is too strong mybe ability score +1 tr dex /cler wis /gwf str/ cw int/ gf con
    But the life time of the game can be extended with this .

    Sorry for my BAD-BAD eng.
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    tinukeda wrote: »
    Given how quickly you can power level in this game, this would be abused and twinked in about a week flat.

    Also, I hope when you say 'tradeskill', you mean the crafting skills and not the ones used on nodes? If the latter, just imagine a bot/farmer who had reincarnated enough to have all 5 skills.
    I meant leadership platesmithing etc. You only have the node skill for the class you are currently playing. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    It provides an end game activity the game is sorely lacking with minimal effort required by devs.

    And powering through it? Ya some will. Lets say 3 days to power to 60, 5 classes 5times each to max out your passives, 75 days of hardcore grinding. For most its more like 6+ months of normal play. And thats your existing players populating the low level leveling zones and t1/t2 dungeons. All for the cost of maybe 1 day of work for 1 programmer to make it happen. Artists are still free to mass produce zen store items, devs are still free to not fix existing content while slaving away at module 2, etc.
  • tinukedatinukeda Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I meant leadership platesmithing etc. You only have the node skill for the class you are currently playing. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    It provides an end game activity the game is sorely lacking with minimal effort required by devs.

    And powering through it? Ya some will. Lets say 3 days to power to 60, 5 classes 5times each to max out your passives, 75 days of hardcore grinding. For most its more like 6+ months of normal play. And thats your existing players populating the low level leveling zones and t1/t2 dungeons. All for the cost of maybe 1 day of work for 1 programmer to make it happen. Artists are still free to mass produce zen store items, devs are still free to not fix existing content while slaving away at module 2, etc.

    Ah, I think you might be unaware of how quickly people claim to be able to power level. As in: they can do it in under 24 hours of play. (and it's not exactly 'hardcore' grinding; just do all the quest lines or pvp a bunch. no dungeons required)

    Also, a code change like this would take a LOT more than 1 day's work for 1 person.

    Overall it's not a completely worthless idea, but this is the kind of thing you save for a game that in its 'old age'; a game that's only 3 months old like this, not so much. How bout you just have a little patience and see what comes up next in module 2?
  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    So you are saying that people can go 25days without sleep to max out a few passives? A)who cares if they do, it still buys a month for new content to come out and b) 1 day was being very generous, the coding already exists to return to char creation. A real programmer could do it in 30 minutes and qa tested by lunch. But lolcryptic so yeah 1 day to code, they dont have a qa dept.
  • millertime197933millertime197933 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    I've been saying this for a while. The reincarnation thing would be absolutely great. So what if people power level. Adjust the bonus from reincarnating to match the progression speed. What it does is provide endless progression to your toon, meaning you always have something to do when you log in. It also has synergy with the foundry, and keeps all content viable.

    According to this forum, everything can be abused. Those same people cried about adding people into dungeons being abused, so they removed it, and now when someone leaves your dungeon you are screwed. It only takes a few days to level up in DDO (20 level cap), and somehow the game doesn't collapse over "power creep" or whatever fancy term someone wants to use. You can say it is too early to implement in a new game, but at the end of the day...there is a large percentage of people who have hit 60, have their desired gear, and just dont have anything to do. They either play another game until the next module is released, or they login to PVP or help guildies to kill time.

    The DDO system for reincarnation is one of the best things about that game, and (are you listening Cryptic), the item needed to true reincarnate makes the most money out of their cash shop by a large margin. Sure you can farm it, however once you hit 20 and are ready to reincarnate back to level 1...you just can't wait. Reincarnation has kept me interested in DDO for 7 years now, and this game is beginning to lose my interest after only a few months even though this game has a much better play experience and better graphics.

    What DDO does to slow progression is that your first time through goes pretty quick. The second recinarantion needs a little more xp per level, and then the third reincarnation needs even more. After the third it stabilizies. So for example you need 1250 to get to level 2 the first time...the second time you need 1500, and the third time 2000. The % increase can easily get applied in this game because you have so many ways to get xp to supplement the standard leveling campaign (foundry, PVP, dungeons, skirmishes etc.). This system also encourages you to play all the classes because you are looking for whatever bonus playing that class gives. There is also a cap on the number of times you can play the class (x3) to continue stacking the bonus. Granted there are more classes in DDO as it is an older game, so there is almost nobody who has played every class three times on a single toon.

    So many gaps get filled with the reincarnation. What do you do with all those lion seals? Wait until you reincarnate, then use them to purchase gear for yourself when you level, that's what. Missed a skirmish for an achievement? No problem, play it next time around. Want to see if you can solo a regular dungeon at level? Do it, you can afford good gear at level and over time your past life bonus is adding up so you "might" be strong enough to do it. Challenges are fun. Want a reason to do a foundry other than a 15 minute one that gives you credit for the x4 you need for daily....play a 120 minute campaign just for xp! You won't miss blackdagger ruins because you've been there and done that.

    Sure the bonuses make your toon more powerful at level 30 than someone going through level 30 their first time...but you earned it, you worked towards it. The bonuses dont have to be game breaking either. What the OP put is a little much. But perhaps playing a DC gives you +0.5% recharge speed increase per life, and a CW gives you 0.5% AP gain per life. Is that game breaking? No its not, think about how much you get from a +2% increase from the Feywild boon. You barely notice it, but it you sorta still do notice it some. Play every class x3 times and you get a special bonus, like +1 to all stats.
  • yyrkoonstyphoonyyrkoonstyphoon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I would love to see true reincarnate options like DDo has to offer. I think if it let you reroll with a slight bonus (or regular reroll but you can apply the tr points) would be great.

    and a reincarnate bank slot... freaking inventory management in this game is the worse aspect of play... i spend more time trying fit in loot.. I bought a bank slot, but when i found out it was not account wide... who would have thought? my bank slots in ddo, DCUO, Marvel, ect all are account wide...
  • slayorianslayorian Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This would be abused so hard it would likely ruin the game. I'd definitely leave if this were to happen.
  • tinukedatinukeda Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    ..snip..

    Now see, that's a much better way to argue for this kind of a system, and from they you put it it makes me like the idea now. We actually had a system like this back in my MUD days but you could only do 2 go throughs (and got all your skills from both classes by the end). The only problem I see is that you really kind of have to design the game system around something like this from early on and this really seems to not be the direction they decided to go in. (it also discourages making multiple characters, which would discourage character slot sales)

    I still think it would be too early in the lifecycle of the game for this kind of drastic change though. None of us has any concrete numbers on what percentage of characters are max level either, so speculation about that being a 'large percentage' is unfounded hearsay.
  • millertime197933millertime197933 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Once again someone says something is gonna be abused. It is amazing how other MMOs function with things like, LFG tools and the ability to invite people without failing completely with all of the rampant abuse! Terrain gets abused in dungeons, why don't you quit over that? Here are the facts. DDO has a reincarnation system. It isn't abused. Common sense alert! If it takes 100 hours of game play to achieve X , some people will achieve X in 100 hours without sleep or bathroom breaks, and some will achieve it in 200 hours with 100 hours worth of sleep and bathroom breaks.

    Reincarnation is a way to multiply the amount of your "content" by the number of potential lives, without making any new content. If it gets a player who normally would have played for 6 months to play for 3 years...then it is a win win.
  • unirodunirod Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Dang my post was removed......dat truth though :(
  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think its a language barrier thing. They say abuse but they mean used. Theres literally no way to abuse the reincarnate system. "Ppl will just level over and over to get the bonuses!" Yeah, no s#$t, thats the point.
  • millertime197933millertime197933 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Tinukeda, they dont lose money from character slots because you are exchanging that purchase with a reincarnate "token" or whatever method they want to use. Basically they can charge zen for the ability to reincarnate each life. People will pay it far more often than they would purchase character slots(business model is already proven in DDO).

    DDO wasn't meant to have reincarnation either but they managed to put it in. They coded the bonuses as a feat. The could do the same here by adding a tab on your character sheet ( the exact same way they did with boons), and award you a point to put into a "past life feat, or power" much the same way that they do with current class powers in game. Instead of slotting the power though, it is passive(works like a racial trait). The infrastructure is there.

    Bonus points if they get fancy with it. Perhaps create a tree where depending on what paragon feats you trained (oppressor, thaumaturge, renegade for CW) you could have a different "style" of past life bonuses offered. Such as dps bonuses along the renegade path. Now this makes other paths other than the ideal min/max path used because people want that particular bonus. I mean, do you ever see a tactician guardian fighter build? You would now.
  • tinukedatinukeda Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Not saying it can't be done. And maybe they will like the idea and run with it, who knows.
    Of course, we don't know how much revenue character slots is currently generating and how that would compare to a (speculative) number of people using a new system like that. I guess you could suppose that everyone who rolls multiple toons will just roll multiple reincarnates instead (in that case, why even have more than 1 character slot?).

    Ya know, if done well and limited enough to not be totally OP, I'd support a change like this.

    There would probably be an issue with inventory space what with gear being mostly class restricted though ...
  • ameranth342ameranth342 Member Posts: 141 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Hmm, i played this game since Beta weekends, when it was fun and enjoyable, and 99% of things actually worked.
    But for now with the current state the game is in i think the game itself needs Reincarnation way before the players do

    An NO not a 'hater' , I have invested quite a considerable amount of cash into this game, have 7 lvl 60's all well geared and have completed all content without using fire running and terain glitching, i am just very sad at what as happened to the game as a whole. and as week after week goes by it is not getting any better.
  • slayorianslayorian Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Once again someone says something is gonna be abused. It is amazing how other MMOs function with things like, LFG tools and the ability to invite people without failing completely with all of the rampant abuse! Terrain gets abused in dungeons, why don't you quit over that? Here are the facts. DDO has a reincarnation system. It isn't abused. Common sense alert! If it takes 100 hours of game play to achieve X , some people will achieve X in 100 hours without sleep or bathroom breaks, and some will achieve it in 200 hours with 100 hours worth of sleep and bathroom breaks.

    Reincarnation is a way to multiply the amount of your "content" by the number of potential lives, without making any new content. If it gets a player who normally would have played for 6 months to play for 3 years...then it is a win win.

    You must not be aware of the rampant leveling bots. Until that's somehow dealt with, this would be abused to a point of absurdity.

    And yes, common sense alert. Don't ignore it.
  • millertime197933millertime197933 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Someone leveling a bot doesn't effect my game play nor yours.
  • vrtesseractvrtesseract Member Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think its a good idea, a lot of people dot want to reroll simply cause they don't want to lose their....possessions. The exception being the 1% bonuses unless you only get the 1% bonus from the 1 life previous or limited to 5% bonus.

    so just to make it as non abusable as possible youd start from 1 and simply keep physical items and non race/class specific titles and all items. but youd have no extra bonuses other than the privilege of keeping your stuff.

    it should cost about 250z the price to buy a character slot. the idea is your a woodelf TR you went and spent 100$ on pets outfits and chanceboxes. (or more) you have a lillend..blue Skeletal dog a nightmare and arenea your weaing a the jester top and Sunite head and courtesan skirt your wielding some transmogs from orc assault and have caterday survivor as the title. you maxed out all your craft skills and are at level 60.

    so one day archers come out. you could reroll but you put soo much work into misty the wood elf. and misty the moonelf archer seems like such a cool idea considering you specifically had been rping mysti as a moonelf ranger this entire time, also you have so many things on misty the woodelf you can never get again.

    so reincarnation would work like this youd keep your name and all physical posessions and titles. you' d rechoose class and race reroll stats and show up at starting location. all you professions would be back at 1 but youd have all your crafting assets and materials. essentially its a new character with the same name and titles that just inherited all misty the woodelves items. sadly you cant use the weapons but at least you still have them.

    a lot of people may restrict their impulse buying on the fear that they might lose stuff that is not replacable. like event titles/transmogs that were bop. reincarnation would let theses people who had already maxed their character start semi fresh without losing things they can never get again.

    the other option of course is to add an account bank and make limited items/titles bind on account rather than bind to character. so that misty the wood elf can send mysti the moon elf all her stuff manually and still keep her titles. this is not really giving mysti to much of an advantage other than being able to start over and visit areas she may have outleveled to quickly the first time.
  • slayorianslayorian Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Someone leveling a bot doesn't effect my game play nor yours.

    Right now leveling a bot doesn't hurt too much. But if it added 1% deflect chance or something along those lines every time they hit 60 then it would. At the very least, someone with 50+ extra everything would break pvp for anyone who doesn't do it. Additionally, everything in the game is affect by everything else at least to some degrees. This is an MMORPG, not a single player game. Content is a balanced based on character capabilities. When there are overpowered classes, combos, exploits, ect... it results in an imbalance of AD which upsets the AH and zen exchange rate. To most people, this stuff does matter.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    No to reincarnation BUT yes to initial stat re-rolls. I for example have gimped stats now, because of the last patch and had to change my entire setup, the only thing i havn't been able to change are my rolled stats + the additional stat points from my race.

    It would be great if a stat re-roll token would be sold for zen, in the cash shop.

  • inthefade462inthefade462 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Yes my primary concernis with the limited reincarnation as thats what i personally want for my tr. I'd also love to be able to dump all of the useless wisdom on my cleric though im fine with her race. Reroll stats and change race, zen token, sell em all day.

    The full reincarnate suggestion was an expansion of the lesser since if you're already going to be recoding the game may as well taken a proven system that adds longevity and end game appeal and add that while you are at it. Leveling bot paranoia is meaningless since the system is capped at 3 or 5 rerolls per class so its not like someone can bot up +50 anything. It literally has no effect on anyone and is a silly point of contention.

    Also i dont think this would have much if any impact on character slot sales. Most character slot sales are for leadership/invocation/ad salvaging alts so those would still get sold. People who like options and have 5 characters one of each class would still need 5 slots. The only people who wouldnt need to buy character slots are people who fully max out one character at a time and then roll a new alt and never play the first character again. I dont see that as a large group of players honestly.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Perhaps they could add a repeatable instance where, upon its completion, you were granted a "wish box". This box would be character-bound, and would require a number of enchanted keys to open. Upon doing so, you get to rechoose your race, class, stats, and/or gender. Each of those items would cost 1 key to unlock, (so if you just wanted to change class, it would only cost 1 key). The instance would have a 24 hour real-time cooldown as well.

    Obviously, the cost may have to be adjusted. I'm just putting ideas out there...
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  • r1der1de Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    /snipped
    What a wonderful idea, all of it... I'd love to be able to completely remake my toon while being able to keep all my stuff I've gathered up over time. :)
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