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High Vizier Uptime Question

daswoolydaswooly Member Posts: 60 Arc User
edited September 2013 in The Library
Is there a preferred way to keep a 3 stack of HV up near 100% of the time vs. a single target? Curious how others do it if they can, and is it worth it slotting more control to keep the buff up for the party?
Post edited by daswooly on
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  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Steal Time.

    Alternatively, if not in range for Steal Time, Chill Strike + Repel.
  • kerrovitarrakerrovitarra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 559 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Chill strike + repel. Thats enough. On preview Icy Rais are also stacks HV.
  • daswoolydaswooly Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Chill strike + repel. Thats enough. On preview Icy Rais are also stacks HV.
    That's interesting. I currently run Icy Rays on tab, CoI, Chill Strike, and RoE. Seems like a tough decision of which to give up in order to maintain the stacks (until Icy Rays is patched.)
  • kerrovitarrakerrovitarra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 559 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Replace RoE with Repel (if you are thau spec) - and stacks will be maintained.
  • nonsenseobservernonsenseobserver Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    When soloing Draco, i always use Chill strike on SM - Repel - Shield - RoE and Oppresive Force as Daily.
    Chill Strike and Repel both have 7 second cooldowns and Chill strike on SM automaticly adds 3 stacks. after 3.5-4 seconds i use repel to refresh it. Whenever i have Oppresive force, i use it on boss to because it adds 4 more stacks of HV (3 max stacks + 4 from Oppresive = 7 stacks of HV, if you can keep it alive through next daily 7+4=11 HV stacks then 15 then 19).[This can go higher with avalancheshard, adding 1 charge each time it passes boss which i do not prefer to use it on draco]

    Shield also adds/refreshes HV stacks and also saves you from hand dmg and i use it to refresh stacks sometimes when i missclicked or had to dodge and lost the last seconds of refresh together with casting time of the chillstrike.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I use icy terrain, it keeps the stacks up all the time, and it's a great control spell. And the (de)buff doesn't work on immune targets FYI.
  • kerrovitarrakerrovitarra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 559 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Maybe Icy Terrain is a good control power, but it has no effect on bosses and it's damage is low. Besides, it requires to be in melee range and doesn't proc defensive part of HV set. Repel on single target way too better, if your goal is maintaining HV stacks.
  • daswoolydaswooly Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Maybe Icy Terrain is a good control power, but it has no effect on bosses and it's damage is low. Besides, it requires to be in melee range and doesn't proc defensive part of HV set. Repel on single target way too better, if your goal is maintaining HV stacks.
    The problem I'm having is vague tooltips and difficulty testing things. Like how much does ray of enfeeble reduce mitigation? Is it worth having a 75% uptime of a 2 stack with ray on enfeeble slotted vs 100% uptime of 3 stacks but having repel slotted? I'm downloading the preview server in order to get a better idea of the debuffs. I wish Cryptic (lol) was a bit more transparent.
  • palmzypalmzy Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Single target?

    Ray of Enfeeblement on tab for x2 stacks
    CoI if you are Thaum spec for the debuff
    Chill Strike because it adds 2 stacks, has a short cool down, plus it's the hardest hitting single target encounter.
    Repel. Not for it's damage (which isn't bad) but for it's short cooldown. Adds one stack.

    Like Kerrov said. All you need is Chill Strike and Repel to maintain stacks.

    Start off with your chill strike and when there is 4 seconds left on it's CD, hit repel. When Chill Strike is up, hit it immediately. Repel should have 4 seconds left on it's CD. All you really need to do is make sure there is roughly 4 seconds left on each spell when you use the other. High Vizier stacks only last 6.

    It's very simple once you get it down. Should only take you a minute or two to figure out.
  • dornodiosmiosdornodiosmios Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2013
    palmzy wrote: »
    Single target?

    Ray of Enfeeblement on tab for x2 stacks
    CoI if you are Thaum spec for the debuff
    Chill Strike because it adds 2 stacks, has a short cool down, plus it's the hardest hitting single target encounter.
    Repel. Not for it's damage (which isn't bad) but for it's short cooldown. Adds one stack.

    Like Kerrov said. All you need is Chill Strike and Repel to maintain stacks.

    Start off with your chill strike and when there is 4 seconds left on it's CD, hit repel. When Chill Strike is up, hit it immediately. Repel should have 4 seconds left on it's CD. All you really need to do is make sure there is roughly 4 seconds left on each spell when you use the other. High Vizier stacks only last 6.

    It's very simple once you get it down. Should only take you a minute or two to figure out.

    Has any of this changed since the Feywild update and recent patches? Not sure if I'm doing things as effectively as I could be with my HV set. I'm using CoI on tab, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Steal Time in most situations.

    Single Target is CoI on tab, Chill Strike, icy rays, ray of enfeeblement.

    Is that sufficient for maintaining stacks of HV? Has anything even changed since the Feywild & subsequent patches?

    Thanks.
  • daswoolydaswooly Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Has any of this changed since the Feywild update and recent patches? Not sure if I'm doing things as effectively as I could be with my HV set. I'm using CoI on tab, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Steal Time in most situations.

    Single Target is CoI on tab, Chill Strike, icy rays, ray of enfeeblement.

    Is that sufficient for maintaining stacks of HV? Has anything even changed since the Feywild & subsequent patches?

    Thanks.
    The only thing that's really changed for me is that icy rays causing stacks helps your margin for error. Chill strike on mastery seems wasteful in a mastery slot in a single target fight. You could easily just use icy rays right after chill strike for the 3rd stack. I still just alternate CS and repel. CS on cooldown, repel when CS is ~4sec.
  • zekzt87zekzt87 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    EF alfo aplies stack of buff and debuff [even if the target is immune it will still aply the effects].
    I personally dont use repel its a waste of slot imho, seal time is my choice here.
    0prg.jpg
  • drsconedrscone Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I haven't quite got the full Hi Viz set yet, but I'm working on it. It would be very helpful if someone could post what the current set of powers that proc the buffs and debuffs are.

    This thread http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?339781-High-Vizier-Set-BIS-Next-Patch/page7

    seems out of date? Thanks in advance.
    Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
    Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
  • daswoolydaswooly Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    zekzt87 wrote: »
    EF alfo aplies stack of buff and debuff [even if the target is immune it will still aply the effects].
    I personally dont use repel its a waste of slot imho, seal time is my choice here.
    Repel is used for it's convenient cooldown, cycling it and chill strike is 100% uptime. 100% uptime for the entire group makes up for it's lower damage.
  • degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Chill strike + repel. Thats enough. On preview Icy Rais are also stacks HV.

    Whaaa-???!!! Yes! Yes! Yes! Finally!
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  • xmousepadxxmousepadx Member Posts: 381 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Well u can run entangle repel and chillstrike to be sure u can keep ur stack up even when u have to dodge tons of red stuff. cast 1 rotation of mm and use one of the encounters. I normaly stick to repel and entangle since the chillstrike casttime can kill u cuz u cant dodge or cancle it and hands will **** u.
    Btw an amazing encounter design when the whole game is build around dodging red stuff!
  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    palmzy wrote: »
    Single target?

    Ray of Enfeeblement on tab for x2 stacks
    CoI if you are Thaum spec for the debuff
    Chill Strike because it adds 2 stacks, has a short cool down, plus it's the hardest hitting single target encounter.
    Repel. Not for it's damage (which isn't bad) but for it's short cooldown. Adds one stack.

    Like Kerrov said. All you need is Chill Strike and Repel to maintain stacks.

    Start off with your chill strike and when there is 4 seconds left on it's CD, hit repel. When Chill Strike is up, hit it immediately. Repel should have 4 seconds left on it's CD. All you really need to do is make sure there is roughly 4 seconds left on each spell when you use the other. High Vizier stacks only last 6.

    It's very simple once you get it down. Should only take you a minute or two to figure out.

    +1 for correctness.

    HV stacks very quickly so even if stacks fall off, they are back soon. It's not the end of the world :cool:
  • noojsternoojster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    @OP

    Well, if we will be really going for instant 3 HV stacks in an instant try using Entangling Force on mob groups. You gain +1350 def.

    Although its seldom you see arcane builds with EF on tab after feywild.

    You can go with Chill Strike on tab as others have said.

    MeyvnHart
    Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
    Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
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  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    I've tested these on Live:

    repost soon - had incorrect info
  • drsconedrscone Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    That's fantastic freedumb4eva. It looks like they've increased the number of spells that proc the HV effects enormously over the last few patches. Maybe I'll finally get something other than belts next time I run Frozen Heart...
    Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
    Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I've tested these on Live:

    Storm Spell - 1 stack on the primary target of the proc.
    Chilling Cloud - 1 stack per cast. 3 stacks per full cycle. 1 stack on each additional target hit by the third strike.
    Ray of Frost - 3 stacks per tick on the primary target.
    Storm Pillar - 1 stack on each target hit by initial cast. No stacks are added by the damage over time from a full cast.
    Chill Strike - 2 stacks on the primary target.
    Chill Strike Mastery - 3 stacks on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target.
    Icy Rays Mastery - 3 stacks on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target, (requires double cast.)
    Icy Terrain - 1 stack per tick on each target.
    Ray of Enfeeblement - 1 stack on the primary target.
    Ray of Enfeeblement Mastery - 1 stack on the primary target per cast.
    Repel - 1 stack on the primary target.

    Repel Mastery - 1 stack on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target.
    Shield - 1 stack on each target affected.
    Steal Time - 1 stack per tick on each target.
    Sudden Storm - 2 stacks on each target affected.
    Arcane Singularity - No stacks.
    Ice Knife - 3 stacks on the primary target.
    Oppressive Force - 1 stack per tick on each target affected.

    Source: Here

    Almost every single line in that post is incorrect.

    The only change made to High Vizier debuffs on current live release shards, i.e. Dragon, Beholder and Mindflayer, is Icy Rays now applies ONE stack per enemy target in total.

    Even the most ignorant of CW's would realise something seriously strange is going on when either Storm Spell or Ray of Enfeeblement (which is already a debuff) could EVER be considered a "Control Power"!
  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Almost every single line in that post is incorrect.

    The only change made to High Vizier debuffs on current live release shards, i.e. Dragon, Beholder and Mindflayer, is Icy Ray now applies ONE stack per target total.

    Even the most ignorant of CW's would realise something seriously strange is going on when either Storm Spell or Ray of Enfeeblement (which is already a debuff) could EVER be considered a "Control Spell"!

    That's quite interesting since I just tested them maybe 3 hours ago on Live... Maybe I am mistaken and I will go over it again, thanks for pointing it out. I may have confused a debuff icon. I'll try it again soon and re-post.

    An ignorant CW would not realize any thing because they are ignorant, just saying.

    Edit: removed the info until I try them all again.
    drscone wrote: »
    That's fantastic freedumb4eva. It looks like they've increased the number of spells that proc the HV effects enormously over the last few patches. Maybe I'll finally get something other than belts next time I run Frozen Heart...

    Thanks mate. I may have a bit of incorrect info there, though. I'll re-post again with the proper info once I sort it out.

    Good luck on your FH runs :cool:
  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    Here is some better information.

    Encounters and dailies that I have tested on live and their interaction with the High Vizier's debuff:
    Chill Strike - 2 stacks on the primary target.
    Chill Strike Mastery - 3 stacks on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target.
    Icy Rays Mastery - 1 stack on the primary target, (requires double cast.)
    Icy Terrain - 1 stack per cast on each target.
    Repel - 1 stack on the primary target.
    Repel Mastery - 1 stack on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target.
    Shield - 1 stack on each target affected.
    Steal Time - 1 stack per tick on each target.
    Arcane Singularity - No stacks.
    Ice Knife - 3 stacks on the primary target.
    Oppressive Force - 1 stack per tick on each target affected. (Can stack more than three times. Four stacks per full cast.)

    Sorry for the confusion and as always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    Source: Here
  • zekzt87zekzt87 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Now it seems correct- it just misses the SoEA - it ads 1 stack on all targets affected by push [does not add stacks for the explosion].
    One thing worth adding [for less experienced/new CW's] - Steal Time will always add 3 stacks to target. The tics are always masive i never had a situation whre i aded less than 3 stacks with it.

    As for the buff - Entagling force ads up to 3 stacks with 3 affected targets, steal time ads 1 stack, shiled ads 3 stacks for 3 affected targets, repel ads 3 stacks for 3 affected targets.

    I have yet to check the Ice Knife since i didnt checked it [never really cared much about the fact it ads the HV buff/debuff.. thou im preatty sure it didnt stacked debuff thou, same goes for opressing force]
    0prg.jpg
  • degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Here is some better information.

    Encounters and dailies that I have tested on live and their interaction with the High Vizier's debuff:
    Chill Strike - 2 stacks on the primary target.
    Chill Strike Mastery - 3 stacks on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target.
    Icy Rays Mastery - 1 stack on the primary target, (requires double cast.)
    Icy Terrain - 1 stack per cast on each target.
    Repel - 1 stack on the primary target.
    Repel Mastery - 1 stack on the primary target and 1 stack on each additional target.
    Shield - 1 stack on each target affected.
    Steal Time - 1 stack per tick on each target.
    Arcane Singularity - No stacks.
    Ice Knife - 3 stacks on the primary target.
    Oppressive Force - 1 stack per tick on each target affected. (Can stack more than three times. Four stacks per full cast.)

    Sorry for the confusion and as always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    Source: Here

    Entangling Force?
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  • verilosverilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 77
    edited August 2013
    When soloing Draco, i always use Chill strike on SM - Repel - Shield - RoE and Oppresive Force as Daily.
    Chill Strike and Repel both have 7 second cooldowns and Chill strike on SM automaticly adds 3 stacks. after 3.5-4 seconds i use repel to refresh it. Whenever i have Oppresive force, i use it on boss to because it adds 4 more stacks of HV (3 max stacks + 4 from Oppresive = 7 stacks of HV, if you can keep it alive through next daily 7+4=11 HV stacks then 15 then 19).[This can go higher with avalancheshard, adding 1 charge each time it passes boss which i do not prefer to use it on draco]

    Shield also adds/refreshes HV stacks and also saves you from hand dmg and i use it to refresh stacks sometimes when i missclicked or had to dodge and lost the last seconds of refresh together with casting time of the chillstrike.


    You shouldn't say that on the forums, the lazy devs may stumble on it and decide it needs patching. 3x High Vizier with OF make draco fight laughable.
  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    verilos wrote: »
    You shouldn't say that on the forums, the lazy devs may stumble on it and decide it needs patching. 3x High Vizier with OF make draco fight laughable.

    TBH it does need patching... 3 stacks from every Wizard is plenty.
  • dornodiosmiosdornodiosmios Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2013
    Thanks a ton for all the replies. This info really helps a lot to have it all consolidated into one place and updated for the new patch!
  • kwikus1kwikus1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I wonderring if in this spec & items Vorapl really works. HV doesnt have crit like SW. So counting on EoTS is really that effective with Vorpal ench?
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    kwikus1 wrote: »
    I wonderring if in this spec & items Vorapl really works. HV doesnt have crit like SW. So counting on EoTS is really that effective with Vorpal ench?

    The difference in crit chance between someone in HV set and another in SW is 2-3% at best. And the less crit you have, the more effective EoTS is.
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