You want to kill some1 with Healer? Seriously? No offense guys, but Healer is a Healer not a killer. So I'm OK with this.
Hey, someone took your advice! Maybe we ARE Leaders after all!
Heh, but really. If we were healers and we could heal ourselves or even others better than potions, maybe. If we didn't have to attack things in order to generate our class resource to get our best heals, maybe.
... But I still don't think any of them are game breaking by any means. It seems more and more I am running into near unkillable clerics in PvP, and in the last oh I dunno...30 or so T2's/CN runs I haven't heard one single complaint from the DC's in my group.
I stopped paying attention to the cleric forums a long time ago for obvious reasons, but I'm sorry I just don't see any of these changes as game breaking...even in the slightest.[/QUOTE]
Ofc those nerfs are not gamebreaking... they are just extremly p****ing off. You still can play, why not, only why nerfing the class that already has it harder than any other? We had it harder from the beginning, and we still get nerfed with every patch? This is simply unfair. Really, some foundry authors make special difficulty, just for clerics. That really hurt. And all those guys that think we are for healing only and dont need to do damage at all...
Wait a support class can't kill anyone unless they are already weakened.
The horror.
/sarcasm off.
Well most of us figured since it CANNOT HEAL or SUPPORT PROPERLY! we thought it was a damage dealing class! seeing EVERYCLASS! can OUTDPS its HEALING IN SECONDS!
That's the most <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> thing i ever read on an MMO forums for a while.
They are adjusting clerics to be pure tank/healing characters. That's why your "bursty" daily is getting nerfed to make the cleric focus on the tank/healing gamestyle.
Clerics are support class where they stand in the middle of a fight casting astral shield and throwing healing wards left and right, making their allies more durable. If you prefer going 1 vs 1 and killing people left and right then cleric isn't the class for you.
You are supposed to be a tanky healer, not a bursty super man.
where is our tanky super surviability or half-decent healing then? oh wait we have none! anyone with basic level 60 gear can kill a cleric in the best gear!
anyone with basic level 60 gear can kill a cleric in the best gear!
I support all of you when it comes to the DC.
But this statement is beyond ridiculous. Its obvious you have NEVER pvp'd with anyone of any skill, or you yourself have gone full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when it comes to PvP to make such an ignorant statement like this.
Instead of wasting your time on the forums. I suggest you go play your DC. You "might" learn something =/
But this statement is beyond ridiculous. Its obvious you have NEVER pvp'd with anyone of any skill, or you yourself have gone full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when it comes to PvP to make such an ignorant statement like this.
Instead of wasting your time on the forums. I suggest you go play your DC. You "might" learn something =/
So tell us, oh the mighty forum warrior, what DCs gear is so ridiculously OP that gives such astonishing survivability advantage? And yes, only gear, please. Not gear and skill.
So tell us, oh the mighty forum warrior, what DCs gear is so ridiculously OP that gives such astonishing survivability advantage? And yes, only gear, please. Not gear and skill.
Do you even know what you are trying to argue about?
Silly fanboi said "any" new character with 40kad purchased gear can kill "any" DC with BiS gear. If you actually believe that, and are sticking up for this ridiculous statement then yah brosef....Quit playing your DC..its not for you
Do you even know what you are trying to argue about?
Silly fanboi said "any" new character with 40kad purchased gear can kill "any" DC with BiS gear. If you actually believe that, and are sticking up for this ridiculous statement then yah brosef....Quit playing your DC..its not for you
You are including skill there and likely a premade team. With all the CC, prones etc clerics often don't get a spell off or maybe only one before they get chain CC/prone etc to death.
You are including skill there and likely a premade team. With all the CC, prones etc clerics often don't get a spell off or maybe only one before they get chain CC/prone etc to death.
Not sure what to tell you then if its really that bad for "you". I run into a new cleric almost daily on Mindflayer that is amazing in PvP, and clutch for his/my team.
Do you even know what you are trying to argue about?
Silly fanboi said "any" new character with 40kad purchased gear can kill "any" DC with BiS gear. If you actually believe that, and are sticking up for this ridiculous statement then yah brosef....Quit playing your DC..its not for you
He said "basic", and this is a broad word, which may or may not include any basic T2/T1 stuff, for example. Let me put it in more simple words: you're implying that there is a set of a gear that gives a DC an incredible advantage against other classes in PvP. So I want you to enlighten us about it, since you're self-proclaimed pro and everything. Because if you don't know the answer, it'll seem that you're pulling this argument out of the thin air and simply want to manifest your huge ego once again.
Not sure what to tell you then if its really that bad for "you". I run into a new cleric almost daily on Mindflayer that is amazing in PvP, and clutch for his/my team.
so premade then I guess, Try running in pugs (if they don't instantly kick you because of your class). Only time I have seen a cleric get into a pug and be able to stay is when they have lead.
What are you talking about ?
You cannot kick in PVP, whether you have the lead or not.
If you see a cleric vanishing at the very beginning it's most likely because he left by his own after inspecting his team.
Who would like to heal people with 8k GS anyway ?
I rarely see anyone leaving because I am on their side.
I often see people leaving when we are 2 clerics.
I often see people leaving when we have 2 people under 8k GS.
I always quit when we are 2 clerics.
I always quit if there are 2 people under 8k GS.
Very geared or not, a cleric is kind of useless if its team is poorly geared because this overnerfed class cannot do anything on its own when it comes to PVP and certainly not carry it like geared GWFs/TRs can do thanks to their ability to control nodes (3-4 people to kill GWF, stealth rogue).
[QUOTE=uri92;Very geared or not, a cleric is kind of useless if its team is poorly geared because this overnerfed class cannot do anything on its own when it comes to PVP and certainly not carry it like geared GWFs/TRs can do thanks to their ability to control nodes (3-4 people to kill GWF, stealth rogue).[/QUOTE]
And if the team is good geared and decently skilled, DC is... useless again, they'd be better off with some dps or a tank.
What are you talking about ?
You cannot kick in PVP, whether you have the lead or not.
If you see a cleric vanishing at the very beginning it's most likely because he left by his own after inspecting his team.
Who would like to heal people with 8k GS anyway ?
Then explain to me how I got kicked while loading into a match and arrived only to be told I was no longer in the party? Only times this did not occur is when I or another cleric had lead. When you accept the queue and load in to find yourself being told you are no longer in the party, that's a good sign you got kicked.
Then explain to me how I got kicked while loading into a match and arrived only to be told I was no longer in the party? Only times this did not occur is when I or another cleric had lead. When you accept the queue and load in to find yourself being told you are no longer in the party, that's a good sign you got kicked.
I've experienced a bug like this on both my CW and on my DC. In guild premades lol.
zoushozahnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
From a support Clerc's point of view:
I'd like to echo many of the sentiments in this thread. In PVP I have always felt completely helpless, but I've tried to make the best of it despite the changes to the DC over several patches.
The hammer nerf made no sense - it's effectively about on par with Guardian of Faith now in terms of usefulness - basically a waste of a slot. Sure, pre-patch hammer did a lot of damage, but it was dodgable damage. It wasn't the almost auto-win button that TRs currently have with shocking execution by any stretch (which is blockable, but I do not believe it is dodgable - please correct me if I'm wrong).
With pre-prepatch sunburst and hammer I could at least live long enough against generate AP against a target to damage them, and it was fun to wait for the right moment to unleash it in competitive premade games.
Come on Cryptic! Give the DC some love! If you want us to be pure support, that's ok in my book - just stop nerfing our existing heals and give us some different daily options that promote healing.
I stopped leveling entirely and stopped logging in. The whole point of getting into this game was because they supposedly understood the power of clerics, their nerfs say otherwise.
Also since there's no immediate future for a ranger in sight I might come back and check it out later. Right now this game is on the shelf for me because of these two simple to fix things.
Repair the DC, add more classes, that should be all you're focused on if you want me back,
I like to think of it as we are getting a HUGE bonus to healing others.... rather than a penalty.
what they should do is make it a feat you get a 20% bonus to healing others but a 20% nerf to self heals. most pve/group clerics would take it and pvp clerics would pass and grab something else.
I like to think of it as we are getting a HUGE bonus to healing others.... rather than a penalty.
what they should do is make it a feat you get a 20% bonus to healing others but a 20% nerf to self heals. most pve/group clerics would take it and pvp clerics would pass and grab something else.
That would be great, but not going to happen. Nerever. More probably version (concluding from feats already avilable for clerics) would be 1/1,5/2% healing others -1/-1,5/-2% self heal.
And seriuosly, I dont think any improvement to our heal would ever happen, looking at direction the changes (nerfs) are going, they want us rather to buff/debuff - which would not be bad if they'd give us some better tools to do so and didnt try to force us doing solo content in a team (some feat/skill improving our personal defence maybe, and another giving cc resist would do)
I like to think of it as we are getting a HUGE bonus to healing others.... rather than a penalty.
what they should do is make it a feat you get a 20% bonus to healing others but a 20% nerf to self heals. most pve/group clerics would take it and pvp clerics would pass and grab something else.
We currently have a 66% bonus to healing others.
But actually, this is more than just Righteousness. The healing amounts for tooltip would have to be changed to the current Righteousness values. They would be so small that people would probably complain more than they already do -- there are already tons of complains about us not having any kind of "big" heal. We're just able to do healing over-time in small chunks, very small chunks, and very very small chunks.
People sometimes talk about health stones and resurrection scrolls as the motivation here, but I have never seen a single person use this or even own one. None of the rewards or content in the game really worth using this kind of stuff on, and I doubt the slight advantage it gives you would make a difference.
Really? The best heal used in dungeons is Astral Shield, and even this one would be not worth much if not for defence bonus. FF could add a bit extra healing, when it worked correctly, but still no fireworks here. BoH... dont make me laugh... and there is HW, that I use all the time - on myself in 99% cases, because a) I need it b)good luck targeting your team mates in dungeons where they are kiting all around or you cant see them behind all those mobs, c) it has cooldown too d)it would be better in divine mod but I need divine energy for AS.
The reason most people don't tend to use health stones is cos they are so **** expensive...1500 zen for 1 stone If they want to increase sales of them they need to cut them down to more like 500 zen each.
Well the fact is that we are the class with the worst survavibility (1 vs mobs) however all teammates rely on us. We can't even heal them properly to survive (i think of rogues without stealth and cw). It explain why we need 3 cw for CN for exemple and so why some classes are no more played...
I still don't understand why a daily like HoF does less damage than daunting light (if i'm right coz i use to play it in french)...
Well, they coul even give us some respecialisation...
Comments
Hey, someone took your advice! Maybe we ARE Leaders after all!
Heh, but really. If we were healers and we could heal ourselves or even others better than potions, maybe. If we didn't have to attack things in order to generate our class resource to get our best heals, maybe.
... But I still don't think any of them are game breaking by any means. It seems more and more I am running into near unkillable clerics in PvP, and in the last oh I dunno...30 or so T2's/CN runs I haven't heard one single complaint from the DC's in my group.
I stopped paying attention to the cleric forums a long time ago for obvious reasons, but I'm sorry I just don't see any of these changes as game breaking...even in the slightest.[/QUOTE]
Ofc those nerfs are not gamebreaking... they are just extremly p****ing off. You still can play, why not, only why nerfing the class that already has it harder than any other? We had it harder from the beginning, and we still get nerfed with every patch? This is simply unfair. Really, some foundry authors make special difficulty, just for clerics. That really hurt. And all those guys that think we are for healing only and dont need to do damage at all...
They are game breaking for any cleric which don't play in a premade with an average GS of 12+ K. Premades don't need to be healed anyway.
Well most of us figured since it CANNOT HEAL or SUPPORT PROPERLY! we thought it was a damage dealing class! seeing EVERYCLASS! can OUTDPS its HEALING IN SECONDS!
where is our tanky super surviability or half-decent healing then? oh wait we have none! anyone with basic level 60 gear can kill a cleric in the best gear!
I support all of you when it comes to the DC.
But this statement is beyond ridiculous. Its obvious you have NEVER pvp'd with anyone of any skill, or you yourself have gone full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when it comes to PvP to make such an ignorant statement like this.
Instead of wasting your time on the forums. I suggest you go play your DC. You "might" learn something =/
So tell us, oh the mighty forum warrior, what DCs gear is so ridiculously OP that gives such astonishing survivability advantage? And yes, only gear, please. Not gear and skill.
Do you even know what you are trying to argue about?
Silly fanboi said "any" new character with 40kad purchased gear can kill "any" DC with BiS gear. If you actually believe that, and are sticking up for this ridiculous statement then yah brosef....Quit playing your DC..its not for you
You are including skill there and likely a premade team. With all the CC, prones etc clerics often don't get a spell off or maybe only one before they get chain CC/prone etc to death.
Not sure what to tell you then if its really that bad for "you". I run into a new cleric almost daily on Mindflayer that is amazing in PvP, and clutch for his/my team.
He said "basic", and this is a broad word, which may or may not include any basic T2/T1 stuff, for example. Let me put it in more simple words: you're implying that there is a set of a gear that gives a DC an incredible advantage against other classes in PvP. So I want you to enlighten us about it, since you're self-proclaimed pro and everything. Because if you don't know the answer, it'll seem that you're pulling this argument out of the thin air and simply want to manifest your huge ego once again.
so premade then I guess, Try running in pugs (if they don't instantly kick you because of your class). Only time I have seen a cleric get into a pug and be able to stay is when they have lead.
You cannot kick in PVP, whether you have the lead or not.
If you see a cleric vanishing at the very beginning it's most likely because he left by his own after inspecting his team.
Who would like to heal people with 8k GS anyway ?
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
True. You do get people quitting, though: "OMG cleric lol gg" *quits*
I often see people leaving when we are 2 clerics.
I often see people leaving when we have 2 people under 8k GS.
I always quit when we are 2 clerics.
I always quit if there are 2 people under 8k GS.
Very geared or not, a cleric is kind of useless if its team is poorly geared because this overnerfed class cannot do anything on its own when it comes to PVP and certainly not carry it like geared GWFs/TRs can do thanks to their ability to control nodes (3-4 people to kill GWF, stealth rogue).
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
And if the team is good geared and decently skilled, DC is... useless again, they'd be better off with some dps or a tank.
Then explain to me how I got kicked while loading into a match and arrived only to be told I was no longer in the party? Only times this did not occur is when I or another cleric had lead. When you accept the queue and load in to find yourself being told you are no longer in the party, that's a good sign you got kicked.
I've experienced a bug like this on both my CW and on my DC. In guild premades lol.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
I'd like to echo many of the sentiments in this thread. In PVP I have always felt completely helpless, but I've tried to make the best of it despite the changes to the DC over several patches.
The hammer nerf made no sense - it's effectively about on par with Guardian of Faith now in terms of usefulness - basically a waste of a slot. Sure, pre-patch hammer did a lot of damage, but it was dodgable damage. It wasn't the almost auto-win button that TRs currently have with shocking execution by any stretch (which is blockable, but I do not believe it is dodgable - please correct me if I'm wrong).
With pre-prepatch sunburst and hammer I could at least live long enough against generate AP against a target to damage them, and it was fun to wait for the right moment to unleash it in competitive premade games.
Come on Cryptic! Give the DC some love! If you want us to be pure support, that's ok in my book - just stop nerfing our existing heals and give us some different daily options that promote healing.
Also since there's no immediate future for a ranger in sight I might come back and check it out later. Right now this game is on the shelf for me because of these two simple to fix things.
Repair the DC, add more classes, that should be all you're focused on if you want me back,
Exactly! This lack of classes is hurting right now.
what they should do is make it a feat you get a 20% bonus to healing others but a 20% nerf to self heals. most pve/group clerics would take it and pvp clerics would pass and grab something else.
That would be great, but not going to happen. Nerever. More probably version (concluding from feats already avilable for clerics) would be 1/1,5/2% healing others -1/-1,5/-2% self heal.
And seriuosly, I dont think any improvement to our heal would ever happen, looking at direction the changes (nerfs) are going, they want us rather to buff/debuff - which would not be bad if they'd give us some better tools to do so and didnt try to force us doing solo content in a team (some feat/skill improving our personal defence maybe, and another giving cc resist would do)
We currently have a 66% bonus to healing others.
But actually, this is more than just Righteousness. The healing amounts for tooltip would have to be changed to the current Righteousness values. They would be so small that people would probably complain more than they already do -- there are already tons of complains about us not having any kind of "big" heal. We're just able to do healing over-time in small chunks, very small chunks, and very very small chunks.
People sometimes talk about health stones and resurrection scrolls as the motivation here, but I have never seen a single person use this or even own one. None of the rewards or content in the game really worth using this kind of stuff on, and I doubt the slight advantage it gives you would make a difference.
I still don't understand why a daily like HoF does less damage than daunting light (if i'm right coz i use to play it in french)...
Well, they coul even give us some respecialisation...
At this moment, it is our most powerfull skill, since Flame Strike cannot crit.