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Devs Re: Hammer of Fate nerf
abell39
Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
All of us DCs have been talking over this nerf in our class forum, which is probably why no one has noticed or cared (unlike the TR stuff which ends up in here instead of in the class forum). I've been hoping for a rollback on the DC nerfs as happened for the TRs, but since we've gotten no response from anyone on this (unlike the TRs), I would like to point something out to you all from the recent "balance" update.
Credit to whistlingdixie, another DC player, for bringing this up.
Sooo...when DCs have a Daily that's supposed to be a killing blow, the damage gets nerfed to a point where you can't even reliably get a killing blow on it. When TRs have an at-will that's supposed to be a killing blow, its damage gets a significant buff. Don't pull out the "DCs have an advantage because of range" argument -- it is not valid because TRs have the advantage of stealth. See whistlingdixie's bold text for an explanation of how DCs use HoF in PvP; I do not play PvP personally (which makes this nerf even harder to stomach), but HoF is often the only way I can take out / weaken big bads out of a mob to survive a fight.
Many of us play solo, certainly many of us do not spec to be healbots for everybody else, and DCs are already suffering for damage, so why do you nerf our one single-target hard-hitting Daily, on the argument that it's too overpowered, so that now it deals less damage than some of our AoE encounter powers?
Explain to me in what universe this is fair.
Credit to whistlingdixie, another DC player, for bringing this up.
whistlingdixie wrote:Devoted Cleric
Hammer of Fate: This power dealt far too much damage overall, so it's gained a new feature and had its damage reduced.
If the power deals a killing blow, the player will now regain 15% of maximum AP (at max rank). However, the power's overall damage has been reduced by 40%.
Trickster Rogue
Gloaming Cut: This power works best as an execute, but lacked the damage to fill that role. To help it better serve its function, it now deals up to 30% more damage (at max rank) based on the target's missing health. In addition, rank 3 of the power now provides more Stealth on kill, and rank 1 provides slightly less.
I think the big problem people didn't understand about HoF is that to do one-shot damage, you needed to debuff the enemy, buff yourself, crit three times in a row, and hit an enemy who fails to dodge/block. If you one-shot (actually three-shot) someone with it, you had to set it up very well and be very lucky. It was not a normal occurrence, but it was one of the only ways a DC could defeat another player in PvP. Now that's more or less going to be impossible.
Sooo...when DCs have a Daily that's supposed to be a killing blow, the damage gets nerfed to a point where you can't even reliably get a killing blow on it. When TRs have an at-will that's supposed to be a killing blow, its damage gets a significant buff. Don't pull out the "DCs have an advantage because of range" argument -- it is not valid because TRs have the advantage of stealth. See whistlingdixie's bold text for an explanation of how DCs use HoF in PvP; I do not play PvP personally (which makes this nerf even harder to stomach), but HoF is often the only way I can take out / weaken big bads out of a mob to survive a fight.
Many of us play solo, certainly many of us do not spec to be healbots for everybody else, and DCs are already suffering for damage, so why do you nerf our one single-target hard-hitting Daily, on the argument that it's too overpowered, so that now it deals less damage than some of our AoE encounter powers?
Explain to me in what universe this is fair.
Kerensa Loreweaver, level 60 DC | Rilla Turtledove, level 60 CW | Calvin Meriwether, level 60 TR
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Post edited by abell39 on
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Heck, I'm cool with everything else in this patch. I just have a problem with nerfing a 50-point Daily to a point where it's useless in the name of pleasing PvPers and/or forcing every DC to play as a strict healbot. Being a healbot makes no sense when you run everything solo but dungeons and skirmishes. Every other class does just fine soloing the storyline quests and environments, so why make it even harder on DCs?
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
the ap gain nerf with sunburst is ALREADY a ****ing huge nerf to HoF, so now its just utter trash, cant use it anymore
GET YOUR **** TOGETHER CRYPTIC AND PLEASE OTHER DCS CRY WITH ME SO THEY MAYBE HEAR US
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
No sweeping generalisations here, obviously.
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Indeed, vocal, and way too vocal. But really, what can we possibly do about these stupid nerfs, there are so few DCs in this game, since class is ... underwhelming, to say the least, even if promising (and surely, a talented player can make a successful cleric character, but you don't need to be particularly talented to be a competent rogue). The only thing I can think of to catch devs' attention is to actually organize a strike and stop using queues or picking groups for a day, but it's not realistic at all, since a really significant amount of willing participants is needed to successfully sabotage all group activities.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
When I would have been able to cast 3 Hammer of Fate before the nerf, I am now only able to cast it one time. And the damage is likely halved. So HoF is kinda <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.
Why the hell did they nerf both AP gain and Daily damage ?
Our Flame Strike deals the same damage and is an AoE, plus you cannot dodge between the hits. Then what is the point of HoF ? None.
The addition of that Execution effect (+15% AP) is a bad joke and a provocation because we can't kill anything with it anymore. And certainly not nobrain classes with high def like GWF and GF who takes no damage at all because they block "control effects" and HoF is classified as a control power (rofl), and if they do take damage then you don't even notice it on their HP bar because it's ridiculously low. Plus it's very easy to dodge HoF.
Basically this power was only good for killing **** players with **** gear, and now it has become useless.
I mean I have 5900 power and I hit the dummy for 3x 3000, and the dummy has no defense. Epic damage for end gear isn't it ? My rogue with average gear deals much more with only 3000 power... Funny.
The nerf on AP gain is understandable, not the nerf on Hammer of Fate.
The addition of both ruined that power which now is even less effective than an encounter AoE and a daily AoE.
That nerf must be rollbacked or toned down, cleric was already the worst class in PVP and people will all agree to that statement.
And thank you for not nerfing OP nobrain builds like the perma-stealth one. Much appreciated.
Epic fail. I mean Cryptic fail.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Then again, if they're as OP as they look next to DCs, they probably wouldn't notice.
(Yeah, I realized it sounds like I'm sniping at other classes. I'm really not -- I play a CW, a TR, and a GF in addition to my DC main, and I've played with awesome people of each class. I'm cool with the other classes. My problem is the inequity on the devs' side in terms of the amount of attention they're giving to each class and the nerfing they did for an already-weak class, not with the people who play the other classes or the classes themselves. I wouldn't main a DC if I didn't love the class as it was before the ostensible balance update.)
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
As far as the healing stone comment, we actually heal more now than ever. Whether or not the mechanics are really intended is the question.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
And on the opposing side, they are ALWAYS my first target. I am relentless on them, and will take one for the team to push them off the node, even if it means my death.
Now, if you get TWO DC's on a team, forget about it. That is an intimidating fight.
That is not a spec, that's a 5-7k GS blue gear outfit with top regen/def/deflect stats ignoring everything else, ending up as a punching bag. Crappy recovery, crappy damage, drappy crits... but hey, at least you're not a free kill anymore.
I want this class in NW.
A GF or GWF will not only tank them but also **** them.
With higher GS opponents, you can tank melees 1-on-1 with Forgeflame but as soon as 2 players are controlling you, you have high chances of dying.
Cleric is the worst class in pvp, that is a fact.
Cleric did not deserve a nerf, though the fix on AP gain is legitimate.
Now they could rename the spell Hammer of Fail.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Clerics in D&D are used to be even more powerfull then wizards at high level and the back bones of a group. And backbone doesn't mean they are supposed to be an medium sized heal pot with slightly reduced cooldown ...
With full T2 miracle healer, a gear score of 11K + Stone I finally feal at the same level as my TR in T1/PvP-T1 with 9K GS and the free cleric companion.
I agree, clerics just get stomped all over in PvP because of bad defence and in PvE because people blame the cleric all the time and that self heal debuff. I love this class, I have 3 clerics but all but my controller dps spec ones are on hold until this class gets some buffs. Only reason I'm still playing my controller dps cleric is because I can still solo and do damage on her thanks to some broken feats and class features now working as well as her 4-set bonus actually working as well. But this hammer of fate daily is now weaker then some AoE encounter powers not to mention weaker then our AoE damage dealing daily.
ftfy
/lame10charruleofthisforumsucksbtw
Thus, with less Clerics playing PVP, there is less of an uproar over a change like this that is unjustified and needs reverted.
TRs are arguably one of the most played classes in PVP. So, when a TR nerf happens, you can bet there is going to be a large forum voice about it.
As well, in my opinion, PVPers tend to read forums more than your average player. They are after the best build to be the most successful in PVP, so they visit forums. Most played class in PVP, forum readers, large forum outcry about nerfs.
Makes sense to me. Good luck Clerics getting any help. When I posted this reply, this thread was almost on page 2 already.
Nobody cares.
Implying every TR is a good player, yeah. Every time I see some "pro-hardcore" posting something like this, I chuckle a little. How delusional one must be to believe that being carried by the class makes you "good" and everyone else around you - "bad"? I guess it takes a lot of skill to pick TR from the create-a-character screen.
We will bump it until any community manager read it and reply.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
This. As far as I know, the other classes that got the biggest nerfs (TR and GWF) at least got a response explaining the reasoning behind their nerfs. We got a response on Astral Shield quite a while back. We would like nothing less than a response on this.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Well if you say it it must be true, right?
Who is your TR that kills everyone and never dies?
I now have to skate all day to take down a mob solo. I was in a party with a TR played by a friend and now I wonder why I even bother to play a DC. He did not even need my healing as he was practically taking down enemies as fast as I could target them with Astral Seal. A couple clicks and the TR takes the boss enemy down... I, on the other hand, spent my time skating/kiting and dodging a single minion that agro'd on me. This repeatably happened over and over with mobs. I guess overall he used a few less healing pots, but I think I was more of hindrance/liability to him (coming to rescue me from things like a pair of Redcap Giantsoul (sp?) in the new Shandyland that regenerated faster than I could damage them as I was running out of their red zones all the time).
It certainly opened my eyes to the fact that my DC is a waste of pixels. The time it takes me to kill a mob is astronomical compared to a TR. Why do I have to spend 3 times as long to earn the XP for a level as compared to other classes? It is not like I get XP for healing myself in my hour long battles with end bosses.
On another note, I sure like the events (like the Valindra event) were loot is dropped based on your kills. Great for a DC as my DPS was not even close to other classes - made it as much fun as I had in PVP.
DC's are basically relegated to a support role. Come visit me I can craft anything, but don't expect me to pull my weight in a party or PVP.
I knew something was up with the DC class when my then-new CW was three-shotting minions and stomping battletested orcs with little trouble in the Tower District, whereas I had to stalk other people as my DC just to get through the zone's quests without dying more than the three times I already had from too much aggro and not being able to take down enemies. That was in open beta; they were already weak then, and this update just makes their damage-dealing even worse. I don't expect to top the dps charts, but I do expect to deal enough damage to survive without blowing through stacks of 20 potions of greater healing just for main-area questing -- not even touching dungeons / skirmishes.
I had to wait for 50 points for HoF, just to have it be rendered inferior to everything else I have that was barely enough to keep my class viable to begin with? Really?
(Perspective check on potions I mention: My level 39 CW has never bought a potion. She has over 100 unbound healing potions, and a couple dozen more bound. My DC is always out of potions despite having the ability to heal. What is this I do not even.)
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR