my 2 cents are:
first of all fix professions because they are utterly useless now
second, bind on pickup from the DD box? ARE YOU SERIOUS? the implications of this are just insanely huge! if i cant sell that one item i get every DD, then how do i make money? or what use is that item if i already have all the items i want equipped???
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kantazo1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Also by bounding those items it kills the guilds as well, many guilds use these rewards to keep in the bank so new players reaching level 60 could gear up, now what is the point of doing the run if you already have the items?
this change has nothing to do with the game economy and everything to do with the Zen demand
decrease the nr of drops in the game automatically inflating prices and making them prohibitive to the normal average player, forcing them to buy zen to "gear out" his/her char. also making ppl stop doing dungeons and effectively killing end game content , perhaps the current problem is not the drop system... but the broken dungeon system the game has, Harder = more Adds... take the adds away from the boss fights all the dungeons would have 100% clear rate, so that by itself would not be the solution
redoing the boss mechanics ( making them actually hard to kill ) and reducing the amount of adds by about 75% would solve the issue ........the fights would be more demanding and less about the adds ( its a BOSS fight )
also i don't see the problem with the in game drop items being affordable by a standard player ..... unless u want to make 2M ad from the drops just to see that u still cant afford anything because the prices went up , and 2M is now equivalent to 100k ( the difference is u can actually make 100K from rough astral diamonds )
but by all means make stuff BOP and slowly kill your player base
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hackbeardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited August 2013
I am fine with these changes, but a small question I have that cannot get a good answer on - why do Rough Astral Diamonds exist? Salvaging level 60 gear gives us Rough AD. They convert to AD at a 100% rate, so really you're just creating an extra button click for seemingly no good reason. Is there any purpose to this, or just another currency for PW to give us?
We can't know for sure until the particulars become known. The patch may be available on the Preview Shard, but since there aren't a lot of players on the Preview Shard, we can't possibly begin to evaluate the drop rates and so on.
So yeah, to an extent it is just a matter of opinion at this point. What I can tell you from personal experience is that nearly all of the so-called "filler" items that drop in most T2 chests right now sell for almost nothing on the Beholder Server. We're talking 2-4k, something like that. If the Salvager offers considerably more than that (let's say 10k or so), then this patch will be a buff to the rank-and-file player's ability to earn AD.
The most valuable items I tend to pick up are Vorpal/Soulforged/Lightning shards, and I have no reason to believe that those will become BoP.
The flipside, if I'm right about all of the above, is that prices on the AH will go waaaay up. So casuals will have a harder time exchanging the drops they don't want for the drops they do want.
But the filler stuff can go 2k-6k AD(there are certain fillers u can sell for more tho as well),the salvage will give u rough AD lol.
u can have 10 milion rough it wont matter,u can only refine 24k per day (i think ,or did they increase it?)
I agree is just opinions so far since u cant test it,but it kinda obvious they kinda trying to push ppl buying zen ;/
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jadetoraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 116Bounty Hunter
But the filler stuff can go 2k-6k AD(there are certain fillers u can sell for more tho as well),the salvage will give u rough AD lol.
u can have 10 milion rough it wont matter,u can only refine 24k per day (i think ,or did they increase it?)
I agree is just opinions so far since u cant test it,but it kinda obvious they kinda trying to push ppl buying zen ;/
Right, that's why it's a buff to the earning power of casual players: those players probably aren't going to run enough dungeons to hit the rough-AD refining cap on a regular basis. More hardcore players, of course, will be screwed on their DD items. They'll have less incentive to run DDs, but the non-DD drops they pick up will become more valuable.
I checked the Salvager on the Preview Shard, by the way, and I was getting prices of 3k-10k for T1-T2 stuff. Not much better than market value, on average, but somewhat better than average market value in my experience.
Right, that's why it's a buff to the earning power of casual players: those players probably aren't going to run enough dungeons to hit the rough-AD refining cap on a regular basis. More hardcore players, of course, will be screwed on their DD items. They'll have less incentive to run DDs, but the non-DD drops they pick up will become more valuable.
I checked the Salvager on the Preview Shard, by the way, and I was getting prices of 3k-10k for T1-T2 stuff. Not much better than market value, on average, but somewhat better than average market value in my experience.
YMMV.
I don't even see the salvage vendor after the patch went in, am I missing something?
I am fine with these changes, but a small question I have that cannot get a good answer on - why do Rough Astral Diamonds exist? Salvaging level 60 gear gives us Rough AD. They convert to AD at a 100% rate, so really you're just creating an extra button click for seemingly no good reason. Is there any purpose to this, or just another currency for PW to give us?
They do convert at 100% but you can only convert 24,000 per day. This is their way of controlling your AD gains from running repeatable quests and leadership tasks. The new BoP patch will just add more rough AD to players who are already reaching the refining cap. They exist in the game to keep the illusion alive that you do not have to pay to play. This was true until now. Technically it is still true. You do not have to pay a dime to play this game but they just removed one of the best sources of AD income from the game so you will gain AD at a much slower rate. You will still be able to make money from selling enchants, but it takes a ton of collecting to make a high rank enchant and coalescent ward to make armor/weapon enchant.
It also appears they removed coalescent wards and preservation wards from the new lockboxes (I may be wrong, but they are not listed as a possible drop from the coffers the lockboxes drop) which will make enchants even more inaccessible to those who do not buy Zen. You will either Pray or Pay to get them.
I see the Nightmare Keys are on sale, question I have is will any "Keys" bought now and sitting in my bank storage stay after the new phase/update coming in 6 days and open any new boxes that will start to drop at that time? Or will new Key type come out replacing the old nightmare keys making them useless? Thanks in advance!
They do convert at 100% but you can only convert 24,000 per day. This is their way of controlling your AD gains from running repeatable quests and leadership tasks. The new BoP patch will just add more rough AD to players who are already reaching the refining cap. They exist in the game to keep the illusion alive that you do not have to pay to play. This was true until now. Technically it is still true. You do not have to pay a dime to play this game but they just removed one of the best sources of AD income from the game so you will gain AD at a much slower rate. You will still be able to make money from selling enchants, but it takes a ton of collecting to make a high rank enchant and coalescent ward to make armor/weapon enchant.
It also appears they removed coalescent wards and preservation wards from the new lockboxes (I may be wrong, but they are not listed as a possible drop from the coffers the lockboxes drop) which will make enchants even more inaccessible to those who do not buy Zen. You will either Pray or Pay to get them.
This will just boost up the people who bot and farm for enchants...and now we are going to see the market flooded with stacks of 99 rank 4 and 5...GG Cryptic..you just made the problem worse....
Right, that's why it's a buff to the earning power of casual players: those players probably aren't going to run enough dungeons to hit the rough-AD refining cap on a regular basis. More hardcore players, of course, will be screwed on their DD items. They'll have less incentive to run DDs, but the non-DD drops they pick up will become more valuable.
I checked the Salvager on the Preview Shard, by the way, and I was getting prices of 3k-10k for T1-T2 stuff. Not much better than market value, on average, but somewhat better than average market value in my experience.
YMMV.
but its rough astral mate,already with dailies (pvp+foundry +GG stuff that dont take much time along with some leadership u get to the refine or close to it...)
so if u have reached close or the cap u have 0 incentive to do DD...and non DD drops that are actually worth it to sell rarely drop and u need to do LOTS of raids to actually get sth..cant even remember last time i got sth good from boss drop...
A casual player will need to raid patiently and like forever to actually get a nice chunk of AD to boost his gear...
and the salvage thingie wont boost his AD income,it will just be like ''oh well im bored to do dailies and leadership so i just gonna try do 2 runs of DD to reach the 24k cap''.
I would agree with u,if they increase the refine cap for rough astral diamonds or make the salvage give AD and not rough..
but its rough astral mate,already with dailies (pvp+foundry +GG stuff that dont take much time along with some leadership u get to the refine or close to it...)
We clearly have a different definition of casual player if you think that the refining cap is an important part of this discussion. That's fine; experiences vary, after all. For my part, I rarely refine more than about 5k on any given day. I'd rather gouge my own eyes out than run more than one of the current dailies per day.
so if u have reached close or the cap u have 0 incentive to do DD...and non DD drops that are actually worth it to sell rarely drop and u need to do LOTS of raids to actually get sth..cant even remember last time i got sth good from boss drop...
Right. If you're already near the refining cap (because you ran lots of dailies or whatever), then you probably don't want to run the DD event. On the other hand, most of the items you were likely to get in the DD chest aren't much more valuable on the AH (on Beholder) than they are on the Salvager. In my experience, the opposite is actually true: the Salvager will give you as much or more, on average, than the Beholder-server Auction House for the typical T2 DD chest item.
A casual player will need to raid patiently and like forever to actually get a nice chunk of AD to boost his gear...
Yes, you're absolutely right. And he'll have to pay more for the items that do make it to the AH, after the patch.
All I'm saying is that the problem you describe (casual players having to grind forever to get a nice chunk of AD) already existed. The market for the items the casual player was likely to loot from T2 chests was already in the toilet. The patch isn't going to change things all that much, in that respect.
As in real life, the people who got in on the ground floor (players who farmed T2 at the beginning of early BETA) have a huge advantage. Everyone else has to farm CN to catch up. Any lesser dungeon yields pretty crappy earnings, these days.
They do convert at 100% but you can only convert 24,000 per day. This is their way of controlling your AD gains from running repeatable quests and leadership tasks.
It's their way of controlling the money supply. There's a crucial difference between the AD you can earn as an individual, and the AD that you (through dailies or leadership or whatever) create out of thin air.
you're 100% correct.....stop ppl exploiting/shortcuting dungeon runs during event time. supply will drop; prices will rise. ppl are running 3 or 4 dungeons in an event which it was never designed for thats the real issue here. not the dd chest drops but the number of times they get to open them in an hour. simple math 1 (per hour)x5 = 5 4x5=20 multipled by a % of 2 million players its simple to see were the issue is.
Boss drops are worthless because the number of items being flooded into the market. With less items going into the market prices will increase.
The worthiness of any given item is not only a result of it's availability alone. Demand is driven by "desire" and that again is driven by (real or percieved) usefulness, coolness etc. An example: You could lower the number of purple "+1AC" rings in the game as much as you like, the actuall trade volume of AD won't increase since there are rings in the game that offer a by far higher "value".
Fix dungeon queue system always got wait hours to get in and cant even idle. PVP is so quick and i dont understand why they cant do the same for skirmish and dungeons.
Who ever wrote the news page that links to this thread made a mistake on the date of the festival:
New Event: Summer Festival!
Starting at 10:00 AM Pacific on Saturday, August 29, Sergeant Knox will have a quest to point players to the festival grounds near Neverwinter!
The Midsummer Festival will be running for several weeks. Log in every day to earn progress toward festival-themed fireworks, a new companion, a new mount, a fashion set celebrating the season, and more!
August 29th is a Thursday.
It seems PWE just can't get their dates right with Neverwinter or Star Trek Online.
Fix dungeon queue system always got wait hours to get in and cant even idle. PVP is so quick and i dont understand why they cant do the same for skirmish and dungeons.
Perhaps because a DC is pretty vital to have in a party for PvE Dungeons, whereas it is a liability in PvP? And a lot of DCs will only run higher level Dungeons with guildies anyway reducing the number queuing still further.
Skirmishes can be done fairly easily (except maybe the highest level one) without a DC, though.
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zaflartMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited August 2013
This is what happens when a western company is sold to Chinese interests, who change everything to the Korean model. If the Chinese, (who only know greed, when it comes to capitalism) hadn't gotten their fingers in it, Neverwinter could be a great game.
The only things missing now are, leader boards and server merges which beget new shards (so everyone can race to be the best).
I do feel for those, in the west, who spent cash on this game expecting anything, in the way of value, for their dollar.
This is what happens when a western company is sold to Chinese interests, who change everything to the Korean model. If the Chinese, (who only know greed, when it comes to capitalism) hadn't gotten their fingers in it, Neverwinter could be a great game.
The only things missing now are, leader boards and server merges which beget new shards (so everyone can race to be the best).
I do feel for those, in the west, who spent cash on this game expecting anything, in the way of value, for their dollar.
nothing but racist sterotyping...and the "west" consists of more than one currency Einstein.
I certainly hope you're going to make it so that the gear gets bound to the current owner as of the update to prevent people from trying to hang onto it and selling it later.
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tohightoplayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2013
Kind of depends on how much ad you get from salvage. If you're at best in every slot currently, and don't need anything the bind on pickup chest rewards well only be worth the time spent, dungeon delving, if it salvages for a decent reward. 1000 ad isn't worth a half hour imo
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tohightoplayMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2013
Actually, if a person turns 60, runs 4, 10 minute dungeon delves in one day, they are automatically top geared. I don't know why everyone is referencing supply and demand, when the market is non existent in the AH for items that are bop. It well not increase or decrease, it well no longer exist
Actually, if a person turns 60, runs 4, 10 minute dungeon delves in one day, they are automatically top geared. I don't know why everyone is referencing supply and demand, when the market is non existent in the AH for items that are bop. It well not increase or decrease, it well no longer exist
1.how could you run an epic dungeon in 10 mins unless you're exploiting it?
2.It really does'nt matter if the salvage reward is good.. since you can only refine 24k worth of AD's per day.
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zaflartMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited August 2013
@ dexyman post #175
If you don't understand the Korean model micro-transaction plan, you're the Einstein.
The way the Chinese government is run greed is encouraged. The state even finances gold farming via prisoners. "Chinese Prisoners Forced to Farm MMO Gold" The Escapist, 26 May 2011 4:39 am
Read: "Why China Does Capitalism Better than the U.S." Time Magazine, Thursday, Jan. 20, 2011
As for the currencies, my apologies for only listing the one I use. It was supposed to be understood there are more types, the list is a bit longer than I wanted... To convey my message (there are over twenty different currencies).
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chidy1776Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I feel like this change is going to destroy the market for gear, and since salvage rewards rough ad its going to b a lot harder to make ad now.
Paul 60 guardian fighter on mindflayer.
Rising Star, fun friendly, community focused guild on mindflayer. We strive to help each other and enjoy the game together. Talk to me for info, or feel free to check and join our community at risingstarneverwinter.enjin.com
Actually, if a person turns 60, runs 4, 10 minute dungeon delves in one day, they are automatically top geared.
It will still take a while to gear up because there is no guarantee that you will get any armor from the DD chest. The only change is that IF you do get a piece of armor you can pick the set. You will still have the same high chance to only get the normal garbage. It is still a horrible change and it is obviously geared towards increasing the prices on the AH to the point where more players will feel the need to exchange Zen for AD to buy the BOE versions that will still drop occasionally from the AH.
Comments
first of all fix professions because they are utterly useless now
second, bind on pickup from the DD box? ARE YOU SERIOUS? the implications of this are just insanely huge! if i cant sell that one item i get every DD, then how do i make money? or what use is that item if i already have all the items i want equipped???
decrease the nr of drops in the game automatically inflating prices and making them prohibitive to the normal average player, forcing them to buy zen to "gear out" his/her char. also making ppl stop doing dungeons and effectively killing end game content , perhaps the current problem is not the drop system... but the broken dungeon system the game has, Harder = more Adds... take the adds away from the boss fights all the dungeons would have 100% clear rate, so that by itself would not be the solution
redoing the boss mechanics ( making them actually hard to kill ) and reducing the amount of adds by about 75% would solve the issue ........the fights would be more demanding and less about the adds ( its a BOSS fight )
also i don't see the problem with the in game drop items being affordable by a standard player ..... unless u want to make 2M ad from the drops just to see that u still cant afford anything because the prices went up , and 2M is now equivalent to 100k ( the difference is u can actually make 100K from rough astral diamonds )
but by all means make stuff BOP and slowly kill your player base
But the filler stuff can go 2k-6k AD(there are certain fillers u can sell for more tho as well),the salvage will give u rough AD lol.
u can have 10 milion rough it wont matter,u can only refine 24k per day (i think ,or did they increase it?)
I agree is just opinions so far since u cant test it,but it kinda obvious they kinda trying to push ppl buying zen ;/
36 pages of players requesting this function, we wonder why it hasn't been included in this update?
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?247612-Race-changes-and-why-they-re-needed/page36
Right, that's why it's a buff to the earning power of casual players: those players probably aren't going to run enough dungeons to hit the rough-AD refining cap on a regular basis. More hardcore players, of course, will be screwed on their DD items. They'll have less incentive to run DDs, but the non-DD drops they pick up will become more valuable.
I checked the Salvager on the Preview Shard, by the way, and I was getting prices of 3k-10k for T1-T2 stuff. Not much better than market value, on average, but somewhat better than average market value in my experience.
YMMV.
I don't even see the salvage vendor after the patch went in, am I missing something?
He's in that little courtyard with all the seal vendors. (On the Preview Server, Mimic.)
They do convert at 100% but you can only convert 24,000 per day. This is their way of controlling your AD gains from running repeatable quests and leadership tasks. The new BoP patch will just add more rough AD to players who are already reaching the refining cap. They exist in the game to keep the illusion alive that you do not have to pay to play. This was true until now. Technically it is still true. You do not have to pay a dime to play this game but they just removed one of the best sources of AD income from the game so you will gain AD at a much slower rate. You will still be able to make money from selling enchants, but it takes a ton of collecting to make a high rank enchant and coalescent ward to make armor/weapon enchant.
It also appears they removed coalescent wards and preservation wards from the new lockboxes (I may be wrong, but they are not listed as a possible drop from the coffers the lockboxes drop) which will make enchants even more inaccessible to those who do not buy Zen. You will either Pray or Pay to get them.
Isku
This will just boost up the people who bot and farm for enchants...and now we are going to see the market flooded with stacks of 99 rank 4 and 5...GG Cryptic..you just made the problem worse....
but its rough astral mate,already with dailies (pvp+foundry +GG stuff that dont take much time along with some leadership u get to the refine or close to it...)
so if u have reached close or the cap u have 0 incentive to do DD...and non DD drops that are actually worth it to sell rarely drop and u need to do LOTS of raids to actually get sth..cant even remember last time i got sth good from boss drop...
A casual player will need to raid patiently and like forever to actually get a nice chunk of AD to boost his gear...
and the salvage thingie wont boost his AD income,it will just be like ''oh well im bored to do dailies and leadership so i just gonna try do 2 runs of DD to reach the 24k cap''.
I would agree with u,if they increase the refine cap for rough astral diamonds or make the salvage give AD and not rough..
We clearly have a different definition of casual player if you think that the refining cap is an important part of this discussion. That's fine; experiences vary, after all. For my part, I rarely refine more than about 5k on any given day. I'd rather gouge my own eyes out than run more than one of the current dailies per day.
Right. If you're already near the refining cap (because you ran lots of dailies or whatever), then you probably don't want to run the DD event. On the other hand, most of the items you were likely to get in the DD chest aren't much more valuable on the AH (on Beholder) than they are on the Salvager. In my experience, the opposite is actually true: the Salvager will give you as much or more, on average, than the Beholder-server Auction House for the typical T2 DD chest item.
Yes, you're absolutely right. And he'll have to pay more for the items that do make it to the AH, after the patch.
All I'm saying is that the problem you describe (casual players having to grind forever to get a nice chunk of AD) already existed. The market for the items the casual player was likely to loot from T2 chests was already in the toilet. The patch isn't going to change things all that much, in that respect.
As in real life, the people who got in on the ground floor (players who farmed T2 at the beginning of early BETA) have a huge advantage. Everyone else has to farm CN to catch up. Any lesser dungeon yields pretty crappy earnings, these days.
It's their way of controlling the money supply. There's a crucial difference between the AD you can earn as an individual, and the AD that you (through dailies or leadership or whatever) create out of thin air.
There has to be a limit on AD creation.
you're 100% correct.....stop ppl exploiting/shortcuting dungeon runs during event time. supply will drop; prices will rise. ppl are running 3 or 4 dungeons in an event which it was never designed for thats the real issue here. not the dd chest drops but the number of times they get to open them in an hour. simple math 1 (per hour)x5 = 5 4x5=20 multipled by a % of 2 million players its simple to see were the issue is.
The worthiness of any given item is not only a result of it's availability alone. Demand is driven by "desire" and that again is driven by (real or percieved) usefulness, coolness etc. An example: You could lower the number of purple "+1AC" rings in the game as much as you like, the actuall trade volume of AD won't increase since there are rings in the game that offer a by far higher "value".
August 29th is a Thursday.
It seems PWE just can't get their dates right with Neverwinter or Star Trek Online.
Perhaps because a DC is pretty vital to have in a party for PvE Dungeons, whereas it is a liability in PvP? And a lot of DCs will only run higher level Dungeons with guildies anyway reducing the number queuing still further.
Skirmishes can be done fairly easily (except maybe the highest level one) without a DC, though.
The only things missing now are, leader boards and server merges which beget new shards (so everyone can race to be the best).
I do feel for those, in the west, who spent cash on this game expecting anything, in the way of value, for their dollar.
nothing but racist sterotyping...and the "west" consists of more than one currency Einstein.
1.how could you run an epic dungeon in 10 mins unless you're exploiting it?
2.It really does'nt matter if the salvage reward is good.. since you can only refine 24k worth of AD's per day.
If you don't understand the Korean model micro-transaction plan, you're the Einstein.
The way the Chinese government is run greed is encouraged. The state even finances gold farming via prisoners. "Chinese Prisoners Forced to Farm MMO Gold" The Escapist, 26 May 2011 4:39 am
Read: "Why China Does Capitalism Better than the U.S." Time Magazine, Thursday, Jan. 20, 2011
As for the currencies, my apologies for only listing the one I use. It was supposed to be understood there are more types, the list is a bit longer than I wanted... To convey my message (there are over twenty different currencies).
Rising Star, fun friendly, community focused guild on mindflayer. We strive to help each other and enjoy the game together. Talk to me for info, or feel free to check and join our community at risingstarneverwinter.enjin.com
It will still take a while to gear up because there is no guarantee that you will get any armor from the DD chest. The only change is that IF you do get a piece of armor you can pick the set. You will still have the same high chance to only get the normal garbage. It is still a horrible change and it is obviously geared towards increasing the prices on the AH to the point where more players will feel the need to exchange Zen for AD to buy the BOE versions that will still drop occasionally from the AH.