Exploit Quests on the Foundry Best Page

zovya · July 2013

I've been the good cheerleader for a long time. I've done, I don't know how many, streamed foundry playthroughs. I've been a Cryptic fan since City of Heroes release. I also know how badly the UGC became in Cryptic's games and I want, still want, to believe that Neverwinter will be different. I think the devs want it to be different.

Farming Quests: I know that farming quests will be popular. They don't break the TOS, they are legitimate quests and I don't have a problem with that. Let the public decide what they like. I don't care. It is, what it is.

Exploit Quests: This is blatantly against the TOS. Cryptic could add "evade" mechanics to mobs and this wouldn't be a problem anymore. But this type of quests is what the devs have said they don't want.

The NEW tab: There are at least 10 exploit quests in the NEW tab (stopped counting). I understand that you can't police quests as they are created. They need to be reported, and eventually removed. However, a PWE/Cryptic employee need only to "look" at that tab to see the questionable quests, by the very title of those quests.

The BEST tab: This is where I'm starting to lose it. Two of those exploit quests have made their way to the BEST tab. They have been there since during the weekend. They have been reported by me and friends. They have not kicked my quests off of the BEST tab. I understand that the weekend can generate a lot of tickets to have to sort through. I understand that there might be a while to get around to removing an exploit quest. But it's been days now. It's on THE FREAKING BEST TAB. Does no one even look at that?

How we can help the devs: Flood them with reports. The general public IS NOT going to report these quests. They love them. Only authors care about this. Let's get together in groups. When anyone is on, any of your friends, any that you know on the forums, group together. It doesn't matter what level you are, everyone in the group can rate the quest, and report it. If you see me online, invite me to a "report party" and I'll join up, unless I'm already in a "report party".

Flood of reports: If there are enough reports within a short time, the quest is automatically pulled until a dev reviews it. It's only a guess, but I'm putting that number around 10-15. If a lazy dev just puts it back up, then report it again. Let this be our new past time. Go through the new list. Start up "report parties" and flood them with reports.

Why: This is discouraging. I don't want this to be like STO or CoX. My initial reaction was to pull my quests and leave. But I don't want to go down without a fight first. I don't want them to push me out of my sandbox. I was here first! They can GTFO my lawn.

Two ways to report:

Best Way: Play though the quest, preferably in a party so it's easier, faster, and more people to report it. At the end chest, select to review the quest. Click the "Report for violation of TOS" button and report it. The more of these that happen, it will be automatically taken down by the game system. You have to power to take these quests down immediately. DO NOT rate the quest now or ever. It may overwrite your report. We don't know, don't risk it. Who cares what the rating is if it's been taken down.

Easy Way: If you're too lazy to play through the quests, at least open a behavior ticket against the author. This is an approved procedure the devs have also asked us to do. In game, press the H button. Select "request GM" then select "behavior". Report the @author name and short code and the reason for report.

And if you can, please do both, for each author and each quest, each day. Let's stop this before it gets out of hand.

wuhsin · July 2013

You have my applause, and unconditional support, in your endeavor to combat this menace, Zovya.

xpurpleinsanityx · July 2013

We, as authors, need to do what we can to help combat this. If you don't want to take the route of playing it, downrating it, and reporting it there..at least send in a ticket with the username. We've gotta try and get these pulled down.

It's an ugly mess...

zahinder · July 2013

After a year of authors complaining about one-click missions (IE: start mission, walk over, click something, REWARD), Cryptic finally fixed the issue.

And then I think it was Stahl who complained that the Foundry authors hadn't done enough to 'police themselves.'

Yeah. Good luck, Zovya

zovya · July 2013

zahinder wrote: »

After a year of authors complaining about one-click missions (IE: start mission, walk over, click something, REWARD), Cryptic finally fixed the issue.

And then I think it was Stahl who complained that the Foundry authors hadn't done enough to 'police themselves.'

Yeah. Good luck, Zovya

Right, I don't ever want to hear a dev say that about us. Still, I don't think that's our responsibility. But there are far more of us authors than there are of the exploit authors. We will win this.

celantra · July 2013

At least this is a solution that works within the box.

zahinder · July 2013

zovya wrote: »

Right, I don't ever want to hear a dev say that about us. Still, I don't think that's our responsibility. But there are far more of us authors than there are of the exploit authors. We will win this.

I think it's inevitable. Cryptic is very reluctant to take any responsibility for moderating Foundry, and have a very... odd notion of how much power and control authors have.

Whatever they do, expect Cryptic to be a bit exasperated that authors were not somehow able to stop exploits and put-upon that they were dragged into doing their job.

cribstaxxx · July 2013

The Tymora box weekend was the only thing fueling these exploit quests wasn't it? I personally did a couple b/c the drop rate was simply 10 times better than any other content. But now that the event is over I'm back to running the awesome quests that you great authors make

maybe its more of a problem than I realize but at least personally I have never seen the need to run an exploit foundry until this weekend, and don't see any reason to in the future, so this problem should fix itself.

zovya · July 2013

cribstaxxx wrote: »

The Tymora box weekend was the only thing fueling these exploit quests wasn't it? I personally did a couple b/c the drop rate was simply 10 times better than any other content. But now that the event is over I'm back to running the awesome quests that you great authors make maybe its more of a problem than I realize but at least personally I have never seen the need to run an exploit foundry until this weekend, and don't see any reason to in the future, so this problem should fix itself.

As mentioned above, I'm actually ok with farming quests. I think cryptic should even make a separate tab for farming quests. They are going to be around, I say just give them their own area.

cribstaxxx · July 2013

Oh in that case I don't even know what an exploit foundry is lol. But I have been enjoying all the UGC thus far, thank you to all dedicated foundry authors, you guys make the game a lot more fun!

apocrs1980 · July 2013

yes, there are 5 quests by the same author all are exploit maps as clearly stated in his overview, I suggest reporting them all.

zovya · July 2013

I can't say what the exploit is, my post would be removed. But the authors know. And they know not to use it. We need to stop the rogue authors from using it.

sarkany69 · July 2013

I try to do my best to support other authors and I would be willing to help with this, only problem is I honestly don't know what would constitute an "exploit map". I've seen a few farming maps, but as you said earlier, you don't count that as a exploit. I've never run across an exploit map yet and don't know how to find them, though that could largely be because 95% of the foundries I run are foundries I find in the forums.

What would be an example of an exploit map?

artgod · July 2013

What exactly is an 'exploit'? Maybe it might help to define it so that authors know what to not put in there, etc.

For example, I was thinking about making some quest where you have either one route that is full of encounters or one that is full of traps and no encounters, etc. Would that be an 'exploit' since the traps could be easily avoidable, etc.

What about quests that don't have any encounters if you pick the right dialogue chains?

The list can go on and on with what ifs...

zovya · July 2013

If you can attack a mob, and they cannot attack you (usually best for a ranged class). That is exploiting the mob AI. It is against the TOS.

cribstaxxx · July 2013

Ah yes so I was talking about exploit maps earlier lol. I confess I used a few during the weekend, But I enjoy and support good foundry authors. Doing foundries just for the AD reward is a waste of time, doing foundries that are immersive, well made, and just plain fun is why I like UGC

sarkany69 · July 2013

zovya wrote: »

If you can attack a mob, and they cannot attack you (usually best for a ranged class). That is exploiting the mob AI. It is against the TOS.

I didn't even know that was possible. Thanks for the explanation Zovya.

eldarth · July 2013

+1 agree.

I think when we're asked about "tags" we should be sure to have one or more for the ADD/exploit/phat-loot kiddies that they will hopefully use to 5-star that tag and find their own kind leaving the other tags for us.

artgod · July 2013

zovya wrote: »

If you can attack a mob, and they cannot attack you (usually best for a ranged class). That is exploiting the mob AI. It is against the TOS.

I can't remember which room it is but one of the default rooms (one that I used in the quest I just published last night) have a like ledge thing around the border and it's all sunken in under y=0 in the middle... in theory anyone using that room in a map where mobs are on the lower level would breaking TOS? Why is the room in the foundry if it's a cause of exploit?

zovya · July 2013

artgod wrote: »

I can't remember which room it is but one of the default rooms (one that I used in the quest I just published last night) have a like ledge thing around the border and it's all sunken in under y=0 in the middle... in theory anyone using that room in a map where mobs are on the lower level would breaking TOS? Why is the room in the foundry if it's a cause of exploit?

I'd have to see the room you're talking about. There may be pathing, not immediately obvious, on that map that would allow mobs to get to the players.

saerrael · July 2013

Only just logged in... 'That' quest is on the Best tab? I've been reporting a series of exploit maps since the weekend. Apparently I need to focus on one or something to get it removed.

dzogen · July 2013

First, I think most or all of my quests are off the best tab now which happened sooner than expected. but hey, you have to be consistent, best is what the people want. And people have spoken.

I personally don't have much of an issue with these quests or what people like as it is a free market system.

But I can understand (given the current system) why many authors would care. And I see them reporting & doing things like taking down their quests, etc. Obviously for whatever reasons that is not proving to be an effective approach.

To me, the best way to make a statement would be for everyone to make these types of maps and overwhelm the best page. When the best tab is a complete mess of exploits, then it ends up making a mockery of the system.

I'm happy to republish all my best tab quests and take over the page if this is an idea you guys think has merit.

zovya · July 2013

dzogen wrote: »

First, I think most or all of my quests are off the best tab now which happened sooner than expected. but hey, you have to be consistent, best is what the people want. And people have spoken.

I personally don't have much of an issue with these quests or what people like as it is a free market system.

I'm not advocating against farming quests. As mentioned twice now, I would actually like Cryptic to put a farming tab into the game. There will always be farming quests, let's give them a place to be. And I've said, let the public decide what they want. This is about quests that are exploiting mob AI as stated is against the TOS and nothing has been done about it as of yet. Several days have passed now on the issue.

dzogen wrote: »

But I can understand (given the current system) why many authors would care. And I see them reporting & doing things like taking down their quests, etc. Obviously for whatever reasons that is not proving to be an effective approach.

To me, the best way to make a statement would be for everyone to make these types of maps and overwhelm the best page. When the best tab is a complete mess of exploits, then it ends up making a mockery of the system.

I'm happy to republish all my best tab quests and take over the page if this is an idea you guys think has merit.

That's phase... something after one. I don't want to go down that road yet.

zahinder · July 2013

I know I keep bringing up STO, but, well, it was Cryptic's previous attempt and there are several years of experiences to draw from.

And the same thing was said over and over and over by the author community there -- 'we don't like farm missions, but we have no problem with them except for the fact they drown the listings and make it hard for people to find OUR stuff.'

Of course, this didn't stop other folks from constantly mischaracterizing it as 'authors want farms removed and for us to be forced to play their long-winded stupid missions!'

I haven't seen much of that last here... yet. But wait.

karitr · July 2013

Having seen reports go unheeded, I think 'playing' and 1 starring would probably be the most efficient way to go. However, you then run the risk of being banned for actually 'playing' the things. Hopefully a small risk...I am certainly happy to take part on the Beholder shard.

dzogen · July 2013

karitr wrote: »

Having seen reports go unheeded, I think 'playing' and 1 starring would probably be the most efficient way to go. However, you then run the risk of being banned for actually 'playing' the things. Hopefully a small risk...I am certainly happy to take part on the Beholder shard.

one starring best quests doesn't really do too much. author community is too small as compared to playerbase

antonkyle · July 2013

karitr wrote: »

Having seen reports go unheeded, I think 'playing' and 1 starring would probably be the most efficient way to go. However, you then run the risk of being banned for actually 'playing' the things. Hopefully a small risk...I am certainly happy to take part on the Beholder shard.

As a 'new' author it is pretty disheartening to think that people are playing these quests just to give them one star and not playing new ones.

zovya · July 2013

karitr wrote: »

Having seen reports go unheeded, I think 'playing' and 1 starring would probably be the most efficient way to go. However, you then run the risk of being banned for actually 'playing' the things. Hopefully a small risk...I am certainly happy to take part on the Beholder shard.

I'm a fan of your posts, but this I completely disagree with. There aren't enough of us to effect any changes to the ratings by running these quests and giving them 1-star ratings. It only takes a few reports (in a short time), however, to take it down completely. We are few, this is the only recourse. The problem is, everyone is looking to someone else to report it. And not enough people are.

beckylunatic · July 2013

Well, I didn't really understand the different between a farm quest and an exploit map, but now I do.

I don't know if the same personnel have to deal with reports as with GM help requests, but it's been taking 3+ days for somebody to get back to me about various issues I've had in-game (but they do get back to me!). Of course, I can't speak to your experiences as authors.

It would probably be easier for me to play and report this stuff if I had a wizard, but I don't, and I imagine they're slow going with a non-DPS spec cleric. If it would help though, I'd be willing to try. Most of my guys are melee-types.

zovya · July 2013

beckylunatic wrote: »

Well, I didn't really understand the different between a farm quest and an exploit map, but now I do.

I don't know if the same personnel have to deal with reports as with GM help requests, but it's been taking 3+ days for somebody to get back to me about various issues I've had in-game (but they do get back to me!). Of course, I can't speak to your experiences as authors.

It would probably be easier for me to play and report this stuff if I had a wizard, but I don't, and I imagine they're slow going with a non-DPS spec cleric. If it would help though, I'd be willing to try. Most of my guys are melee-types.

Easy enough to get a group together for these quests. They do drop a lot of loots.

karitr · July 2013

dzogen wrote: »

one starring best quests doesn't really do too much. author community is too small as compared to playerbase

Fair enough. I didn't think they had that many plays/reviews to not be affected by a mass of one-star ratings, but I hadn't looked too close lately I admit.

antonkyle wrote: »

As a 'new' author it is pretty disheartening to think that people are playing these quests just to give them one star and not playing new ones.

I do play new ones. The map that originally got some people's goat and now has several clones is straight in and out. It takes no time to complete so will certainly not take time away from other quests.

zovya wrote: »

I'm a fan of your posts, but this I completely disagree with. There aren't enough of us to effect any changes to the ratings by running these quests and giving them 1-star ratings. It only takes a few reports (in a short time), however, to take it down completely. We are few, this is the only recourse. The problem is, everyone is looking to someone else to report it. And not enough people are.

The thing is they have been reported; some weeks ago and they still languish in the catalogue. However, if 1 starring them will have no affect, then of course there is no point to do so.

Exploit Quests on the Foundry Best Page

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