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TR still needs more nerfs!
thesaminator1
Member Posts: 36
First off while TR's will receive a nerf, I think they should receive even more. First off stealth needs to be nerfed moar. It should completely cancel stealth if an at will is used because at that point they are not being stealthy. 2ndly stealth should be able to be seen through by mobs when the TR gets close enough; it's this way for players why not mobs. As for their dailies, they are still too stronk. Lurkers should just only give stealth that doesnt break for the 5 secs and completely remove the 15% crit severity, that is way too much damage on top of utility. As for shocking exedouchion the damage should be nerfed again and have it made to be dodgeable. Having it not be dodgeable is just way too gud. Finally the worst one is Whirlwind of blades, it gives huge amounts of power and does massive amounts of damage too. These clearly need a nerf. If any powers were to be remade, bait and switch should not give so much ap, 50% ap is way too much. Also it should only trick mobs if the person is in stealth and it should break stealth when cast. The worst power however is impossible to catch, it makes them be able to tank entire teams like the gwf in unstoppable. For the gwf this is fine but because the class is a TR it should not be able to. There are plenty moar nerfz dat shud be made to teh TR on top of deese but ill stop there with just these suggestions.
PS. You should look at the 2nd page with all the pretty colors for actual seggestions(if u dont realize im actually mostly joking here lolz)
PS. You should look at the 2nd page with all the pretty colors for actual seggestions(if u dont realize im actually mostly joking here lolz)
Post edited by thesaminator1 on
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I think stealth should also instantly kill the TR, and when they damage a target that it instead heals the target. Also when a TR runs forward it should move them backwards and vice versa. Is that some of the other things you want, eh?
No these are ridiculous, my seggestions were much more valid and represent many of the points brought up in the NW forums. Its also been apparent that posts like mine are actually listened to by the DEVs. If you are going to make a suggestion you should provide more details or proof why it is needed.
I agree the changes are in the right direction but I do agree with the OP. When I get hit with the first dagger from stealth it should break stealth and combat begins. Also mobs should see rogues in stealth when close to them like within 10 yards. Then there should be some CD on going back into stealth. I don't know why making combat reveal stealth as a problem or if they have a dot on them they can't stealth I mean it only makes sense. I guess ill take the current changes as they are at least working on the class.
They still one shot with 20k+ SE.
Obviously they should replace all their dailies with fluffy pillows that heal whatever target they stab.
Also stealth should instantly kill the TR.
I mean common, they go into some crazy shadow dimension. How they breathzors?!?
Also Duelist fury should injure the TR's arms whenever it's used.
Common, flailing their arms around that quickly should break their arms.
Also you need to use a injury kit to fix there arms afterwards or have to stand in a campfire.
I just knew he would show up in this thread, take it seriously, and say "yeah, that's a good idea."
No injury kits.
How are you suppose to apply them to yourself with broken arms? Attempting to do so should cause 1k damage & bleed to the TR.
You MUST stand in a campfire for 3 minutes.
The only exception is if your Dex is somehow over 35. (Then your feet should be dexterous enough to apply it to yourself.
Everyday I come check the forums to see if there is actually relevant info about the upcoming changes and everyday it gets more pathetic and ridiculous.
"nerf moar" is the kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I have to read..
/golfclap
Joke is a understatement for what goes on here, but i guess it is better to read it than to be blind after all.
Nothing useful just more diatribe from the uninformed......
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
its fine L2P!!!
#1 Stealth mechanic should be changed for sight and At Wills
First off Stealth should be able to be seen through by mobs and players within 5m. This can be lowered by some ideas for new passives like Tenacious Concealment which could now lower the sight range by 30,60,90% respectively allowing TRs to sneak around or get close to mobs/players w/o being seen. Also as for At Wills breaking Stealth, it breaks stealth(like it should) but create Combat Advantage for 5 seconds against the target if the At Will hit. This would allow the damage to be retained from combat advantage but cause the TR to break Stealth.
#2 The Dailies, mainly Lurkers Assault. First off just in general Shocking Execution should just be made to be dodgeable....just like every other skill. Best example of something exactly the same is Ice Knife, only it is dodgeable. As for Lurkers Assault, the current duration nerf is completely fine, and it should only last 5 seconds. However, it does need some damage and because of the idea of the Stealth rework. So, instead of Lurkers Assault breaking Stealth when an At Will is used, it should keep stealth up and apply a 100% chance to crit for all At Wills used. This would not apply to Encounters and infact cause Lurkers Assault to end if used. This way the skill would do extra damage but would be limited to crit severity so it wouldn't reach insane numbers and also make it so getting one shotted by an Encounter when it is up doesn't happen.
#3 Some powers should be changed, mainly the Encounters ,Bait and Switch, and Impossible to Catch. A change needed to Bait and Switch is the fact that enemy mobs will continue to attack it even if the player is within full sight and is attacking it. It should be changed so that the mob only continues to attack it while the player is in Stealth or is more than 15m away. As for Impossible to Catch, it's time should be lowered overall to 1,2,3 seconds because it's primary function is to break free of control powers,which is fine, but it currently lasts far too long.
#4 Basically the quickest change to the Stealth feats is to change from, "While in Stealth" to, "During Combat Advantage". This would work with most of the current feats and would push the player to play with combat advantage in mind, which is how the rogue is normally played in D&D.
So long story short, Stealth should be reworked to make it as a gap closer/initiator, and a means to run away, not a means to abuse and attack from a distance and create a way to solo whole dungeons. Some Dailies should be changed accordingly and have proper limitations. Some powers should be balanced to make more sense, and finally feats should be changed to work around Combat Advantage instead of Stealth; which would have players focus on it like traditional rogue D&D play.
PS. Might create this as an alternate thread lol
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
Well, it's not really stealth, is it. It functions more like a temporary invisibility. You can walk right up to something, then hit the button, and *poof* you are impossible to see by most enemies in PvE, and very difficult to see in PvP.
They may refer to it as stealth, but it has never acted as stealth, nor was there an attempt to design it as such. It functions much more like what would have been called a spell-like power in the old days.
You realize that with the current incoming nerfs that stealth will be now broken after about 3 at wills or during the middle of duelists flurry. So you would completely lose most of the buffs anyways vs combat advantage which will much more obtainable with these ideas.
and neither have you. Also the rogue isnt supposed to be a class with high survivability, its a assasin/dps class not a tank. If you want to survive stay in stealth and wait for encounters to come back as you pop a pot or cc someone or use impossible to catch ect... there are plenty of ways.
Yes I do realize this.
Cool, so I have to survive in stealth and wait for encounters to come back... so im a burst dps class... BETTER NERF PvP again?
The way that stealth + encounters work we are left with no stealth, since stealth is worked by regen when not taking damage then how are we going to stealth and let encounters to come back up? When we stealth away from boss fights and do nothing and wait for 5 secs until our encounters come back up? In temple of the spider im refilling my stealth 50% of the time by either lurker's or shadowstrike, simply because I can't regen any of my stealth due to the stupidly amount of adds that spawn, and having boss seeing through stealth.
I don't mind at wills break stealth but there is currently no way for us to regen back up stealth except with shadowstrike.
Since you want stealth to be rogue's survival mechanism, then breaking from stealth should be a toggle. Encounters from stealth breaks stealth but does not drain entire stealth bar.
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What I think you meant is that rogues needs a rework instead of a nerf. If this game were to come close to traditional DnD play then traps should be able to 1 shot parties. rogue should high single target dps which will become the target of nerfs in PvP(which is what is happening right now). The current test patch is encouraging rogues just pop stealth to either just use a single encounter or to run away. if you do engage you are too squishy to do anything. On Live shard, Rogues can engage for a short period of time then use encounter in stealth then be seen by all adds. With either your suggestion or test shard patches rogues can barely engage in combat with adds, unless its 1 single add but when do u see 1 single add other than a Spellplague maw or a Drider in ToS without accompanied by an army of other adds?
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
You bring up a very valid point which I was thinking on. One very easy solution to this is for damage to slow the regen rate of the bar by 50% instead of completely stopping it or reversing it. This added to my current ideas sounds much better and balanced.
Neither is perfect honestly but as for taking care of adds, just pop smoke, it dazes and gives combat advantage to everyone, which would be very beneficial to this build as well as your party. Also if you rotate smoke with singularity adds would almost always be controlled. On another note its a GF job to take on adds as well lolz. A TR cant do everything by themselves and no single class in general should be able to do everything.
Still even with a slowed regen it just feels to me that stealth + encounter is very still much of a 1 trick pony so much of a trickster rogue lol.
CW can do everything. It is a reason why u run 2 cw for cn. not just for draco exploit bugging the adds is that you already perma stunning the adds. So with the nerf in damage and daily for rogue, whats the point of a rogue when u can have 2 cw that fills the role of permastunning adds and being able to dps boss with x2 ray of enfeeblement(either both on tab or one person ahve on tab) + 6 stacks of high vizier + thurmaturge conduit debuffs, thats -30% migitation(if RoE is 15%) + -450(6) def high vizier + 15% more migitation ignored?
The only reason why rogues are wanted is because of their damage especially single target, if the damage nerfs does go through test shard into live, i would much prefer a vorpal gwf than a vorpal rogue. or just another geared cw for moar stun(combat advantage) + control + decent single target dps.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
I'm actually creating both of those right now lolz
seriously this very thread has existed since the launch of WoW and probably before that the truth is that no one has an I win button yet. there are powers that other classes have that make it hard for me too but I dont run to their forum crying for nerfs and if they get nerfed I wont run to them gleefully saying it wasnt enough.CWs make it hard for me to damage mobs by making me chase them in PVE, GFs and GWFs do the same with knock back, healers make me use pots and dont heal me enough in PvP I cant get to CWs cause they kite me ... the list goes on and on and on and on...and it really gets old the, fact is that skilled players adapt to the abilities of other classes and unskilled players cry about it. get over it. and the rogues all rush to the defense of their class because you put us on the defensive forgetting the powers that you have that annoy us. so the first class to whine is the class that gets what they want. its like being in grammar school.
Formatting for readability
DC should instantly die if they cast heal... Yada, yada... Cry me a river...
We get it.. you are enraged about something that doesn't have to do with this game.
Take away lurkers... etc.
TR's get one attack... and using it breaks stealth.
BUT... the attack instantly kills whoever they attack... because... let's be "realistic".... with that stealth attack, they are going to slit your throat... stab you through the heart... knife to the base of the skull...
Basically... it kills you instantly... I mean... that's realistic... right? Someone sneaks up on you... and they kill you... special forces do it all the time...
For fighters, let's make it realistic too... they have a fatigue bar.. and every swing and every special ability adds to the fatigue. When they hit the maximum, they fall over and collapse until 10 RL minutes pass.... plus... they must carry a special mixture of water and electrolytes and food to replenish their fatigue var.
Furthermore, let's make it more realistic for the clerics too... in order to stay in the good graces of their deity, they must actively convert 10 NPCs per day. Each one will require an hour or more of RL time to convert... and if you fail to convert that many, you lose your divine powers. Additionally, you must sacrifice incense and other valuable objects to their regularly.
And for mages.... make them carry a spellbook and find and research and practice the spells before using them. I think a week of RL time each time they earn a new spell should be plenty of time for the research and another week or so of RL time practicing should be sufficient. And, of course, any firebased attack on them has a chance to burn up their spellbook.
Sounds realistic to me.
Let's do it!