Actually, TR has the same dodge as DC and 1 less dodge than the CW. CW also has the option for a shield buff, TRs have the option for CC immunity/reflect for 3 sec or 3 sec of pure immunity (if stealthed on use). CW also has utility in his shield, in the form of a KB that deals massive damage to everthing around them.
To get more out of their dodge, the TR must spec in the top tree for the talent that reduces dodge cost by x% or y% while stealthed. Gimping their dps much more.
There are more classes that are deadlier and harder to fight than the rogue, so why nerf rogues?
1. GWF, GF
2. TR, CW
3. DC
Solution, buff DC, TR and CW to be on level with GWF and GF in PvP, nerfing never makes people happy. If PvE gets too easy, buff the mobs! Oh noes, it's almost rocket surgery to think of that!
Imo, rogues aren't really deadly, it's their 100 stuns which leave u defenseless. Without stun/daze the only kills they would be able to get is from ks'n other players. Other people may have different situations but the only time I die from rogues is when I'm stunned or lashed from behind while fighting somebody else.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Imo, rogues aren't really deadly, it's their 100 stuns which leave u defenseless. Without stun/daze the only kills they would be able to get is from ks'n other players. Other people may have different situations but the only time I die from rogues is when I'm stunned or lashed from behind while fighting somebody else.
Say what now? Stuns? What? This is NW not WoW incase you missed something. They have 1 stun, that must be used from stealth and it barely has any duration. They have 3 daze, 1 which must be used from stealth, 1 AoE which is easy to avoid (dodge) and 1 other that is easy to avoid unless hes stealthed. They also occupy encounter spots that are better used on other things.
Only the first two are really worth it, but the first is mostly used as stealth is about to fall off, to refill it. If you wanna talk stuns you are talking about the wrong class. Stuns and prones come from GWF, GF and CW.
@Embracemysword: I dont think you have much of a clue. TRs have 2 dodges before having to wait on CD, if they pull of more than that they are specced in the top tree, atleast 15 point in if I remember right to get any form of refund/reduction on dodge. By doing so they are gimping their damage alot.
You answer to mine also brings no light, are you arguing that GWF and GF arent the two strongest PvP classes? Maybe you play one of those and get your hiney handed to you on a regular basis? I dont, I find both classes very strong when I play them, and I find them the easiest most careless classes to play. They are also the most annoying thing to face as a TR or CW.
I've stopped playing my DC in BGs, not due to rogues, but due to CWs and GFs. They either pull their Vader trick or give me an air tour of the BG while killing me. When I wanna stand in my circle, they just say no no no and place me outside it. Atleast vs a TR or GWF I can stand in my circle, vs a stealth TR it's even easier, because his ranged attack wont kill me while in circle, if he gets close I'll just divinity FMF him.
Say what now? Stuns? What? This is NW not WoW incase you missed something. They have 1 stun, that must be used from stealth and it barely has any duration. They have 3 daze, 1 which must be used from stealth, 1 AoE which is easy to avoid (dodge) and 1 other that is easy to avoid unless hes stealthed. They also occupy encounter spots that are better used on other things.
Only the first two are really worth it, but the first is mostly used as stealth is about to fall off, to refill it. If you wanna talk stuns you are talking about the wrong class. Stuns and prones come from GWF, GF and CW.
@Embracemysword: I dont think you have much of a clue. TRs have 2 dodges before having to wait on CD, if they pull of more than that they are specced in the top tree, atleast 15 point in if I remember right to get any form of refund/reduction on dodge. By doing so they are gimping their damage alot.
You answer to mine also brings no light, are you arguing that GWF and GF arent the two strongest PvP classes? Maybe you play one of those and get your hiney handed to you on a regular basis? I dont, I find both classes very strong when I play them, and I find them the easiest most careless classes to play. They are also the most annoying thing to face as a TR or CW.
I've stopped playing my DC in BGs, not due to rogues, but due to CWs and GFs. They either pull their Vader trick or give me an air tour of the BG while killing me. When I wanna stand in my circle, they just say no no no and place me outside it. Atleast vs a TR or GWF I can stand in my circle, vs a stealth TR it's even easier, because his ranged attack wont kill me while in circle, if he gets close I'll just divinity FMF him.
omg don't even mention gf or gwf stuns, those are by far worse. When I'm on my cw, most gwf's can takedown from a distance (even during dodge) and gf's with their warp across the map charge then chain prone 2 hit attack that have you juggling until you dead. But atleast you can see them and have a chance to counter lol
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Counter them how? Once you are stunned/prone you are stuck there, getting pummeled by a blunt item or chopped into pieces by a blade. When the rogue dazes you, you can still move. And you can see rogues too when they come, it's not hard.
And if you cant see the rogue, he isnt using his CCs, so then whats the problem? Hard to toss down a AS and heal back while he wastes his stealth/throwing knives?
The thing is, even if you can see the GWF or GF, damaging them when they close in on you will either only upset the or have them raise their shield. Then suddenly they are in your face, beating you to pulp and you cant fend them off. They just have enough life/defensive CDs to not care while you try and hurt them.
I'm thinking of making this my sig.
Infact i should facebook it. Give the whole world a good laugh.
Right up there with "all your base are belong to us"
Don't forget to add "ive no brain and think it's funny". Rogues have a lot of tanking: stealth and dodge. GWFs or CWs can indeed do a lot more damage, but taking an assassin can be a better option, just because this stealth tanking can be required to hit stuff more often. If you don't understand that, then, i suggest you get a brain.
What was that you said about people pretending to know the internal structure? You probably make shoes or something equally uncomparable.
Wow you really shot down my post didnt you??? NOT You take one line and try to use it in reference to making shoes. . Here is my original post in italics along with more of a response to you following.
It would also be nice if people like yourself quit pretending to know the internal structure of every company involved with MMO's. Regardless of how the various departments are structured and what their responsibilities are its safe to say there are ongoing issues that have not been solved. The management of the company that allocates resources to various functions is beyond remiss in understanding the voice of their customer. The management of the game DOES direct more attention to cash grab than it should with the current state of the game.
"I have two separate departments for the lab in my business. One group designs products while the other QC's the ongoing production of those products. As demand varies in each area we are capable of reallocating resource to whatever best serves our customers. In addition if need be we invest in overtime. You can drone on and on about how Cryptic is different than my business but you are wrong. There is no doubt that those who design new content and those who fix bugs are capable to work in either area. If they aren't then whoever did the hiring needs fired."
Now please if you are going to take the time to troll at least put some thought into it. Give me a solid reason that anything I have said is untrue. For the record we do not make shoes although that is irrelevant. There are somethings that are fundamental to success in business regardless of the product and market. Fundamentals like listening to the voice of your customer, insuring the rights resources and assets are in place to meet the current business needs and making changes as those needs change. During my management of company wide SAP implementations we had departments that did custom programming, configuration and debugging. While I knew nothing of ABAP programming I did insure the people we hired had cross functional capability. We shifted resource as needed to support the business and our customer needs. Our companies annual sales were $3 billion last year.
Bottom line is that Cryptic needs to do a better job of listening to its customers and managing their resources.
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gutbotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
There are more classes that are deadlier and harder to fight than the rogue, so why nerf rogues?
1. GWF, GF
2. TR, CW
3. DC
That made me laugh putting TR's in the same bracket as cw's
Just for clarification I have all classes @60 apart from GWF, I play them all in pvp, I don't see the reason to play pve , I had enough of dungeons and skirmishes leveling (seems like pve is loads hp. ten spells divided among 10 different mobs with around 20 different models/textures.
GWF (lvl 38 atm) I'm finding it hard to play as I dislike the play style, out of all the classes this one feels like the class is carrying me, it feels clumsy, an after thought if you will. as opposed to robust standalone class in comparison to the majority of the rest.
GF is a traditional rogue with a shield, if I have my daily up you can guarantee my opponent is dead, they are fun to play but a nightmare when playing against one. they would be my favorite class to play, not because of it being total easy mode(It is close) just because the level of control you have you dont get with any other class.(cw comes close)
Cw's are ok but they feel much weaker in comparison to the melee classes, you have to work twice as hard as melee to achieve the same outcome.
TR(easy mode) I've one shot every class while stealth/lurkers/lashing blade with a 9kgs, they do need a nerf for pvp but if these patch notes go ahead it would be overkill. Out of every class this one feels the most like a glass cannon/bazooka imo.
DC is a Frankenstein's monster of a class, you basically have two modes , the rubbish mode and the divine mode. Sounds good right? why not just use the good mode? well unfortunately to use the good mode you essentially use mana (pips) to get the good spells. when the pips(mana) is gone your almost a sitting duck to nearly all classes. don't get me wrong its enjoyable to play, its just personally I feel very frustrated because the class feels lacking.
nope, avoiding damage isnt tanking when you also dont hold aggro, soaking up damage is tanking
tank
Noun: A player-character, typically in a MMORPG, that is able to occupy an agressor and take the brunt of the aggressor's attacks while the other players deal damage, heal, or perform some other action. The "tank" can survive longer while taking damage than the other characters. Typically, the tank has higher hitpoints (health) and a higher armor rating than the other characters.
nope, avoiding damage isnt tanking, soaking up damage is tanking
tank
Noun: A player-character, typically in a MMORPG, that is able to occupy an agressor and take the brunt of the aggressor's attacks while the other players deal damage, heal, or perform some other action. The "tank" can survive longer while taking damage than the other characters. Typically, the tank has higher hitpoints (health) and a higher armor rating than the other characters.
You can quote anything you like, you're confusing mitigation (taking damage) and tanking (any way to avoid taking damage). Mitigation is one form of tanking. There are others, like stealth and dodging. So, rogues are some of the tankiest characters, and do a lot of single target damage. They get a small nerf in one area. Not a big deal. If your rogue can't tank a boss (avoiding damage) then all your posts are meaningless anyway.
Which started off as a good topic has degraded into personal insults, general rudeness and off topic bickering.
Let's get back on track to the OP's message. I want to read about actual pros and cons to the changes. What I do NOT want to read is folks attacking each other on their opinions on what they feel will be the result of the new changes going live. We are better than this.
In a way, yes, all class have some tanking, which is fortunate. Rogues, though, with perma stealth builds, could deal damage and tank anything. Now, they have to chose between taking and doing damage. This is indeed a nerf but definitely not a bad one.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
In a way, yes, all class have some tanking, which is fortunate. Rogues, though, with perma stealth builds, could deal damage and tank anything. Now, they have to chose between taking and doing damage. This is indeed a nerf but definitely not a bad one.
This doesn't make sense. In my experience, "tanking" is where a member of a team draws enemy aggro, and thus also their damage. The thought being that the one doing this is better suited to withstand said damage, (typically by having heavier armor, hence the whole "tank" nomenclature). If you are stealthed, enemies don't aggro on you, thus you aren't drawing away their aggro and damage.
Now, a rogue using, for instance, smokebomb and/or a control-heavy build to keep enemies locked down, OTOH, *is* tanking, as they are both drawing enemy aggro and preventing said enemies from damaging teammates.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
In a way, yes, all class have some tanking, which is fortunate. Rogues, though, with perma stealth builds, could deal damage and tank anything. Now, they have to chose between taking and doing damage. This is indeed a nerf but definitely not a bad one.
No. The primary role of a tank is to hold aggro so the other classes can stay alive, taking damage is how the tank stays alive while doing its job of pulling aggro off of the other classes. All classes can avoid damage, only a tank can hold aggro and survive.
Just because you can go toe-to-toe with a boss and survive doesn't make you a tank, what makes you a tank is keeping the boss from eating the cleric, which is something a stealthed rogue can't do.
Now, a rogue using, for instance, smokebomb and/or a control-heavy build to keep enemies locked down, OTOH, *is* tanking, as they are both drawing enemy aggro and preventing said enemies from damaging teammates.
No that's CC, not tanking. The tank is there to deal with enemies that aren't locked down. If you can keep all of the enemies locked down then you don't need a tank, but that doesn't make you a tank.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
No that's CC, not tanking. The tank is there to deal with enemies that aren't locked down. If you can keep all of the enemies locked down then you don't need a tank, but that doesn't make you a tank.
That's an excellent point. Thanks for the correction.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Enchants are being sold en mass for the same reason profession resources are being sold en mass.
They aren't being duped.
It's definitely an issue but enchants are not being duped.
They're being sold "en mass", 'cos you've NERFED every other possible way for a player to get AD other than through the precious Zen store by converting. I have a GF that's got an 19 in Mailsmithing and I'm screwed, 'cos I can't forge items to sell, as they're now "bind on pickup." You're creating all seal items as "bind on pickup" to keep people from selling those too. What is left to sell? Paltry green items that you have to undercut just to sell or farm the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of professional nodes and mobs to get enchants. Even the profession resources are cheap, 'cos that's all we have left to sell. I get you need money to survive, I've worked in the industry, but PREVENTING people from earning a decent amount of AD *WITHOUT* converting Zen is killing your company.
As for PvP, I don't even play a TR, but what you did, was *WRONG*. The "problem" wasn't "perma-stealth rogues." I've chimed in countless times about this, yet have been constantly ignored.
THE PROBLEM IS THE RIDICULOUS *IMBALANCE* BETWEEN PARTY *GEAR SCORES*.
I quit playing PvP, even for the paltry AD you give, 'cos I'm constantly put up against a 5 man team using 12-13k gear and on a team with if they're lucky, *BROKEN* T1 gear they picked up using Glory. Most of the time, it's just blues and greens, though. 9.5k vs 12k. You do the math. Doesn't matter how "good" you are. You're gonna get killed, when you're fighting an entire GROUP with soulforged enchants, tenes, T3 armor they farmed or outright bought on the AH (something else you did to punish the "rest of us.") So, after this poor 9.5k team starts getting their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$es handed to them, by a completely OP group, due to *GEAR*, they start rage quitting, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the rest of their team.
It's not rocket science.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
It does seem really strange that an armorsmith can't make armor for other people to use. I mean, what if chefs could only cook for themselves? What'd be the point?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
They're being sold "en mass", 'cos you've NERFED every other possible way for a player to get AD other than through the precious Zen store by converting. I have a GF that's got an 19 in Mailsmithing and I'm screwed, 'cos I can't forge items to sell, as they're now "bind on pickup." You're creating all seal items as "bind on pickup" to keep people from selling those too. What is left to sell? Paltry green items that you have to undercut just to sell or farm the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of professional nodes and mobs to get enchants. Even the profession resources are cheap, 'cos that's all we have left to sell. I get you need money to survive, I've worked in the industry, but PREVENTING people from earning a decent amount of AD *WITHOUT* converting Zen is killing your company.
As for PvP, I don't even play a TR, but what you did, was *WRONG*. The "problem" wasn't "perma-stealth rogues." I've chimed in countless times about this, yet have been constantly ignored.
THE PROBLEM IS THE RIDICULOUS *IMBALANCE* BETWEEN PARTY *GEAR SCORES*.
I quit playing PvP, even for the paltry AD you give, 'cos I'm constantly put up against a 5 man team using 12-13k gear and on a team with if they're lucky, *BROKEN* T1 gear they picked up using Glory. Most of the time, it's just blues and greens, though. 9.5k vs 12k. You do the math. Doesn't matter how "good" you are. You're gonna get killed, when you're fighting an entire GROUP with soulforged enchants, tenes, T3 armor they farmed or outright bought on the AH (something else you did to punish the "rest of us.") So, after this poor 9.5k team starts getting their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$es handed to them, by a completely OP group, due to *GEAR*, they start rage quitting, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the rest of their team.
It's not rocket science.
This isn't the beginning of an attack, but I am curious to know if this is anecdotal evidence from your own experience, if so. This was exactly what was predicted early on in the open beta.
This isn't the beginning of an attack, but I am curious to know if this is anecdotal evidence from your own experience, if so. This was exactly what was predicted early on in the open beta.
I've been complaining about it, since open beta.......
It's not hard to add code that compares gear score by say +/- 300-500. If the team doesn't meet it, you don't play against them. Most of the time, you're playing with bots on a PUG, 'cos nobody wants to sit there and get stomped round after round by people using gear that's 3k higher than theirs. I've had some non "epic" gear teams that PWNED, but it's less than you think. If I'm getting popped, as a GF for 14-20k crits by a TR, then swarmed by the GWF for 8k hits, finally ensnared by the CW that can just keep spamming me, no amount of "skill" is gonna save me.
I'm stuck with the GF's broken gear. I didn't take the hint and buy the better stuff, when it was on the AH, at a low price, 'cos I wanted to EARN it, so I spent all my AD getting now useless blue and purple professionals, spending Zen on Asset packs, so I could make that money I spent back, somewhat. Now, I can't get into an epic dungeon, unless it's a PUG, but run into the same problem with rage quitters. Hell, my wife has seen me get kicked in PvP with the comment "Get rid of the GF. He's got broken gear", but they'll keep her, 'cos she's a TR.
Yes and sometimes, having less dps in a group is also a good way to make stuff dying quicker. It's like having a tank in a group (even a no dps tacician/protector one), you don't need it but when you've one you know it's going to be smoother, and faster. Stealth is far more powerful than raw dps.
If the game was all about dps, then teams of 5 rogues should rule the game. Obviously, it's not the case. Nothing will change.
If rogues were truly as OP as some claim, the ideal group comp for PVE or PVP would be 5 rogues. The fact that other classes being present allows a rogue to do his part for the team goes a long way to dispel the myth of how OP they are.
No. The primary role of a tank is to hold aggro so the other classes can stay alive, taking damage is how the tank stays alive while doing its job of pulling aggro off of the other classes. All classes can avoid damage, only a tank can hold aggro and survive.
Just because you can go toe-to-toe with a boss and survive doesn't make you a tank, what makes you a tank is keeping the boss from eating the cleric, which is something a stealthed rogue can't do.
And you're confusing aggro and tanking. Very different mechanics. But like i said, all classes have survivability tools. Rogues had too many, and could dps a lot and stay alive with stealth. This was too easy/powerful and had to be changed.
There were basically two ways to make effective changes: nerfing dps and keep survivability or nerf stealth to the ground to keep a top of the line dps. The dev team chose the first option. But you're free to ask for the second, of course.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
I've been complaining about it, since open beta.......
I don't understand why they don't simply have PvP broken down by GS... at level 60 you would have, say, under 6K, 6001 - 8K, 8001 - 9999, and 10K plus, or something.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
And you're confusing aggro and tanking. Very different mechanics. But like i said, all classes have survivability tools. Rogues had too many, and could dps a lot and stay alive with stealth. This was too easy/powerful and had to be changed.
rogues have exactly one that others dont have and that is stealth
Comments
Imo, rogues aren't really deadly, it's their 100 stuns which leave u defenseless. Without stun/daze the only kills they would be able to get is from ks'n other players. Other people may have different situations but the only time I die from rogues is when I'm stunned or lashed from behind while fighting somebody else.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
at least you agree that your last post was nonsense too
thats a step in the right direction
Say what now? Stuns? What? This is NW not WoW incase you missed something. They have 1 stun, that must be used from stealth and it barely has any duration. They have 3 daze, 1 which must be used from stealth, 1 AoE which is easy to avoid (dodge) and 1 other that is easy to avoid unless hes stealthed. They also occupy encounter spots that are better used on other things.
Only the first two are really worth it, but the first is mostly used as stealth is about to fall off, to refill it. If you wanna talk stuns you are talking about the wrong class. Stuns and prones come from GWF, GF and CW.
@Embracemysword: I dont think you have much of a clue. TRs have 2 dodges before having to wait on CD, if they pull of more than that they are specced in the top tree, atleast 15 point in if I remember right to get any form of refund/reduction on dodge. By doing so they are gimping their damage alot.
You answer to mine also brings no light, are you arguing that GWF and GF arent the two strongest PvP classes? Maybe you play one of those and get your hiney handed to you on a regular basis? I dont, I find both classes very strong when I play them, and I find them the easiest most careless classes to play. They are also the most annoying thing to face as a TR or CW.
I've stopped playing my DC in BGs, not due to rogues, but due to CWs and GFs. They either pull their Vader trick or give me an air tour of the BG while killing me. When I wanna stand in my circle, they just say no no no and place me outside it. Atleast vs a TR or GWF I can stand in my circle, vs a stealth TR it's even easier, because his ranged attack wont kill me while in circle, if he gets close I'll just divinity FMF him.
omg don't even mention gf or gwf stuns, those are by far worse. When I'm on my cw, most gwf's can takedown from a distance (even during dodge) and gf's with their warp across the map charge then chain prone 2 hit attack that have you juggling until you dead. But atleast you can see them and have a chance to counter lol
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
And if you cant see the rogue, he isnt using his CCs, so then whats the problem? Hard to toss down a AS and heal back while he wastes his stealth/throwing knives?
The thing is, even if you can see the GWF or GF, damaging them when they close in on you will either only upset the or have them raise their shield. Then suddenly they are in your face, beating you to pulp and you cant fend them off. They just have enough life/defensive CDs to not care while you try and hurt them.
Don't forget to add "ive no brain and think it's funny". Rogues have a lot of tanking: stealth and dodge. GWFs or CWs can indeed do a lot more damage, but taking an assassin can be a better option, just because this stealth tanking can be required to hit stuff more often. If you don't understand that, then, i suggest you get a brain.
another useless post so
Wow you really shot down my post didnt you??? NOT You take one line and try to use it in reference to making shoes. . Here is my original post in italics along with more of a response to you following.
It would also be nice if people like yourself quit pretending to know the internal structure of every company involved with MMO's. Regardless of how the various departments are structured and what their responsibilities are its safe to say there are ongoing issues that have not been solved. The management of the company that allocates resources to various functions is beyond remiss in understanding the voice of their customer. The management of the game DOES direct more attention to cash grab than it should with the current state of the game.
"I have two separate departments for the lab in my business. One group designs products while the other QC's the ongoing production of those products. As demand varies in each area we are capable of reallocating resource to whatever best serves our customers. In addition if need be we invest in overtime. You can drone on and on about how Cryptic is different than my business but you are wrong. There is no doubt that those who design new content and those who fix bugs are capable to work in either area. If they aren't then whoever did the hiring needs fired."
Now please if you are going to take the time to troll at least put some thought into it. Give me a solid reason that anything I have said is untrue. For the record we do not make shoes although that is irrelevant. There are somethings that are fundamental to success in business regardless of the product and market. Fundamentals like listening to the voice of your customer, insuring the rights resources and assets are in place to meet the current business needs and making changes as those needs change. During my management of company wide SAP implementations we had departments that did custom programming, configuration and debugging. While I knew nothing of ABAP programming I did insure the people we hired had cross functional capability. We shifted resource as needed to support the business and our customer needs. Our companies annual sales were $3 billion last year.
Bottom line is that Cryptic needs to do a better job of listening to its customers and managing their resources.
Just for clarification I have all classes @60 apart from GWF, I play them all in pvp, I don't see the reason to play pve , I had enough of dungeons and skirmishes leveling (seems like pve is loads hp. ten spells divided among 10 different mobs with around 20 different models/textures.
GWF (lvl 38 atm) I'm finding it hard to play as I dislike the play style, out of all the classes this one feels like the class is carrying me, it feels clumsy, an after thought if you will. as opposed to robust standalone class in comparison to the majority of the rest.
GF is a traditional rogue with a shield, if I have my daily up you can guarantee my opponent is dead, they are fun to play but a nightmare when playing against one. they would be my favorite class to play, not because of it being total easy mode(It is close) just because the level of control you have you dont get with any other class.(cw comes close)
Cw's are ok but they feel much weaker in comparison to the melee classes, you have to work twice as hard as melee to achieve the same outcome.
TR(easy mode) I've one shot every class while stealth/lurkers/lashing blade with a 9kgs, they do need a nerf for pvp but if these patch notes go ahead it would be overkill. Out of every class this one feels the most like a glass cannon/bazooka imo.
DC is a Frankenstein's monster of a class, you basically have two modes , the rubbish mode and the divine mode. Sounds good right? why not just use the good mode? well unfortunately to use the good mode you essentially use mana (pips) to get the good spells. when the pips(mana) is gone your almost a sitting duck to nearly all classes. don't get me wrong its enjoyable to play, its just personally I feel very frustrated because the class feels lacking.
Any way allowing to avoid damage is tanking. Sadly, another useless answer.
tank
Noun: A player-character, typically in a MMORPG, that is able to occupy an agressor and take the brunt of the aggressor's attacks while the other players deal damage, heal, or perform some other action. The "tank" can survive longer while taking damage than the other characters. Typically, the tank has higher hitpoints (health) and a higher armor rating than the other characters.
By your logic, all classes are tanks.
You can quote anything you like, you're confusing mitigation (taking damage) and tanking (any way to avoid taking damage). Mitigation is one form of tanking. There are others, like stealth and dodging. So, rogues are some of the tankiest characters, and do a lot of single target damage. They get a small nerf in one area. Not a big deal. If your rogue can't tank a boss (avoiding damage) then all your posts are meaningless anyway.
when you dont have aggro, you arent tanking
fact
when you stealth, you lose aggro, ergo you dont tank
but as said 2 posts above: all classes are tanks then thus your point is moot
Let's get back on track to the OP's message. I want to read about actual pros and cons to the changes. What I do NOT want to read is folks attacking each other on their opinions on what they feel will be the result of the new changes going live. We are better than this.
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In a way, yes, all class have some tanking, which is fortunate. Rogues, though, with perma stealth builds, could deal damage and tank anything. Now, they have to chose between taking and doing damage. This is indeed a nerf but definitely not a bad one.
This doesn't make sense. In my experience, "tanking" is where a member of a team draws enemy aggro, and thus also their damage. The thought being that the one doing this is better suited to withstand said damage, (typically by having heavier armor, hence the whole "tank" nomenclature). If you are stealthed, enemies don't aggro on you, thus you aren't drawing away their aggro and damage.
Now, a rogue using, for instance, smokebomb and/or a control-heavy build to keep enemies locked down, OTOH, *is* tanking, as they are both drawing enemy aggro and preventing said enemies from damaging teammates.
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No. The primary role of a tank is to hold aggro so the other classes can stay alive, taking damage is how the tank stays alive while doing its job of pulling aggro off of the other classes. All classes can avoid damage, only a tank can hold aggro and survive.
Just because you can go toe-to-toe with a boss and survive doesn't make you a tank, what makes you a tank is keeping the boss from eating the cleric, which is something a stealthed rogue can't do.
No that's CC, not tanking. The tank is there to deal with enemies that aren't locked down. If you can keep all of the enemies locked down then you don't need a tank, but that doesn't make you a tank.
That's an excellent point. Thanks for the correction.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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They're being sold "en mass", 'cos you've NERFED every other possible way for a player to get AD other than through the precious Zen store by converting. I have a GF that's got an 19 in Mailsmithing and I'm screwed, 'cos I can't forge items to sell, as they're now "bind on pickup." You're creating all seal items as "bind on pickup" to keep people from selling those too. What is left to sell? Paltry green items that you have to undercut just to sell or farm the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of professional nodes and mobs to get enchants. Even the profession resources are cheap, 'cos that's all we have left to sell. I get you need money to survive, I've worked in the industry, but PREVENTING people from earning a decent amount of AD *WITHOUT* converting Zen is killing your company.
As for PvP, I don't even play a TR, but what you did, was *WRONG*. The "problem" wasn't "perma-stealth rogues." I've chimed in countless times about this, yet have been constantly ignored.
THE PROBLEM IS THE RIDICULOUS *IMBALANCE* BETWEEN PARTY *GEAR SCORES*.
I quit playing PvP, even for the paltry AD you give, 'cos I'm constantly put up against a 5 man team using 12-13k gear and on a team with if they're lucky, *BROKEN* T1 gear they picked up using Glory. Most of the time, it's just blues and greens, though. 9.5k vs 12k. You do the math. Doesn't matter how "good" you are. You're gonna get killed, when you're fighting an entire GROUP with soulforged enchants, tenes, T3 armor they farmed or outright bought on the AH (something else you did to punish the "rest of us.") So, after this poor 9.5k team starts getting their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$es handed to them, by a completely OP group, due to *GEAR*, they start rage quitting, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the rest of their team.
It's not rocket science.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
This isn't the beginning of an attack, but I am curious to know if this is anecdotal evidence from your own experience, if so. This was exactly what was predicted early on in the open beta.
I've been complaining about it, since open beta.......
It's not hard to add code that compares gear score by say +/- 300-500. If the team doesn't meet it, you don't play against them. Most of the time, you're playing with bots on a PUG, 'cos nobody wants to sit there and get stomped round after round by people using gear that's 3k higher than theirs. I've had some non "epic" gear teams that PWNED, but it's less than you think. If I'm getting popped, as a GF for 14-20k crits by a TR, then swarmed by the GWF for 8k hits, finally ensnared by the CW that can just keep spamming me, no amount of "skill" is gonna save me.
I'm stuck with the GF's broken gear. I didn't take the hint and buy the better stuff, when it was on the AH, at a low price, 'cos I wanted to EARN it, so I spent all my AD getting now useless blue and purple professionals, spending Zen on Asset packs, so I could make that money I spent back, somewhat. Now, I can't get into an epic dungeon, unless it's a PUG, but run into the same problem with rage quitters. Hell, my wife has seen me get kicked in PvP with the comment "Get rid of the GF. He's got broken gear", but they'll keep her, 'cos she's a TR.
If rogues were truly as OP as some claim, the ideal group comp for PVE or PVP would be 5 rogues. The fact that other classes being present allows a rogue to do his part for the team goes a long way to dispel the myth of how OP they are.
And you're confusing aggro and tanking. Very different mechanics. But like i said, all classes have survivability tools. Rogues had too many, and could dps a lot and stay alive with stealth. This was too easy/powerful and had to be changed.
There were basically two ways to make effective changes: nerfing dps and keep survivability or nerf stealth to the ground to keep a top of the line dps. The dev team chose the first option. But you're free to ask for the second, of course.
I don't understand why they don't simply have PvP broken down by GS... at level 60 you would have, say, under 6K, 6001 - 8K, 8001 - 9999, and 10K plus, or something.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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now that this is taken away, they have none