The Drake Seal and PvP Gear changes will be fine if we get to see the salvager return. Both of those chages are overall good to prevent bots and generally to increase the demand on various gear in the auction house.
As for the rogue changes I am dancing for joy because those changes were desperately needed in PvP and I do mean desperately. Overall I don't think you'll notice huge issues in PvE based on what I read. The bulk of the changes will hurt perma-stealth builds but that build alone was pretty much a PvP only build and really wasn't that effective in PvE.
I am not saying it won't effect PvE but I'm hesitant to think it will do any massive changes to mechanics.
Enchantments aren't being duped. That's a completely different matter which has to be addressed but it's not merely a bug fix.
As for all of these other broken pieces of content, are you reporting them? I personally think this fixed many of the major issues which are truly bugs.
No. TR doesn't need the nerf in pvp. There just needs to be actually good and effective pvp gear. The gear you can buy now isn't really pvp gear. It's just gear to boost GS so you can do more epic dungeons. There are other games i play that have better pvp gear because the gear in those games give defense to certain things like daggers and what not.
The Drake Seal and PvP Gear changes will be fine if we get to see the salvager return. Both of those chages are overall good to prevent bots and generally to increase the demand on various gear in the auction house.
As for the rogue changes I am dancing for joy because those changes were desperately needed in PvP and I do mean desperately. Overall I don't think you'll notice huge issues in PvE based on what I read. The bulk of the changes will hurt perma-stealth builds but that build alone was pretty much a PvP only build and really wasn't that effective in PvE.
I am not saying it won't effect PvE but I'm hesitant to think it will do any massive changes to mechanics.
Enchantments aren't being duped. That's a completely different matter which has to be addressed but it's not merely a bug fix.
As for all of these other broken pieces of content, are you reporting them? I personally think this fixed many of the major issues which are truly bugs.
And you see no issues with GF and GWF in PvP? The Rogue is good at killing 2 classes, CWs and DCs, and thats CWs that dont know how to play their class. Pin that same TR vs a GWF or GF and he will dirtnap in seconds.
Your overall thoughts about how it will effect pve or other specs I take with a grain of salt. You are a community mod, thats it, you dont have enough inside knowledge about whats being done to hold any real credibility when it comes to changes. And as a mod I find it quite unprofessional to "dance for joy" because the changes to the TR were "desperately needed"
Only class that would have a right to cry out about nerfing other classes would be the DC. It's in a bad shape, the punching bag in BGs. The rest have their bane, GFs and GWFs could use a slight nerf. But CW and TR are fine as it is. Or heck, just remove the +stealth 4 set bonus and add some other bonus there.
Sorry to say it, but after reading your other post, I have to say you are full of it. You faced a perma stealth rogue while playing your 50(!!!) GF??? I call bull on that. He might have pulled of what seemed to be perma stealth with LA up, but thats a freaking daily he had to use. You also claim they are uncounterable, even more bull. A GWF or a GF with the same skill as the TR will pulverize them with their eyes closed.
Full perma stealth doesnt come before you have high enough recovery, the right gear, the right spec and the right encounters.
But hey, I guess I'll just keep playing my, GF or GWF and faceroll PvP.
You also keep rambling about how "if you qwere on your DC main you would have died in seconds". Newsflash mr. mod, DCs die in seconds to any class, it's not a TR issue.
GWF: Takedown, Flourish, Resto Strike = Most likely dead DC.
GF: BS, LS, FLS or KC, BS, LS = dead DC.
CW: IC, Entagle, Efeeble, at-will = dead DC.
So it's not a TR issue. TR vs CW as I said is even, you issue is that you are a DC.
I understand the stupidity at level 60 pvp has to be addressed, however, pre-level cap I have seen clerics outheal 2 or 3 players beating on them, and the pitiful damage a stealth rogue can do (without powerful enchants) is laughable.
The issue is not with the build, it is with the damage scaling at level cap. I am sad that a fun to play build (at least pre-level cap) has been nerfed to the point of utter loss in viability, instead of the main issue of damage scaling at level cap and the way enchants work being adjusted.
By your own standard of "needing a handful of people just to take down one person" being a problem, I think the spotlight should be on other classes; and will probably shift there, or perhaps other rogue builds will be stamped out first.
My god. Someone has saw the light. I thought I was the only one that sees this. Pvp at 60 is just god awful. And every change they make further screws everything below level 60. As every change they made to date was based upon level 60 pvp and pve.
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millertime197933Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 124Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Everyone who is excited about rogues getting the nerf are gonna be sorely disappointed when they log into PVP and still get owned by rogues. Cloud of steel wont break stealth, it will only take some off your stealth bar. You never needed a lot of stealth, or a lot of time to exhaust your cloud of steel daggers and then launch shadow strike, which not only refreshes their stealth bar, but also dazed you. While dazed, a rogue will close and then use their boomers to finish you. So CWs and DCs, you have nothing to rejoice for. For the GWFs and GFs out there, the rogue will still just be annoying to you as you try to chase them around. They wont attack you, they'll just run around stealthed to avoid your node from getting points. This is just gonna push more rogues into the scoundrel tree, which I found much more success with in PVP due to enhanced damage for sly flourish and cloud of steel, and also the capstone feat for it that increases encounter power by 15% after stealth ends. So basically all of you are gonna QQ over getting one shot by lashing blade the same way you did with executioner's strike. Only lashing is an encounter with no wind up like executioner so you will see it much more frequently. The TR by design is about single target DPS, and single target DPS is what PVP is all about. Unless you scrap the intent of the class, they are always gonna be strong in PVP, but play your class well and they won't be impossible. I have had problems killing clerics and wizards before as long as they kept moving. It is really hard to kill a cleric who is healing themselves and has dmg mitigation, even if its only 40%. You eventually have to close and use your hard hitters. CWs are a little softer but they can teleport away three times and be well out of range. Also the moment they catch a glimpse of you, that ice knife is a one shot killer for a rogue. And yeah, gear makes a difference too.
The only true effect of this nerf is that rogues in PVE lost a bunch of damage from lurker's assault, so much so that lurkers is less powerful than most encounter powers are now. Even shocking execution was only as good as a really good hit from the lashing blade encounter.
And you see no issues with GF and GWF in PvP? The Rogue is good at killing 2 classes, CWs and DCs, and thats CWs that dont know how to play their class. Pin that same TR vs a GWF or GF and he will dirtnap in seconds.
Your overall thoughts about how it will effect pve or other specs I take with a grain of salt. You are a community mod, thats it, you dont have enough inside knowledge about whats being done to hold any real credibility when it comes to changes. And as a mod I find it quite unprofessional to "dance for joy" because the changes to the TR were "desperately needed"
Only class that would have a right to cry out about nerfing other classes would be the DC. It's in a bad shape, the punching bag in BGs. The rest have their bane, GFs and GWFs could use a slight nerf. But CW and TR are fine as it is. Or heck, just remove the +stealth 4 set bonus and add some other bonus there.
Sorry to say it, but after reading your other post, I have to say you are full of it. You faced a perma stealth rogue while playing your 50(!!!) GF??? I call bull on that. He might have pulled of what seemed to be perma stealth with LA up, but thats a freaking daily he had to use. You also claim they are uncounterable, even more bull. A GWF or a GF with the same skill as the TR will pulverize them with their eyes closed.
Full perma stealth doesnt come before you have high enough recovery, the right gear, the right spec and the right encounters.
But hey, I guess I'll just keep playing my, GF or GWF and faceroll PvP.
You also keep rambling about how "if you qwere on your DC main you would have died in seconds". Newsflash mr. mod, DCs die in seconds to any class, it's not a TR issue.
GWF: Takedown, Flourish, Resto Strike = Most likely dead DC.
GF: BS, LS, FLS or KC, BS, LS = dead DC.
CW: IC, Entagle, Efeeble, at-will = dead DC.
So it's not a TR issue. TR vs CW as I said is even, you issue is that you are a DC.
^ This. And that. And that. And.. all of it really. Could not have said it better myself.
The Drake Seal and PvP Gear changes will be fine if we get to see the salvager return. Both of those chages are overall good to prevent bots and generally to increase the demand on various gear in the auction house.
As for the rogue changes I am dancing for joy because those changes were desperately needed in PvP and I do mean desperately. Overall I don't think you'll notice huge issues in PvE based on what I read. The bulk of the changes will hurt perma-stealth builds but that build alone was pretty much a PvP only build and really wasn't that effective in PvE.
I am not saying it won't effect PvE but I'm hesitant to think it will do any massive changes to mechanics.
Enchantments aren't being duped. That's a completely different matter which has to be addressed but it's not merely a bug fix.
As for all of these other broken pieces of content, are you reporting them? I personally think this fixed many of the major issues which are truly bugs.
I mostly agree about the salvager.
But you don't understand the grief about pve: perma stealth builds are used by exploiters. If it is fixed (and i clearly doubt it is, i'm waiting for the changes to go live to see it), then people will have to do almost normal castle never runs. And that will make a lot of them angry, since they won't be able to farm and devalue ancient gear without any effort.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I understand the stupidity at level 60 pvp has to be addressed, however, pre-level cap I have seen clerics outheal 2 or 3 players beating on them, and the pitiful damage a stealth rogue can do (without powerful enchants) is laughable.
The issue is not with the build, it is with the damage scaling at level cap. I am sad that a fun to play build (at least pre-level cap) has been nerfed to the point of utter loss in viability, instead of the main issue of damage scaling at level cap and the way enchants work being adjusted.
By your own standard of "needing a handful of people just to take down one person" being a problem, I think the spotlight should be on other classes; and will probably shift there, or perhaps other rogue builds will be stamped out first.
Probably the best thing i've read so far. Makes a lot of sense.
The entire permastealth thing reminds me of shadowdancers in NWN1 - completely abused with little to no counter whatsoever. Why there is even a debate about how overpowered this is....
The entire permastealth thing reminds me of shadowdancers in NWN1 - completely abused with little to no counter whatsoever. Why there is even a debate about how overpowered this is....
There is a counter, theres tons of counters. I dont even pay attention to guides and I know how to counter a perma stealth rogue.
of course thats in pre level 60 pvp. Level 60 pvp there is significantly less. Because level 60 pvp is just god awful in balance, bu thats not an excuse to wreck every rogue in existance because of fail level cap pvp.
And you see no issues with GF and GWF in PvP? The Rogue is good at killing 2 classes, CWs and DCs, and thats CWs that dont know how to play their class. Pin that same TR vs a GWF or GF and he will dirtnap in seconds.
Your overall thoughts about how it will effect pve or other specs I take with a grain of salt. You are a community mod, thats it, you dont have enough inside knowledge about whats being done to hold any real credibility when it comes to changes. And as a mod I find it quite unprofessional to "dance for joy" because the changes to the TR were "desperately needed"
Only class that would have a right to cry out about nerfing other classes would be the DC. It's in a bad shape, the punching bag in BGs. The rest have their bane, GFs and GWFs could use a slight nerf. But CW and TR are fine as it is. Or heck, just remove the +stealth 4 set bonus and add some other bonus there.
Sorry to say it, but after reading your other post, I have to say you are full of it. You faced a perma stealth rogue while playing your 50(!!!) GF??? I call bull on that. He might have pulled of what seemed to be perma stealth with LA up, but thats a freaking daily he had to use. You also claim they are uncounterable, even more bull. A GWF or a GF with the same skill as the TR will pulverize them with their eyes closed.
Full perma stealth doesnt come before you have high enough recovery, the right gear, the right spec and the right encounters.
But hey, I guess I'll just keep playing my, GF or GWF and faceroll PvP.
You also keep rambling about how "if you qwere on your DC main you would have died in seconds". Newsflash mr. mod, DCs die in seconds to any class, it's not a TR issue.
GWF: Takedown, Flourish, Resto Strike = Most likely dead DC.
GF: BS, LS, FLS or KC, BS, LS = dead DC.
CW: IC, Entagle, Efeeble, at-will = dead DC.
So it's not a TR issue. TR vs CW as I said is even, you issue is that you are a DC.
Really? I'm a dc and the only time I die in seconds from a gf is if he spam his prone skills. I have never died in seconds from fighting a cw or gwf. The only time you die in seconds is if they ALL attack you at once. But fighting a tr when you're a dc is futile because 1. you can't see them 2. only time you know they there is AFTER they already dazed/lashed you and you have 20% health left and they dagger you to death as you try to walk away because you cant dash, run or use skills. So maybe PLAY a dc before you make dumb comments like this.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
As for the rogue changes I am dancing for joy because those changes were desperately needed in PvP and I do mean desperately. Overall I don't think you'll notice huge issues in PvE based on what I read. The bulk of the changes will hurt perma-stealth builds but that build alone was pretty much a PvP only build and really wasn't that effective in PvE.
I am not saying it won't effect PvE but I'm hesitant to think it will do any massive changes to mechanics.
You're so wrong about this. I don't PvP, but I was so enjoying my TR on his way to perma-stealth with the goal of soloing dungeons. Now I don't know if this is going to be feasible at all, which makes me incredibly sad. I like exploring the dungeons, and it's really hard to get people together who don't just want to beeline it for the boss.
And you see no issues with GF and GWF in PvP? The Rogue is good at killing 2 classes, CWs and DCs, and thats CWs that dont know how to play their class. Pin that same TR vs a GWF or GF and he will dirtnap in seconds.
Your overall thoughts about how it will effect pve or other specs I take with a grain of salt. You are a community mod, thats it, you dont have enough inside knowledge about whats being done to hold any real credibility when it comes to changes. And as a mod I find it quite unprofessional to "dance for joy" because the changes to the TR were "desperately needed"
Only class that would have a right to cry out about nerfing other classes would be the DC. It's in a bad shape, the punching bag in BGs. The rest have their bane, GFs and GWFs could use a slight nerf. But CW and TR are fine as it is. Or heck, just remove the +stealth 4 set bonus and add some other bonus there.
Sorry to say it, but after reading your other post, I have to say you are full of it. You faced a perma stealth rogue while playing your 50(!!!) GF??? I call bull on that. He might have pulled of what seemed to be perma stealth with LA up, but thats a freaking daily he had to use. You also claim they are uncounterable, even more bull. A GWF or a GF with the same skill as the TR will pulverize them with their eyes closed.
Full perma stealth doesnt come before you have high enough recovery, the right gear, the right spec and the right encounters.
But hey, I guess I'll just keep playing my, GF or GWF and faceroll PvP.
You also keep rambling about how "if you qwere on your DC main you would have died in seconds". Newsflash mr. mod, DCs die in seconds to any class, it's not a TR issue.
GWF: Takedown, Flourish, Resto Strike = Most likely dead DC.
GF: BS, LS, FLS or KC, BS, LS = dead DC.
CW: IC, Entagle, Efeeble, at-will = dead DC.
So it's not a TR issue. TR vs CW as I said is even, you issue is that you are a DC.
Yeah I always thought this game's PvP was a rock/paper/scissor system. If someone thinks PvP should be balanced so that all classes are even against one another, then you might be waiting a long time for that kind of balance.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2013
Just a note on the complaints about item duping, it makes absolutely no sense at all that anyone would be duping rank 4-5 enchants and not duping the rank 6-7 ones, or even more valuable items. You can loot the 4-5s from high-level nodes. Not so with the higher ones. Therefore, if you actually view the issue logically, it appears to be a botting exploit, not a duping exploit.
so most of the broken, not working as intended or just plain not working at all, feats are finally going to be fixed ?? amazing news, but only a month or two too late.
Does this mean we will be receiving a free respec token ? as many many players were forced into feat choices based on what actually worked and not what they actually wanted to use, this a game fault and your fault, NOT the players.
Or are we the players going to be actually expected to pay for re-specs our selves ?
You can not go and change feats that did'nt work or heavly nerf feats that do and then expect the players them selves to fund out of there own pockets to to compensate for the changes you make on the fly, this is a con...
major changes to in game mechanics are way out of the players control and in no way shape or form should the players be expected to pay out to adjust to these changes.
If this happens it would be majorly unfair, it would be ok for new players obviously but the main core player base, who most have been here since pre launch etc and already have multiple lvl 60 characters are going to be hit realy hard, These are the loyal players many been involved in testing etc these are the players also that most have already invested alot of real money into this game, these are the players that have been paying YOUR wages for the past few months. and you going to do this to them ???
Really? I'm a dc and the only time I die in seconds from a gf is if he spam his prone skills. I have never died in seconds from fighting a cw or gwf. The only time you die in seconds is if they ALL attack you at once. But fighting a tr when you're a dc is futile because 1. you can't see them 2. only time you know they there is AFTER they already dazed/lashed you and you have 20% health left and they dagger you to death as you try to walk away because you cant dash, run or use skills. So maybe PLAY a dc before you make dumb comments like this.
I'd have to agree with the other guy. As a Gwf. I can almost kill a DC in seconds. The fact TR can is simply because they are the dedicated damage guys. CW cannot kill a DC in seconds but they most definitly can kill a DC. Much of thier attacks are control rather than pure damage, and they prevent a DC from recovering substantially because of it.
So you may not die from a CW in seconds. A DC will die from a CW, because a CW is not completely damage focused as a rogue is. A GF that uses that prone combo can kill most classes if they manage to pull it off.
As the guy you quoted said, Its not a TR issue, its the issue of a DC.
Also I'd like to add again, the problem becomes more relevant at level 60+ (as most of these pvp issues exist in ). Fighting a DC pre-level 60 is much more tougher for all classes.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited July 2013
If the new changes go live, X class will be broken beyond repair.
If the new changes go live, I will stop playing.
If the new changes go live, the game is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED.
If the new changes go live, the sky will fall.
If the new changes go live, 99% of the player base will stop playing.
If the new changes go live, Lenin will rise from the grave to lead an army of undead child-eating communists.
If the new changes go live, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga e Psy will make a new album together.
If the new changes go live, X class will be broken beyond repair.
If the new changes go live, I will stop playing.
If the new changes go live, the game is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED.
If the new changes go live, the sky will fall.
If the new changes go live, 99% of the player base will stop playing.
If the new changes go live, Lenin will rise from the grave to lead an army of undead child-eating communists.
If the new changes go live, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga e Psy will make a new album together.
:rolleyes:
/bender
But yes, it is a very imbalanced patch nonetheless.
As someone who plays a TR main, yet has never PVP'd in this game, I am concerned with these patch notes. I understand that the perma-stealth build is thought to be OP by some (and vigorously defended by others), but to me all this represents is another PVE nerf to satisfy the unsatisfiable PVP crowd. This is a slippery slope, from a design perspective, IMHO.
To significantly reduce the effectiveness of what was the only worthwhile daily in the TR arsenal, as well as completely change the concept of the class by making at-wills reduce the stealth meter seems a very drastic manner of dealing with one arguably problematic build. If these constant changes are going to keep being made in the name of some elusive PVP "balance", please develop a system where there are separate PVP and PVE abilities. Or, have the various changes implemented in the name of this theoretical balance only affect PVP or PVE, not both.
Personally, I'm getting tired of having to pay for a respec every time some PVPers complain.
You're so wrong about this. I don't PvP, but I was so enjoying my TR on his way to perma-stealth with the goal of soloing dungeons. Now I don't know if this is going to be feasible at all, which makes me incredibly sad. I like exploring the dungeons, and it's really hard to get people together who don't just want to beeline it for the boss.
For some reason, people also assert that being able to permastealth kill bosses isn't an exploit, too. Heaven forefend.
With regard to the barbs flying about in the rest of the thread about "complainers", "whiners" and the like- it seems like nothing complains like the chorus of TRs who fear the loss of their faceroll mode.
It will be interesting to see if Cryptic have the cojones to go through it, as the whinestorm is deafening, but they have an opportunity to actually fix something for once.
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited July 2013
What pvpers want is "perfect" balance.
So remove pvp for all classes and add a pvp class&race with locked skills and stats. Then everyone is on an even playing ground and us pve players can finally enjoy the game.
Thanks to your dumb whining we now have the only good Rogue daily nerfed into the ground and boss fights, which are already tedious, will take even longer.
Just a note on the complaints about item duping, it makes absolutely no sense at all that anyone would be duping rank 4-5 enchants and not duping the rank 6-7 ones, or even more valuable items. You can loot the 4-5s from high-level nodes. Not so with the higher ones. Therefore, if you actually view the issue logically, it appears to be a botting exploit, not a duping exploit.
It works with rank 4 and 5, not people are choosing not to do with with higher ranks.
Anything which can't be countered in some way by two classes is a major problem. Needing a handful of people just to take down one person because of all the evasion they have is a problem. It all drastically upsets the balance of the game.
It works with rank 4 and 5, not people are choosing not to do with with higher ranks.
How, pray tell, would it even be possible to dupe two types of a specific category of item and not have it work on others? Especially while the giant stacks of crafting materials for sale are also logically explained as overage from botting as well.
I realize you can't and shouldn't publicly explain exactly how any exploit works, but this doesn't even make sense. Anyway, as long as you've submitted a bug report carefully explaining the specifics of how the dupe exploit works so it can be tested and replicated, I suppose you've done all you can.
It just doesn't make sense to me that some items can be duped and others can't.
How, pray tell, would it even be possible to dupe two types of a specific category of item and not have it work on others? Especially while the giant stacks of crafting materials for sale are also logically explained as overage from botting as well.
I realize you can't and shouldn't publicly explain exactly how any exploit works, but this doesn't even make sense. Anyway, as long as you've submitted a bug report carefully explaining the specifics of how the dupe exploit works so it can be tested and replicated, I suppose you've done all you can.
It just doesn't make sense to me that some items can be duped and others can't.
Could just be a specific problem with the coding of the rank 4 and 5. That's my guest.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
For some reason, people also assert that being able to permastealth kill bosses isn't an exploit, too. Heaven forefend.
With regard to the barbs flying about in the rest of the thread about "complainers", "whiners" and the like- it seems like nothing complains like the chorus of TRs who fear the loss of their faceroll mode.
It will be interesting to see if Cryptic have the cojones to go through it, as the whinestorm is deafening, but they have an opportunity to actually fix something for once.
Considering that it's not easy to solo these bosses, and takes a lot of time and patience... and even skill, it was a personal challenge goal, not something I was intending to do so I could get all the phat lewts and resell them for a fortune (I don't think any of the guaranteed drops from normal dungeons are worth squat anyway because so many people have them for sale already).
Not really seeing how much gain there is from "exploitative" soloing of dungeon bosses. Seems like just something to do for fun and challenge.
Could just be a specific problem with the coding of the rank 4 and 5. That's my guest.
But you can get them from skill nodes. Bots farm skill nodes. This is known. If you're looking in the AH for the giant stacks of rank 4 and 5 enchants, sold by obvious bot-names, you can see the same with the higher tier crafting materials. Same names, even. Looking right now, one that I saw selling large stacks of enchants on the weekend (all gone atm) has numerous 999 stacks of exotic pelts, mithral ore, etc.
Edit: The enchants get broken down into smaller stacks of 10-12 mostly, but people aren't complaining as much about the crafting materials, so those still get posted in maximum quantities.
So remove pvp for all classes and add a pvp class&race with locked skills and stats. Then everyone is on an even playing ground and us pve players can finally enjoy the game.
What a wonderful idea! I wholeheartedly support it!
A race and class just for PvP, so the rest of us can play our classes without interference from the PvP crowd. Brilliant idea!
What a wonderful idea! I wholeheartedly support it!
A race and class just for PvP, so the rest of us can play our classes without interference from the PvP crowd. Brilliant idea!
Ah yes, the PVE people have spoken. The PvP crowd just ruins MMOs...o wait, they actually make them legit? Hmm, or was the 10k prizes I've seen given to PVP tournament winners really meant for the people who can avoid red circles and slay pixel dragons before the next group who spent 10 hours wiping? hmmmm....
Comments
No. TR doesn't need the nerf in pvp. There just needs to be actually good and effective pvp gear. The gear you can buy now isn't really pvp gear. It's just gear to boost GS so you can do more epic dungeons. There are other games i play that have better pvp gear because the gear in those games give defense to certain things like daggers and what not.
rofl..........
And you see no issues with GF and GWF in PvP? The Rogue is good at killing 2 classes, CWs and DCs, and thats CWs that dont know how to play their class. Pin that same TR vs a GWF or GF and he will dirtnap in seconds.
Your overall thoughts about how it will effect pve or other specs I take with a grain of salt. You are a community mod, thats it, you dont have enough inside knowledge about whats being done to hold any real credibility when it comes to changes. And as a mod I find it quite unprofessional to "dance for joy" because the changes to the TR were "desperately needed"
Only class that would have a right to cry out about nerfing other classes would be the DC. It's in a bad shape, the punching bag in BGs. The rest have their bane, GFs and GWFs could use a slight nerf. But CW and TR are fine as it is. Or heck, just remove the +stealth 4 set bonus and add some other bonus there.
Sorry to say it, but after reading your other post, I have to say you are full of it. You faced a perma stealth rogue while playing your 50(!!!) GF??? I call bull on that. He might have pulled of what seemed to be perma stealth with LA up, but thats a freaking daily he had to use. You also claim they are uncounterable, even more bull. A GWF or a GF with the same skill as the TR will pulverize them with their eyes closed.
Full perma stealth doesnt come before you have high enough recovery, the right gear, the right spec and the right encounters.
But hey, I guess I'll just keep playing my, GF or GWF and faceroll PvP.
You also keep rambling about how "if you qwere on your DC main you would have died in seconds". Newsflash mr. mod, DCs die in seconds to any class, it's not a TR issue.
GWF: Takedown, Flourish, Resto Strike = Most likely dead DC.
GF: BS, LS, FLS or KC, BS, LS = dead DC.
CW: IC, Entagle, Efeeble, at-will = dead DC.
So it's not a TR issue. TR vs CW as I said is even, you issue is that you are a DC.
My god. Someone has saw the light. I thought I was the only one that sees this. Pvp at 60 is just god awful. And every change they make further screws everything below level 60. As every change they made to date was based upon level 60 pvp and pve.
The only true effect of this nerf is that rogues in PVE lost a bunch of damage from lurker's assault, so much so that lurkers is less powerful than most encounter powers are now. Even shocking execution was only as good as a really good hit from the lashing blade encounter.
^ This. And that. And that. And.. all of it really. Could not have said it better myself.
I mostly agree about the salvager.
But you don't understand the grief about pve: perma stealth builds are used by exploiters. If it is fixed (and i clearly doubt it is, i'm waiting for the changes to go live to see it), then people will have to do almost normal castle never runs. And that will make a lot of them angry, since they won't be able to farm and devalue ancient gear without any effort.
Probably the best thing i've read so far. Makes a lot of sense.
There is a counter, theres tons of counters. I dont even pay attention to guides and I know how to counter a perma stealth rogue.
of course thats in pre level 60 pvp. Level 60 pvp there is significantly less. Because level 60 pvp is just god awful in balance, bu thats not an excuse to wreck every rogue in existance because of fail level cap pvp.
Really? I'm a dc and the only time I die in seconds from a gf is if he spam his prone skills. I have never died in seconds from fighting a cw or gwf. The only time you die in seconds is if they ALL attack you at once. But fighting a tr when you're a dc is futile because 1. you can't see them 2. only time you know they there is AFTER they already dazed/lashed you and you have 20% health left and they dagger you to death as you try to walk away because you cant dash, run or use skills. So maybe PLAY a dc before you make dumb comments like this.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
You're so wrong about this. I don't PvP, but I was so enjoying my TR on his way to perma-stealth with the goal of soloing dungeons. Now I don't know if this is going to be feasible at all, which makes me incredibly sad. I like exploring the dungeons, and it's really hard to get people together who don't just want to beeline it for the boss.
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Yeah I always thought this game's PvP was a rock/paper/scissor system. If someone thinks PvP should be balanced so that all classes are even against one another, then you might be waiting a long time for that kind of balance.
@headlesshorseman
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Does this mean we will be receiving a free respec token ? as many many players were forced into feat choices based on what actually worked and not what they actually wanted to use, this a game fault and your fault, NOT the players.
Or are we the players going to be actually expected to pay for re-specs our selves ?
You can not go and change feats that did'nt work or heavly nerf feats that do and then expect the players them selves to fund out of there own pockets to to compensate for the changes you make on the fly, this is a con...
major changes to in game mechanics are way out of the players control and in no way shape or form should the players be expected to pay out to adjust to these changes.
If this happens it would be majorly unfair, it would be ok for new players obviously but the main core player base, who most have been here since pre launch etc and already have multiple lvl 60 characters are going to be hit realy hard, These are the loyal players many been involved in testing etc these are the players also that most have already invested alot of real money into this game, these are the players that have been paying YOUR wages for the past few months. and you going to do this to them ???
I'd have to agree with the other guy. As a Gwf. I can almost kill a DC in seconds. The fact TR can is simply because they are the dedicated damage guys. CW cannot kill a DC in seconds but they most definitly can kill a DC. Much of thier attacks are control rather than pure damage, and they prevent a DC from recovering substantially because of it.
So you may not die from a CW in seconds. A DC will die from a CW, because a CW is not completely damage focused as a rogue is. A GF that uses that prone combo can kill most classes if they manage to pull it off.
As the guy you quoted said, Its not a TR issue, its the issue of a DC.
Also I'd like to add again, the problem becomes more relevant at level 60+ (as most of these pvp issues exist in ). Fighting a DC pre-level 60 is much more tougher for all classes.
If the new changes go live, I will stop playing.
If the new changes go live, the game is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED.
If the new changes go live, the sky will fall.
If the new changes go live, 99% of the player base will stop playing.
If the new changes go live, Lenin will rise from the grave to lead an army of undead child-eating communists.
If the new changes go live, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga e Psy will make a new album together.
:rolleyes:
/bender
But yes, it is a very imbalanced patch nonetheless.
To significantly reduce the effectiveness of what was the only worthwhile daily in the TR arsenal, as well as completely change the concept of the class by making at-wills reduce the stealth meter seems a very drastic manner of dealing with one arguably problematic build. If these constant changes are going to keep being made in the name of some elusive PVP "balance", please develop a system where there are separate PVP and PVE abilities. Or, have the various changes implemented in the name of this theoretical balance only affect PVP or PVE, not both.
Personally, I'm getting tired of having to pay for a respec every time some PVPers complain.
For some reason, people also assert that being able to permastealth kill bosses isn't an exploit, too. Heaven forefend.
With regard to the barbs flying about in the rest of the thread about "complainers", "whiners" and the like- it seems like nothing complains like the chorus of TRs who fear the loss of their faceroll mode.
It will be interesting to see if Cryptic have the cojones to go through it, as the whinestorm is deafening, but they have an opportunity to actually fix something for once.
So remove pvp for all classes and add a pvp class&race with locked skills and stats. Then everyone is on an even playing ground and us pve players can finally enjoy the game.
Thanks to your dumb whining we now have the only good Rogue daily nerfed into the ground and boss fights, which are already tedious, will take even longer.
It works with rank 4 and 5, not people are choosing not to do with with higher ranks.
Never came across this then, have you?
And everything else you said applies a lot more to GF's and Sentinel GWF's.
Or can you enlighten us how to counter that 3hit stunlock combo of a GF?
"The main point is that the rogue was, for all intensive purposes, invulnerable 100% of the time."
You sir, are very, very wrong.
How, pray tell, would it even be possible to dupe two types of a specific category of item and not have it work on others? Especially while the giant stacks of crafting materials for sale are also logically explained as overage from botting as well.
I realize you can't and shouldn't publicly explain exactly how any exploit works, but this doesn't even make sense. Anyway, as long as you've submitted a bug report carefully explaining the specifics of how the dupe exploit works so it can be tested and replicated, I suppose you've done all you can.
It just doesn't make sense to me that some items can be duped and others can't.
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Could just be a specific problem with the coding of the rank 4 and 5. That's my guest.
Considering that it's not easy to solo these bosses, and takes a lot of time and patience... and even skill, it was a personal challenge goal, not something I was intending to do so I could get all the phat lewts and resell them for a fortune (I don't think any of the guaranteed drops from normal dungeons are worth squat anyway because so many people have them for sale already).
Not really seeing how much gain there is from "exploitative" soloing of dungeon bosses. Seems like just something to do for fun and challenge.
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But you can get them from skill nodes. Bots farm skill nodes. This is known. If you're looking in the AH for the giant stacks of rank 4 and 5 enchants, sold by obvious bot-names, you can see the same with the higher tier crafting materials. Same names, even. Looking right now, one that I saw selling large stacks of enchants on the weekend (all gone atm) has numerous 999 stacks of exotic pelts, mithral ore, etc.
Edit: The enchants get broken down into smaller stacks of 10-12 mostly, but people aren't complaining as much about the crafting materials, so those still get posted in maximum quantities.
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What a wonderful idea! I wholeheartedly support it!
A race and class just for PvP, so the rest of us can play our classes without interference from the PvP crowd. Brilliant idea!
Ah yes, the PVE people have spoken. The PvP crowd just ruins MMOs...o wait, they actually make them legit? Hmm, or was the 10k prizes I've seen given to PVP tournament winners really meant for the people who can avoid red circles and slay pixel dragons before the next group who spent 10 hours wiping? hmmmm....