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Patch Notes: NW.5.20130714b.3

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  • mitsubishimitsubishi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Okay, are they trying to make TR the old GWF? Useless? Wow. We'll no longer have any Dailies worth using. Guess I can ditch the Recovery.
  • dreamhuntressxdreamhuntressx Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It's been a while since i've played NW and when i come back is too see a TR DAILY turned into a GWF FEAT? REALLY? *off for a few more days...*
    Leanan Sidhe (not "The Dresde Files" fairy!) - NW Legit Channel Moderator
  • cyberdoxcyberdox Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    I think by that you mean Conquerors cannot keep aggro, as in terrible GF's that have turned themselves into inferior versions of GWF.

    Any decent tank has no problem taking aggro with not but the Tab ability.
    cinj216 wrote: »
    Funny, because I don't see any feat in the other trees that gives this significant aggro increase that people claim non-Conquerors have. Now if you simply said terrible GF's without any emphasis on build, I would be inclined to agree with you.

    Ranncore, have you even tryed playing a GF?
    first off, Tab only taunts 1 add. 1 add is never a problem, nether is 1 boss. the problem is when there is alot of adds.
    at first the only way i could gain agro off anything was to use the at-will taunt, however when there is more than 10 adds, it becomes very hard to gain agro off all of them though placing my mark on them. now that i have a full set of Timeless hero, my damage output with Conquerors spec is the only thing that lets me gain agro from everything though the use of villances menace daily, and if i didn't have Conquerors spec, everything will just ingnor me due to the shty agro system.
  • balthezar2balthezar2 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Almost all of my chars are TR, I'm waiting for the server to come back up and see how badly it effects me to judge, but if it's as bad as it looks, I prob won't play as much until maybe when they come out with a ranger. There's always NWN and NWN2 to fall back on.

    oh, and I don't really care for PvP, so don't ruin it for PVE.
  • shuy1shuy1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't play a TR but the TR nerfs are HUGE.

    Make it 15/30/45% to Crit severity instead of the 60% they have now.

    And why would any at-will deplete the stealth meter? Stop nerfing rogues because of PVP. If you want balance in PVP, fix that DON'T NERF TRs anymore.

    This should not go live in this state. Making a whole class sub-par is a good way to kill a game.
  • dopeboiidopeboii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'd rather they nerf Lurker's Assault (mainly for PvP balance; killing 4 people in 4-8 seconds with lurkers up is beyond broken) and rebuff DF to compensate TRs in PvE.


    I'm pretty disappointed that DC/CWs didn't receive any small buffs (mainly for PvP) and that there were no nerfs to GWF survivability (again, mainly for PvP balance).

    I also wouldn't mind seeing the tenebrous proc damage being turned into a 3/6/9 second dot (based on rank) to help balance their absurd burst potential in PvP without changing their sustained damage.


    I'd rather they make two different Skill Tables for PvP/PvE. Because obviously with your line of reasoning, it's "beyond broken" to somehow maintain DPS as a DPS Class on Bosses that have more than your average 30-35k HP from Players. (Lol, I'm not sure if you PvE, but Bosses don't drop in 1-2 hits.)

    With this post though, don't look at it as me saying "it's not broken" because as you've mentioned, in PvP it may indeed be broken. This line of reasoning doesn't really equate to being optimal as PvP =/= PvE. As I've stated in the parenthesis above, Bosses don't drop in 1-2 hits. Let's not even start factoring the newly instilled notion of Stealth being used with At-Wills (although, someone told me this was how Stealth was intended to work, which then begs the question; Why did PW not fix that if it, if it wasn't intended to function that way? Also, why did PW take their time causing various Rogues to get used to a play-style that now seems obsolete to a certain degree?)...If for any reason the party wipes, there may not be an off-chance for a Rogue to at least attempt to Solo the attempt. (Well, to be fair, there probably will be an option to, even though it's going to have to take a bit of getting used to, and also require more time.)
  • revealedrevealed Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I dunno, I PvP at 60 and I don't really think TRs are OP. I think it should be intended that if they get the drop on you they can cause some major bleeding fast. TRs can be countered by playing smart, I don't see anything wrong with that.

    Edit: DC btw.
  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    revealed wrote: »
    I dunno, I PvP at 60 and I don't really think TRs are OP. I think it should be intended that if they get the drop on you they can cause some major bleeding fast. TRs can be countered by playing smart, I don't see anything wrong with that.
    thats cause you learned to play smart...the common pvp whiner sadly isnt that intelligent, thats why we get nerfed....pvp AND pve wise
  • kaiserschmarrnkaiserschmarrn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 390
    edited July 2013
    Sometimes I wonder if the devs and mods play their own game.

    So far the Stealth build had at least a bit of "unique snowflake" flair. Can any dev please explain why any TR should now pick any other tree than Executioner if you want to be effective in pve ?
  • nakuiinakuii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    thank u for completely fu**ing up rogues... they mean to deal big single target damage.. are those developers even play the game ?
    go nerf GF not the rogues..
  • yeruneyerune Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ceryndrion wrote: »
    Keep smiling guys..

    Keep smiling while getting ready for this huge nerf bat to be stuck up the TR's keister? I think not.

    It's a preview, agreed, but it's also apparent this is what the devs are thinking is a 'good fix'. It is not. It may get tweaked a bit, but the whole line of reasoning is just wrong.

    What exactly are they trying to fix here? The class or the amount of QQing on the forum?

    CoS needed some fixing, true. Just not the skill itself but the way it stacks with P2W enchants. The route cryptic is taking shows me anyway they much rather cater to the whiners and the folks with money (or time) for Greater runes.

    Lurkers needed fixing. But not by turning it into a useless daily that may or may not do some extra damage. It needed to break stealth when a skill was used that would otherwise have broken stealth.

    Perma-stealth dungeon soloing needed fixing, but not by making anything a TR does loose stealth. Bosses could have been given the ability to see through stealth.

    The reason why I am so upset, even though this is 'just on a test server' is that, again imo, most if not all complaints about the TR is from PvP. Me and several others who play TR's have tried to show how to counter stealth. It's been effective too, lots more TR's get whacked in PvP now. (I know subjective, but TR's are reporting this, so for what it's worth).

    This AGAIN gimps TR's in PvE due to complaints (and ignorance) in PvP. This is not a good thing, it is in fact a very bad thing. The devs seem to think it is a good thing, which is actually the worst.
    Sure they 'listened to the community', but again it seems they listened to those who cry NERFZ the loudest. That's a great way to kill the game.

    Bottom line, the whole reasoning for the nerfbat seems to me to be simple laziness and a misunderstanding of the problem, while not addressing the real problem at all... AGAIN.

    So no, I'm not smiling and I do not intend to stock up on lube to make this nerfbat go down (or up) easier.
  • kaiserschmarrnkaiserschmarrn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 390
    edited July 2013
    Now that all our dailies suck can we get an option to socket encounter power into the daily slots please ?!
  • zaodonnzaodonn Member Posts: 109
    edited July 2013
    Will there be another round of free resepcs due to these changes?
    (And by "will there be", I mean "there better be" ....)
  • kaiserschmarrnkaiserschmarrn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 390
    edited July 2013
    Probably best to vote with your wallet. Keep playing the game if you enjoy it, but stop buying Zen. And everytime you skip on a Zen purchase make a post about it and why you did it :D
  • hellcheezyhellcheezy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Ok so were is the new class mentioned ? are we even getting a new class?
  • iergoiergo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 107 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    They just killed my infinite crit on control wizard w/chilling cloud. However, I think this is a good change unlike the TR one.
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    hellcheezy wrote: »
    Ok so were is the new class mentioned ? are we even getting a new class?

    No new class, no new paragon paths.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'd love to see a clear and precise explanation from the developers for yet another round of making the TR a weaker class. The changes to TR skills are going to again result in TR players wanting to play anything else than their TR's and the TR being far less effective as a Striker.

    Do you really need to sell that many more scrolls of life and mass life?
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • vrhellvrhell Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yet another nerf to rogue.. this is getting slightly ridiculous and I really want to know why the devs keep on trying to fix things that don't need fixing instead of focusing on the real problems. I mean come on the game is lacking in so many aspects yet the only thing that is being done is rogues getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up more and more
  • macabrivsmacabrivs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 417 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    One thing i must agree, Devs shoulnd be nerfing classes because of PvP.... ffs the game wasnt even built to have PvP they only add PvP in the game some months before the game came online... actually i think thats why the game was 1 year delayed.

    So, the game has been in developed for what 3-4 years and was build all arrround PvE and sudently all devs care is nerfing/buff classses because of PvP.... As u might see im not a PvP fan but i do it from time to time and i rly suck at it lol but that doesnt mean i came to foruns cry and say x class is overpower because i cant kill it....

    I play with a high geared cleric so i dont care much about this new nerfs but im worried how this nerf will "damage" the delve experience.
  • durandurahandurandurahan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    when this will be implemented?
  • seraphidseraphid Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Finally some changes to rogues in pvp has been apllied, great to see Cryptic is hearing the community. Great patch!
  • revocainerevocaine Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 58
    edited July 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    As a person who does not play a rogue in PVE at all, but does play one in PVP, these are my thoughts. Note that I do also play teh other classes.

    Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.

    Removing 4 charges may be a little too much, I personally feel removing 2 charges would suffice. Still, I personally felt that this skill needed to be toned down a bit, and I dont think this change is all that bad. With the change to lurkers I feel that removing 4 charges on this skill is going to make kiting rogues a little too easy, but probably won't be a huge issue.

    Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.

    Could be a change for the better, not sure on this one. If the idea here is to make DF less attractive for PVE and perhaps promote sly flourish as viable, I think buffing Sly might have been a better route. I will agree this change is at least partly for the better simply since it feels a bit silly to get a stack to 10 and let it drop off if it isn't critting.

    Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.

    Sounds like a good plan.

    Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, instead of 20 / 40 / 60% bonus damage.

    This I think might be a bit over the top for PVE rogues. I think a better solution to balancing rogue PVP damage would have been to change lurkers to the following: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, AND 10 / 15 / 30% bonus bleed damage.

    Stealth: At-will powers used from stealth will now partially deplete the Stealth Meter.

    I won't argue with this change. If I had a perm stealth rogue however, I would probably be upset. I don't think that people playing against perm stealth rogues is something that is good for the game though, which is why I say I won't argue with it.

    If these changes go live I recommend the devs play close attention to the viability of rogues in PVE. Let's not go back to the situation during OB where we had a class (GWF) that had a very difficult time finding groups for alot of the content. Rogues are taken in PUG groups due to the potential high single target damage they can produce. It seems to me the chagnes to lurkers assault might put them in a very bad spot.

    Cryptic! Hire this man!
  • l0kusl0kus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    just to clarify devs...those changes won't affect pvp at all...still people WILL take 1 shot and keep whining about it, just because they're BAD and nothing will change that.

    /waitingforastrikerclass
  • kaiserschmarrnkaiserschmarrn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 390
    edited July 2013
    The one-shots in pvp come from stealthed Lashing Blade with the Lashing Blade feats and a full Tenebrous suit. But since Tenebrous enchants come from boxes they won't touch them because $$$$.

    Well done devs. Any stealth feats and their respective tree are now useless and another daily has been nerfed into the ground.
  • irk2013irk2013 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lichlament wrote: »
    I have to say if this Nerf goes live, That has to be the final straw for me.

    No long winded thread, no whining.

    I'll see myself to the door...

    Trust me you or your Rogue will not be missed.....
  • irk2013irk2013 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The one-shots in pvp come from stealthed Lashing Blade with the Lashing Blade feats and a full Tenebrous suit. But since Tenebrous enchants come from boxes they won't touch them because $$$$.

    Well done devs. Any stealth feats and their respective tree are now useless and another daily has been nerfed into the ground.

    Your tears so fulfill me keep them coming.
  • sharpseroxsharpserox Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    This will be implemented, and 90% of TR's players won't play anymore this game. This nerf make me feel like "What am i now?"... Because, what i will do?, DPS?, i can't because GWF better or GF with DPS Equipment will do higher dmg, so TR will be useless on DPS. "TANK"? - In your dreams maybe... "SUPPORT?"- Seriously?...


    Good Luck.
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    terramak wrote: »
    Trickster Rogue
    • Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
    • Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
    • Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
    • Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, instead of 20 / 40 / 60% bonus damage.
    • Stealth: At-will powers used from stealth will now partially deplete the Stealth Meter.
    Cloud of Steel: sounds reasonable
    Duelist's Flurry: ok
    Lurker's Assault: This is my primary Daily power and I actually like this change.
    Stealth: Does this include Gloaming Cut? If so, does it both deplete the Stealth meter and then add 25% to it on a kill? What about with the Sneaky Stabber Feat that grants 2/4/6/8/10% of your Stealth meter on every Gloaming Cut hit? These two are designed to give long durations of Stealth at the cost of an excruciatingly slow At-Will animation. Without that distinction, they seem to become practically worthless.
This discussion has been closed.