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So that's the game we're playing Neverwinter?
manjarowolfie
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I understand the need for content and some content can be sold. I understand there is a need for revenue. But forgive me if I'm a bit confused on the idea of selling races. Those seem like necessary things for an RPG. or better yet, a game based on D&D. Sure, the tabletop sells races in expansion packs but the races come with huge amounts of content to back them up(lots of racial abilities, encounters, feats, special classes that usually are held by that race; like the Dwarven Defender). so in truth you would need the content for the races anyways. But the content for the Feywild is free, and the stuff in the pack is mostly vain; not needed or just deal sweetener.
So that'S the pattern we're going through? Pay about 50-60 bucks for each race that you release with some pack, and then wait a few months to make them free like the Drow Renegades? Is that it? Should we be prepping up for you to sell us the new classes and mastery classes that you decide to releases when you get around to it too? Just my personal opinion but I doubt i'll continue to play the game knowing we're going to see this happen every time we go through a new race.
Can't we, I don't know, have the races and classes for the game for free, and pay for extra unneeded things for the game instead? Sell me gear, and companions; that's fine. It makes sense to do that, I don't need specific gear to play this game. but races? that's a bit of a stretch to me...
So that'S the pattern we're going through? Pay about 50-60 bucks for each race that you release with some pack, and then wait a few months to make them free like the Drow Renegades? Is that it? Should we be prepping up for you to sell us the new classes and mastery classes that you decide to releases when you get around to it too? Just my personal opinion but I doubt i'll continue to play the game knowing we're going to see this happen every time we go through a new race.
Can't we, I don't know, have the races and classes for the game for free, and pay for extra unneeded things for the game instead? Sell me gear, and companions; that's fine. It makes sense to do that, I don't need specific gear to play this game. but races? that's a bit of a stretch to me...
Post edited by manjarowolfie on
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A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
That's digressing from the point. You can add all the content in the world but every race can play it. It changes nothing to have a moon elf other than racial feats., and if it's anything like the Drow they'll have one semi-useless racial anyways. So why make us pay for something that seems like you should have it in the first place? We didn't pay for the elves, dwarves, halfings, and Half-Orcs; why now? I just don't think it's the right way to go. Pay for moon elf related gear or expansion dungeons and items? sure: I don't need them and they're completely unnecessary to the game so paying for them would be vain and strictly a preference. but paying for races is like paying for the games tutorial level...
I'd stipulate they're trying to figure out a way around that right now.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
How do you think that happens?
$60 for Moon Elf seems like a better deal than $200 for Menzo Drow.
You get a free new race - and have to pay if you want the variant.
I don't see why that's a game-stopper.
Following the patterns we've seen before...
We might get Genasi and Dragonborn for free and have to pay for Svirfneblin and then get Gnomes for free 2 months later.
Or we might get Gnomes, Dragonborn and Air/Earth/Fire/Water Genasi for free, but have to pay for Storm Genasi.
I don't see why either of those scenarios would be a problem.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
How does that happen? People decide to play a new character. They pay to unlock character slots, they pay for bags, they pay for inventory space, etc...
Paying for races and/or classes is ridiculous. It is D&D and people expect to be able to play common races without having to pay extra for them. It is not like it is some rare exotic race. Stuff like that will cost them more than they would possibly gain, due to the bad will it will generate. Greed turns people off, and there is already way too much of it in this game. Charging for races will be a tipping point for many.
I am going to have to disagree, I hate the store in this game and the way it is used but I feel your positions is wrong. Once the base races, the classic, canonic races are in place, I see nothing wrong with them selling premium races. Races that are ultra rare, this would make them so in game as well. (Well until the first sale)
In MMOs today races are nothing but cosmetic anyway. I mean lets be real, by level 20 does a race make any difference in game play other than look?
Classes on the other hand should be 100% free, they are defining game play components. On that note Cryptic, enough with the fluffy feel good mounts and kits and strange companions, how about a new class.
If you compare the most optimal to least optimal race for a class the difference could be around 5-10%, which can be significant if you are just into endgame stuff. If you are not, it is pretty much irrelevant though....
Elf vs. Drow.
Sun elf vs. Moon Elf.
Etc.
which is utterly ****ting on Faerun lore to even claim sun and moon elves are even remotely the same thing//But then, who cares about lore when theres apologists who will buy anything just to gloat over having what you dont.
I feel that there is a lot in the ZEN store that is over-priced and they woudl get a lot more money out of me if they reduced prices.
However, it is a game where you have free access to ALL THE CONTENT AND CLASSES and the only thing they restrict are a couple of races, which don't even seem to be the optimal ones for any class...
Devs got to pay for their groceries too you know.
As this market completes its transition from the sub models to the b2p,f2p and p2w models many people are going to realize that annual subscriptions weren't that bad after all.
But it's the case that in F2P/freemium games, most people do not pay anything or pay only a modest amount. They make most of their money from a small percentage of players who spend a lot. I guess that's who you are referring to as "competitive" players?
Pity all the classes suck, party diversity doesnt exist, and the content is trite and unimaginiative outside the Foundry, eh?
then perhaps they should invent a business model that doesnt assume a need to pretty much **** the money out of people.
It's important to look at things from the perspective of what it costs you to play each month. In a regular subscription MMO, that $60 pack would basically only cover you for like 4-6 months, after which you lose access...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
...and?
As opposed to what?
You do realize that in an environment where wards werent gated behind AD/Zen and thehere werent lockboxes galore that might be true, but as the game is currently designed, other than massive, prohibitive levels of AD or AH grinding, competing with someone who spends hundreds a month is downright impossible.
So really, your argument falls flat mainly because money allows you to grease the wheels of this game to a far faster clip than can be achieved without money, and therefore I'd argue a half a year subscription game would be giving you more value than what pittance you can get for 60 dollars of zen.
Look. That argument works for die hard F2P players that do whatever they can to avoid paying anything, but it does not hold up for typical MMORPG players.
The thing is, that $60 pack does not cover 4-6 months of a standard MMO. Not even close. It doesn't even cover 1 month. It gets you a race and a few fluff items. You still have to pay, on top of that, for characters slots, bank slots, bags, crafting materials, etc...for each character. All that stuff adds up quickly, and for many that are used to playing regular MMORPG's, it costs far more to get a lot less.
This game would be cheaper with a monthly fee giving you access to everything. Their current money grabbing strategies are starting to make me believe that they only have short term goals for this game.
Pretty much the honest truth here. Super hardcore players and super hardcore payers can compete in the game. The whole middle group can't. There are certain exceptions, like guardian fighters when the stalwart helm was selling for stupid prices. They could get decked out pretty quickly. But, still not as fast as if you paid or played constantly. There are also the CN ring run people. When those sold for high prices, players could get decked out. A lot of people didn't care to do that, so they got left out.
As vientor said above me, "...they only have short term goals for this game." I believed that as soon as I started playing the game. I still believe it, after quitting. Hopefully, those non-hardcore players, and the players that don't shell out hundreds of dollars, can get a better way to compete.
Never heard of FREE hobby ever.
Who are you competing with? maybe if you're only into PVP, but as far as I can tell actually playing the quests you're just competing against the monsters.......
The actual storyline of the game isn't a competition. (Again not including PVP...which is seriously silly anyways...)
Believe it or not, this is not our problem. It is the companies responsibility for paying its own employees. It is also the companies responsibility to convince us to fork over our money. That means providing content for which we are willing to spend money in the way that we are willing to spend it.
If you are really so concerned about the employees of these companies you should be harder on them to be smart about their business practices. Trying to trick people out of their money, trying to force them to pay by holding their role-playing aspirations hostage, making a pay to craft system that waits until you are deeply invested before charging you, these are dirty tricks that are unworthy and reprehensible.
This is not the way to convince people to pay for your content. This is the way to convince people that you are a con artists and should not be trusted.
If you are very concerned with the financial plight of the dev then you should be all over Cryptic to turn that boat around and make out like the good guy. And charging for the basic building blocks of the game like races isn't the way to do that.
The whole “soft launch” fiasco has made it seem that the game is older than it really is but it has only been out for a short time. We have yet to see what it is going to develop into. Will it become a false free game equivalent to cripple-ware offering just enough to punish free players or will it strengthen up into a game with a diverse and capable catalog of experiences for various players.
It does seem to be heading in one of those directions. And every time people get the idea that they owe something to the game just because it exists, it moves a little closer to that outcome. Every time people get the false idea that they are responsible for paying the devs it inches a little closer.
Don't be duped into supporting the game because its your duty. Reward the game companies for producing quality content and offering it in a smart and interesting way. If they aren't doing that, then keep your money. Insist on good behavior or just wait into they figure out how to straighten up.
Just because there are bad option from which to choose doesn't mean you have to choose a bad option.
And, heck, let's run with the idea that D&D is somehow precedent-setting in terms of how the MMO should be structured... hey, guess what? In 3e and 4e, if you want to play a new race, you ... only get it in a specific supplement where the new race (or class, or items, or...) appears. So you DO pay for races. All the time.
So, heck, by that argument Cryptic should be charging for lots of stuff!
Also, heck, there's going to be three different elves, two different dark elves, and half-elves. Only one elf and one dark elf is behind a pay wall.
Yeah, it's thematically stupid that moon elves are pay and sun elves are free, but from a game balance standpoint, there is nothing at all superior about moon elves.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
(All of these prices are going off the Cash shop/AD exchange. I understand the prices in the shop are high but this is the basis I am using)
$35 for a R3 mount (it is a unicorn but still a rank 3 that all of your characters get)
$18-19 worth in Zen (going at Average of 330AD per 1 Zen through Exchange)
$30 for Companion (Certain it will be an epic companion and every character gets one)
$2.50 for Extra Character slot ($5.00 for 2 through Cash shop)
$10-20 for Regalia (I would keep it on the low end for now)
(Not going to keep going here. This easily covers the $60)
Just going through that stuff you are easily getting more than $60 worth and I never mentioned the race. The pack itself is however always worth what you are willing to pay for it. You are getting content free, a free sunelf race that has a slightly better racial (2% AP gain over moonelf's 1% AP gain and 1% stamina..unless you want it for pvp?)
As per the classes being paid for. I don't see them going back on that word. All classes should be accessible it is just a few races that will have free counter parts that you will have to buy to receive.
Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
"Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"