This is player fail, not system fail. YOU are responsible if WE get determination. YOU decide to gang up on GWF 5 vs 1? Then LIVE with the consequences. Kill us 1on1 and you won't see a full determination bar every 2 seconds.
How is that fair to any other class? I want the same Superhero mode on my DC and CW, gods know i always need it, beeing ganged as number one target and all. So no that is not a valid excuse, try again.
Besides, it is just normal that the bad TR and CW are complaining now. They've started to realize, that the good players switched from OP to underdog roles long ago already and the only ones left playing easy mode are not as great at it aparently.
Gear dose not equal skill. If you face roll someone with two hits its not them lacking skills its them lacking gear. CW was never a skilles class, it takes good timing to be good with the squishiest even if you are geared class. Neither is TR - its just easier to pick up on with minimum responsibility in some dungeons. As someone said above GWFs are the troll class right now that rotates around a single ability. Its fail in design, same as DC with Astral Shield.
This is the real reason, why you are getting kind of "overwhelmed" by a skill -> lack of adaptability.
You know in any MMO its Gear>skill. Neverwinter is no exception. I guess its right since the main focus is PvE and PvP is a side activity from which company can make money, since not many people like to loose. Any points about MOBAS that might be mentioned are moot, those are strictly PvP games, they do not work the same as MMOs and no a MMO cant survive on costume items alone.
That said - Sentinel tree needs to be looked in to and give us gear score based Team VS Team.
easy fix to nerf them in pvp but to keep them the same in pve.
"Unable to sprint while in unstoppable"
causes them to be kiteable while god mode, need to use more strategic way of playing and cant rush godmode to pot and we cant do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about it
And this is why ANY TR crying about ANY other class, should shut up, read their skills and feats and learn to play.
But no, its easier to say, OH NO certain class is OP pls nerf... come on.. seriously...
And yeah, sorry if im being too rude or aggressive, its just it hits me really hard to see someone playing a class with soo many variants and "exploits" (perma stealth pls, vorpal +1 hit leashing pls, immunity spell... and i can keep it going ) to complain about others. Its obviously that no matter what your GS is or your experience in the game you still have a lot to learn.
BTW im a CW and i have NEVER had a problem with GWFs i can kill them in 1 rotation and if i fail i can just kite and use the same chain again. Only thing that is EXTREMELY <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> are perma stealth rogues that can just throw daggers at you and no matter how much you dodge or run they will always pop either leashing to finish the job or ITC to get you when you are unable to even hurt them. Oh yeah and those 1234124124124K GS GFs that just jump at you 1 or 2 shotting you, even the ones that are a complete failure can lock you down till someone else finish you off while you lay on the ground without even being able to move.
pretty obvious u didnt play against a troll GWF lol
I play one of these GWFs and they are very beast mode right now... Although honestly this type of thing has been present in almost any MMO. Your taking a damage dealing class, whose specced tank spec and then ultra geared out with BiS items... Dont expect to win...
That said I have played good CWs that can get me fairly low. I have played good TRs who can rarely beat me and its very easy with a TR/GF to kill a GWF with stuns/knocks and burst...
I think some changes could be:
A CD on going unstoppable, maybe 5-6 seconds.
Or
Damage taken grants less determination but damage dealt grants a little more... If you fix those things itll be fairly balanced
OR
If they retool Tene enchants it will be balanced as is... The main issue people have with sent GWfs is they synergise the best with tene enchants... So is it the class or the enchant that should be reworked? Take away tene and we do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage...
i use GF i dont have problem with any GWF build but for other classes if you were chased by a gwf it would be the end for you
reasons why theyre hard to kill are
unstoppable with feats and glory set it will heal them 15%HP and it also has temporary HP 10-20%
if they use unstopable theyre immune to CC and will resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on Determination
and with dash you cant run away from them
not OP right?
gf skill/feats/armor sets doesnt even heal them or give high temp HP which makes GWF tankier than GF
how to kill GWF
if he use unstoppable (you will notice a red silhouette) if they use it run and dont use any skill to them
you will know that its off if the silhouette appears again 2nd time thats the time when to use stun knock etc dont let them stand so they cant use unstoppable again
if youre a GF just use reflect i beat a sentinel GWF + 5k potion with reflect lol (dont use any skill while reflect is on use it if he dont have unstoppable so he cant run)
10% hp is a bit ridiculous of a number, but i understand his reasoning.
A single encounter rotation is enough for gwfs to pop unstoppable. While that is much more than 10%hp it does feel like an extremely short amount of time. So i get where this guy is coming from.
Typical fight vs gwf goes like this: use encounter rotation, gwf pops big red, kite till big red is over, use all encounters again, repeat till gwf runs away (assuming both of you are near max hp).
While that fight isnt very difficult (normally) is always annoying. What bothers me the most is gwfs have to choose to die. 1v1 its almost impossible to kill a gwf, as they can choose to flee every time unstoppable procs. You can force them from the point and such, but to land a kb they have to choose to fight it out.
I agree trs are similar in this regard. Maybe gwfs just bother me more b/c at least trs have to be stealthed so i dont see them fleeing as plainly
a single encounter rotation from anyone that is geared, is over 50% of a persons life if and only if they aren't dodged for anything. GWF's cant dodge. The earliest they can call unstoppable a single time, is after losing 25% of their health *to bring determination bar to 50%). For this, they heal 5% of their hitpoints, and get immune to cc, and 25% damage reduction added to what they have, only (another secret, by scaling. say you have a natural 46% damage reduction like my gwf, you get an addition 25% of the way to 100% only.. so I actually get only 13% damage reduction from that).
They do not even get immune to all cc. Roar still works, flourish still works, clerics hammer still works, in fact most knockbacks will still at leas stun if not knock you back some, and make the very limited time in their unstoppable worthless.
a gwf's sprint, if in full strength as mine is, is exactly the same length as a cw's 3 dodges. and that is it. BTW, a gwf sprinting can be cough by any damages since it is not a dodge, and cought by cw's with control spells etc et al. The only thing a gwf can do is take damage, they have no choice. Unstoppable only makes a 5% heal, small bit of damage reduction based on the scale from what they already have, to 100 as mentioned above, and a resistance, not immunity, to crowd control affects.
My gwf kills other gwf's easily. Recently I did get beaten in a 1v1, finally, by another gwf. He though was running 6 tenebs.
(bug abuse btw, tenebs can go on all offensive slots, it is the only one with this bug, and is why it is done. Any class with this is lethal and needs no other life steal /life drain to tank very well, and deal quite a bit of extra damage)
(So you all understand, 7 offensive slots, 7 perf teneb is possible to deal 28% of your hitpoints in damage, on every single hit.. that's 10k damage on a single hit.. on at wills. imagine that on a tr though with lesser damage, that's perm stealth? or a gwf in unstoppable that has the only time having the same attack speed as a tr?
Or how about gf's with their knockdowns, that additionally do that, and can never die?
Or a healer in this instance with already having all of his own healing. Make that a cw, that can raise someone in the air, magic missile a few times, and laugh?
What you do not get, is that unstoppable.. is easy to counter, is meaningless to most people that have ever used it, they know how to counter it. easily. Their knockdown has a big delay on it that anyone can dodge. hell you can walk backwards and leave its range of effect. All of their other skills have a time delay that is easily dodgable. Let them spring at you. I do. then I push them away. I time my encounters on my cw and don't spam them. I rarely have to dodge to avoid a gwf, they are that easy.
They are also easy to chase down if they run away after unstoppable and sprint. They will not be dodging you. Dodge up to them, or if not, mount up and follow. they do not outrun any mount save basic ones, for ashort sprint.
Then toss them into the air, and drop an iceshard on them. they always die. I eat gwf's for breakfast on my cw.
then again I do with every class.
on another point, I am tired of hearing about sentinel this, and sentinel that.
my teddy bear, isn't a sentinel spec. The reason being, is 3 of the feats work, the rest are broken, or do not work as intended. The final skill, doesn't give that 20% boost, it only gives a bonus to the small healing of one skill, that most don't even use. Sent spec build was a sick joke. The feats don't work. And 2 of the feats, are used by most conq specs, which are the only ones that give defensive bonuses, that actually work.
So knock that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off of blaming a spec tree.
Also a gwf, if full balls tot he walls offensive *and will die in a few short seconds to anyone that has a clue btw, unstoppable or not) might be dealing 15-16k before damage reduction and deflection of other person is involved. Mine, I am full defensive conq with 46% def and 40% deflection. I hit 10k.
my gf is currently hitting that with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear level 47.
my tr level 60 hits 50-60k. no vorpals etc.
cw iceshard on my cw hits for 40k. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear.
my healers hammer alone, has hit 30k. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear
their damage is ****. even offensive, compared to all other classes. Their skills, are all delayed so are easily dodged, etc et al. no dodge, unless they use an encounter slot to dodge once per 12 seconds, etc. Meh. I cant stand you guys
I got on my PVE speced GF last night for fun (from my usual GTE GWF) and was rolling over GWFs. Im actually a little disappointed after playing my GF because I realized how weak my GWF is (even with 7 GTE enchants). I constantly see 15k+ crits as my GF and im not even speced/geared out for PVP, most of my better stats come from my stone.
If you have a good GF and a TR/CW, its actually really easy to hardcounter a GWF and kill them in a few seconds... I feel like my GWf is a one trick pony that once you figure out the trick, its not hard to play against.
While I do think they are beast mode still, compared to the average player, I can get shutdown pretty easy in premade vs premade. The only thing GWF Sents are really great at are contesting points and running to pots when we get low to go back and contest...
With equally geared players GWFs will never get top kills, will never have the highest "score" and will spend most of their fight standing at the same point staying alive as long as possible on that point and occasionally rotating mid...
They are strong 1v1 if youve never played one. Once you have, you can counter them.
If they outgear you, you probably wont win. If your frankly bad, you wont win. If you dont understand the Str/Weakness of your class and GWF class, you wont win... If you do... You can win..
How is that fair to any other class? I want the same Superhero mode on my DC and CW, gods know i always need it, beeing ganged as number one target and all. So no that is not a valid excuse, try again.
Gear dose not equal skill. If you face roll someone with two hits its not them lacking skills its them lacking gear. CW was never a skilles class, it takes good timing to be good with the squishiest even if you are geared class. Neither is TR - its just easier to pick up on with minimum responsibility in some dungeons. As someone said above GWFs are the troll class right now that rotates around a single ability. Its fail in design, same as DC with Astral Shield.
You know in any MMO its Gear>skill. Neverwinter is no exception. I guess its right since the main focus is PvE and PvP is a side activity from which company can make money, since not many people like to loose. Any points about MOBAS that might be mentioned are moot, those are strictly PvP games, they do not work the same as MMOs and no a MMO cant survive on costume items alone.
That said - Sentinel tree needs to be looked in to and give us gear score based Team VS Team.
sentinel tree, as has been mentioned many times, is completely broken. Only 3 feats work. not even the end feat works in that path, only the healing ability of the skills that most don't use. I love facing sentinals as my conq. I kill them two at a time easily. Don't complain about a path that doesn't work, please? Its like complaining of cereal being too good when its with milk, when no milk was ever used.
so yes, they do need looked at, to get their feats to actually work as mentioned / intended. the tanky ones are that way, because of their gear (which also means, they have nearly no offense to speak of).
Also to another post, they are easily kited with sprint. why would you make unstoppable mode unable to use sprint? so since youc an already knock them back in it, slow them down, moving backwards alone without dodging will see you away from most of their abilities, lets make it worse by making them unable to sprint, in the only mode they can move in, in most cases at all?
come on guys. This isn't hard
Great weapon fighters got no downside, they do high damage, have amazing defence, healing and survivability, and are Immune to about anything you can do 95% of the time.
I wish my GWF had that Immune ability. Which path is it in, so I can respec?
i use GF i dont have problem with any GWF build but for other classes if you were chased by a gwf it would be the end for you
reasons why theyre hard to kill are
unstoppable with feats and glory set it will heal them 15%HP and it also has temporary HP 10-20%
if they use unstopable theyre immune to CC and will resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on Determination
and with dash you cant run away from them
not OP right?
gf skill/feats/armor sets doesnt even heal them or give high temp HP which makes GWF tankier than GF
how to kill GWF
if he use unstoppable (you will notice a red silhouette) if they use it run and dont use any skill to them
you will know that its off if the silhouette appears again 2nd time thats the time when to use stun knock etc dont let them stand so they cant use unstoppable again
if youre a GF just use reflect i beat a sentinel GWF + 5k potion with reflect lol (dont use any skill while reflect is on use it if he dont have unstoppable so he cant run)
trollgre you are so stupid you should be banned from the forums for it. Look man, they have a daily they can fully heal themselves with... in a single hit. They have high damage (or can, if a person actually can play the class right) with having a higher defence, and same or near deflect as most gwf's. With lower points for lifedrain, they can still heal better from single attacks than a gwf, because of their damage output.
They have encounters that can heal themselves 20%, as well as giving temporary hitpoints (rarely used) as well as recovery guard meter, health, speed, etc et al. GF's are much better tanks.
Btw, they also have a daily that will make them temporarily, like unstoppable, immune to cc effects, and is an aoe damage of mid range, that can hit everything (if you had 200 creatures in the same spot, it hits them... all)
my gf can kill gwf's in two hits (once I finish my gear, it should only take one) even the dreaded sentinel build (laughable, the tree doesn't work, only 3 feats) and super defensively built.
It takes a gwf a very long time to kill a gf (because of the tankiness, not even using shield block, and the gwf's low damage output.
I also do 5k hits to gwf's while they are in unstoppable (maxxed unstoppable) for the one that lived long enough to use it, barely. As stated before, will be much higher once I finish getting all the pieces to my set.
GWF's are horribly weak as they are, compared to gf's and tr's. CW's can also handle them very, very easily. I do with mine, no matter the gear quality of the gwf, and how bad my cw's is.
My cleric can tank even their dps's specc'ed ones easily. It is the only class aside other healers he tanks easily, with his currently bad eq.
Unstoppable is the only thing they have going for them, and their opponents bad timing mishap (or gwf's good timing fortune as it were, though with high delay times in the skills actually happening till the effect is done and is easily dodged, its usually opponents bad timing.
Lastly what I want to say, super tanky gwf's like mine (conq path, eq is set to very little power I have less than 2k, little crit I have around 1k, but I do have 46% def, 40% deflect, 8% lifesteal and 10% regen, with movement speed and a lesser lifedrinkers. Its a cheap set.
max hit is 10k with my daily. Daily Is dodgable btw. They are not damagy, but they can take a beating for a long time. To a good player, they are only prolonging the inevitable. It is almost laughable the thought of facing my own char, I know I an kill it easily, with every class I have, the only challenge would be on my healer. would be a very, very long fight. Hammer would likely win the healers though.
But people are not playing their characters well, and so I can often take on 2v1 against me (or they also are wearing things that should never be worn in a level 60 pvp match, such as level 50 greens.
I know I have gone everywhere with this post and not sticking to points. I am dead tired, and there are posts in this thread that is so unbelievably stupid, that I just want to walk up to people, and stamp their forehead with the word dunce, and watch them parade around their family with it.
Why is it taking so long to fix this brokenly op class?
PVP guilds are bringing 3 gwf to a match for a reason, we even have guys in this thread bragging about fighting 5v1 with his gwf.
So far the only solutions for fighting a gwf seem to be run away and let them win the capture point, not acceptable.
oh god. ok. to clear the air on this, its not because of the class, its because of the utility. pvp guilds, run their gwf's, and many of the tr's do it too.. running with 6-7 tenebrous enchantments.
makes it much easier to kill people in pvp perm steathed, with their ranged. You can wear green gear, just have the tenebrous as greater, and you are garaunteed kills.
GWF"s, reason they are also brought, is because of the tenebs. They do less damage than tr's, but the immune to cc temporarily means that even without a tr's hide, you can often get to the enemy using different powers than normal (the takedown that can be used against a target at range) and quickly killed to death. By tenebrous enchants, not by damage.
Those two classes are the best at abusing the enchantments. (they are the only enchantment made by shards that were made wrong, they supposed to happen on weapon offense slot only, but were made just offense, its a bug abuse.
I am raising a GF alt, I have no skill at all with this class, (not sure what Guard is, things like that) and no gear ( unenchanted green). But I still have to lose a 1v1 against a gwf. They sure move a lot of air, like a big fan, but they simply do no damage. I can do my Profession things while staying on my base with an enemy gwf trying all he can, then I come back to main screen,, I yawn and I throw him 300 meters away.
trollgre you are so stupid you should be banned from the forums for it. Look man, they have a daily they can fully heal themselves with... in a single hit. They have high damage (or can, if a person actually can play the class right) with having a higher defence, and same or near deflect as most gwf's. With lower points for lifedrain, they can still heal better from single attacks than a gwf, because of their damage output.
They have encounters that can heal themselves 20%, as well as giving temporary hitpoints (rarely used) as well as recovery guard meter, health, speed, etc et al. GF's are much better tanks.
Btw, they also have a daily that will make them temporarily, like unstoppable, immune to cc effects, and is an aoe damage of mid range, that can hit everything (if you had 200 creatures in the same spot, it hits them... all)
my gf can kill gwf's in two hits (once I finish my gear, it should only take one) even the dreaded sentinel build (laughable, the tree doesn't work, only 3 feats) and super defensively built.
It takes a gwf a very long time to kill a gf (because of the tankiness, not even using shield block, and the gwf's low damage output.
I also do 5k hits to gwf's while they are in unstoppable (maxxed unstoppable) for the one that lived long enough to use it, barely. As stated before, will be much higher once I finish getting all the pieces to my set.
GWF's are horribly weak as they are, compared to gf's and tr's. CW's can also handle them very, very easily. I do with mine, no matter the gear quality of the gwf, and how bad my cw's is.
My cleric can tank even their dps's specc'ed ones easily. It is the only class aside other healers he tanks easily, with his currently bad eq.
Unstoppable is the only thing they have going for them, and their opponents bad timing mishap (or gwf's good timing fortune as it were, though with high delay times in the skills actually happening till the effect is done and is easily dodged, its usually opponents bad timing.
Lastly what I want to say, super tanky gwf's like mine (conq path, eq is set to very little power I have less than 2k, little crit I have around 1k, but I do have 46% def, 40% deflect, 8% lifesteal and 10% regen, with movement speed and a lesser lifedrinkers. Its a cheap set.
max hit is 10k with my daily. Daily Is dodgable btw. They are not damagy, but they can take a beating for a long time. To a good player, they are only prolonging the inevitable. It is almost laughable the thought of facing my own char, I know I an kill it easily, with every class I have, the only challenge would be on my healer. would be a very, very long fight. Hammer would likely win the healers though.
But people are not playing their characters well, and so I can often take on 2v1 against me (or they also are wearing things that should never be worn in a level 60 pvp match, such as level 50 greens.
I know I have gone everywhere with this post and not sticking to points. I am dead tired, and there are posts in this thread that is so unbelievably stupid, that I just want to walk up to people, and stamp their forehead with the word dunce, and watch them parade around their family with it.
Now I go to bed.
u mad lol?
probably most GWF that you encountered are probably noobs (just stand take damage and doesnt dodge) with regular items
i tried GWF and i can kill all class even if my lvl and items are lower (lvl40) no def and deflect and i can tank 4 players (40-49pvp)
i always have 0(zero) deaths on my score i just laugh at GFs and TRs even CWs ran away from me once they know that youre skilled and they have no chance of winning they will always avoid you
0
deinokMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 30Arc User
u mad lol?
probably most GWF that you encountered are probably noobs (just stand take damage and doesnt dodge) with regular items
i tried GWF and i can kill all class even if my lvl and items are lower (lvl40) no def and deflect and i can tank 4 players (40-49pvp)
i always have 0(zero) deaths on my score i just laugh at GFs and TRs even CWs ran away from me once they know that youre skilled and they have no chance of winning they will always avoid you
In my opinion, you need to find extremelly skilled players and see what happens with that 0 deaths XD
Look as i said before gwfs are a gimmicky, one-trick pony. Unstoppable is all they have going for them. Learn to counter it and gwfs are cake.
As a tr, pop stealth; as a cw tele around; as a gf it shouldnt even matter; and idk about other classes as those are the ones i play basically just wait it out.
None of my toons are very geared (all ~9.3k gs) but i still dont have problems with gwfs. Even when i bump into the geared ones that i cannot dmg. I just ignore them and pick off their buddies. Perfect plan since they sacrifice so much dmg to be that tanky they are not really a threat if left alone (my cw can take a full rotation of their atks and still live (just barely).
To put it another way, gwfs "power" comes from the fact that people (for whatever reason) waste their time attacking them when squishier targets are around, or waste their time trying to be a superhero and 1v1'ing them. While i agree their tankiness is ridiculous, i only find them overwhelming when a team has several and my team doesnt have any gwfs or gfs.
with or without unstoppable their survivability is OP any path build
theyre a lot tougher than GF
reasons = High temporary HP // lifesteal (GFs lifesteal is daily and no damage) // CC immunity(again GFs cc immune is daily you need to gain enough AP) // heal
GF has guard? lol just go to their back and knock them down problem solved
once GF guard is broken they dont have any skill or dash to walk away from zergs
a wise GWF doesnt always cast unstoppable when its already available they wait for the right time to use it
teleport or blink if they use unstoppable? they will just chase you with dash and their skills range are wide
if theyre on unstoppable their skills are cooling down so theres a high chance that they will perma stun you if their unstop is gone
I am raising a GF alt, I have no skill at all with this class, (not sure what Guard is, things like that) and no gear ( unenchanted green). But I still have to lose a 1v1 against a gwf. They sure move a lot of air, like a big fan, but they simply do no damage. I can do my Profession things while staying on my base with an enemy gwf trying all he can, then I come back to main screen,, I yawn and I throw him 300 meters away.
And btw the gwf is the only one I can defeat. Against another GF of course it's equal (and borinf). Against ranged/cc classes it's lost of course. But gwfs? They're so slow, they have no charge, they have to sprint, then stop sprinting, then start hitting. Of course they're dead by then.
Comments
How is that fair to any other class? I want the same Superhero mode on my DC and CW, gods know i always need it, beeing ganged as number one target and all. So no that is not a valid excuse, try again.
Gear dose not equal skill. If you face roll someone with two hits its not them lacking skills its them lacking gear. CW was never a skilles class, it takes good timing to be good with the squishiest even if you are geared class. Neither is TR - its just easier to pick up on with minimum responsibility in some dungeons. As someone said above GWFs are the troll class right now that rotates around a single ability. Its fail in design, same as DC with Astral Shield.
You know in any MMO its Gear>skill. Neverwinter is no exception. I guess its right since the main focus is PvE and PvP is a side activity from which company can make money, since not many people like to loose. Any points about MOBAS that might be mentioned are moot, those are strictly PvP games, they do not work the same as MMOs and no a MMO cant survive on costume items alone.
That said - Sentinel tree needs to be looked in to and give us gear score based Team VS Team.
"Unable to sprint while in unstoppable"
causes them to be kiteable while god mode, need to use more strategic way of playing and cant rush godmode to pot and we cant do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about it
pretty obvious u didnt play against a troll GWF lol
That guy's comment was so <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the first place, I'm not even sure it deserved an answer
Here for the build+guide
That said I have played good CWs that can get me fairly low. I have played good TRs who can rarely beat me and its very easy with a TR/GF to kill a GWF with stuns/knocks and burst...
I think some changes could be:
A CD on going unstoppable, maybe 5-6 seconds.
Or
Damage taken grants less determination but damage dealt grants a little more... If you fix those things itll be fairly balanced
OR
If they retool Tene enchants it will be balanced as is... The main issue people have with sent GWfs is they synergise the best with tene enchants... So is it the class or the enchant that should be reworked? Take away tene and we do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage...
reasons why theyre hard to kill are
unstoppable with feats and glory set it will heal them 15%HP and it also has temporary HP 10-20%
if they use unstopable theyre immune to CC and will resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on Determination
and with dash you cant run away from them
not OP right?
gf skill/feats/armor sets doesnt even heal them or give high temp HP which makes GWF tankier than GF
how to kill GWF
if he use unstoppable (you will notice a red silhouette) if they use it run and dont use any skill to them
you will know that its off if the silhouette appears again 2nd time thats the time when to use stun knock etc dont let them stand so they cant use unstoppable again
if youre a GF just use reflect i beat a sentinel GWF + 5k potion with reflect lol (dont use any skill while reflect is on use it if he dont have unstoppable so he cant run)
a single encounter rotation from anyone that is geared, is over 50% of a persons life if and only if they aren't dodged for anything. GWF's cant dodge. The earliest they can call unstoppable a single time, is after losing 25% of their health *to bring determination bar to 50%). For this, they heal 5% of their hitpoints, and get immune to cc, and 25% damage reduction added to what they have, only (another secret, by scaling. say you have a natural 46% damage reduction like my gwf, you get an addition 25% of the way to 100% only.. so I actually get only 13% damage reduction from that).
They do not even get immune to all cc. Roar still works, flourish still works, clerics hammer still works, in fact most knockbacks will still at leas stun if not knock you back some, and make the very limited time in their unstoppable worthless.
a gwf's sprint, if in full strength as mine is, is exactly the same length as a cw's 3 dodges. and that is it. BTW, a gwf sprinting can be cough by any damages since it is not a dodge, and cought by cw's with control spells etc et al. The only thing a gwf can do is take damage, they have no choice. Unstoppable only makes a 5% heal, small bit of damage reduction based on the scale from what they already have, to 100 as mentioned above, and a resistance, not immunity, to crowd control affects.
My gwf kills other gwf's easily. Recently I did get beaten in a 1v1, finally, by another gwf. He though was running 6 tenebs.
(bug abuse btw, tenebs can go on all offensive slots, it is the only one with this bug, and is why it is done. Any class with this is lethal and needs no other life steal /life drain to tank very well, and deal quite a bit of extra damage)
(So you all understand, 7 offensive slots, 7 perf teneb is possible to deal 28% of your hitpoints in damage, on every single hit.. that's 10k damage on a single hit.. on at wills. imagine that on a tr though with lesser damage, that's perm stealth? or a gwf in unstoppable that has the only time having the same attack speed as a tr?
Or how about gf's with their knockdowns, that additionally do that, and can never die?
Or a healer in this instance with already having all of his own healing. Make that a cw, that can raise someone in the air, magic missile a few times, and laugh?
What you do not get, is that unstoppable.. is easy to counter, is meaningless to most people that have ever used it, they know how to counter it. easily. Their knockdown has a big delay on it that anyone can dodge. hell you can walk backwards and leave its range of effect. All of their other skills have a time delay that is easily dodgable. Let them spring at you. I do. then I push them away. I time my encounters on my cw and don't spam them. I rarely have to dodge to avoid a gwf, they are that easy.
They are also easy to chase down if they run away after unstoppable and sprint. They will not be dodging you. Dodge up to them, or if not, mount up and follow. they do not outrun any mount save basic ones, for ashort sprint.
Then toss them into the air, and drop an iceshard on them. they always die. I eat gwf's for breakfast on my cw.
then again I do with every class.
my teddy bear, isn't a sentinel spec. The reason being, is 3 of the feats work, the rest are broken, or do not work as intended. The final skill, doesn't give that 20% boost, it only gives a bonus to the small healing of one skill, that most don't even use. Sent spec build was a sick joke. The feats don't work. And 2 of the feats, are used by most conq specs, which are the only ones that give defensive bonuses, that actually work.
So knock that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off of blaming a spec tree.
Also a gwf, if full balls tot he walls offensive *and will die in a few short seconds to anyone that has a clue btw, unstoppable or not) might be dealing 15-16k before damage reduction and deflection of other person is involved. Mine, I am full defensive conq with 46% def and 40% deflection. I hit 10k.
my gf is currently hitting that with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear level 47.
my tr level 60 hits 50-60k. no vorpals etc.
cw iceshard on my cw hits for 40k. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear.
my healers hammer alone, has hit 30k. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear
their damage is ****. even offensive, compared to all other classes. Their skills, are all delayed so are easily dodged, etc et al. no dodge, unless they use an encounter slot to dodge once per 12 seconds, etc. Meh. I cant stand you guys
I got on my PVE speced GF last night for fun (from my usual GTE GWF) and was rolling over GWFs. Im actually a little disappointed after playing my GF because I realized how weak my GWF is (even with 7 GTE enchants). I constantly see 15k+ crits as my GF and im not even speced/geared out for PVP, most of my better stats come from my stone.
If you have a good GF and a TR/CW, its actually really easy to hardcounter a GWF and kill them in a few seconds... I feel like my GWf is a one trick pony that once you figure out the trick, its not hard to play against.
While I do think they are beast mode still, compared to the average player, I can get shutdown pretty easy in premade vs premade. The only thing GWF Sents are really great at are contesting points and running to pots when we get low to go back and contest...
With equally geared players GWFs will never get top kills, will never have the highest "score" and will spend most of their fight standing at the same point staying alive as long as possible on that point and occasionally rotating mid...
They are strong 1v1 if youve never played one. Once you have, you can counter them.
If they outgear you, you probably wont win. If your frankly bad, you wont win. If you dont understand the Str/Weakness of your class and GWF class, you wont win... If you do... You can win..
sentinel tree, as has been mentioned many times, is completely broken. Only 3 feats work. not even the end feat works in that path, only the healing ability of the skills that most don't use. I love facing sentinals as my conq. I kill them two at a time easily. Don't complain about a path that doesn't work, please? Its like complaining of cereal being too good when its with milk, when no milk was ever used.
so yes, they do need looked at, to get their feats to actually work as mentioned / intended. the tanky ones are that way, because of their gear (which also means, they have nearly no offense to speak of).
Also to another post, they are easily kited with sprint. why would you make unstoppable mode unable to use sprint? so since youc an already knock them back in it, slow them down, moving backwards alone without dodging will see you away from most of their abilities, lets make it worse by making them unable to sprint, in the only mode they can move in, in most cases at all?
come on guys. This isn't hard
I wish my GWF had that Immune ability. Which path is it in, so I can respec?
PVP guilds are bringing 3 gwf to a match for a reason, we even have guys in this thread bragging about fighting 5v1 with his gwf.
So far the only solutions for fighting a gwf seem to be run away and let them win the capture point, not acceptable.
trollgre you are so stupid you should be banned from the forums for it. Look man, they have a daily they can fully heal themselves with... in a single hit. They have high damage (or can, if a person actually can play the class right) with having a higher defence, and same or near deflect as most gwf's. With lower points for lifedrain, they can still heal better from single attacks than a gwf, because of their damage output.
They have encounters that can heal themselves 20%, as well as giving temporary hitpoints (rarely used) as well as recovery guard meter, health, speed, etc et al. GF's are much better tanks.
Btw, they also have a daily that will make them temporarily, like unstoppable, immune to cc effects, and is an aoe damage of mid range, that can hit everything (if you had 200 creatures in the same spot, it hits them... all)
my gf can kill gwf's in two hits (once I finish my gear, it should only take one) even the dreaded sentinel build (laughable, the tree doesn't work, only 3 feats) and super defensively built.
It takes a gwf a very long time to kill a gf (because of the tankiness, not even using shield block, and the gwf's low damage output.
I also do 5k hits to gwf's while they are in unstoppable (maxxed unstoppable) for the one that lived long enough to use it, barely. As stated before, will be much higher once I finish getting all the pieces to my set.
GWF's are horribly weak as they are, compared to gf's and tr's. CW's can also handle them very, very easily. I do with mine, no matter the gear quality of the gwf, and how bad my cw's is.
My cleric can tank even their dps's specc'ed ones easily. It is the only class aside other healers he tanks easily, with his currently bad eq.
Unstoppable is the only thing they have going for them, and their opponents bad timing mishap (or gwf's good timing fortune as it were, though with high delay times in the skills actually happening till the effect is done and is easily dodged, its usually opponents bad timing.
Lastly what I want to say, super tanky gwf's like mine (conq path, eq is set to very little power I have less than 2k, little crit I have around 1k, but I do have 46% def, 40% deflect, 8% lifesteal and 10% regen, with movement speed and a lesser lifedrinkers. Its a cheap set.
max hit is 10k with my daily. Daily Is dodgable btw. They are not damagy, but they can take a beating for a long time. To a good player, they are only prolonging the inevitable. It is almost laughable the thought of facing my own char, I know I an kill it easily, with every class I have, the only challenge would be on my healer. would be a very, very long fight. Hammer would likely win the healers though.
But people are not playing their characters well, and so I can often take on 2v1 against me (or they also are wearing things that should never be worn in a level 60 pvp match, such as level 50 greens.
I know I have gone everywhere with this post and not sticking to points. I am dead tired, and there are posts in this thread that is so unbelievably stupid, that I just want to walk up to people, and stamp their forehead with the word dunce, and watch them parade around their family with it.
Now I go to bed.
oh god. ok. to clear the air on this, its not because of the class, its because of the utility. pvp guilds, run their gwf's, and many of the tr's do it too.. running with 6-7 tenebrous enchantments.
makes it much easier to kill people in pvp perm steathed, with their ranged. You can wear green gear, just have the tenebrous as greater, and you are garaunteed kills.
GWF"s, reason they are also brought, is because of the tenebs. They do less damage than tr's, but the immune to cc temporarily means that even without a tr's hide, you can often get to the enemy using different powers than normal (the takedown that can be used against a target at range) and quickly killed to death. By tenebrous enchants, not by damage.
Those two classes are the best at abusing the enchantments. (they are the only enchantment made by shards that were made wrong, they supposed to happen on weapon offense slot only, but were made just offense, its a bug abuse.
That, and that only is the reason.
probably most GWF that you encountered are probably noobs (just stand take damage and doesnt dodge) with regular items
i tried GWF and i can kill all class even if my lvl and items are lower (lvl40) no def and deflect and i can tank 4 players (40-49pvp)
i always have 0(zero) deaths on my score i just laugh at GFs and TRs even CWs ran away from me once they know that youre skilled and they have no chance of winning they will always avoid you
In my opinion, you need to find extremelly skilled players and see what happens with that 0 deaths XD
Lollipops for the kids ^^
Look as i said before gwfs are a gimmicky, one-trick pony. Unstoppable is all they have going for them. Learn to counter it and gwfs are cake.
As a tr, pop stealth; as a cw tele around; as a gf it shouldnt even matter; and idk about other classes as those are the ones i play
None of my toons are very geared (all ~9.3k gs) but i still dont have problems with gwfs. Even when i bump into the geared ones that i cannot dmg. I just ignore them and pick off their buddies. Perfect plan since they sacrifice so much dmg to be that tanky they are not really a threat if left alone (my cw can take a full rotation of their atks and still live (just barely).
To put it another way, gwfs "power" comes from the fact that people (for whatever reason) waste their time attacking them when squishier targets are around, or waste their time trying to be a superhero and 1v1'ing them. While i agree their tankiness is ridiculous, i only find them overwhelming when a team has several and my team doesnt have any gwfs or gfs.
theyre a lot tougher than GF
reasons = High temporary HP // lifesteal (GFs lifesteal is daily and no damage) // CC immunity(again GFs cc immune is daily you need to gain enough AP) // heal
GF has guard? lol just go to their back and knock them down problem solved
once GF guard is broken they dont have any skill or dash to walk away from zergs
a wise GWF doesnt always cast unstoppable when its already available they wait for the right time to use it
teleport or blink if they use unstoppable? they will just chase you with dash and their skills range are wide
if theyre on unstoppable their skills are cooling down so theres a high chance that they will perma stun you if their unstop is gone
Right, GWF's never die, never get beat, are always in Unstoppable and they're also to blame for global warming. GWF's are truly that powerful.
Just not in this game.
And btw the gwf is the only one I can defeat. Against another GF of course it's equal (and borinf). Against ranged/cc classes it's lost of course. But gwfs? They're so slow, they have no charge, they have to sprint, then stop sprinting, then start hitting. Of course they're dead by then.