No, if you knock them while the blue lines are up it breaks the heal and they die instantly.
It really doesn't.
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Guess, I'll have to make a recording to prove it. Knocking them while the animation is running absolutely does kill them instantly. The only thing I haven't tried to do is look at the boss' health numbers to see by how much it reduces the heal effect.
Spider boss is really easy, you dont really require a cw there... you have a cw so u can run the dungeon 3 times during dd. You don't need a GF at all for that dungeon, matter of fact I have not ran with a GF in t2 dungeons 80% of the time. There is no benefit of having an GF with exception of maybe frozen heart, if your dc can kite.
This fight heavily revolves around dps, if your dps can damage the boss enough you will win the fight. Boss will kill the adds you do not. You can do this dungeon with 1 dc 1 cw 1 tr and still finish run in 30 min(around 10k gs)
Ideal comp for Spider would be:
1 DC obviously
1 CW for getting in more runs/more control/ray of enfeeble
1 GWF for Greater Plaguefire debuff/Defense reduction debuff which makes a measly 10k bleed go up to 16k bleed for the TR.
1 TR for the bleed
1 any other class really maybe not dc.
DC is all about just constantly keep up the heal on your party.
I used Hallowed Ground Heal spec with Sunburst for knockback/ap buildup/ Forgemaster's Flame with the D will allow ur party to be able to eat blademaster spam/ AS for obvious reasons. u do drop divine armor when someone is dropping insanely low because of blademaster aggro.
CW is Entangling Force on mastery/StealTime/shield/ray of enfeeblement.
EF hands down is one of the best AP building skill for CWs no question asked and it also disables 1 blademaster out of the 4-6 that spawns. One important thing about using steal time is that dont try to hit every single add with steal time because you will just get aggroed and die, if u hit at least half of the blademasters. no one is going to get oneshotted, and you wont either. Only use shield knockback when u see multiple blademasters on ur dc/see blademaster's focus one person/or when blademaster's about to die for boss heal. knowing how much aggro you can take is the key to the survival of the cw(newly cw yesterday 9.6k gs been on 10 spider runs only downed 1 time during boss)
I tested arcane sing and oppressive force and ice storm. arcane still wins over this one for me. if you arcane to get blademasters and adds away from party you MUST have steal time this will buy you at least 5-7 seconds of your party free dps on boss which forces her to heal and adds will die and wont aggro you. Oppressive is nice and provides a great daze like singularity when it kabooms with steal time. ice storm is very situational i just dont see it being in comparason to arcane and oppressive because it only hits back 5 adds which boss spawns 20-10 when she hits around 25%(and a wonderful 1 shotting phase spider).
Really as long as CW follows a flow chart and sees 2 blademaster's charge and is able to dodge its not a hard dungeon. If steal time on cooldown -> oppressive. if steal time not on cd -> arcane. Position for arcane should just be at edge of the astral shield so that the blademasters doesnt charge you.
TR is really flowcharty... if blademaster jumps you or u see boss with 18k swing attack-> impossible to catch. if stealth is getting depleted -> bait/switch. if no stealth -> shadowstrike. Lurker as much as possible. If bleed is a bad bleed despite having gwf debuffs and ray of enfeeblement -> restack bleed. If TR can't do damage -> get a new TR.
Bait and switch takes off at least 1 blademaster off of your entire party and gives you free ap so why not? you dont need wicked reminder due to u need to constantly keep a 5 stack debuff despite you have 2 insanely strong debuffs from gwf and cw.
GWF is really there for the aoe damage and debuffs other than that he just need to stamina manage for red circle dodging.
with non braindead party even at 9k gs you can still do this dungeon no problem.(only first boss might have a problem if u cant seem to tank under AS considering you have a GWF with unstoppable and TR with impossible to catch)
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Darn, it's a shame that gf's aren't really recommended for this, .
Until Cyptic makes GWF/TR/CW/DC more squishier I do not see GF making a serious contribution(other than damage) in t2 dungeons.... mostly due to the fact that gwf/tr/dc can offtank quite well(Unstoppable/impossibletocatch/astralshield+regen stats + def stat and armor class) and with aid of CW u can pretty much offtank the whole dungeon.
The role of GF in spider is a little bit more complicated, you still want your bullcharge(for the knockback )/ Into the fray for ap and movespeed gain which everyone will love/ Last slot is really optional if your not a complete dps/hybrid tank that deals tons of damage it would be wise to slot reinforced threat(dont try to do too much adds with it but it helps keep adds off ur dc/cw). but mostly i bring a GF when its a friend or a good dps hybrid or pure dps.
GF's roles other than dps.
FH u can either have dc or gf kite.
Pirates is a joke so...cept last boss where everyone needs to be careful of boss's aoe sucky sucky but 2 cws usually do the trick.
spellplague is just kiting for the last boss but then again cws/dcs can do pretty much the same.
DV nobody does dv, cw can just dps down boss from afar.
Spider as top seen its really just the tanking aspect but dps > tank for Spider.
Karrund is a joke too imo really about dodging giant red circles more than anything else. u can run that dungeon with 4 TR and 1 dc and still come out within a decent reasonable amount of time(given that all 4 TR doesnt all stealth simultaneously so that DC gets swarmed).
Edit: I do love a GF in CN makes a solo cw run smoother.
Edit2: It is not that I don't recommend GF, it is just that the contribution provided by the other classes out weighs what GFs bring to spider.
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Darn, it's a shame that gf's aren't really recommended for this, .
This is untrue actually as the gf is very useful for spider if he knows what to do. If you are playing with a shaky group, a gf can use enforced threat/frontline to manage the adds all while maintaining dps on the boss. On the other hand, if playing with a solid group that can handle themselves, you can use knight's challenge/lunging strike and either bull charge or anvil of doom for pure single-target dps (also tide of iron for extra dr mitigation).
From my experiences, having a gf in the group made for the easiest/fastest spider runs, but to each their own.
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's not, i've reviewed videos of myself using shield and she still gets the full heal amount.
repel may work if they go out of a certain (very long) range, due to its massive range push, but requires extreme timing and youll generally only get 1 enemy due to its targeting. Not effective at all in this fight. They tend to spread well for ice storm.
Gonna have to apologize to you on this and others who commented on this thread. I ran ToS 8 times this weekend trying to get a consistent picture of what was happening and here's what I found:
3 runs no matter what KB was used the mobs did NOT die when knocked and the only benefit was getting the Blademasters out of range of the group when they popped. She definitely got the full benefit of all the heals for the mobs.
2 runs they mobs instantly died with any knockback her regen definitely slowed down.
3 of the runs Ice Storm seemed to work when shield knock did not but honestly I couldn't tell if they died instantly or just got knocked out of range of her drain.
I wish I could say I ran with a controlled group, but these were mainly with pugs and different class/powers were definitely used. I don't know if there is some power interaction that influences this or if its just buggy nor do I have any idea what is the intended behavior.
Yep, she'll still heal, even if you pop them. Popping only gives the benefit of no explosions for the party fighting her. Did two more runs last night, and this helps a lot. Of course, you can just run out of range of the red circles to do the same thing, but it saves a little time if they're popped. She'll heal either way. Healing is actually to your benefit, because as you out DPS her heal, it takes some of the adds off of you when she sacrifices them.
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Gonna have to apologize to you on this and others who commented on this thread. I ran ToS 8 times this weekend trying to get a consistent picture of what was happening and here's what I found:
3 runs no matter what KB was used the mobs did NOT die when knocked and the only benefit was getting the Blademasters out of range of the group when they popped. She definitely got the full benefit of all the heals for the mobs.
2 runs they mobs instantly died with any knockback her regen definitely slowed down.
3 of the runs Ice Storm seemed to work when shield knock did not but honestly I couldn't tell if they died instantly or just got knocked out of range of her drain.
I wish I could say I ran with a controlled group, but these were mainly with pugs and different class/powers were definitely used. I don't know if there is some power interaction that influences this or if its just buggy nor do I have any idea what is the intended behavior.
Also ran it again and tried tab repel.
Repel seemed to kinda work too, but they have to be at a pretty extreme range to break the heal link, so it requires very precise timing (they have to die at near maximum range). Ice storms more effective as it simply breaks the link regardless of range.
Though I actually did it without ice storm and just shield, steal time and ray of enfeeblement ,tab repel.
Worked, but mostly because we had a very beast team and 2 strong clerics so I could actually tank the blademasters on my CW (who has 3000 defense after vizier stacks). Your average cw in your average pug simply can't do that, so ice storm or having a GF tank is far more effective. plus we killed her in pretty record time with 2 rather beast rogues so it wasn't really much to cc.
And yea sometimes rarely they don't die at all if you use the kb, as it breaks the AI completely, think thats a bug tho, doesn't happen much in the runs i've done.
Course all this doesn't matter much as the best in slot loot seems to be worth like 9k diamonds now due to the heavy amount of exploiters =/
Comments
It really doesn't.
This fight heavily revolves around dps, if your dps can damage the boss enough you will win the fight. Boss will kill the adds you do not. You can do this dungeon with 1 dc 1 cw 1 tr and still finish run in 30 min(around 10k gs)
Ideal comp for Spider would be:
1 DC obviously
1 CW for getting in more runs/more control/ray of enfeeble
1 GWF for Greater Plaguefire debuff/Defense reduction debuff which makes a measly 10k bleed go up to 16k bleed for the TR.
1 TR for the bleed
1 any other class really maybe not dc.
DC is all about just constantly keep up the heal on your party.
I used Hallowed Ground Heal spec with Sunburst for knockback/ap buildup/ Forgemaster's Flame with the D will allow ur party to be able to eat blademaster spam/ AS for obvious reasons. u do drop divine armor when someone is dropping insanely low because of blademaster aggro.
CW is Entangling Force on mastery/StealTime/shield/ray of enfeeblement.
EF hands down is one of the best AP building skill for CWs no question asked and it also disables 1 blademaster out of the 4-6 that spawns. One important thing about using steal time is that dont try to hit every single add with steal time because you will just get aggroed and die, if u hit at least half of the blademasters. no one is going to get oneshotted, and you wont either. Only use shield knockback when u see multiple blademasters on ur dc/see blademaster's focus one person/or when blademaster's about to die for boss heal. knowing how much aggro you can take is the key to the survival of the cw(newly cw yesterday 9.6k gs been on 10 spider runs only downed 1 time during boss)
I tested arcane sing and oppressive force and ice storm. arcane still wins over this one for me. if you arcane to get blademasters and adds away from party you MUST have steal time this will buy you at least 5-7 seconds of your party free dps on boss which forces her to heal and adds will die and wont aggro you. Oppressive is nice and provides a great daze like singularity when it kabooms with steal time. ice storm is very situational i just dont see it being in comparason to arcane and oppressive because it only hits back 5 adds which boss spawns 20-10 when she hits around 25%(and a wonderful 1 shotting phase spider).
Really as long as CW follows a flow chart and sees 2 blademaster's charge and is able to dodge its not a hard dungeon. If steal time on cooldown -> oppressive. if steal time not on cd -> arcane. Position for arcane should just be at edge of the astral shield so that the blademasters doesnt charge you.
TR is really flowcharty... if blademaster jumps you or u see boss with 18k swing attack-> impossible to catch. if stealth is getting depleted -> bait/switch. if no stealth -> shadowstrike. Lurker as much as possible. If bleed is a bad bleed despite having gwf debuffs and ray of enfeeblement -> restack bleed. If TR can't do damage -> get a new TR.
Bait and switch takes off at least 1 blademaster off of your entire party and gives you free ap so why not? you dont need wicked reminder due to u need to constantly keep a 5 stack debuff despite you have 2 insanely strong debuffs from gwf and cw.
GWF is really there for the aoe damage and debuffs other than that he just need to stamina manage for red circle dodging.
with non braindead party even at 9k gs you can still do this dungeon no problem.(only first boss might have a problem if u cant seem to tank under AS considering you have a GWF with unstoppable and TR with impossible to catch)
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
Until Cyptic makes GWF/TR/CW/DC more squishier I do not see GF making a serious contribution(other than damage) in t2 dungeons.... mostly due to the fact that gwf/tr/dc can offtank quite well(Unstoppable/impossibletocatch/astralshield+regen stats + def stat and armor class) and with aid of CW u can pretty much offtank the whole dungeon.
The role of GF in spider is a little bit more complicated, you still want your bullcharge(for the knockback )/ Into the fray for ap and movespeed gain which everyone will love/ Last slot is really optional if your not a complete dps/hybrid tank that deals tons of damage it would be wise to slot reinforced threat(dont try to do too much adds with it but it helps keep adds off ur dc/cw). but mostly i bring a GF when its a friend or a good dps hybrid or pure dps.
GF's roles other than dps.
FH u can either have dc or gf kite.
Pirates is a joke so...cept last boss where everyone needs to be careful of boss's aoe sucky sucky but 2 cws usually do the trick.
spellplague is just kiting for the last boss but then again cws/dcs can do pretty much the same.
DV nobody does dv, cw can just dps down boss from afar.
Spider as top seen its really just the tanking aspect but dps > tank for Spider.
Karrund is a joke too imo really about dodging giant red circles more than anything else. u can run that dungeon with 4 TR and 1 dc and still come out within a decent reasonable amount of time(given that all 4 TR doesnt all stealth simultaneously so that DC gets swarmed).
Edit: I do love a GF in CN makes a solo cw run smoother.
Edit2: It is not that I don't recommend GF, it is just that the contribution provided by the other classes out weighs what GFs bring to spider.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
This is untrue actually as the gf is very useful for spider if he knows what to do. If you are playing with a shaky group, a gf can use enforced threat/frontline to manage the adds all while maintaining dps on the boss. On the other hand, if playing with a solid group that can handle themselves, you can use knight's challenge/lunging strike and either bull charge or anvil of doom for pure single-target dps (also tide of iron for extra dr mitigation).
From my experiences, having a gf in the group made for the easiest/fastest spider runs, but to each their own.
Gonna have to apologize to you on this and others who commented on this thread. I ran ToS 8 times this weekend trying to get a consistent picture of what was happening and here's what I found:
3 runs no matter what KB was used the mobs did NOT die when knocked and the only benefit was getting the Blademasters out of range of the group when they popped. She definitely got the full benefit of all the heals for the mobs.
2 runs they mobs instantly died with any knockback her regen definitely slowed down.
3 of the runs Ice Storm seemed to work when shield knock did not but honestly I couldn't tell if they died instantly or just got knocked out of range of her drain.
I wish I could say I ran with a controlled group, but these were mainly with pugs and different class/powers were definitely used. I don't know if there is some power interaction that influences this or if its just buggy nor do I have any idea what is the intended behavior.
Also ran it again and tried tab repel.
Repel seemed to kinda work too, but they have to be at a pretty extreme range to break the heal link, so it requires very precise timing (they have to die at near maximum range). Ice storms more effective as it simply breaks the link regardless of range.
Though I actually did it without ice storm and just shield, steal time and ray of enfeeblement ,tab repel.
Worked, but mostly because we had a very beast team and 2 strong clerics so I could actually tank the blademasters on my CW (who has 3000 defense after vizier stacks). Your average cw in your average pug simply can't do that, so ice storm or having a GF tank is far more effective. plus we killed her in pretty record time with 2 rather beast rogues so it wasn't really much to cc.
And yea sometimes rarely they don't die at all if you use the kb, as it breaks the AI completely, think thats a bug tho, doesn't happen much in the runs i've done.
Course all this doesn't matter much as the best in slot loot seems to be worth like 9k diamonds now due to the heavy amount of exploiters =/
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)