Question on using copyrighted material

matcauthon30 · July 2013

I was hoping to make a quest based on a famous battle from my favorite book series, Wheel of Time. Would I be able to do that, or is that against the rules? If I can't, could I just change names slightly so that other WoT fans know what I'm referencing?

zephryl1 · July 2013

I believe since it's "Not for Profit" it'd be fine, but you'd have to take it down if the copyright holders complained.

Alternatively, if you made it a Parody then (As far as I'm aware) you're allowed to use it as much as you want.

Ultimately you'd have to read the Foundry Terms and Conditions, I'm just giving my opinion based on how other stuff works, Cryptic might have their own policies

deimoses · July 2013

zephryl1 wrote: »

I believe since it's "Not for Profit" it'd be fine, but you'd have to take it down if the copyright holders complained.

Alternatively, if you made it a Parody then (As far as I'm aware) you're allowed to use it as much as you want.

Ultimately you'd have to read the Foundry Terms and Conditions, I'm just giving my opinion based on how other stuff works, Cryptic might have their own policies

Non profit really has nothing to do with it.

http://www.publiccounsel.org/tools/publications/files/fairuse.pdf

gornonthecob · July 2013

It isn't non-profit at all. If Cyptic hosts, and allows copy-written material to stay on their server, they become liable. It can easily be argued that, the money they obtain, can be SOMEHOW linked back to one specific quest, and if there is material there that they do not own the rights to, they're screwed.

That's why you can't have names of characters that belong to copy-written material...Legolas, Gandalf, and the 2,000,000 Drizzt Do`Urden's I've seen running around.

redneckronin · July 2013

gornonthecob wrote: »

That's why you can't have names of characters that belong to copy-written material...Legolas, Gandalf, and the 2,000,000 Drizzt Do`Urden's I've seen running around.

In my humble (ok, I'm not that humble at all really) opinion anyone who names an Elf character in ANY MMO "Legolas" (or even close variations of) should be banned from ALL MMOs evar!

LOL!

All The Best

antonkyle · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

In my humble (ok, I'm not that humble at all really) opinion anyone who names an Elf character in ANY MMO "Legolas" (or even close variations of) should be banned from ALL MMOs evar!

LOL!

All The Best

Hey! Dose my Lagoogle count? It was a joke based on this very subject!

kamaliicious · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

In my humble (ok, I'm not that humble at all really) opinion anyone who names an Elf character in ANY MMO "Legolas" (or even close variations of) should be banned from ALL MMOs evar!

LOL!

All The Best

Legolamb from Bored of the Rings disagrees.

redneckronin · July 2013

kamaliicious wrote: »

Legolamb from Bored of the Rings disagrees.

I'd let that one pass, its far cleverer than most.

All The Best

xhrit · July 2013

Copy from one source and it is plagiarism; copy from many sources and it is inspiration.

My own quest is heavily influenced by The Masque of the Red Death, Rosemary's baby, and Lasher. There is also a bit of The Chronicles of Prydain, as well as some War of the Lance, and of course, some Song of Fire and Ice. I even have my own little 'red wedding' where I totally throne the player.

In any case, there is no reason why your quest couldn't be heavily inspired by a famous battle from your favorite book series, Wheel of Time. Just change enough stuff to make sure your quest is paying homage, not outright copying.

matcauthon30 · July 2013

Well this was...sort of enlightening. Here's my dilemma at this point: Plagiarism is direct copying of words and phrases. That's not what I'm proposing to do. And the link about Fair Use is in regards to Non-Profits, organizations that collect money for anything but profit. I obviously have no intention of making money from this, nor is there a way to pay for the user-made Foundry levels. So I do agree that it's not a non-profit, but I don't agree that there is money that would be linked back to it. I was just hoping someone would know the specifics on this.

wuhsin · July 2013

I'm using characters from D&D lore. Since this is a D&D game, that shouldn't be a problem.

matcauthon30 · July 2013

wuhsin wrote: »

I'm using characters from D&D lore. Since this is a D&D game, that shouldn't be a problem.

Wheel of Time isn't related to D&D...

wuhsin · July 2013

matcauthon30 wrote: »

Wheel of Time isn't related to D&D...

I know this. I wouldn't use anything that isn't original or D&D for fear of it getting taken down.

nimmanu · July 2013

As a writer, I will say that, for the most part, you can allude to things... but there are various laws about dilution, etc.

Names are not copyrightable provided they are common ones. For example, I can ALLUDE to Jaimie Lannister by using Jaimie (can't be copyrighted), and Lannus Tir (an example from my own quest). This will hold up in court in the excessively unlikely event that it should become an issue.

What becomes an IP (Intellectual Property) issue is, were I to name a castle under siege by the exact same name as the castle in a book. Under siege by the same general. With the same general opposing him. And the same King inside riding out the siege. In the same land.

So you can safely ALLUDE, but don't COPY. Don't recreate the exact battle scene with the same players. But you can have a gunnery Sargent named Jaimie and a Musketeer next to him named Lannus Tir.... in a world war 1 scene.

Some details can be used. I had an undead guy stand on top of an orc in a WoW fanfiction, while a troll lit them on fire and they terrified the gate guards. Not an exact scene... but an obvious reference / allusion. In fact, obvious enough to be paying homage.

But none of the names were alike, and the wording was different. The races were different.

Allusion is okay. Referencing it is okay. 42 isn't copyrighted... even 42 as the answer to the ultimate question isn't. But if you have a machine giving the answer after millenia of thinking... you're skirting kinda close.

There's no distinct line. No one can sit here and say, "Until you get to THERE, you're fine". You have to use some discretion and ask yourself "is this REFERENCING, or is this COPYING?". If it's COPYING, then it's possibly infringement of IP.

IP infringement will prevent you from being featured.

blureel · July 2013

In regards to not-for-profit here in the foundry, Cryptic would be liable for allowing any copyright violation(s) to be published. Any legal action would be against Cryptic because they are for-profit and the content is published in their for-profit game and game system(s). Therefore, any Foundry quest published, Cryptic is liable for. It doesn't matter who made the quest or what the intent was.

ovaltine74 · July 2013

matcauthon30 wrote: »

Well this was...sort of enlightening. Here's my dilemma at this point: Plagiarism is direct copying of words and phrases. That's not what I'm proposing to do. And the link about Fair Use is in regards to Non-Profits, organizations that collect money for anything but profit. I obviously have no intention of making money from this, nor is there a way to pay for the user-made Foundry levels. So I do agree that it's not a non-profit, but I don't agree that there is money that would be linked back to it. I was just hoping someone would know the specifics on this.

Copyright info is searchable online. If something is copyrighted, you cannot use it, period. If it is not copyrighted, you may still get in trouble for using it if you don't credit the original author and obtain his/or her permission.

Public domain works are also searchable online. Those are works that are considered to be owned by everyone. Using those as an inspiration to your quest is perfectly acceptable. Copying the works word for word would be considered plagiarism, if you claim it is your own words or you omit credit to the original author. Though it is not a crime, it is universally frowned upon. Even using the public domain works you should credit the original author even though he or she is probably long dead.

voxx75 · July 2013

I really think as long as you don't use any character or place names from WoT, you'll be fine. For instance, just name Dumai's Wells to Dumass Wells or something

shefenhow · July 2013

Can you even use D&D names? I thought there was a Foundry competition lately and to be eligible you had to avoid these things. Maybe I am mis-remembering or that was for other reasons...?

eskarine · July 2013

I believe it's ok to make a "tribute" quests - just don't copy the original names, places, crucial facts, etc. Change it enough that it's yours, not just a copy of someone else's work.

matcauthon30 · July 2013

Ok so allusion is definitely the way to go here, and it wouldn't be too difficult to do that, although just a little less fun for me.

This begs the question of how can fan fics be so prevalent yet allowed legally without having issues for using multiple direct references. But that's a debate for another day, and another forum.

matcauthon30 · July 2013

voxx75 wrote: »

I really think as long as you don't use any character or place names from WoT, you'll be fine. For instance, just name Dumai's Wells to Dumass Wells or something

I'm so glad you knew what battle I was referencing!

voxx75 · July 2013

matcauthon30 wrote: »

I'm so glad you knew what battle I was referencing!

Purely a wild guess, sir! Now that I know, I'll definitely be checking out your quest.

nimmanu · July 2013

matcauthon30 wrote: »

Ok so allusion is definitely the way to go here, and it wouldn't be too difficult to do that, although just a little less fun for me. This begs the question of how can fan fics be so prevalent yet allowed legally without having issues for using multiple direct references. But that's a debate for another day, and another forum.

It's not that hard to figure out... most authors just don't care. However, some authors DO care, and sites WILL take them down if asked by authors to do so.

matcauthon30 · July 2013

Weird, I mean, there is Lord of the Rings fanfic, heck even a Web site devoted to them. Yet, as said before, they are pretty serious about their copyrights, even on things as simple as "Middle Earth," "Bilbo," etc. I fail to see how they are staunchly against copyright infringement to the point of copyrighting single words, yet they don't care if you use them ALL of their copyrighted words in a fashion that completely ****s on the original stories with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sex and perverted acts, not to mention the complete lack of originality or narrative skill from those "writers"...

nimmanu · July 2013

It's free publicity, and it's too widespread to combat. Additionally, since those ARE not-for-profit, it would be an extremely hard sell in a court (not to mention, not really worth it). Consider this. If Joe Nobody used your copyrighted name... and he had pretty much his shoes and his car... It simply isn't worth it. It'll cost you more to go after Joe Nobody than you'd ever get from him. Court costs and attorney's fees would leave you poorer than before.

It's small potatoes... versus people who are making money off of doing it.

So yeah. It might be distasteful and it might be inappropriate, but ultimately it's too hard to fight with zero return on the investment of fighting it. In the meantime, they get plenty of free press.

You have to think about it from the standpoint of a corporation. Money wise, fanfiction lawsuits are a dead end and more expense than return.

zebular · July 2013

. . . . . The foundry EULA (End-User License Agreement) can be viewed by pressing the EULA/Terms button on the top right of the Foundry Editor screen. This says what is not acceptable. Because the EULA is subject to change with any patch/update, it is only view-able in-game and therefore I cannot quote it. If you see any pictures of the EULA on the forums, do not take those as being valid as they may be out-dated screenshots.

. . . . . Unfortunately, you'll need to wait until the Foundry is available again to view it. However, you can view the Terms of Service via the link at the bottom of every page in these forums and site. Section "11. User Content" should pretty much cover it - you'll definitely want to read the Foundry's EULA in-game though, once the Foundry is back up. To view the game's specific Terms of Service, you do this by logging out to the account login screen. There will be a "Terms of Service" button on the bottom right. Additionally, when the Terms/EULA changes, you'll get a pop-up prompt like you do when first installing and logging in for the first time.

aschlauderaff · July 2013

Hey I have a quick question regarding something similar. How about Crowd-Published Modules for D&D. I am currently working on a quest that is based on the Isles of Woe ( a Living Greyhawk adventure written for use in the D&D Living Greyhawk campaign, sponsored by the RPGA ). I have been careful to make sure I change names, re-write paragraphs in my own text and make sure nothing is exactly copied.

The reason I am asking is because I plan on making tribute adventures based on Living Greyhawk Modules. Any feedback would be appreciated, and if anyone here has played Isles of Woe back in Living Greyhawk days, I would appreciate any thoughts on it.

Thank you.

zephryl1 · July 2013

Basically, without checking the exact EULA, I can only say that if you have a Disclaimer at the start, stating you don't own any copyrighted material, and the Foundry remains purely Free-to-play content then you should be fine. However, you'd have to keep in mind that at any time Cryptic may decide to pull the Foundry because they're worried, or because the copyright holders send them a Cease and Desist order. Depending on the EULA, it's possible you'd get punished at this time, but you also might not.

Edit:

In regards to aschlauderaff, I'd have to say that falls under the same category as everything else. I would imagine that Cryptic only has limited rights to the world of D&D, and doesn't have the permission to use everything within it. I may be completely wrong of course, but that's how it's likely to be~

matcauthon30 · July 2013

In that case I doubt they (TOR, the publisher) would worry about it being in the Foundry...but I'm sure Cryptic would still mind.

visualkeiuk · July 2013

I was working on bite size Wheel of Time quests on one of my other accounts, but had the same things said, so i had to change it around, and names and such. i don't play that account much as so much to change to not use or break the copyrights..

zebular · July 2013

. . . . . The Moderators can only answer such questions with our interpretation and opinions of the EULA/Terms. We cannot speak for the legal department or make decisions for them. Like-wise, I highly doubt any legal questions will ever be answered publicly. To inquire about legal issues, the only way one can do this is through private communication through either Support or the Contact Us link at the bottom.

. . . . . Anything answered on the Legality of Issues by any non-Staff user (Community Moderators are not "Staff", we're a Volunteer Service, we don't actually "count" as "Staff" except for such mention in our Forum Rules of Conduct), should be taken as opinions and interpretations of the Terms and EULA. The only "power" we Community Moderators have is over the Forum's Rules of Conduct. The RoC is something we Community Moderators can interpret, modify (with approval), and dictate 100%.

. . . . . I am very sorry that we are unable to give you any sort of concrete answer. Alas, the private communication means I stated above would be the only way to get such a definitive answer. I am not saying they would even answer such questions, just saying that this would be the only way they would answer such questions, should they want to, for legal reasons of their own.

Question on using copyrighted material

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