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GWF weapon enchant?
ostliek
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Looking for input on which enchant brings better deeps.
Have Greater Plague fire and Perfect Vorpal atm.
Have Greater Plague fire and Perfect Vorpal atm.
Post edited by ostliek on
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For PVP purposes... thats a different question...
Also it never was +45%, before the change it was 15% all the time, the only thing stacks did was bigger dot damage.
Perfect Vorpal is best now, if you have decent Crit.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
There's always some crazy dude with all tank gear and 15% crit.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
GPF wasn't changed to 3% at all. Also the defense reduction does stack now. The changes in the patch were fixing it to properly remove defense instead of damage resistance, fixing the stacking to 3 and removing the ability for it to stack with other players plaguefires.
As to the OP's question, Vorp is the clear winner.
Have you tested it?
Because I have.
See:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?230252-Metzli-s-Dungeon-DPS-Guide&p=4515691&viewfull=1#post4515691
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
If you're on a budget get whatever version of plaguefire you can afford, it's still good and is usually quite cheap. Once you can afford a normal or better vorp then you can think about changing.
You said that it was 'changed' to 3%. I've tested it in PvP with a friend, with Student of the Sword and 3 stacks of GPF his defense stat was shredded to 10%(45%+45%) of what it originally was whilst the debuffs were up. This was a few patches ago so I'm not sure if you're confusing the damage gain from removing defense against the actual values of reduction?
Would be fun to retest this and see the effect of JUST GPF... Maybe take Sots off your bar and try again to see how much GPF really does in PVP situations... If it was shredded to 10% of his defense that means you would in theory take a GF from 4500 defense to 450 defense which would be about a 30% damage increase on a GF... For lower armor classes it would be much less BUT that would be a HUGE dps boost.
Fresh from the Trade of Blades:
3 Stack GPF:
[7/4 18:37] [Combat (Self)] Your Cleave deals 1145 (1050) Physical to Target Dummy. (Expected result for +9%: 1144,5)
[7/4 18:37] [Combat (Self)] Your Cleave deals 1385 (1271) Physical to Target Dummy. (Expected result for +9%: 1385,39)
Also I tested it before the patch that nerfed it to 9% and it was giving 15% only back then.
Maybe it was stealth nerfed/broken in some patch between your testing and mine.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Damage increase =/= Defense reduction. Pre balance patch it wasn't stacking properly and was removing damage resistance so 15% would be the expected value.
Gaining 3% damage per stack on a dummy doesn't mean that it isn't removing 15% defense per stack. I don't know how defense works in PvE or for NPC's.
I tested Student of the Sword on the training dummies an hour or two ago with a drake weapon and got a linear 5% damage increase per stack, then tested it on some ogres and got the same result. I don't really know what to think.
Real world mobs, so with actual Defence stat.
[7/4 19:03] [Combat (Self)] Your Cleave deals 1843 (1691) Physical to Blademaster. (Expected result for +9%: 1843,19)
[7/4 19:03] [Combat (Self)] Your Cleave deals 1427 (1309) Physical to Blademaster. (Expected result for +9%: 1426,81)
Still gives +9% damage.
As for why SotS isn't giving the proper +45% damage buff, I'm not sure. Probably a bug.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
I wasn't expecting the 45% reduction in defense from SotS to translate directly into +45% damage, that would be absurdly strong.
The reason you saw 15% increase from plaguefire pre balance patch was because it was actually directly reducing damage resistance.
So either effects that say they reduce defense still reduce damage resistance just at a more balanced amount(3% for greater plaguefire, 5% for SOTS). Or it does work on a separate table reducing defense as a stat, but that wouldn't explain the linear damage increase which appears to be the same for all mobs(including the dummy).
It also doesn't explain the tooltip discrepancy since GPF and SotS should be identical in effect.
See my testing above.
-Defence and -Damage Resistance debuffs complement each other like this:
(basedmg+a%)+b%, where either can be a or b.
Yes it makes stacking the different debuffs give considerably more damage.
Also if GPF would only give +3% damage, it would be quite trash compared to Vorpal.
At +9% damage it's a decent contender (but still weaker than Greater/Perfect Vorpal for classes with decent crit).
Perhaps Armor Pen reducing Damage Resist to 0 causes -Defence debuffs to think that Defence is also at 0.
And if you look at this sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj1iYKPu1WmAdGN2NW1ydzFYdkdwUzE5SmRiNGZLVkE#gid=0
500 defence = 11.66%, so perhaps 450 defence = 10%.
Ie. explaining why Valiant 4pc gives +10% damage (it takes the target to -450 defence).
And perhaps the -defence% from GPF/SotS gives a linear damage increase because of some strange interaction with 0 DR.
Ie. it thinks 0 DR = 0 defence. And 0 -9% defence = +9% damage.
Most of it is speculation though.
Alternative theory is that the -defence% debuff actually works like CON/DEX armor pen, but can take targets into negative.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
The only thing uncertain is which comes first -defense or -DR (via arp). If defense comes first taking a GF with ~36% DR from armor at around 4500 and dropping that to 450 defense via GPF and SotS will be an effective ~26% boost in damage... THEN arp might kick in an (max out?) at the remaining percentages of AC+Defense to negate even more... But without testing on things with real armor/DR its gonna be a small DPS boost that GPF gives... I have been told test dummies have 0 DR, dont know about armor so an armor reduction wont do much...
It will also do less to CWs with 2k defense obviously because its % of defense...
And no, it's not 15%, the change was even in the patch notes (not sure why they haven't updated tooltip).
-DR/-Def comes first, otherwise we wouldn't get bonus damage from taking targets into negative DR/Defence via debuffs, since ArP can't take into negative.
The only way to be sure of the effects would be to check it in PvP.
But I don't think they have separate mechanics for PvP and PvE, it wouldn't make sense to have these two mechanics different, while everything else is same in PvP and PvE.
As for real things, the 2nd post with numbers here was done on PvE mobs that have defence and GPF worked on them just like on the dummies.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Greater Lifedrinker is 7% weapon damage.
Even on the Ancient Greatsword, that's a pitiful ~63 damage / life leech per hit...
Compared to Vorpal or GPF, it's not even comparable.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Thanks, and what about the lightning one? Seems to be the most "pure" dps
Lightning is 10/12/18/20% + the 50% chances to jump on normal and higher...
But it's again limited by the fact it's based only on weapon damage.
Perfect would give ~180dmg per hit (+50% chance to jump 3 times).
Would 9% damage from GPF give you more than 180dmg?
As for Perfect Vorpal +50% crit severity is insane if you have good crit.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
goin against low def classs = vorpal better
Actually, whichever way GPF works, Greater or Perfect Vorpal will be better (assuming good crit).
The only question is if GPF is decent (always -9% defence capable of taking targets into negative, equal to 9% damage with 3 stacks) or pretty bad (-9% defence rating = 2000 rating - 9% = 1820 rating left, 180 rating reduced, which is ~1.5%... at that rating level...)
Hmm. Wait. Maybe that's how Defence Works.
It reduces the bonus DR from Defence.
Order of Debuffing/DR reduce:
((Total DR%-Armor Penetration%)-dr% debuffs)-defence%)
f.ex.
((25% DR - 20% Armor Pen)-40%dr from debuffs)-19% defence)
DR is first reduced to 5% by Armor Pen.
Then DR reduction from debuffs takes it to -35%
And then the DR bonus from defence is reduced by -19%.
This would seem to fit the data...
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
That was the answer i was looking for. So i'll look for a perfect vorpal cause i'm so selfish