I agree, there's no reason to play Cleric. It's the worst healer class in MMO history. I quit mine.
[etc...]
You need to realize that NWN is not WoW. There is no mana in NWN, if you hadn't noticed. That's why there are cooldowns.
When I play PvE, I really feel that "leader" role, because I have to keep everyone alive, and if I die, the party will most likely die too.
You're wondering why there is that -40% heal on self, well, have you faced a cleric in 10-59 pvp ? They are very hard to kill. Problem is that it's very different when you play in lvl 60 pvp and Righteousness becomes a serious handicap there. And that is why I rarely pvp with my cleric, because she is heal specced with heal gear and then it's not fun to PVP with her, though it doesn't suck as much as you pretend it. Cleric is way more skill dependent than all the other classes and this goes probably for both pve and pvp (and I also have 60 TR and 60 GF). That's why many clerics feel useless in pvp, the other classes don't need to be skilled to pvp properly, they only need a build and a decent gear. Whereas DC needs a build, a gear, and much skill otherwise he'll be a free kill unable to have any impact on the battleground.
But for PvE, how can you honestly criticize Sunburst ? This power is by far our best power, to me it is even better than Astral Shield. It heals for great amount if you specced and geared correctly, especially with critical heals. Moreover you can spam it every 8sec and it heals the entire group if you place yourself correctly. It is a great AP generator, and a good DP generator. It can also knock off the enemies. I could play my cleric without Astral Shield, but I would be mad if they removed Sunburst.
I have much fun playing cleric in PvE. I like the way healing works on this game. It's different from WoW, it's new, and it's fresh. Of course all my powers are for healing, but well that's the reason why I picked Cleric: for healing. Cleric has so many things to do in battle that you have no time to get borred. Generating Divinity, AP, throwing Astral Seals on each enemy, healing your allies, DPSing with left/right/sunburst when no healing is needed, dodging AOEs... etc.
I think that a good cleric has much impact in a dungeon, and if you feel like cleric sux in PvE healing, then you should work harder and give a look to a different build/different gear.
You need to realize that NWN is not WoW. There is no mana in NWN, if you hadn't noticed. That's why there are cooldowns.
When I play PvE, I really feel that "leader" role, because I have to keep everyone alive, and if I die, the party will most likely die too.
You're wondering why there is that -40% heal on self, well, have you faced a cleric in 10-59 pvp ? They are very hard to kill. Problem is that it's very different when you play in lvl 60 pvp and Righteousness becomes a serious handicap there. And that is why I rarely pvp with my cleric, because she is heal specced with heal gear and then it's not fun to PVP with her, though it doesn't suck as much as you pretend it. Cleric is way more skill dependent than all the other classes and this goes probably for both pve and pvp (and I also have 60 TR and 60 GF). That's why many clerics feel useless in pvp, the other classes don't need to be skilled to pvp properly, they only need a build and a decent gear. Whereas DC needs a build, a gear, and much skill otherwise he'll be a free kill unable to have any impact on the battleground.
But for PvE, how can you honestly criticize Sunburst ? This power is by far our best power, to me it is even better than Astral Shield. It heals for great amount if you specced and geared correctly, especially with critical heals. Moreover you can spam it every 8sec and it heals the entire group if you place yourself correctly. It is a great AP generator, and a good DP generator. It can also knock off the enemies. I could play my cleric without Astral Shield, but I would be mad if they removed Sunburst.
I have much fun playing cleric in PvE. I like the way healing works on this game. It's different from WoW, it's new, and it's fresh. Of course all my powers are for healing, but well that's the reason why I picked Cleric: for healing. Cleric has so many things to do in battle that you have no time to get borred. Gathering Divinity, AP, throwing Astral Seals on each enemy, healing your allies, DPSing with left/right/sunburst when no healing is needed, dodging AOEs... etc.
I think that a good cleric has much impact in a dungeon, and if you feel like cleric sux in PvE healing, then you should work harder and give a look to a different build/different gear.
I enjoy my divine but i think we need some dev love. A few more spells, A couple of tweaks to current ones and a damage buff. I also think the 3 paths could use some adjusting. Nothing to extreme just some fine tuning to make it that much more fun..
A freaking healer class that can out heal any damage, with massive CC abilities and the ability to kill someone in 1 vs 1 (Without even having the urge to hit the dodge key).
Also can heal the entire team while standing in the middle like a wall, not dodging or anything, out healing every DPS hitting them.
Dc is the worst class in pvp at this time. I have no heal to defend against 23k crit in the face and my dmg is very puny, although I selected the virtuous path.
Either you fix the DC or nerf the troublemakers of pvp.
And for those that disagree... PLAY A DC TO SEE IT FOR YOURSELF!!!!
P.S PVE is hell as well. Every time I have to run from even the lowlife of adds just to survive. NOT HEAL MYSELF OR TEAMMATES but to survive..
Hi I hit a cleric recently for 23k if it was you I am not sorry. Just want to let you know you aren't supposed to heal threw damage. Your team is supposed to protect you and peel players off. You heal your team they peel Dps off you is how it works. You are a support class. Key word SUPPORT. If you don't want to support your team then I suggest to not play a Cleric.
A freaking healer class that can out heal any damage, with massive CC abilities and the ability to kill someone in 1 vs 1 (Without even having the urge to hit the dodge key).
Also can heal the entire team while standing in the middle like a wall, not dodging or anything, out healing every DPS hitting them.
Why don't you roll a freaking super man then?
That would be terrible and I would quit. Stop no more scary talk. Reminds me of WoW and that game is aweful.
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unicornmdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 23Arc User
I guess I've tried to go about this the nicest most professional way, but you people are dense and dont quite seem to get logic.
I've stated in many posts my build, my gear, my stats, my enchants.
Again, I will say it just for you, because of how simple you seem to be.
I am using rank FIVE, --->5<
Enchants. Thats 5...thats 1 less then 6, and 1 more then 4.
And Lesser armor, and weapon enchants. Lesser as in, the bottom of the barrel.
I am using Miracle healers Set 4/4. Which is disgustingly cheap to buy on the Ah, OOOOOR...Like me, you can earn them, by doing dungeons, and dungeon delves.
I am using the Castle Never 2/2 weapon set, which I earned by running Castle Never.
I am using Ancient rings, which I acquired again, by running Castle Never.
So..by explaining again for you, my gear, in the most simplest of terms, if you still do not understand that 1.)I did not use real life $$ to buy anything, cuz if i did i would have rank 7 and greater, and 2.)Clerics area awesome, if the player playing them doesnt suck. If you still dont understand, which I'm sure that you wont. You should quit playing the DC, obviously you cannot handle the class.
Main thing is I think we do alright. I read everything in then cleric forum, the way to do well in PvP and pve is through careful feat selection. I don't know so much about other classes, but the PvP tree for cleric feats is a joke. Faithful is the way to go. The virtuous branch lags behind a bit. For us PvP is a team effort. If you roll with 5 people a cleric turns the group into a raging horde.
To sum it up, we have some weak skills that need a little buff, and people have to see what other clerics are doing. In PvP or pve right now your skill set needs to focus on healing. Our offensive skills don't even compare to other classes. So stick to debuffs shields and heals. ATM its what we are good at. Healers aren't killers, but we make killers into serial killers :-)
BTW shout out to munkey and cyclop. Love your guides.
I'm pretty sure that munkey's gear is still better than 95-99% of the DC players on mindflayer.
Best possible weapon/offhand in the game? Check.
Best rings, too? Check.
4/4 T2 armour that is the least stupid DC armour available? Check.
Has weapon and armour enchants at all? Check.
It almost certainly true that he's also very good at playing, but gear helps a lot.
And being very good is not the same as "not sucking". Basically every other class can perform acceptably in PvP with a modicum of skill and a mix of blues/greens/purps. DCs need much more skill, decent gear, AND A GOOD TEAM to perform acceptably or better.
I've caps'd that last point because it is critical. Unless you're super-geared and feated for PvP, you will usually lose any 1v1. You certainly won't WIN many because you have mediocre damage output and don't have a lot of CC (I've come incredibly close to killing TRs & CWs many times only to have them Daze/CC and run away).
But you shouldn't be trying to win 1v1s. With a good team, you should never be in that position. A team of 4 that works together can beat a team of 5 that doesn't. You can even use the legendary "lol free kill" status of the DC to your advantage, because in any group fight the other team will all be trying to gank you first. Stick some heals down up front and power through all the CC/Daze/knockback/knockdown/permastun and you've just occupied the entire other team for 30 seconds, while your team has been getting free combat advantage. Sure, you'll usually die eventually, but by that point your team is still otherwise fine, whereas the opponents have been getting smashed in the backsides for 30 seconds.
So yeah, you're automatically at a disadvantage against every other class. Don't expect to 1v1, don't expect to top the score boards, plan on dying a lot, but just go out and support your team and maybe 1 time in 3 or 4, they'll get it, and support you back, and it's actually pretty rewarding.
If they buff heals or remove righteousness, you better call the cleric class the god class, because dying would mean the player is completely incompetent.
Thinking the class is weak is really arrogant. It means you can't fail at something.
If they buff heals or remove righteousness, you better call the cleric class the god class, because dying would mean the player is completely incompetent.
Thinking the class is weak is really arrogant. It means you can't fail at something.
Uh....right. So if I tried to kill a tank with a stick, the problem there isn't that "a stick is a poor choice of antitank weapon", it's that "I suck at stickfighting tanks"?
Things are not anywhere near as simple as you like to think.
I guess I've tried to go about this the nicest most professional way, but you people are dense and dont quite seem to get logic.
I've stated in many posts my build, my gear, my stats, my enchants.
Again, I will say it just for you, because of how simple you seem to be.
I am using rank FIVE, --->5<
Enchants. Thats 5...thats 1 less then 6, and 1 more then 4.
And Lesser armor, and weapon enchants. Lesser as in, the bottom of the barrel.
I am using Miracle healers Set 4/4. Which is disgustingly cheap to buy on the Ah, OOOOOR...Like me, you can earn them, by doing dungeons, and dungeon delves.
I am using the Castle Never 2/2 weapon set, which I earned by running Castle Never.
I am using Ancient rings, which I acquired again, by running Castle Never.
So..by explaining again for you, my gear, in the most simplest of terms, if you still do not understand that 1.)I did not use real life $$ to buy anything, cuz if i did i would have rank 7 and greater, and 2.)Clerics area awesome, if the player playing them doesnt suck. If you still dont understand, which I'm sure that you wont. You should quit playing the DC, obviously you cannot handle the class.
I don't think that they are a bad healing class, they are just different and take some work to master. Most of those skills and abilities are based on the DnD counterpart, because this game is inspired off DnD (won't say based). If you didn't or don't play DnD then you may not completely understand.
HOWEVER, I do agree that their heals need to be beefed up a bit.
Why comment if you dont even play the class. In almostbevery pug im in the DC gets targeted asap and nuked down.
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unicornmdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 23Arc User
Why comment if you dont even play the class. In almostbevery pug im in the DC gets targeted asap and nuked down.
Lol pugs. Haven't done that in a game in awhile. Unless I want to waste my time with incompetent people. Which is never. Group of strangers probably would walk by me bleeding out on the street, I wouldn't expect them to care to work as a team in pvp.
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I guess I've tried to go about this the nicest most professional way, but you people are dense and dont quite seem to get logic.
I've stated in many posts my build, my gear, my stats, my enchants.
Again, I will say it just for you, because of how simple you seem to be.
I am using rank FIVE, --->5<
Enchants. Thats 5...thats 1 less then 6, and 1 more then 4.
And Lesser armor, and weapon enchants. Lesser as in, the bottom of the barrel.
I am using Miracle healers Set 4/4. Which is disgustingly cheap to buy on the Ah, OOOOOR...Like me, you can earn them, by doing dungeons, and dungeon delves.
I am using the Castle Never 2/2 weapon set, which I earned by running Castle Never.
I am using Ancient rings, which I acquired again, by running Castle Never.
So..by explaining again for you, my gear, in the most simplest of terms, if you still do not understand that 1.)I did not use real life $$ to buy anything, cuz if i did i would have rank 7 and greater, and 2.)Clerics area awesome, if the player playing them doesnt suck. If you still dont understand, which I'm sure that you wont. You should quit playing the DC, obviously you cannot handle the class.
By "running " Castle Never you ment to say " exploiting " . And why would you need $ to buy anything , if you can just do " fast runs " of CN all day .
I bet people like you won't even get to 11k without exploiting .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
Uh....right. So if I tried to kill a tank with a stick, the problem there isn't that "a stick is a poor choice of antitank weapon", it's that "I suck at stickfighting tanks"?
Things are not anywhere near as simple as you like to think.
The DC class is fine and i see people (including myself) doing well with the class, in pve or pvp. You are failing at something but don't admit it, and blame the game instead of questioning how you play your character.
Ok, so by your assessment, if 50% of a population of players can do well in a class, that class is fine, but if only 10% of a population of players can do well in another class, that class is also fine, AND INDEED THE TWO ARE BALANCED?
You're just not getting the whole disconnect between "I HAVE NO PROBLEMS" and "THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS".
It's like saying "I run all my polluted tap water through a filter, because I'm just THAT good, therefore there is no problem with the fact that the tap water is polluted."
Of course im supposed to heal threw dmg thats what A HEALER IS ...why should your dmg be greater than my heal....the point of heal is to keep ppl alive so if I can't outmatch a player's dmg then forget dungeon bosses. 23k is a slap in the face compared to my 2k heal from bastion of health or another abilities. Do you think this is fair? Besides I am full pvp gear 2 blues and 2 purples adn all 5 rank enchanments so I'm not so poorly dressed for this frack fest. If i suck that's because I didn't spend hundred of dollars just to be "someone" in this game.
They did recently fix a bunch of broken **** on DC. Really, it was in very sorry state for a long time.
Like, divine glow used to buff enemy defenses, and when used in divinity mode it would debuff ally's attack power. Stuff like that.
I personally think the class is playable, but is not by any means fabulous, like some people insist.
Part of it is that DC is much more dependent on teamwork than any other class, so if a team is ****ty, DC is the one that is going to notice the negative impact first and foremost. Even that has improved though, over pre patch when the aggro model for the game was: ":O a cleric!!! get 'im!!!"
By "running " Castle Never you ment to say " exploiting " . And why would you need $ to buy anything , if you can just do " fast runs " of CN all day .
I bet people like you won't even get to 11k without exploiting .
My first 30 runs of Castle Never were complete full runs. After all the exploiting started happening, i.e, jumping through the window. I stopped doing Castle Never. I havent done a CN run in about 3 weeks.
It took me 25 runs to get my 2/2 weapon set, and at 29 I had both my Ancient Rings.
Not sure why you even mentioned $$. I've never paid $$ to get gear. I bought the founders pack to support the game, get the extra character slots and the cool spider mount. I still have the beginning AD I started with from the HoTN pack. About the only actual AD I've spent in this game, is to buy some friends some new gear when they hit 60.
Up until about 4 days ago, I never once, did a premade. Did I get steam rolled in some groups? Of course, doesnt matter what kind of gear, or what kind of skill you have, (other then those rare 1 vs 1), if you have an absolute terrible team, you are going to get worked over. Its PvP, and everyone dies, if you want to rage when you get CC'd, or 100% locked, well...stop playing PvP. Its going to happen.
I've been sitting at 25k glory for quite some time now(too lazy to buy and sell gear), I PvP constantly, because its fun. Its fun in a premade, and its fun in a pug. I've never had the problems in PvP that most of you guys are talking about. Many people are saying you are only good if your group is protecting you. I dont see that. In a 1 vs 1, against any class, its so very rare I actually get beat. Our cleric class heals extremely well when played right. I am 99% of every single match, right in the middle of all the bad guys moving around and healing the **** out of my team, and making other class's rage because they cant seem to focus me enough. If you have read my post on my build, you will know that I use sunburst. Not only does it do a great amount of dmg AoE, it also is one of my biggest spells to heal with. Does gear help? Of course it does. But as you all know, pvp isnt that balanced, dmg is through the roof on some class's, theres no diminishing returns, and the pvp gear is a joke. Pvp gear needs to have resistances, there needs to be DR.
If you go back through the posts that I have made, since day 1, I have been defending the cleric class. We "are" viable when played right guys. Alot of issues is really just that, L2P. The DC class is by no means "easy" to play. It is the hardest class in the game to master, which is why there are so many forums flooded with tears of clerics, and people quitting the class. Thats fine, DC isnt for everyone. People want to talk about doing damage as a cleric. Well, imo, that is your first problem. You are a cleric. You heal, this isnt WoW, this isnt Rift with 5 dif builds. We are healers, that is what we "are" good at. If you have any mmo experience, especially any PvP experience, you will know that every single healing class, will ALWAYS, be focused by other smart players. So spec'ing, and feating to do damage is your first mistake. I think of the DC the same way I remember the "Cleric" in Everquest 1. It was a cleric, they healed great, but had mediocre damage. Real clerics, dont give a **** about doing damage, its not your role. Focus more on learning how to heal and survive, and I guarantee you will start doing better as a DC.
As far as gear goes. If you are lvl 60, and in full greens, you are doing something wrong, and IMO you are a new, or novice player when it comes to mmo's. If you play the auction house for even a couple minutes everytime you log on, while you are leveling, there is no reason why by the time you are lvl 60, you shouldnt have around 80k AD. With 80k ad, and a little shopping, you can have a full set of purple gear the minute you hit 60, and have a GS of over 10k. This lately has been the only real thing thats been irritating me reading on these forums. Gear....is.....not.....hard......to......get, and you dont need to pay real life $$ for it.
People also complaining about Q times. Well, I have never Q'd for a dungeon, nor will I. Is it any differant when so so is /z asking for a DC? I spose not, because you dont know the skill of the players, but...you wont be waiting in a Q for god knows how long, and generally the person asking for a class, is building a good team, or atleast the correct team. So, stop using the Q system, it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and will 99% of the time, always end up in a fail group.
I am all about giving suggestions on everything that I do. As you guys have noticed, I am not making it a secret who my characters are, or what server they are on. I have no special secrets. Do I think I'm the best player in all of the entire world? Of course not, just like in life, there is ALWAYS someone better then you. Do I count myself among the Elite players? Absolutely. I have many years playing mmo's, and playing PvP, and that helps out alot. My end state is this. I will not, ever talk **** about someone, or how they play, if they are trying to get better, or asking suggestions, I will not say you suck, your bad, your dumb, you should quit, l2p. BUT, if you flood these forums saying the DC is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and it sucks because "you" cant seem to get it, then I have nothing for ya. People are doing very well at this class. Just because "you" are having a problem, along with the very fiew others on this forum, doesnt mean the class is broken. What you need to realize is that yes, there are many complaints on "this" forum. I guarantee you, that not even a 1/3 of the population, actually even reads this forum. So yes, these cleric complaints are on a small scale. When/if they ever do actually buff us, the next thing you will see on the forums is every other class crying because clerics are unstoppable and unkillable in pvp.
There is always going to be complaints in any game. Either learn to deal with them and train yourself, pick a new class, or pick a new game. I guarantee you it is going to be the same, in any game that you play.
level 60 pvp sucks until you are geared END OF STORY.. This is not about a class being lame etc. This is about a game where highly geared and enchanted people just destroy those that are less geared.
This has been the issue in many games with end level pvp
That is why I loved DAOC so much before Trials of Atlantis came out for everyone was basically evenly geared at end game and skill alone was the determining factor. To many games though have gone away from that and to those of us who do not have deep pockets or really nice guilds to fall back on we struggle no matter HOW good we are.
I bet people like you won't even get to 11k without exploiting .
Forgot to comment on this. GS is silly in this game. I bought my friend Wrath a full set of Glory-PvP gear when he hit 60. His gear score was 11.3k. You dont need to exploit to get a good gear score, you just need to get the "right" gear. It isnt hard to get a 10k+ score. In the future, atleast know what you are talking about before you start calling people "exploiters". You are out of your element
Forgot to comment on this. GS is silly in this game. I bought my friend Wrath a full set of Glory-PvP gear when he hit 60. His gear score was 11.3k. You dont need to exploit to get a good gear score, you just need to get the "right" gear. It isnt hard to get a 10k+ score.
Was he a GF? Coz actual build/class makes a huge difference, what with all the stat buffs and stuff. I got full PvP gear when I hit 60 (coz woo purps for just flailing around keeping ungrateful TRs alive for ten mins lol) and my GS was around 7.5-8k depending on which rings I used.
Doesn't mean GS isn't silly, of course.
Anyway, point is, you're a self-confessed 'elite' player with the credibility to back it up, which means you don't get to tell people to "l2p nubs" without coming across as a massive ******. If your argument boils down to "DC isn't broken, you just need to be an expert player to be 'ok+' as a DC" then your argument is worthless in terms of game balance. TRs can be 'OK' by simply putting a weight on LMB and pointing toward enemy (nb, TRs: I am aware that playing a TR well is vastly more effective).
Being an expert shouldn't be a requirement, it should be an advantage. As it is, if you know what you're doing and have decent gear and ideally have a pet GF backing you up, you can do ok in PvP, but without those things, you can get facerolled incredibly easily. And (and I cannot stress this enough) DCs are the only class to which this applies.
Yes, I am totally with you that "you need skillz to play this class", but that should never, ever, be something that applies to one class only. You need to either make all classes "acceptable" at a mediocre skill level, but good at a better skill level, or make all classes "mediocre" at a mediocre skill level and good at a better skill level. The idea that some classes are faceroll classes and some classes are 1337skillz classes is absolutely the a priori definition of game imbalance, and you, particularly, being great at playing the latter does not justify the former.
So basically, long story short (TL DR LOLZ): DCs are still gimped, but as a good DC, you don't get to tell people to L2P without coming across as a massive ******. Instead you should be linking people to your build and giving general DC advice.
...Like I try to (and I'm not even that good). Helpful and non-elitist trumps any kind of "L2P NUB", every time.
clerics are a pain to kill in pvp at times for the fact that they can heal. Even with thier healing on themselves reduce, its still a heal regardless, which no other class has available to them.
the only problem in pvp is at 60 when it is essentially a few shot fests. The damage needs to be scaled down across the board at 60+
WTF are u talkin about the DC best heals are HoTs if u cant finish someone of with a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Heal over time ur worthless.
Part of the game mechanics is that you need to kite adds and have a competent team that will take care of them. It's not the usual heal/sit and meditate heal class that most people are accustomed to.
"Either you fix the DC or nerf the troublemakers of pvp."
I think this is your main frustration. A good pvp team will protect their DC, and a good DC will know he's going to be targeted and take precautions. Baiting the other team is part of that strategy.
I've leveled a DC and know from personal experience that just like any class, a good team is what makes or breaks pvp or pve.
level 60 pvp sucks until you are geared END OF STORY.. This is not about a class being lame etc. This is about a game where highly geared and enchanted people just destroy those that are less geared.
This has been the issue in many games with end level pvp
That is why I loved DAOC so much before Trials of Atlantis came out for everyone was basically evenly geared at end game and skill alone was the determining factor. To many games though have gone away from that and to those of us who do not have deep pockets or really nice guilds to fall back on we struggle no matter HOW good we are.
No true. The moment I hit 60 with my GWF, picked up a decent T1 weapon from the guild bank, I pwnd in PvP, got the highest score everytime. Not the same story if you're a Cleric.
Respec to DPS if you're low geared, Clerics have extremly high base dmg if you use the right rotation. They are quit tricky to play tho, since they don't have the CC of a CW or the imidate burst of a TR. It's all about stacking up dots and finish of with Channel Divinity. They have the best mobilliy however since they are able to move and fire their At will. The people managing healing clerics in pvp in general have end game gear.
In full t2 pvp gear ive met clerics standing there taking my damage as a champ, while healing up himself and his surrounding teammates. You need atleast 2 dps on a decent cleric to get him down. So i have no idea what you are doing wrong
did you know that if you move, you don't get hit by melee classes? don't just stand there
stay out of range for ranged classes and in range to heal your team and if you are being attacked by someone at range, put one of your teammate between you and the attacker, which should not be so hard since you should always be with your team and not alone.. i've seen my targets use this tactic, making it hard for me to finish them off, because I hit their teammates instead, it really works
also, nodes give you more points than kills, if your team wins you get rewarded
why this desire to kill everything?
you are a support class, support.
and always remember, a moving target is harder to kill
I don't get why people stand in one place when you daze them, just because you can't use your abilities does not mean you can't move
Comments
You need to realize that NWN is not WoW. There is no mana in NWN, if you hadn't noticed. That's why there are cooldowns.
When I play PvE, I really feel that "leader" role, because I have to keep everyone alive, and if I die, the party will most likely die too.
You're wondering why there is that -40% heal on self, well, have you faced a cleric in 10-59 pvp ? They are very hard to kill. Problem is that it's very different when you play in lvl 60 pvp and Righteousness becomes a serious handicap there. And that is why I rarely pvp with my cleric, because she is heal specced with heal gear and then it's not fun to PVP with her, though it doesn't suck as much as you pretend it. Cleric is way more skill dependent than all the other classes and this goes probably for both pve and pvp (and I also have 60 TR and 60 GF). That's why many clerics feel useless in pvp, the other classes don't need to be skilled to pvp properly, they only need a build and a decent gear. Whereas DC needs a build, a gear, and much skill otherwise he'll be a free kill unable to have any impact on the battleground.
But for PvE, how can you honestly criticize Sunburst ? This power is by far our best power, to me it is even better than Astral Shield. It heals for great amount if you specced and geared correctly, especially with critical heals. Moreover you can spam it every 8sec and it heals the entire group if you place yourself correctly. It is a great AP generator, and a good DP generator. It can also knock off the enemies. I could play my cleric without Astral Shield, but I would be mad if they removed Sunburst.
I have much fun playing cleric in PvE. I like the way healing works on this game. It's different from WoW, it's new, and it's fresh. Of course all my powers are for healing, but well that's the reason why I picked Cleric: for healing. Cleric has so many things to do in battle that you have no time to get borred. Generating Divinity, AP, throwing Astral Seals on each enemy, healing your allies, DPSing with left/right/sunburst when no healing is needed, dodging AOEs... etc.
I think that a good cleric has much impact in a dungeon, and if you feel like cleric sux in PvE healing, then you should work harder and give a look to a different build/different gear.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Thank you, well said.
A freaking healer class that can out heal any damage, with massive CC abilities and the ability to kill someone in 1 vs 1 (Without even having the urge to hit the dodge key).
Also can heal the entire team while standing in the middle like a wall, not dodging or anything, out healing every DPS hitting them.
Why don't you roll a freaking super man then?
Hi I hit a cleric recently for 23k if it was you I am not sorry. Just want to let you know you aren't supposed to heal threw damage. Your team is supposed to protect you and peel players off. You heal your team they peel Dps off you is how it works. You are a support class. Key word SUPPORT. If you don't want to support your team then I suggest to not play a Cleric.
That would be terrible and I would quit. Stop no more scary talk. Reminds me of WoW and that game is aweful.
Main thing is I think we do alright. I read everything in then cleric forum, the way to do well in PvP and pve is through careful feat selection. I don't know so much about other classes, but the PvP tree for cleric feats is a joke. Faithful is the way to go. The virtuous branch lags behind a bit. For us PvP is a team effort. If you roll with 5 people a cleric turns the group into a raging horde.
To sum it up, we have some weak skills that need a little buff, and people have to see what other clerics are doing. In PvP or pve right now your skill set needs to focus on healing. Our offensive skills don't even compare to other classes. So stick to debuffs shields and heals. ATM its what we are good at. Healers aren't killers, but we make killers into serial killers :-)
BTW shout out to munkey and cyclop. Love your guides.
Best possible weapon/offhand in the game? Check.
Best rings, too? Check.
4/4 T2 armour that is the least stupid DC armour available? Check.
Has weapon and armour enchants at all? Check.
It almost certainly true that he's also very good at playing, but gear helps a lot.
And being very good is not the same as "not sucking". Basically every other class can perform acceptably in PvP with a modicum of skill and a mix of blues/greens/purps. DCs need much more skill, decent gear, AND A GOOD TEAM to perform acceptably or better.
I've caps'd that last point because it is critical. Unless you're super-geared and feated for PvP, you will usually lose any 1v1. You certainly won't WIN many because you have mediocre damage output and don't have a lot of CC (I've come incredibly close to killing TRs & CWs many times only to have them Daze/CC and run away).
But you shouldn't be trying to win 1v1s. With a good team, you should never be in that position. A team of 4 that works together can beat a team of 5 that doesn't. You can even use the legendary "lol free kill" status of the DC to your advantage, because in any group fight the other team will all be trying to gank you first. Stick some heals down up front and power through all the CC/Daze/knockback/knockdown/permastun and you've just occupied the entire other team for 30 seconds, while your team has been getting free combat advantage. Sure, you'll usually die eventually, but by that point your team is still otherwise fine, whereas the opponents have been getting smashed in the backsides for 30 seconds.
So yeah, you're automatically at a disadvantage against every other class. Don't expect to 1v1, don't expect to top the score boards, plan on dying a lot, but just go out and support your team and maybe 1 time in 3 or 4, they'll get it, and support you back, and it's actually pretty rewarding.
Or just do teamspeak premades, I guess.
And obviously, get the best gear you can.
Thinking the class is weak is really arrogant. It means you can't fail at something.
Uh....right. So if I tried to kill a tank with a stick, the problem there isn't that "a stick is a poor choice of antitank weapon", it's that "I suck at stickfighting tanks"?
Things are not anywhere near as simple as you like to think.
Do you premade or pug?
Why comment if you dont even play the class. In almostbevery pug im in the DC gets targeted asap and nuked down.
Lol pugs. Haven't done that in a game in awhile. Unless I want to waste my time with incompetent people. Which is never. Group of strangers probably would walk by me bleeding out on the street, I wouldn't expect them to care to work as a team in pvp.
By "running " Castle Never you ment to say " exploiting " . And why would you need $ to buy anything , if you can just do " fast runs " of CN all day .
I bet people like you won't even get to 11k without exploiting .
The DC class is fine and i see people (including myself) doing well with the class, in pve or pvp. You are failing at something but don't admit it, and blame the game instead of questioning how you play your character.
You're just not getting the whole disconnect between "I HAVE NO PROBLEMS" and "THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS".
It's like saying "I run all my polluted tap water through a filter, because I'm just THAT good, therefore there is no problem with the fact that the tap water is polluted."
Like, divine glow used to buff enemy defenses, and when used in divinity mode it would debuff ally's attack power. Stuff like that.
I personally think the class is playable, but is not by any means fabulous, like some people insist.
Part of it is that DC is much more dependent on teamwork than any other class, so if a team is ****ty, DC is the one that is going to notice the negative impact first and foremost. Even that has improved though, over pre patch when the aggro model for the game was: ":O a cleric!!! get 'im!!!"
My first 30 runs of Castle Never were complete full runs. After all the exploiting started happening, i.e, jumping through the window. I stopped doing Castle Never. I havent done a CN run in about 3 weeks.
It took me 25 runs to get my 2/2 weapon set, and at 29 I had both my Ancient Rings.
Not sure why you even mentioned $$. I've never paid $$ to get gear. I bought the founders pack to support the game, get the extra character slots and the cool spider mount. I still have the beginning AD I started with from the HoTN pack. About the only actual AD I've spent in this game, is to buy some friends some new gear when they hit 60.
Up until about 4 days ago, I never once, did a premade. Did I get steam rolled in some groups? Of course, doesnt matter what kind of gear, or what kind of skill you have, (other then those rare 1 vs 1), if you have an absolute terrible team, you are going to get worked over. Its PvP, and everyone dies, if you want to rage when you get CC'd, or 100% locked, well...stop playing PvP. Its going to happen.
I've been sitting at 25k glory for quite some time now(too lazy to buy and sell gear), I PvP constantly, because its fun. Its fun in a premade, and its fun in a pug. I've never had the problems in PvP that most of you guys are talking about. Many people are saying you are only good if your group is protecting you. I dont see that. In a 1 vs 1, against any class, its so very rare I actually get beat. Our cleric class heals extremely well when played right. I am 99% of every single match, right in the middle of all the bad guys moving around and healing the **** out of my team, and making other class's rage because they cant seem to focus me enough. If you have read my post on my build, you will know that I use sunburst. Not only does it do a great amount of dmg AoE, it also is one of my biggest spells to heal with. Does gear help? Of course it does. But as you all know, pvp isnt that balanced, dmg is through the roof on some class's, theres no diminishing returns, and the pvp gear is a joke. Pvp gear needs to have resistances, there needs to be DR.
If you go back through the posts that I have made, since day 1, I have been defending the cleric class. We "are" viable when played right guys. Alot of issues is really just that, L2P. The DC class is by no means "easy" to play. It is the hardest class in the game to master, which is why there are so many forums flooded with tears of clerics, and people quitting the class. Thats fine, DC isnt for everyone. People want to talk about doing damage as a cleric. Well, imo, that is your first problem. You are a cleric. You heal, this isnt WoW, this isnt Rift with 5 dif builds. We are healers, that is what we "are" good at. If you have any mmo experience, especially any PvP experience, you will know that every single healing class, will ALWAYS, be focused by other smart players. So spec'ing, and feating to do damage is your first mistake. I think of the DC the same way I remember the "Cleric" in Everquest 1. It was a cleric, they healed great, but had mediocre damage. Real clerics, dont give a **** about doing damage, its not your role. Focus more on learning how to heal and survive, and I guarantee you will start doing better as a DC.
As far as gear goes. If you are lvl 60, and in full greens, you are doing something wrong, and IMO you are a new, or novice player when it comes to mmo's. If you play the auction house for even a couple minutes everytime you log on, while you are leveling, there is no reason why by the time you are lvl 60, you shouldnt have around 80k AD. With 80k ad, and a little shopping, you can have a full set of purple gear the minute you hit 60, and have a GS of over 10k. This lately has been the only real thing thats been irritating me reading on these forums. Gear....is.....not.....hard......to......get, and you dont need to pay real life $$ for it.
People also complaining about Q times. Well, I have never Q'd for a dungeon, nor will I. Is it any differant when so so is /z asking for a DC? I spose not, because you dont know the skill of the players, but...you wont be waiting in a Q for god knows how long, and generally the person asking for a class, is building a good team, or atleast the correct team. So, stop using the Q system, it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and will 99% of the time, always end up in a fail group.
I am all about giving suggestions on everything that I do. As you guys have noticed, I am not making it a secret who my characters are, or what server they are on. I have no special secrets. Do I think I'm the best player in all of the entire world? Of course not, just like in life, there is ALWAYS someone better then you. Do I count myself among the Elite players? Absolutely. I have many years playing mmo's, and playing PvP, and that helps out alot. My end state is this. I will not, ever talk **** about someone, or how they play, if they are trying to get better, or asking suggestions, I will not say you suck, your bad, your dumb, you should quit, l2p. BUT, if you flood these forums saying the DC is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and it sucks because "you" cant seem to get it, then I have nothing for ya. People are doing very well at this class. Just because "you" are having a problem, along with the very fiew others on this forum, doesnt mean the class is broken. What you need to realize is that yes, there are many complaints on "this" forum. I guarantee you, that not even a 1/3 of the population, actually even reads this forum. So yes, these cleric complaints are on a small scale. When/if they ever do actually buff us, the next thing you will see on the forums is every other class crying because clerics are unstoppable and unkillable in pvp.
There is always going to be complaints in any game. Either learn to deal with them and train yourself, pick a new class, or pick a new game. I guarantee you it is going to be the same, in any game that you play.
Barabus The Gray DC
X.o.X.o
Mindflayer
Devlin The Wicked CW
X.o.X.o
Mindflayer
This has been the issue in many games with end level pvp
That is why I loved DAOC so much before Trials of Atlantis came out for everyone was basically evenly geared at end game and skill alone was the determining factor. To many games though have gone away from that and to those of us who do not have deep pockets or really nice guilds to fall back on we struggle no matter HOW good we are.
Forgot to comment on this. GS is silly in this game. I bought my friend Wrath a full set of Glory-PvP gear when he hit 60. His gear score was 11.3k. You dont need to exploit to get a good gear score, you just need to get the "right" gear. It isnt hard to get a 10k+ score. In the future, atleast know what you are talking about before you start calling people "exploiters". You are out of your element
Barabus The Gray DC
X.o.X.o
Mindflayer
Devlin The Wicked CW
X.o.X.o
Mindflayer
Was he a GF? Coz actual build/class makes a huge difference, what with all the stat buffs and stuff. I got full PvP gear when I hit 60 (coz woo purps for just flailing around keeping ungrateful TRs alive for ten mins lol) and my GS was around 7.5-8k depending on which rings I used.
Doesn't mean GS isn't silly, of course.
Anyway, point is, you're a self-confessed 'elite' player with the credibility to back it up, which means you don't get to tell people to "l2p nubs" without coming across as a massive ******. If your argument boils down to "DC isn't broken, you just need to be an expert player to be 'ok+' as a DC" then your argument is worthless in terms of game balance. TRs can be 'OK' by simply putting a weight on LMB and pointing toward enemy (nb, TRs: I am aware that playing a TR well is vastly more effective).
Being an expert shouldn't be a requirement, it should be an advantage. As it is, if you know what you're doing and have decent gear and ideally have a pet GF backing you up, you can do ok in PvP, but without those things, you can get facerolled incredibly easily. And (and I cannot stress this enough) DCs are the only class to which this applies.
Yes, I am totally with you that "you need skillz to play this class", but that should never, ever, be something that applies to one class only. You need to either make all classes "acceptable" at a mediocre skill level, but good at a better skill level, or make all classes "mediocre" at a mediocre skill level and good at a better skill level. The idea that some classes are faceroll classes and some classes are 1337skillz classes is absolutely the a priori definition of game imbalance, and you, particularly, being great at playing the latter does not justify the former.
So basically, long story short (TL DR LOLZ): DCs are still gimped, but as a good DC, you don't get to tell people to L2P without coming across as a massive ******. Instead you should be linking people to your build and giving general DC advice.
...Like I try to (and I'm not even that good). Helpful and non-elitist trumps any kind of "L2P NUB", every time.
WTF are u talkin about the DC best heals are HoTs if u cant finish someone of with a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Heal over time ur worthless.
+1
Completly agree.
No true. The moment I hit 60 with my GWF, picked up a decent T1 weapon from the guild bank, I pwnd in PvP, got the highest score everytime. Not the same story if you're a Cleric.
stay out of range for ranged classes and in range to heal your team and if you are being attacked by someone at range, put one of your teammate between you and the attacker, which should not be so hard since you should always be with your team and not alone.. i've seen my targets use this tactic, making it hard for me to finish them off, because I hit their teammates instead, it really works
also, nodes give you more points than kills, if your team wins you get rewarded
why this desire to kill everything?
you are a support class, support.
and always remember, a moving target is harder to kill
I don't get why people stand in one place when you daze them, just because you can't use your abilities does not mean you can't move