test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Class Forums›
Guardian Tank - Self Healing Build
demonsunder
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
--This is an updated build of my old build, some of this info has been copied from my old thread-- Note: this build has been severely changed from last build due to feedback and testing
The point is this build is 3 fold;
1) Proved superior mitigation 2) Proved enough threat gain to hold aggro on high geared player's 3) To provide rapid AP generation that can be used for HP gain or a large damage buff.
The defensive values from this new build vs my old full tank build are pretty much the same, I generate a little less threat about 18%-20% less but I have found with gear I was generating far more than needed, Increased dps to the point where I can avg 2nd - 3rd in a well geared group while still taking 3 times more damage than any other player, I also avg 800k self healing in a 20min instance.
Let me first of say, I love my GF but he has been relegated to my back-burner for awhile because of lack of Need/Want in group's this is about to change with the upcoming class changes/fixes for threat and talents, this is a mitigation self healing tank build, not dps and is not intended to be optimal for PVP.
I have although cleared all content in the game on my GF including Never and all t2's
Ability Score's, Note: Only points over 10 will add to your stats, 10 in neverwinter is considered normal.
(STR) Strength 1pt = 1%, Increase the Guardian's guard meter, Damage bonus and DOT (Damage over time) damage resist
(CON) Constitution, Action point gain +1% per point, Max Hit Point's +2% per point
(DEX) Dexterity, Target Resistance Ignored 1% per point, AOE Damage resist 1% per point, Deflection chance .5% per point
(INT) Intellect, Increases recharge speed of encounter's by 1% per point
(WIS) Wisdom, Control Bonus +1% per point (this increase the duration of control effect's you apply) Control Resist 1% per point (This reduces control effects on you)
(CHA) Charisma, Companion stat bonus 1% per point and Combat advantage bonus 1% per point
I chose high Constitution and high Strength as my build because I wanted a large guard meter and alot of HP, this worked out quite well because of the percentage based hp buffs we get and can get in set's.
16 (22) STR
18 (24) CON
12 (14) DEX At lvl 60 in Bracket's
10 (12) INT
10 (12) WIS
10 (12) CHA
Race
Human VS Dwarf's
Both are solid choices but it all comes down to personal choice, in the end they both work out about the same stat's/bonus wise.
Human 2+ to One stat instead of 2 stat's
3 extra heroic feat point's (this allows much more flexibility in build's) , 3% defense Read section below of how we take damage)
One thing to also mention, Human is Bigger this may not seem like much of a bonus but with 30+ of adds attacking you and your healer trying to hit you with healing word or put a Astral Shield on you it help's.
Dwarf +2 Con and +2 Strength or +2 Wisdom
Knockback resistance (this is a Huge help, and the only real way of getting knock-back resist currently in-game)
Dot resistance (this is a better racial now that cleanse is 8 seconds but hardly something to write home about most dot's in-game do hardly any damage currently)
Lets go over some basic's
Diminishing returns, the more you stack a stat the less you get past a certain point this is called a "soft cap" as you stack more and more past this soft cap you get less effectiveness from that stat. This does not mean that stacking past this point is bad just less.
A "Hard cap" is where a stat will not stack over a certain point, as of writing this I know of no hard cap's ingame.
You do NOT need damage to tank, it helps but it is not required you can tank solely though threat generation.
The Diminishing return's for a GF are as follow's: (note, the diminishing returns start before this but these are the points where the Diminishing return outweighs the gain)
Defense 4k
Deflection 2k
Recovery 3k
(see link to a theory crafting forums discussing Diminishing returns for GF http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?218211-Defense-Deflection-and-Damage-reduction-(GF)/page2
Defensive Mitigation, This is an important topic for Tank GF's understanding how we take damage, Firstly we have our block this is our class mechanic that makes the GF different from every other class currently in the game. When Shift is held you "absorb though the meter on the left side of your character, the blue bar centered on your HUD" the damage from the strike, Block guards a 180 degree arc,
#
##
Player X-###
##
#
The block is not quite centered on the player model but slightly forward (you can test this with flame spikers, who have a centered ground attack spike) The Damage taken by your Guard is first passed through your armour, this makes defense very important for Guardians BUT you CANNOT parry with block up (from testing I cannot find 1 Instance of a parry while I was blocking)
So to recap, Damage Taken --> Defense --> Block absorb --> If block is broken, Parry roll --> Player Damage absorbed by HP pool
Outside of Block we have Defense and Parry, When we take damage without block up the damage is first mitigated through our Defense and then Parry assuming the damage is taken from the front, if you are hit from behind parry has no effect and only defense will mitigate damage.
So to recap Damage Taken --> Defense --> Parry --> Player Damage absorbed by HP pool
Our 3rd Defense stat is HP, think of this as your final line of defense one this hits 0 its game over, well until you are rezzed or use a scroll, Hp deserves a mention because you can replace this with consumable's (Pot's) or through Lifesteal (when you hit a target you gain hp based upon the damage you deal) or Regeneration (HP over time) both are stats you can look at once you start hitting the soft cap's (Defense 4k, Deflection 2k, Recovery 3k), this brings in some intresting co-efficiencies at higher level there comes a point when stacking more defense isn't as beneficial as adding Lifesteal or Regen.
Example: Fred the Tank has 50% damage Mitigation, he's looking to further increase his mitigation but adding more Defense at this point would require more than the previous amounts of defense that Fred added. 250 Defense would only give him 1% Damage Mitigation but if he instead decides to add 150 Lifesteal he gains 1% Hp on hit.
(100) damage taken, Minus fred's damage mitigation 50% (50) = 50 damage taken
(100) damage taken, Minus fred's damage mitigation 51% (49) = 49 damage taken
(100) damage taken, Minus fred's damage mitigation 50% (50) + 1% hp on hit, Fred deals 100
damage = 1hp returned = (49) damage taken
So for 100 less stats fred is getting the same amount of survivability.
This is not the best example because Hp on hit is also dependent on damage you deal,
Lifesteal also trigger's off at-will's, encounter's and daily's.
Equipment
Offence Slots: Recovery/Crit (60/40 Mix)
Defense Slots: HP/Deflection (50/50 Mix)
Utility Slot's: Movement
Weapon Enchant: Greater Lifedrinker (this is an amazing enchant for a tank, it causes alot of threat way out of proportion to its damage/healing) (working on my perfect, will update when obtained)
OR Weapon Enchant: Greater Plague Fire, this is also a really really good enchant as it reduces the mob's Defense for your whole party, Although its not so good if you run with CW's that are mitigation build because they can take off 100% of their target's defense's with aoe's spell's and keep them debuffed, making your enchant worthless (cannot take below 100% anymore)
OR Weapon Enchant: Greater Lightning, This is a great enchant for aoe's packs But it has limited use on single targets though. The weapon proc won't proc on the first target hit and the chain has a very long range and can pull other pack's (ive seen it chain 80ft" Tab taunt range), It although has the advantage of allowing you to build threat on groups above your aoe taunt's max cap (all GF aoe's have a max number of target's) and on a marked target the threat gain is quite high.
Armour Enchant: Greater Negation (This is the enchant for tank's, other's say soul forged I disagree because I only hit 25% hp when the rest of my party is dead, Greater negation gives you a 15% chance when you are hit to increase your damage resist by 20% for 6 seconds every 60 sec and this Damage resist buff is also not affected by the Damage resist soft cap. (working on my perfect, will update when obtained)
OR Armour Enchant Soulforged, this can be a lifesaver I don't find it worthwhile because I rarely go below 25% and if you go from 25.1% to 0% it wont proc.
Pet: Acolyte of Kelemvor, (Why? because 10% Damage resist and when you stack her with Lifesteal she is amazing, 283 lifesteal on her = 2k on you.) the Ioun stone cannot give you these stats and the 10% buff stacks with other Dam resist buffs and is not counted in the Damage resist Soft cap.
Set: Stalwart's, there's quite a heated discussion about the effectiveness of armour set's in endgame, I have every T1 and T2 set all 4/4 (banked) and I love stalwart's, it provides me with the most amount of Mitigation with increased threat gain from the power proc, its a great set.
The point is this build is 3 fold;
1) Proved superior mitigation 2) Proved enough threat gain to hold aggro on high geared player's 3) To provide rapid AP generation that can be used for HP gain or a large damage buff.
The defensive values from this new build vs my old full tank build are pretty much the same, I generate a little less threat about 18%-20% less but I have found with gear I was generating far more than needed, Increased dps to the point where I can avg 2nd - 3rd in a well geared group while still taking 3 times more damage than any other player, I also avg 800k self healing in a 20min instance.
Let me first of say, I love my GF but he has been relegated to my back-burner for awhile because of lack of Need/Want in group's this is about to change with the upcoming class changes/fixes for threat and talents, this is a mitigation self healing tank build, not dps and is not intended to be optimal for PVP.
I have although cleared all content in the game on my GF including Never and all t2's
Ability Score's, Note: Only points over 10 will add to your stats, 10 in neverwinter is considered normal.
(STR) Strength 1pt = 1%, Increase the Guardian's guard meter, Damage bonus and DOT (Damage over time) damage resist
(CON) Constitution, Action point gain +1% per point, Max Hit Point's +2% per point
(DEX) Dexterity, Target Resistance Ignored 1% per point, AOE Damage resist 1% per point, Deflection chance .5% per point
(INT) Intellect, Increases recharge speed of encounter's by 1% per point
(WIS) Wisdom, Control Bonus +1% per point (this increase the duration of control effect's you apply) Control Resist 1% per point (This reduces control effects on you)
(CHA) Charisma, Companion stat bonus 1% per point and Combat advantage bonus 1% per point
I chose high Constitution and high Strength as my build because I wanted a large guard meter and alot of HP, this worked out quite well because of the percentage based hp buffs we get and can get in set's.
16 (22) STR
18 (24) CON
12 (14) DEX At lvl 60 in Bracket's
10 (12) INT
10 (12) WIS
10 (12) CHA
Race
Human VS Dwarf's
Both are solid choices but it all comes down to personal choice, in the end they both work out about the same stat's/bonus wise.
Human 2+ to One stat instead of 2 stat's
3 extra heroic feat point's (this allows much more flexibility in build's) , 3% defense Read section below of how we take damage)
One thing to also mention, Human is Bigger this may not seem like much of a bonus but with 30+ of adds attacking you and your healer trying to hit you with healing word or put a Astral Shield on you it help's.
Dwarf +2 Con and +2 Strength or +2 Wisdom
Knockback resistance (this is a Huge help, and the only real way of getting knock-back resist currently in-game)
Dot resistance (this is a better racial now that cleanse is 8 seconds but hardly something to write home about most dot's in-game do hardly any damage currently)
Lets go over some basic's
Diminishing returns, the more you stack a stat the less you get past a certain point this is called a "soft cap" as you stack more and more past this soft cap you get less effectiveness from that stat. This does not mean that stacking past this point is bad just less.
A "Hard cap" is where a stat will not stack over a certain point, as of writing this I know of no hard cap's ingame.
You do NOT need damage to tank, it helps but it is not required you can tank solely though threat generation.
The Diminishing return's for a GF are as follow's: (note, the diminishing returns start before this but these are the points where the Diminishing return outweighs the gain)
Defense 4k
Deflection 2k
Recovery 3k
(see link to a theory crafting forums discussing Diminishing returns for GF http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?218211-Defense-Deflection-and-Damage-reduction-(GF)/page2
Defensive Mitigation, This is an important topic for Tank GF's understanding how we take damage, Firstly we have our block this is our class mechanic that makes the GF different from every other class currently in the game. When Shift is held you "absorb though the meter on the left side of your character, the blue bar centered on your HUD" the damage from the strike, Block guards a 180 degree arc,
#
##
Player X-###
##
#
The block is not quite centered on the player model but slightly forward (you can test this with flame spikers, who have a centered ground attack spike) The Damage taken by your Guard is first passed through your armour, this makes defense very important for Guardians BUT you CANNOT parry with block up (from testing I cannot find 1 Instance of a parry while I was blocking)
So to recap, Damage Taken --> Defense --> Block absorb --> If block is broken, Parry roll --> Player Damage absorbed by HP pool
Outside of Block we have Defense and Parry, When we take damage without block up the damage is first mitigated through our Defense and then Parry assuming the damage is taken from the front, if you are hit from behind parry has no effect and only defense will mitigate damage.
So to recap Damage Taken --> Defense --> Parry --> Player Damage absorbed by HP pool
Our 3rd Defense stat is HP, think of this as your final line of defense one this hits 0 its game over, well until you are rezzed or use a scroll, Hp deserves a mention because you can replace this with consumable's (Pot's) or through Lifesteal (when you hit a target you gain hp based upon the damage you deal) or Regeneration (HP over time) both are stats you can look at once you start hitting the soft cap's (Defense 4k, Deflection 2k, Recovery 3k), this brings in some intresting co-efficiencies at higher level there comes a point when stacking more defense isn't as beneficial as adding Lifesteal or Regen.
Example: Fred the Tank has 50% damage Mitigation, he's looking to further increase his mitigation but adding more Defense at this point would require more than the previous amounts of defense that Fred added. 250 Defense would only give him 1% Damage Mitigation but if he instead decides to add 150 Lifesteal he gains 1% Hp on hit.
(100) damage taken, Minus fred's damage mitigation 50% (50) = 50 damage taken
(100) damage taken, Minus fred's damage mitigation 51% (49) = 49 damage taken
(100) damage taken, Minus fred's damage mitigation 50% (50) + 1% hp on hit, Fred deals 100
damage = 1hp returned = (49) damage taken
So for 100 less stats fred is getting the same amount of survivability.
This is not the best example because Hp on hit is also dependent on damage you deal,
Lifesteal also trigger's off at-will's, encounter's and daily's.
Equipment
Offence Slots: Recovery/Crit (60/40 Mix)
Defense Slots: HP/Deflection (50/50 Mix)
Utility Slot's: Movement
Weapon Enchant: Greater Lifedrinker (this is an amazing enchant for a tank, it causes alot of threat way out of proportion to its damage/healing) (working on my perfect, will update when obtained)
OR Weapon Enchant: Greater Plague Fire, this is also a really really good enchant as it reduces the mob's Defense for your whole party, Although its not so good if you run with CW's that are mitigation build because they can take off 100% of their target's defense's with aoe's spell's and keep them debuffed, making your enchant worthless (cannot take below 100% anymore)
OR Weapon Enchant: Greater Lightning, This is a great enchant for aoe's packs But it has limited use on single targets though. The weapon proc won't proc on the first target hit and the chain has a very long range and can pull other pack's (ive seen it chain 80ft" Tab taunt range), It although has the advantage of allowing you to build threat on groups above your aoe taunt's max cap (all GF aoe's have a max number of target's) and on a marked target the threat gain is quite high.
Armour Enchant: Greater Negation (This is the enchant for tank's, other's say soul forged I disagree because I only hit 25% hp when the rest of my party is dead, Greater negation gives you a 15% chance when you are hit to increase your damage resist by 20% for 6 seconds every 60 sec and this Damage resist buff is also not affected by the Damage resist soft cap. (working on my perfect, will update when obtained)
OR Armour Enchant Soulforged, this can be a lifesaver I don't find it worthwhile because I rarely go below 25% and if you go from 25.1% to 0% it wont proc.
Pet: Acolyte of Kelemvor, (Why? because 10% Damage resist and when you stack her with Lifesteal she is amazing, 283 lifesteal on her = 2k on you.) the Ioun stone cannot give you these stats and the 10% buff stacks with other Dam resist buffs and is not counted in the Damage resist Soft cap.
Set: Stalwart's, there's quite a heated discussion about the effectiveness of armour set's in endgame, I have every T1 and T2 set all 4/4 (banked) and I love stalwart's, it provides me with the most amount of Mitigation with increased threat gain from the power proc, its a great set.
Post edited by demonsunder on
0
Comments
The Point of this build is to provide a tank guardian fighter with secondary dps and a self healing ability, since running this new build I have had Guild cleric's msg me asking me to stop self healing because they are bored.
Heroic Feats
5/5 Action Surge
1/3 Strength Focus (if non-human 0/3)
3/3 Toughness
3/3 Potent Challange
3/3 Armour Specialization
5/5 Powerful attack
3/3 Weapon mastery (if non-human 1/3)
Paragon Path
Tactician
5/5 Fight on
5/5 Crushing Pin
5/5 Daunting Challange
5/5 Battle Trample
1/1 Martial Mastery
Protector
5/5 Plate Agility
5/5 Shield Defense
Rapid Daily generation is the name of the game, with this build damage mitigation = bonus ap generation which combined with Fighter recovery = Healing, I am currently running Greater Lighting on my weapon combined with this and the bonus damage from battle trample on a controlled target, I can heal myself for 9 - 11k on average (spikes as high as 30k on mass add fights) every 3 seconds
Encounter's
Enforced threat
Frontline surge (on pack's) Griffins wrath otherwise or if you get complaints from rogues)
Knight's Valor
At Will's
Cleave
Threatening Rush
Daily's
(this is what makes this build so good, not only are you using our best 2 daily's but you get to use them very very often, the daily generation is so fast that I can have 3 stacks of Villain's up and you have the flexibility to do a large chunk of damage or full healing, so your threat gain is through the roof.)
Villain's Menace
Fighter's recovery
Class Feature's
Trample the fallen
Combat Superiority (or enhanced mark, if you find threat generation is too low)
More to come
From, Crowdpleasing
I tested out a few things out today and found that Threatening Rush only applies the Crushing Pin debuff on your target. It's still good but not as awesome as first thought with it being an AOE effect like Mark. Also Mark and Enforced Threat do not cause the Crushing Pin debuff icon either. Strangely enough Lunging Strike does and I've been using it more especially when tanking the boss as it's our best DPS skill on a low cooldown which compliments the Knight's Captain set.
Tested Crushing Surge and the DPS is significantly better than Cleave on a single target. Even though the animation looks clunky and slow its about the same speed as Cleave as I tested this with the Crushing Pin debuff which lasts 3 secs. I was able to Threatening Rush and then complete the 3 hits of Cleave or Crushing Surge just before the icon disappeared. For comparison the 3 hits for Cleave on a test dummy averaged about round 2600 where Crushing Surge was 3100. You also have to take into consideration that the last hit on Cleave gives bonus damage where Crushing Surge gives health and increased threat from it. That means if you're weaving At-Will attacks between encounters Crushing Surge has a lot more damage per hit. I can't get the exact numbers at the moment since the server is down but on the Power sheet it was roughly 200 damage more. I've started using this skill now when tanking bosses and it's working out well.
By @Stebss
Short Code: NW-DM900IFHK
Also you should know Tide of Iron is slated as between 10-20% increase in damage for everyone hitting the target.
I have the question of how long does it take you to recharge your dailies after use? You say this is what makes this build so great and that you can spam them so it needs to be better than what is currently possible from a Conq or Prot spec tank.
See I barely use rush in a Boss fights I tend to tab mark the distant mobs and use enforced threat every time it is up. It has the same effect I've found but it is nice to see that there are a few different play styles to accomplish the same thing here.
Do you run with a set group, guild group or pug?
I have been playing a conqueror build for the past month and doing top damage in groups as well as being able to tank all content adequately.
Do you have specific reasons why this build is superior to the point of sacrificing significant damage?
Said differently, what specific problem is this build solving?
Am I dreaming or does Threatening Rush apply Crushing Pin? If this is the case, then it is triggered by a so-called 'control ability', does that mean that it also applies Trample the Fallen?
Basically, what I'm asking is that if I use Threatening Rush combined with Cleave/Jab will this then give me the added bonus damage and threat without even having to cast Frontline Surge?
I'm waiting for feat info and power info.
some people just want to have slower runs
i dont understand the logic behind it but they exist, and i cant figure out why lol
In new PUGs you are running a little slower but again it goes much smoother since you can again cover some of their mistakes and make up their lower gear score. Where this build does suffer is the middle ground.
The build is a bit more gear dependant that the DPS build to start off with.
It does and I use it as my opener so that my Frontline Surge gets the bonus damage and also threat from Battle Trample.
Thank you very much. This has cleared things up.
Besides the knights valor, everything he is using is also on a DPS GF. How does this spec in a party make up for the damage you're losing?
He's also using stalwart... where is the gear dependency?
Tested Crushing Surge and the DPS is significantly better than Cleave on a single target. Even though the animation looks clunky and slow its about the same speed as Cleave as I tested this with the Crushing Pin debuff which lasts 3 secs. I was able to Threatening Rush and then complete the 3 hits of Cleave or Crushing Surge just before the icon disappeared. For comparison the 3 hits for Cleave on a test dummy averaged about round 2600 where Crushing Surge was 3100. You also have to take into consideration that the last hit on Cleave gives bonus damage where Crushing Surge gives health and increased threat from it. That means if you're weaving At-Will attacks between encounters Crushing Surge has a lot more damage per hit. I can't get the exact numbers at the moment since the server is down but on the Power sheet it was roughly 200 damage more. I've started using this skill now when tanking bosses and it's working out well.
The only problems I have with crushing surge is that it's single target and leaves you exposed for what feels like a very long time to get the best out of it. If I need to abandon single target management because the CW or GWF is overwhelmed with adds, crushing surge doesn't have the flexibility of cleave and isn't as easy to interrupt to block or move out of red zones. For a well oiled team with well fixed roles, I imagine it is excellent.
this is great information, I will add it to the guide Thanks!
I have leveled my GF to 60 a month ago or so. There are two things, I'd like to point out, however.
#1: I missed a section dedicated to how to use skills. Took me a little epic dungeoning time to realize the beauty of this build.
I have to be honest and admit I rarely use Villain's Menace on my GF. It's there, but I don't use it that often.
I practically use my shield only on "red moments" or to block an incoming Crowd Control from some mob, meaning Villain's Menace isn't that useful for my play-style since i don't break my Guard very often. Under certain situations like Karrundax or CN's red wizards room, it's godly indeed.
I do keep, however, Fighter's Recovery up 24/7. By generating so much AP from tanking "chest open" as well as hitting mobs, if i have like 5 mobs in front of me, it's enough to get my Enforced Threat + Frontline Surge to generate around 75% AP right away.
On parties, whenever we have a heavier fight, I roll my skills in this order:
Threatening Rush
Enforced Threat
Fighter's Recovery
Frontline Surge (whenever my HP goes near to 50% so until it's cast, i'm down to around 30% and bring myself to practically full health again)
Knight's Valor (cause I have FR's healing still on, mitigating its double-edged effect, and allowing me to get early aggro before it builds up too high)
By that time Enforced Threat is already (or very close) off cooldown again and still has FR to regen HP bringing me back to full HP and making AP ready for another Daily cast, keeping FR up 24/7 as i roll my skills all over again.
In the mean time, cleave cleave cleave.
#2: Feats: I got Ubiquitous Shield maxed taking it all out of Action Surge since i don't proc it that often (playstyle thing I said above).
The reason i picked this feat is that there are, sometimes, fights that are so add-heavy that it's impossible not to get surrounded. That feat does incredible difference, keeping me from melting too fast.
The tactician build works awesome for me, thanks once more for the awesome guide!
Peace!
I dont understand how you switched action surge for ubiquitous shield... using the calc i'd need to take other feats to unlock the tiers to get to ubi shield ? human?