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Why GG didn't live up to the hype
leshil40
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 157 Bounty Hunter
Guantlgrym is flawed in many ways, but the biggest is the fact that it's on a timer like DD, skirmish and arena pvp timers. Why have guilds in the game when you have no guild things to do other than 5 man stuff? The only reason you need a guild is for the faction setting.
Also, with the way it's on a 5-6 hour timer, guilds can't schedule events on certain nights at certain times because it isn't possible. Also, we need some 10v10 or 20v20 team or guild v. guild events that can be Queued up for at anytime. GG was a sore disappointment for me and my guild. I was having a hard enough time getting them to log in. GG was that carrot, now what's the point? We can't even schedule for it. It could be going when most of us are at work.
Need more game modes. CTF? 10v10? 20v20? Foundry created maps that can be put into rotation? You get the point. The game has decent combat at its core, but it's wasted on modes and systems that either don't work properly or just aren't enough. The dungeon environments are great, but are spoiled by the incessant amount of trash and number of adds on a boss fight. Make the boss itself tough with good mechanics, not tough because 50 million trash adds are kicking the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your cleric.
Also, with the way it's on a 5-6 hour timer, guilds can't schedule events on certain nights at certain times because it isn't possible. Also, we need some 10v10 or 20v20 team or guild v. guild events that can be Queued up for at anytime. GG was a sore disappointment for me and my guild. I was having a hard enough time getting them to log in. GG was that carrot, now what's the point? We can't even schedule for it. It could be going when most of us are at work.
Need more game modes. CTF? 10v10? 20v20? Foundry created maps that can be put into rotation? You get the point. The game has decent combat at its core, but it's wasted on modes and systems that either don't work properly or just aren't enough. The dungeon environments are great, but are spoiled by the incessant amount of trash and number of adds on a boss fight. Make the boss itself tough with good mechanics, not tough because 50 million trash adds are kicking the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your cleric.
Post edited by leshil40 on
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Kind of an apples v oranges comparison you made there.
He's not making a comparison... queuing for GG is on the same timer system as the bonus system. You can't just queue whenever you want, you know, like an intelligently designed system would provide.
Exactly, why is it on the same timer system as those things???? We should be able to Q up as a guild anytime we want. System is not conducive to keeping people vested in it.
I've basically given up hope on Neverwinter and Cryptic. There are still countless bugs and exploits in this game, botters have taken over the Enchantment market, and there's still no content to play. After seeing GG's failure to keep most people interested, I've basically lost the will to farm the same few dungeons everyday during DD. I just don't care about the game anymore.
Don't worry though, their next carrot on a stick is already dangling in front of us, conveniently announced the day they released GG. Module 1 will end up as another disappointment whenever they decide to release that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. "By this summer..." OK, I guess that means end of August? LOL, this game won't make it that long.
Don't worry, even if you don't play the game, you can still come to the forum and complain about it!
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
1. Having to be in a guild. Catering to one type of player is not a good business decision.
2. The game dictates what time you can play the content. The entire idea behind huge PWs called MMOs is for people to log on and have fun when their own timeframes allow.
Both of these are unnecessary limitations which enforce in the box thinking. If a user has 90 minutes to play NW today and their GG event doesnt queue for 2 hours.....LOL - let users run what they wish with the time they have.
Or inform them under which conditions Id be willing to pay for stuff. I would hope that kind of user feedback gets taken seriously at a for profit business and all that. Alot of this stuff isnt out of the question or going over any lines. In face this MMO is the first to intruduce som emore limiting game mechanics where others have not.
So there's nothing wrong with this game? So we're not allowed to voice our opinions on this forum?
This is the third GG thread I've had to clean because of personal attacks. Please be constructive, do not insult others for liking or disliking the content. Opinions are bound to vary as this is very unique content.
No direct attacks (trolling) please! If comments veer again into personal attacks this thread will be closed.
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Disagree with #1. There is nothing wrong with a guild based quest. If this was available in DDO it would be totally popular and you know it!
I very much agree with #2.
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A significant percentage of the player base is not guilded. Any limitation for content access outside the norm (character level for instance) is a bad business decision.
Also, what happens if a player leaves a guild, or changes guilds and is now of a different faction?
your opinion on 1 is odd, in that I feel it's completely irrelevant, this is not DDO. Mods are continually asking we keep the discussion to this game alone for the most part, what has a rival game got to do with this?
Also attacking other people is not trolling, it's just ad hominem griefing and flaming. There is a specific KIND of argumentative trolling, but for the most part I don't see it on this forum. I see "true believers" which are in many cases the worst representatives of any fanbase.
Personally I agree with Chai as always, he's making perfect sense. Any game which forgoes rational CHOICE and forces you into a guild for example or gates that content without offering up ALTERNATIVES for players that maybe don't go in for the whole large group content is in fact backwards in it's design ethos.
I disagree with you disagreeing with #1. This serves no point in being a "guild based quest" considering you can just queue up and end up being grouped with people from another guild anyway. How it that a "guild based quest"? To save you some time: It's not. What it is however is terrible design.
You do not know the facts Chai, nor do you realize guilded gamers as a whole tend to play longer and pay for more. (You should know this with your time in DDO.) There is plenty of business sense in it to me. And as any other quest in the game is purely 100% optional.
Strong guilds equal a strong game... especially a game based on Dungeons & Dragons.
PS: I will say I would totally support another quest similar to GG, or even another version of GG itself thats open to non-guilded teams... but I believe GG guild only aspect should remain intact.
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1). non-balanced map; one instance can have 50 players on one side and 20 on the other
2). the 20v20 can't be done as Guild VS Guild (which would be cool)
3). the system was not at all solid: huge lag, lots of D/Cs
On the day of the release my guild had 20 ppl armed and ready to kick some *** in PvP + a larger alliance to cover the"open PVE" part. However, the insane lag + poorly working system + etc. made it all fairly pointless. And if you ever got D/Ced, you would get put in a different instance; so instead of our alliance of efficient parties, we soon had random PUGs doing tons of useless stuff and running around like mad chicken only generating more lag.
Since Gauntlgrym is supposed to be "Epic", "ultimate challenge", etc., it would be much more interesting to have the option of queueing as a large 20-man group for PvP and "reserving" an instance of the map for organized guilds/alliances.
I don't mind the timer, it should be restricted somewhat (to give a greater sense of accomplishment). And it's great that it isn't reliant on RNG.
However, getting 5 tokens for the T2 dungeon is a bit ridiculous. Given the timer, few people could do more than 2 runs a day, many only 1. Since gear costs 45-50 tokens, you'd need 5-10 days to get 1 item, assuming you win every time; an entire month (almost) to get a full set. Which is a LOT more than you need to spend to get the best T2. I'd suggest giving out the same number of tokens as with Dungeon Delves: 10+
I'd be inclined to agree with you, if the guild systems in the game were FAR FAR FAR more robust. As it is, they are not.
So gating content behind a guild system that is not invested in and polished seems... short sighted.
Of course its guild based content.. it requires guild affiliation. Also if you happen to have a guild large enough you can field it will all guildies. If not, you can have the community join you.
As far as the design, I believe its innovating, but does still needs work. That's currently why its offline now. Further feedback will be requested, I believe, and hopefully they get the code tighter.
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I agree with you here, kinda. Guild features are great tho, its the queue system and grouping features which need help. Naturally I'd welcome more guild features as well. Which features exactly are you talking about that you'd like to see?
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
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Well then I'm sure it's open to suggestion if it's not already on the agenda. They are still quite a bit behind their competitors in this regard though if we're being "realists" here and thinking of it in a business perspective.
And as for guilds, it's all about the screens n systems braheem. Expand on guilds ability to offer up fun things for folks to do and help them coordinate together and it'll work itself out practically. As it is there seems to be this idea that it takes world events of combat and uber l33t pvpzorz to satisfy a guild but offering up ways for a guild to be multi faceted and offer up a structure which benefits and helps others. not into endgame dungeons? no reason why there can't be a system which allows you to barter internally with those in your guild that are actively doing them, sure you don't NEED an "internal guild trade system" but it certainly is a lot better than having to wait til you're both online and the edge off of the time zone differences there may be.
As for guild quests? no reason why these should be time gated, carefully dispensed fun, perhaps renewable buffs awarded to your guild for completion of them, I'd be well up for seeing buffs in specific dungeons of that area for your guildies, meaning again it's working into a set of systems which means if you're not a "hardcore leetzor dungeon delver" then you still contribute towards those guys progress and make a bit of gold/exp/materials in the process, you're not just casual andre, you're awesome questing andre that puts in the effort to travel around the different areas making sure that his guildies have the best advantage running high tier content , I've often noted a big divide between raiders, and casuals in other games. raiding being just a euphemism for "hardcore endgame" I think this would be easily solved with stuff like this.
Solo players? weird as it may seem apparently folks don't like being constantly in groups and whilst those quests might prove satisfying to them, perhaps a lil more focus on "challenging" solo content could be made which would again provide some nice incentives for players that prefer the back to the wall challenge of being solo vs a lot of enemies. Specifically tuned content would be a great boon to this with guild based rewards/buffs, making players that are a lil less social than the average mmo player that bit more valuable and worth helping out whilst respectfully leaving be.
PVP? Well GG is a pvp area, so it's PVP content, you can't mix the two and not have it considered one, and In my personal opinion the minute you throw in pvp it doesn't become a PVP/PVE hybrid it simply just becomes PVP. It's a battleground with some npc's.
This is ok, after my initial groans and moans I just learned to deal with it and didn't see the point begrudging PVP folks this content. That being said gating it behind both time and guild membership was silly, as it's not exactly innovative as heck or tied into much, it's about the only real incentive to be in a guild aside from the company.
Why would you rather be miserable and complain then be happy with what you have?
The choice is entirely yours; you can change the way you think and embrace the positive things in life instead of dwelling on the negative. It is a choice to be judgmental, just like it is a choice to be grateful.
Instead of complaining that the rose bush is full of thorns, just be happy the thorn bush has roses.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
I do know that facts, and the facts are limiting customer experience is not good marketing. Instead of giving us a wide open selection of ways to enjoy the content they gave us a severely limited way that MUST be adhered to in order to enjoy the content. Anyone who likes to solo, doesnt like guilding, doesnt know enough people in game to guild with, cant contribute enough to a guild due to limited playing time etc....cant play GG - for the SOLE REASON that they are not in a guild.
So here we have this game that many people were able to get to max level in a week or two, and they waited and waited for the next content to drop, only for some of them to find out they cant play it unless they force themselves into guild mode which some do not find desirable. People will pay more money into a game that entertains them, which does not coincide with forcing players to play a specific way where they absolutely must use specific guild mechanics to do so.
No restrictions = 100% potential interest.
Restrictions = < 100% potential interest.
Interest = potential sales.
Marketing 101.
What you don't do is flat out bar content from people without a guild, especially when there is nothing in the content which actively needs guild membership (apart from the artificial faction alignment here, which could just as easily, in fact more conveniently, be done at a personal level).
Now I know joining a guild is easy and making your own guild only slightly more difficult, but that's not the point.
So no game should ever add guild content for players who are in a guild, when guilded players statistically play and spend more on games they play?
Your argument here seems to be that every single piece of content should be targeted at casuals, not the hardcore players who play and pay more then the casuals.
You do realize that the hardcore people will leave if there is no hardcore content, right? Hardcore players are the real fans, casuals are the fair weather gamers who migrate from game to game whenever the next big thing is released. If you do not add hardcore content to your game, then only casuals will play it, thereby dooming your product's lifespan to a single release cycle, as casuals will flock to a game when it is new, then drop it like it is nothing when the next new game comes out.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
This is nonsense. Sorry.
But I'll elaborate so as to show I don't mean this as mere ad hominem.
You're arguing the glass is half empty/full, which is not really the point, there are facts here and undeniable logical factors. Your PERCEPTION of the game which is based on your SUBJECTIVE opinion, means that his opinion is valid at least to him to a degree, hower the POINTS he makes are not subjective opinion.
GG is gated behind guild membership, not everyone wants to partake in a guild, they get excluded from GG because of this. That is not glass half empty/full material. That's just cold hard fact. And he has a point. If it exists but I'm (for example) excluded from it, then that doesn't mean I should sit up and exclaim "oh thank you, content that strong arms me into a guild I'm glad this exists"
Your attitude is the enemy of good feedback.
This is patently false.
Your Point 1: Anyone who only likes to solo ... cant play GG - for the SOLE REASON that they are not in a guild. No. If they only like to solo, they wouldnt join GG even if it were not open to non allied guilds. Why? Because they like to play by themselves which is perfectly fine. Read the storyline of the quest.. they are asking for more than one person to help them!
Your Point 2: Anyone who doesnt like guilding... cant play GG - for the SOLE REASON that they are not in a guild. True. Its designed as guild only content. This is a good reason to consider playing in a guild. If you want to play in Yankee Stadium, you need to join the NY Yankees, unless you get invited as part of another organization. Very similar concept at play here. Luckily unlike being a member of the NY Yankees, its far easier to join or make your own guild. You can even make a guild that specializes solely in GG.
Your Point 3 & 4:doesnt know enough people in game to guild with, cant contribute enough to a guild due to limited playing time etc -- No better way to get to know people in game than to join a guild of like-minded players. As for those who have limited times to play... again no better way to enjoy the game WHEN YOU DO HAVE THE TIME, than to join a guild of like-minded players. I would never want to waste my time in PUGville if I knew my time was limited. And my time is very, very limited.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
thumbs up x over 9000