3 day lockout means this game would only get traffic every 3 days. Sure, it might slow down the farming, but what are people supposed to do for 3 days instead? What if that 3rd day is a work day for people that support the game financially?
And have you been blind to all the posts about bosses being "too hard" already? To appeal to everyone (which, in my opinion, is a bad idea), the company needs to try and please the lowest common denominator first. If casual players can't beat end game, what will make them come back to play the next day? Loss of customers means loss of money, you know.
This is the first good counter point to my suggested changes, and the only logical argument against increasing the challenge.
I am not suggesting that all dungeons become more difficult, just the endgame "hardest" dungeons. If the masses prove to want easy content handed to them to the point where everyone is walking around in the same gear then that is what Cryptic should give them, they didn't make this game for charity, and they need to have people playing to bring in the money.
However, I believe that having certain content be challenging makes it all the more rewarding. Not everyone has to be best in slot to enjoy the game, but being best in slot should mean something.
As to your point about the 3 day lockout, there is plenty of stuff to do when not plowing the most endgame raids. Maybe 3 days is too much, maybe a 2 day lockout.
Also maybe implement a way to farm enchantments in a more feasible manner, right now rank 10 is so unobtainable that there is no reason to bother (you would need to farm 4096 rank 4 enchants for a rank 10, assuming every fuse is a success)
People like to farm professions and stuff, PvP gear, transmog gear, etc.
One of the fundamental flaws behind the design right now is that Castle Never is always the most profitable thing to do, 100% of the time. It is the best and fastest way to farm AD, therefore the best way to farm and gear as well as enchants as well as zen. Variety please.
But then where's the incentive to buy the end game armor with dollars instead of Astral Diamonds? If they make the content harder, people will spend more money on the gear they need to complete it!
We are talking about the same Business model right?
I'm being serious too. This is the exact problem people talk about when they say people were going to get to the end and quit. It's a process whereby you are separated from your money in return for being given power in the form of market currency which can be used to purchase any end game equipment you care to name.
Neverwinter is a giant, non-stop Point of Sale impulse buy.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Do you realise how many times you mention 'exploits' and 'fix' in your original post, then say you don't care about fixing bugs in the next post??
Putting timers on End game content = bad idea. You want to keep your players playing, not hanging around - just look at all the people complaining about Gauntlgrym and Dungeon Delves being on timers. Older MMORPGs had keys / quests / lockouts on instances and the (newer) player-bases complained.
Making end content more challenging = good idea. Unfortunately, Cryptic have shown that they are unable to do this other than add more trash mobs. Whether this is a constraint of the engine, I don't know. This game was initially developed as a co-op game and maybe it wasn't designed to deal with complex battle mechanics.
Finally, whilst I respect your ideas - I am fairly confident that someone within Cryptic knows a lot more about this than you do and, if they haven't chosen to implement your ideas, then there's probably a reason why.
i dont mind content being challenging, but for the love of god stop suggesting more adds or tougher adds.
that has to be the single worst thing about boss fights in this game. look here comes the waves of adds out of thin air spewing red circles on the ground everywhere. 2 minutes later, oh look here is more adds magically teleporting into the fight.
once in a while its ok, but its like the main mechanic on every boss fight. come up with something else.
Do you realise how many times you mention 'exploits' and 'fix' in your original post, then say you don't care about fixing bugs in the next post??
Putting timers on End game content = bad idea. You want to keep your players playing, not hanging around - just look at all the people complaining about Gauntlgrym and Dungeon Delves being on timers. Older MMORPGs had keys / quests / lockouts on instances and the (newer) player-bases complained.
Making end content more challenging = good idea. Unfortunately, Cryptic have shown that they are unable to do this other than add more trash mobs. Whether this is a constraint of the engine, I don't know. This game was initially developed as a co-op game and maybe it wasn't designed to deal with complex battle mechanics.
Finally, whilst I respect your ideas - I am fairly confident that someone within Cryptic knows a lot more about this than you do and, if they haven't chosen to implement your ideas, then there's probably a reason why.
Obviously I care about bug fixes, read above posts.
As for the lockouts, I don't want them on every dungeon. Just Castle Never and the PvE portion of Gauntlygrym (while increasing the reward for the latter)
I just think there are better ways to make people continue playing than "here grind this same dungeon over and over and over"
For many people, make them grind and grind and they will get bored and quit.
i dont mind content being challenging, but for the love of god stop suggesting more adds or tougher adds.
that has to be the single worst thing about boss fights in this game. look here comes the waves of adds out of thin air spewing red circles on the ground everywhere. 2 minutes later, oh look here is more adds magically teleporting into the fight.
once in a while its ok, but its like the main mechanic on every boss fight. come up with something else.
The adds / tougher adds were a specific suggestion for a quick solution to making Castle Never more challenging, definitely not a suggestion for how to approach future content. FYI the devs have heard the cries of "no more adds" and have stated module 1 will have more variety.
My suggestions regarding Castle Never were supposed to be quick easy fixes that would not involve designing a bunch of invisible walls or adding tons new code.
But then where's the incentive to buy the end game armor with dollars instead of Astral Diamonds? If they make the content harder, people will spend more money on the gear they need to complete it!
We are talking about the same Business model right?
I'm being serious too. This is the exact problem people talk about when they say people were going to get to the end and quit. It's a process whereby you are separated from your money in return for being given power in the form of market currency which can be used to purchase any end game equipment you care to name.
Neverwinter is a giant, non-stop Point of Sale impulse buy.
I feel as if swindling players into spending a quick buck on gear before realizing the game they are playing is garbage and quitting is a bad business model. Eventually your game will earn a bad reputation and new players will stop coming in. Design a game that is fun to play, retains current players and brings in new ones through word of mouth and good reviews will result in a much larger player base. The changes I suggested did not involve making equipment BoE, you would still be able to buy it with real money. The price would likely rise, as it would be more difficult to obtain, but the option would still be there.
Additionally, there are more ways to make money in the zen market than buying best in slot equipment.
Professions, enchantments, mounts, companions, name changes, respecs, appearance changes, transmog items, etc, all promote the purchase of zen. I don't think you would see that big of a dip in zen sales if the price went up on best in slot items.
In fact, I think more people would be willing to purchase zen if they knew they were playing a solid game that had a future, not to mention increased player base = increased sales.
0
kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i dont mind content being challenging, but for the love of god stop suggesting more adds or tougher adds.
that has to be the single worst thing about boss fights in this game. look here comes the waves of adds out of thin air spewing red circles on the ground everywhere. 2 minutes later, oh look here is more adds magically teleporting into the fight.
once in a while its ok, but its like the main mechanic on every boss fight. come up with something else.
I'm not even sure they can. I'm sure I read somewhere about the boss mechanics being tied to the room itself, rather than the boss. This was the reason that boss mobs couldn't be added to Foundry missions.
Unfortunately, what this also means is that they are very-much tied into what they can do on current encounters. I doubt they can do checks for previous mobs to be killed / or cause the players to have to split up around the dungeon during the fight to undertake some kind of secondary tasks.
We do know (through Foundry) that there can be checks done for specific items to be in an inventory - so maybe there's a possibility there for players to have pre-requisites ahead of a boss encounter - but the fact that players get 'locked' into the boss fights suggest to me that doing anything other than fight the boss in that room isn't feasible at the moment.
So, (and these are just examples);
having mobs spawn in separate rooms that requires some of the players to break off from the boss fight and kill them before they reach the boss and explode for lots of damage may not be possible.
having to turn cogs throughout the dungeon to move pipes so acid is re-directed from the boss room (preventin a group-wide DOT) during a fight may not be possible
having red circles that teleport the player to another room causing them to have to run back to the boss fight may not be possible
I'm not even sure they can. I'm sure I read somewhere about the boss mechanics being tied to the room itself, rather than the boss. This was the reason that boss mobs couldn't be added to Foundry missions.
Unfortunately, what this also means is that they are very-much tied into what they can do on current encounters. I doubt they can do checks for previous mobs to be killed / or cause the players to have to split up around the dungeon during the fight to undertake some kind of secondary tasks.
We do know (through Foundry) that there can be checks done for specific items to be in an inventory - so maybe there's a possibility there for players to have pre-requisites ahead of a boss encounter - but the fact that players get 'locked' into the boss fights suggest to me that doing anything other than fight the boss in that room isn't feasible at the moment.
So, (and these are just examples);
having mobs spawn in separate rooms that requires some of the players to break off from the boss fight and kill them before they reach the boss and explode for lots of damage may not be possible.
having to turn cogs throughout the dungeon to move pipes so acid is re-directed from the boss room (preventin a group-wide DOT) during a fight may not be possible
Having mechanics tied to the room is fine honestly. For example on Dracolich, if it is the "room" doing the check of Dracolich health % and then determining whether or not to spawn hands, or the boss doesn't really matter. Or spider boss, is it the "room" checking boss health to determine whether she morphs into spider phase?
Doesn't really matter as long as the mechanic exists to do a health check, therefore you can have different mechanics in different phases.
3 day lockout means this game would only get traffic every 3 days. Sure, it might slow down the farming, but what are people supposed to do for 3 days instead? What if that 3rd day is a work day for people that support the game financially?
And have you been blind to all the posts about bosses being "too hard" already? To appeal to everyone (which, in my opinion, is a bad idea), the company needs to try and please the lowest common denominator first. If casual players can't beat end game, what will make them come back to play the next day? Loss of customers means loss of money, you know.
I have been playing since day one of OB.
I have a 52 GWF, 21GF, 52 TR, 42 DC.
I login every single day, I do some work on my foundry projects, and I review other Authors' projects. I can't recall the last time I played an official Dev released quest, the Foundry offers so much more (except the pay off).
I have had guild-mates badgering me to level to cap because they are "bored stiff" and want to run end-game content.
My answer to them, "d'uh, if you hadn't rushed to end-game you wouldn't be bored now would you"?
This isn't rocket science.
All MMO Developers face a challenge with trying to please people who rush to end-game then whine for weeks on end that they are bored.
IMO Devs should ignore such people they brought it on themselves, and 48 hours after the release of new content they'll have rushed through it all and be whining they are bored again - some of them really are that stupid.
I'd suggest that a mechanic be introduced that when new content and a new cap is released that there me a limit on how fast someone can progress to that new cap. I'd suggest a minimum of two weeks. So limit XP gains per 24 hours to 7% of the new "XP gap". That builds in two week's grace for Devs not have to listen to the "I'm bored" whines.
Now if someone pursues the official "quest chains" and stops gaining XP because they reached their daily cap and then runs out of "quest content" then they'll need to grind mobs, repeat dungeons, or hit the foundry to be able to make it to the new cap.
This incentivises players to engage with more than just once aspect of the game; which from the Devs' point of view is a very good thing.
Will some players whine if such a mechanic were intoriduced? Of course they would, but players whine no matter what the Devs do, so the Devs just have t bite the bullet and do what's best in the long-term interests of the the game.
And the long-term interest of the game are not served by rushing out buggy new content to appease the "I'm bored" fools who blast through al new content in 48 hours or less.
But having a "progression brake" on levelling so that it is possible to build in more QA and Testing time in to the release cycle so that the game is only ever improved (bug wise) by the addition of new content is very much in the long-term interests of the game.
I login every single day, I do some work on my foundry projects, and I review other Authors' projects. I can't recall the last time I played an official Dev released quest, the Foundry offers so much more (except the pay off).
I have had guild-mates badgering me to level to cap because they are "bored stiff" and want to run end-game content.
My answer to them, "d'uh, if you hadn't rushed to end-game you wouldn't be bored now would you"?
This isn't rocket science.
All MMO Developers face a challenge with trying to please people who rush to end-game then whine for weeks on end that they are bored.
IMO Devs should ignore such people they brought it on themselves, and 48 hours after the release of new content they'll have rushed through it all and be whining they are bored again - some of them really are that stupid.
I'd suggest that a mechanic be introduced that when new content and a new cap is released that there me a limit on how fast someone can progress to that new cap. I'd suggest a minimum of two weeks. So limit XP gains per 24 hours to 7% of the new "XP gap". That builds in two week's grace for Devs not have to listen to the "I'm bored" whines.
Now if someone pursues the official "quest chains" and stops gaining XP because they reached their daily cap and then runs out of "quest content" then they'll need to grind mobs, repeat dungeons, or hit the foundry to be able to make it to the new cap.
This incentivises players to engage with more than just once aspect of the game; which from the Devs' point of view is a very good thing.
Will some players whine if such a mechanic were intoriduced? Of course they would, but players whine no matter what the Devs do, so the Devs just have t bite the bullet and do what's best in the long-term interests of the the game.
And the long-term interest of the game are not served by rushing out buggy new content to appease the "I'm bored" fools who blast through al new content in 48 hours or less.
But having a "progression brake" on levelling so that it is possible to build in more QA and Testing time in to the release cycle so that the game is only ever improved (bug wise) by the addition of new content is very much in the long-term interests of the game.
All The Best
Look, nobody is here to rain on your parade or tell you how you should enjoy the game. I do not enjoy the leveling process. It is a means to an end. Some people are interested in the story and lore of the game, others are not. Cryptic must do its best to appease both parties, not cater to one or the other.
Calling everyone whiners will not get you what you want, if the game was reduced to only people playing foundries I doubt Cryptic would be able to sustain their servers. You need other people to play this game, which sadly needs improvements. Pointing out areas in which improvements can be made is not "whining".
Comments
This is the first good counter point to my suggested changes, and the only logical argument against increasing the challenge.
I am not suggesting that all dungeons become more difficult, just the endgame "hardest" dungeons. If the masses prove to want easy content handed to them to the point where everyone is walking around in the same gear then that is what Cryptic should give them, they didn't make this game for charity, and they need to have people playing to bring in the money.
However, I believe that having certain content be challenging makes it all the more rewarding. Not everyone has to be best in slot to enjoy the game, but being best in slot should mean something.
As to your point about the 3 day lockout, there is plenty of stuff to do when not plowing the most endgame raids. Maybe 3 days is too much, maybe a 2 day lockout.
Also maybe implement a way to farm enchantments in a more feasible manner, right now rank 10 is so unobtainable that there is no reason to bother (you would need to farm 4096 rank 4 enchants for a rank 10, assuming every fuse is a success)
People like to farm professions and stuff, PvP gear, transmog gear, etc.
One of the fundamental flaws behind the design right now is that Castle Never is always the most profitable thing to do, 100% of the time. It is the best and fastest way to farm AD, therefore the best way to farm and gear as well as enchants as well as zen. Variety please.
We are talking about the same Business model right?
I'm being serious too. This is the exact problem people talk about when they say people were going to get to the end and quit. It's a process whereby you are separated from your money in return for being given power in the form of market currency which can be used to purchase any end game equipment you care to name.
Neverwinter is a giant, non-stop Point of Sale impulse buy.
Putting timers on End game content = bad idea. You want to keep your players playing, not hanging around - just look at all the people complaining about Gauntlgrym and Dungeon Delves being on timers. Older MMORPGs had keys / quests / lockouts on instances and the (newer) player-bases complained.
Making end content more challenging = good idea. Unfortunately, Cryptic have shown that they are unable to do this other than add more trash mobs. Whether this is a constraint of the engine, I don't know. This game was initially developed as a co-op game and maybe it wasn't designed to deal with complex battle mechanics.
Finally, whilst I respect your ideas - I am fairly confident that someone within Cryptic knows a lot more about this than you do and, if they haven't chosen to implement your ideas, then there's probably a reason why.
that has to be the single worst thing about boss fights in this game. look here comes the waves of adds out of thin air spewing red circles on the ground everywhere. 2 minutes later, oh look here is more adds magically teleporting into the fight.
once in a while its ok, but its like the main mechanic on every boss fight. come up with something else.
Obviously I care about bug fixes, read above posts.
As for the lockouts, I don't want them on every dungeon. Just Castle Never and the PvE portion of Gauntlygrym (while increasing the reward for the latter)
I just think there are better ways to make people continue playing than "here grind this same dungeon over and over and over"
For many people, make them grind and grind and they will get bored and quit.
The adds / tougher adds were a specific suggestion for a quick solution to making Castle Never more challenging, definitely not a suggestion for how to approach future content. FYI the devs have heard the cries of "no more adds" and have stated module 1 will have more variety.
My suggestions regarding Castle Never were supposed to be quick easy fixes that would not involve designing a bunch of invisible walls or adding tons new code.
I feel as if swindling players into spending a quick buck on gear before realizing the game they are playing is garbage and quitting is a bad business model. Eventually your game will earn a bad reputation and new players will stop coming in. Design a game that is fun to play, retains current players and brings in new ones through word of mouth and good reviews will result in a much larger player base. The changes I suggested did not involve making equipment BoE, you would still be able to buy it with real money. The price would likely rise, as it would be more difficult to obtain, but the option would still be there.
Additionally, there are more ways to make money in the zen market than buying best in slot equipment.
Professions, enchantments, mounts, companions, name changes, respecs, appearance changes, transmog items, etc, all promote the purchase of zen. I don't think you would see that big of a dip in zen sales if the price went up on best in slot items.
In fact, I think more people would be willing to purchase zen if they knew they were playing a solid game that had a future, not to mention increased player base = increased sales.
I'm not even sure they can. I'm sure I read somewhere about the boss mechanics being tied to the room itself, rather than the boss. This was the reason that boss mobs couldn't be added to Foundry missions.
Unfortunately, what this also means is that they are very-much tied into what they can do on current encounters. I doubt they can do checks for previous mobs to be killed / or cause the players to have to split up around the dungeon during the fight to undertake some kind of secondary tasks.
We do know (through Foundry) that there can be checks done for specific items to be in an inventory - so maybe there's a possibility there for players to have pre-requisites ahead of a boss encounter - but the fact that players get 'locked' into the boss fights suggest to me that doing anything other than fight the boss in that room isn't feasible at the moment.
So, (and these are just examples);
having mobs spawn in separate rooms that requires some of the players to break off from the boss fight and kill them before they reach the boss and explode for lots of damage may not be possible.
having to turn cogs throughout the dungeon to move pipes so acid is re-directed from the boss room (preventin a group-wide DOT) during a fight may not be possible
having red circles that teleport the player to another room causing them to have to run back to the boss fight may not be possible
Having mechanics tied to the room is fine honestly. For example on Dracolich, if it is the "room" doing the check of Dracolich health % and then determining whether or not to spawn hands, or the boss doesn't really matter. Or spider boss, is it the "room" checking boss health to determine whether she morphs into spider phase?
Doesn't really matter as long as the mechanic exists to do a health check, therefore you can have different mechanics in different phases.
I have been playing since day one of OB.
I have a 52 GWF, 21GF, 52 TR, 42 DC.
I login every single day, I do some work on my foundry projects, and I review other Authors' projects. I can't recall the last time I played an official Dev released quest, the Foundry offers so much more (except the pay off).
I have had guild-mates badgering me to level to cap because they are "bored stiff" and want to run end-game content.
My answer to them, "d'uh, if you hadn't rushed to end-game you wouldn't be bored now would you"?
This isn't rocket science.
All MMO Developers face a challenge with trying to please people who rush to end-game then whine for weeks on end that they are bored.
IMO Devs should ignore such people they brought it on themselves, and 48 hours after the release of new content they'll have rushed through it all and be whining they are bored again - some of them really are that stupid.
I'd suggest that a mechanic be introduced that when new content and a new cap is released that there me a limit on how fast someone can progress to that new cap. I'd suggest a minimum of two weeks. So limit XP gains per 24 hours to 7% of the new "XP gap". That builds in two week's grace for Devs not have to listen to the "I'm bored" whines.
Now if someone pursues the official "quest chains" and stops gaining XP because they reached their daily cap and then runs out of "quest content" then they'll need to grind mobs, repeat dungeons, or hit the foundry to be able to make it to the new cap.
This incentivises players to engage with more than just once aspect of the game; which from the Devs' point of view is a very good thing.
Will some players whine if such a mechanic were intoriduced? Of course they would, but players whine no matter what the Devs do, so the Devs just have t bite the bullet and do what's best in the long-term interests of the the game.
And the long-term interest of the game are not served by rushing out buggy new content to appease the "I'm bored" fools who blast through al new content in 48 hours or less.
But having a "progression brake" on levelling so that it is possible to build in more QA and Testing time in to the release cycle so that the game is only ever improved (bug wise) by the addition of new content is very much in the long-term interests of the game.
All The Best
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Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
Look, nobody is here to rain on your parade or tell you how you should enjoy the game. I do not enjoy the leveling process. It is a means to an end. Some people are interested in the story and lore of the game, others are not. Cryptic must do its best to appease both parties, not cater to one or the other.
Calling everyone whiners will not get you what you want, if the game was reduced to only people playing foundries I doubt Cryptic would be able to sustain their servers. You need other people to play this game, which sadly needs improvements. Pointing out areas in which improvements can be made is not "whining".