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dzogen
Member Posts: 550 Arc User
If you are a beta author:
please don't:
1) stack mobs (this is the #1 thing everyone does)
2) stick the final chest somewhere unreachable
3) Oh, and don't leave from the boxes in protector's enclave. I'm not sure why but all the worst quests have you jumping into a pile of boxes to start.
Please
1) if you have 0 reviews, you need to use the description to give people confidence to try it. Estimate how long it is, and if it can be completed solo
2) turn on waypoints
If you are a dev:
I like that the tab doesn't crash, but now there aren't enough quests to review. Not sure how I can refresh to find new quests to play. Also reviewed quests should be marked as such somehow.
please don't:
1) stack mobs (this is the #1 thing everyone does)
2) stick the final chest somewhere unreachable
3) Oh, and don't leave from the boxes in protector's enclave. I'm not sure why but all the worst quests have you jumping into a pile of boxes to start.
Please
1) if you have 0 reviews, you need to use the description to give people confidence to try it. Estimate how long it is, and if it can be completed solo
2) turn on waypoints
If you are a dev:
I like that the tab doesn't crash, but now there aren't enough quests to review. Not sure how I can refresh to find new quests to play. Also reviewed quests should be marked as such somehow.
Post edited by dzogen on
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Indeed. - Stacking mobs is probobly the most easy mistake you can do. (Depending also on how well you play/or how well geared you are towards the later levels) It doesn't take too long to notice a few things, as how hard something is.
Though I myself love challenging foundries. Mostly for the combat difficulty, though higher ratings for me comes when a is well rounded. (It has a story for example, but also decent combat. Perhaps even a hint of exploration etc. But that's just me.)
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
Just wanted to add for #1 "if you intend for people to solo". Stacking encounters for 2-3 man content and warning players that solo is tough and its meant for 2 or 3 (or more) should be acceptable. Do you agree?
Right, I am not a fan of stacking encounters for solo. I don't find burning thru potions fun & it makes it almost impossible for higher levels.
2-3 players, then yes, but again people are limiting their potential audience. Most aren't going to bother with a beta quest that's for 3 players or 60 minutes, etc.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
Agreed, it definitely limits your audience.
I'm so confused.
Foundry name: Vuelherring (with an extra 'R', matey)
"Bring out yer Dead" NW-DAI945C2G #humor #story #solo
This is because there are gamers, and then there are people who play games.
Beyond the Easy, Standard, and Hard selection, there are several factors to how difficult an encounter can actually be ...
1) Character's Class
2) Character's Level
3) Character's Companion (If Any)
4) Encounter Spacing -- How close the encounter is to others in the same room / region
On the in-game reviews that I do now, I always state those right up front ... on those reviews that I post here in the forums (since the review length in-game is so short), I usually add the number of healing potions / portable alters too.
To a limited extent, you as the module / mission creator have control over the difficulty of your adventure but you should definitely play through it with various classes at various levels -- only personal experience can tell you if (in your judgement) it is easier or harder than you designed it to be.
A short solo hack-n-slash: The Dirty Dwarf
My quest uses some easy encounters and a few standard ones. They are all spread out, you only do one fight at a time. Someone mentioned my quest on the forums awhile back as one of the "most balanced for all levels" that they'd seen. So, is it okay to trust the labels? The mobs gain new powers at higher levels, and Cryptic knows that. So is it okay to trust their labeling of their encounter groups?
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Do it, it's your quest. I didn't stack my encounters for fear of bad reviews. Then, saw a group go through my quest and just destroy it. So I stack some encounters, not many, just in some optional areas, and three main areas. Tough? Yes, but then I see people soloing it.
Never knew that GAMERS wanted cakewalks...I thought we liked things to be challenging?
RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
If an author is worried about a group wrecking their challenging solo player quest then an author can create a group or solo option that will spawn additional encounters based on the players decision.
I cringe when I see a stack of 3 or more easy melee encounters of 4-6 in a group. Easy melee encounters may have no HP but they hit like a truck, if a player is out of endurance it is an insta-kill against a player at 60, that is nearly 20 mobs hitting you at once.
A thread like this is just spreading awareness to authors that don't have the option to play test their quest at 60.
A short solo hack-n-slash: The Dirty Dwarf
It depends on the gamers' gaming style sometimes.
But going back to what i was saying, if you wanted to make a fight harder, would it maybe be better to use an encounter labeled as hard. The devs will have filled that encounter with the proper mobs (mayhaps?). The problem with stacking is that sometimes authors stack the wrong types of mobs together, most likely not even realizing it. As an example, people may stack encounters that include deathlock wights, which constantly spawn more and more mobs on them. It's an easier tidbit of advice to say "never ever stack encounters" than it is to say "be very careful of the specific types of mobs stacked closely together, as some individual mobs may cause certain unintended difficulties that could make it near or totally impossible for some classes to complete."
Also, if you're using optional difficulty routes intended for groups which are clearly defined, and solo players are griping about the difficulty, that's their issue, not yours. So see, it's complex.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Truth revealed.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
I suspect that many Authors have played through their missions using the limited Class / Level ranges available within the Foundry itself and then determined that it was 'too easy'. One way to make the encounter more difficult is to use multiple groups (i.e. stacked encounters) but, as most here are suggesting, this is a misrepresentation as the Foundry's Class / Level ranges don't span the entire breadth of possibilities.
Furthermore, I would suspect that many novice Authors also just add more encounters (stacked or otherwise) to lengthen their missions to obtain the minimum 15 minutes play through -- this may work but as the encounters become more difficult due to level scaling whom knows how much longer it could add.
Be it Cryptic's judgment or the player's -- how do you (or would you) define the difference between an easy, standard or hard encounter?
Most yes. Though difficulty sliders solve your troubles. (Perhaps with a good tooltip if needed.) For example, my quest, Riddles in the Dark - On the final optional boss battle, I've added a slider ranging from No difficulty, Normal, Hard and Extreme. (And Extreme carrying not only more mobs but they combo together and are intended for three or more players to handle.)
There are spawn triggers within the spawn triggers in that fight. (I have duod it with my Trickster Rogue, with another Trickster Rogue. But the fight is rough/really hard with only two people. Though an informative warning does follow.)
The Hard one is leagues away from Extreme, but gives a duo a decent challenge.
The normal one will give a soloplayer a decent challenge.
The thing with sliders atm is that they do need you to dubble the work or more with encounters. But that isn't much compared to what you can burn through placing details and such.
Edit: And add to this, alot of playtesting. The only way to know for certain, play your maps again and again and again, then bring a friend with you and run it. - Because after awhile you get author blindness lol, and you will miss details.
Just my two cents
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
I haven't really tinkered with too many of the encounters, but from what little experience i have...
The easy encounters have 3 or 4 mobs, which have lower hit points, and basic skills, no special powers that do higher damage or knockback, stuns, et cetera.
The standard encounters have one mob that has higher hit points, and has special powers that do higher damage or some such. Sometimes they also have a couple of lesser friends with them, that just have the basic skills.
I don't really know what's in the hard encounters, as i haven't personally used any. I'm guessing either bigger/stronger mobs with more hit points, or more than one of the stronger mob from the standard encounters, and probably more adds.
Many do, but not all. My main character is a level 60 Cleric. I kinda figure if she can do it, everyone can do it. Though, to be honest, sometimes i still get comments that my standard encounters are kinda tough.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
The Nasher Rebel Recruits have a AOE damage/Insane damage buff in one go. I learnt this the hard way. Easy isn't always Easy.
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
Ah, you're right, i use those. There will be one or two of them that read a scroll that does an aoe attack. But it doesn't seem to do much harm though, never had any trouble with them.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Play to 60 on a GWF. I have, and it's just not fun to play these types of quests.
Difficulty sliders seem to be a decent solution since mob difficulty is a subjective preference. I threw one in Agent 34 and it seems to work ok for groups and such. And there's always crazies (OP classes, etc) who say that is still not hard enough, etc.
That said, I've started and abandoned beta quests because they're too hard, but I've never left because it was too easy.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34