I don't understand why you don't have what DDO has where you open a chest and is loot for that character but say you are playing a cleric and you get a rogue item, you can give it to the rogue in the chest and it is bind on pick up or equip.
You also need to re-look at the need/greed system. I recently did Spellplague Caverns and we asked people not to pick up things mid combat as it just fills your screen. However, as the fight took ages as you just love those add ons by the time we finished a few minutes later all the loot had disappeared so from then on people were picking things up mid combat and it was a pain.
Finally, please remove who has won what from the main screen. It is pointless, it says it in the chat anyway just leave it there if people want to check what people rolled. It stays on the screen for so long if there are 4 items it takes up most of the screen!!
I'm glad to see there are people out there that understand that the N/G/P loot system is a big part of the problem
I for one do not understand why they are trying to hold on to it. As they can clearly see it is a problem and needs to be replaced by individual loot.
I'm not saying that dungeons don't need to be retuned, because they do. I'm saying that a lot of people won't (don't)even go into one with the current loot system.
Making any of the loot bop will not change that. It just will make people mad.(as been shown)
I am starting to sound like a broken record though, but there is no better way for me to say it.
"N/G/P needs to go away. We should be fighting monsters for our loot, not our party members."
BoP loot wont make people want to run Dungeons more,the only thing it does is FORCE them to run them more... Timesink forced upon you to slow down your progress,so the devs dont have to create meaningfull content as fast..
Dont force me to run the same boring and 0 challenge dungeons over and over just to get my gear if im lucky,and if i am not i get considered a 2nd class player by those who got lucky,or got their gear before all the changes/exploit fixes etc..
I dont mind working for my gear,but i will not go to work and then MAYBE get paid ^^ I doubt any of you would work for a company that at the end rolls a dice and if you guess the Number you get your paycheck,if not well better luck next month
Then you could always implement a token system for end game gear, the foundation is there with seals already, just expand it. This could even be used to make the foundry a viable way of obtaining at least a low(er) quality end game gear for those who dislike group/raiding content, then put a daily/weekly cap on how many seals can be obtained so it can't be abused.
Indeed, the foundry is really the key to this game. It needs work, and it also needs to be made rewarding. The seal system I suggested earlier would work well with this and a robust and rewarding foundry would help solve one of themepark type MMOs biggest issues: developers not being able to make content as fast as players can devour it.
That actually is a great suggestion. A token system with the ability to earn some tokens from, perhaps, highly rated foundry missions. Would be a huge boon for foundry content. And give people an viable alternative to dungeon runs for gear.
I love this idea so much.
My only objection to BoP gear was the fact that I don't want to run dungeons as the only way to earn gear. You see, I'm one of those odd people who don't like group/raiding content. And I really, really hate dungeons!
So up till now, I have spent all my time farming AD so that I can buy the gear I need from players who actually like running dungeons. This has given me a goal to strive for and has kept me happily playing.
If you make seals the new way to buy gear, then I'm perfectly happy with that. In fact, I'm more than happy with that. Because at the moment, I find I'm just running skirmishes over and over to farm AD (this gets very boring after a while).
So if seals are the new 'must have', then I will start farming seals instead of AD. I will actually be rewarded for exploring and killing monsters. I will actually be rewarded for playing Foundry missions. Wonderful! Absolutely wonderful!
At the moment, I actually discard 'Blacklake Coins' and other currency that you can exchange for seals, because I have no need for seals. But if I can buy the gear I need from seal vendors instead of the auction house, then I'm more than fine with that (even if that gear is BoP).
So all I'm really asking for is an alternative way for solo PvE players like me to earn gear. Please don't try to force me to run dungeons, I'm very stubborn and I won't be forced to do anything . All you'll do is drive me away.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited June 2013
First, thank you for actually listening to the players (or, for realizing that this change would actually hurt your bottom line in the long run). I think the only people unhappy about your decision to reconsider are those who spent millions of AD buying T2 items on the AH with the intention of reselling them at a massive profit after the BoP change.
Now, there are a few ways the current system can be improved, but let's first look at what the goals of any such improvements should be.
* You want to keep the players happy and ensure that they continue playing, and recommend the game to their friends, thus growing the playerbase.
* You want (some) players to spend enough on Zen purchases to make the game profitable (and in the process, provide a free-to-play game for those who do not wish to purchase Zen.
* Players want the game to be entertaining, and in particular, have the right reward/work ratio. Make that ratio too low and people will feel that the game is not worth their time and will leave. Make it too high, and you will alienate the truly competitive players.
* Realize that not all players are obsessed with gear - to some, getting the best gear (T2/BiS) is a goal - to others it is just a convenience - a way to accomplish their goals.
* You also need to get the challenge level right - make it too hard, and too many people will become frustrated and leave - only the "elite hardcore" will remain. Make it too easy, and the players looking for a real challenge will leave.
* Realize that you have several very different groups of players, and you need to try to keep them all reasonably happy or you will lose any group you neglect.
So, what can you do to accomplish those goals? Here are a few suggestions:
* Make professions more meaningful. Leadership is a must for the AD and I have high hopes for alchemy, but the crafting professions are a bit...meh...it is really not worthwhile to craft anything but a few of the items. Add more recipes producing high-end equipment, and make the components drop every now and then. Maybe make those component drop from the earlier dungeon bosses, encouraging people not to bypass them.
* Add more solo content - not everyone enjoys PvP, group dungeons or raids. Sure, you can solo the Foundry stuff, but that has some disadvantages. First, there are no resource nodes in foundries - yeah, I understand why - it would be far too easy to exploit - but it means the reward/work ratio is lower than in regular content. Second problem with foundries is the balancing - some foundry quests that were reasonably easy at level 10-20 become hard, even insanely hard at level 60. So, no - if I want to solo, I would love to run around in some mini-dungeon, perhaps collect some kinds of tokens that I could eventually exchange for something meaningful. Adding a few repeatable solo quests like that would make the solo players more happy.
* Fix the seal system - as it is, players may well bypass the seal items altogether - they level up too fast to get enough seals of any particular type to be able to purchase anything for them, and at level 60 the seal items are ... uhm...not as good as stuff that you can buy at AH. Maybe you can introduce some "epic seals", maybe allow people to purchase fashion items with seals, maybe companion-only items - the point is, the seals are kind-of pointless now.
* The "Need->BoP, Greed->BoE" system has been suggested by so many people I am not going to repeat that, but together with the "no need on unusable items" it should work really well.
* Too many of the existing high-end dungeons can be trivialized by people somehow bypassing the earlier bosses. Now, you can try to fix that by forcing people to go through them all, but another approach would be to penalize those who skip the earlier bosses - or rather, reward those who go through the entire dungeon. You could make the final boss drop some extra loot if all earlier bosses have been killed. You could award points/token for completely clearing a dungeon, say, 1 point for Cloak Tower and 20 points for CN - then either allow people to exchange those points/tokens for something useful or maybe just fashion items - or alternatively, make a server-wide high-score list - that should appeal to a certain group of players.
* Someone suggested that in order to be able to wear/use epic items specific to a particular dungeon (T1/T2 armour/weapons), you would actually need to have completed that dungeon - sure, you may not have gotten the drop you want, but you have at least shown that you have the skills. This would completely prevent people from decking out in T2/BiS gear within an hour after hitting 60, but it would not unfairly hurt the casual players who have no time to grind the same dungeons over and over, but have the skills to complete them. Many people who bought their gear at the AH would be hurt by this - unable to wear their gear for a while, but hey - they would still have it...would just need to earn the right to use it. Now, of course I have no idea if you can actually change the gear to have a "requires achievment X to wear", so I don't know if this is realistic, but I think most people would consider this fair.
* Make gold actually useful for something at lvl 60 (other than potions/kits). There are too many currencies in the game, and it is somewhat silly that gold is the most worthless one.
* The "salvage" idea wasn't all bad, and would be a welcome way to get rid of used/bound gear when upgrading it. However, it is pointless if the dealer only gives out a small amount of rough ADs. You can already get 24.000 rough AD per day through leadership tasks and invocation - so why would I want more rough ones?
Hi all i am not sure if this is read by the Devs but if it is here is a suggestion on looting as well as geting to end game to play. This is only my personal View and if it is helpful great.
1- make all purple very rare items BoP for class specific items, and all rare items can be roll as BoE as people still need to sell things on AH to make AD or get items for companions. All none class very rare purple should be BoE as people can take for companions.
2- put in a very rare item on the last boss with a fair drop rate in the level 59 or 60 dungons to give people that just hit 60 a chance to gear for T1 dungons and run these dungons
3- make the dungon finder more proactive and Put in incentive for people to use by adding AD or extra rewards for completeing a dungon through the dungon finder, this way more people will use the system to gear and dont need to fight for a guild to take them in
4- what is the point of gold other then buy potions and repair? and may be a companion and a starter mont. Either make gold worth more by alowing exchange for AD or even items that can boost crafting not the treads or stuff you can buy with silver, i mean the stuff you get in special box, or get rid of it and use AD for everything. This is the only game i know which use so many diffrent currency Zen AD Gold etc so atleast make gold worth more with purchase power.
hope this helps
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piperhackMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Drop changes
Need = BOP, Greed = BOE
Final boss drops -> BOP
Final boss Tier drop chances = 50%
T2 Chests should only drops T2 level equipment
Epic BoE drops by trash mobs.
Every Member has garanteed Seals + Gold + 1 Enchanment from bosses.
1 Boss = 50s + Rank 4 enchan. Random: Green Asset (10%) / Blue Asset (5%) / Epic Asset (1%) / Green Ward (5%) / Key (1%).
2 Boss = 1g + Rank 4 enchan. Random: Green Asset (10%) / Blue Asset (5%) / Epic Asset (1%) / Green Ward (5%) / Key (1%).
3 Boss = 2g + Rank 5 enchan. Random: Green Asset (20%) / Blue Asset (10%) / Epic Asset (2%) / Blue Ward (5%) / Key (2%).
Add special drops (mounts, unique dyes, fashion).
Add rewards in kills performance (killing bosses: first try, less than 8 min., without deaths)
Game
New option: Set auto Greed (white, green, blue)
Add Salvage option to AD (not rough): T1 (2000), T2 (6000)
Redesign less value Weapon / Armor enhancements. 90% players use Plaguefire, Vorpal, Soulforged and Holy Avenger.
New Level 20 profession recipe: Add slot to armor piece (item -> Bound)
Add enchanments to seal vendors
Fixes
Change respawn points, should only trigger when you are in 50yrds range and out of combat
CN - Fix Window
Spider - Lower health pool
Spellplague - Reduce trash
Dread Vault - Fix fireplaces, Nerf Yshiggol or Delete this Dungeon
What exactly would need=bop, greed=boe fix?
People will still roll need on whatever they can just to vender it. (or salvage it)
People will still get booted from dungeons after the last boss dies so the leader gets all the loot.
People will no longer be able to get the gear they need to run the dungeons for AD. (no way to sell on AH)
And it still will not get more people into dungeon delves.
So what does it "fix"
I may sound a bit jaded but these things are true.
The need / greed / pass system is a flawed system that assumes the best from people.
It just doesn't happen.
People will roll need for whatever reason they can think of, and feel justified in doing so.
Getting a rare drop that is best in slot, or needed for progression no longer makes one feel happy. On the contrary it is more like an "about F-n time" feeling. Add bop and everyone else rolling on it and it becomes a "F-it" moment.
Dungeon delves needs to be worth it for every person that does them, Not just 1.
The entire system is inherently flawed, you can't base collecting 'Best in Slot' on random luck. End. Of. Story.
No gen2+ has been successful with that system, EQ2, WoW, AoC, Darkfall and many others *started* with random luck systems and through massive player feedback and innate necessary progressive game design phased it out, it's a bad system...even the original games (EQ&Ultima) that started the completely random trend don't have them anymore.
Waiting for possibly infinity to finish a *set* burns people out, and makes them quit. Knowing that if they spend X time every day, week or month and after a certain investment are assured to arrive at an ends are much more motivated & much less likely to quit because they can't attain what they need.
Just wanted to take a moment to say that I really appreciate the approach being taken with regard to loot. "Endgame" is pretty much unquestionably the worst thing about MMOs, it is in this final stage of gameplay that one game after another falls apart to a sea of internet rage about how the game is garbage. The trouble is that the MMO player base isn't monolithic and the folks who spend their money playing these games don't all want the same thing. I am loving Neverwinter so far but if there is one thing I'd really love to see it would be a tapered down approach to end game gear grind. Certainly I like the idea of different options and varying power scales of gear, but the standard approach of endless gear ladder is pretty tired and obviously not working when every game in the industry tries it only to meet the same "endgame" complaints.
Certainly BoE gear ladder cheapens the end game material, particularly for the hardcore players. But BoP gear ladder squeezes out anyone who doesn't intend to spend their life logged in. Over the years it seems like MMO developers have given up on the idea of doing anything different with end game and always just go to the standard BoP gear ladder design. Oddly I think this whole thing was handled much better in some of the older games.
As much as I love GW2, I think the game probably went too far with their decision to dump the gear ladder (later reversed with Ascended Gear). I think that games like LotRO surprisingly handled this much better with a certain budget afforded to all end game gear and a solid cap of diminishing returns on gear after a point. Token systems with caps on how frequently dungeons can be run are one alternate approach, but there are a number that could work and I hope that PW/Cryptic puts some serious time into thinking what they want to be the "draw" that keeps people playing Neverwinter for years to come.
Just give badges and have the gear at a vendor.........t1 and t2 make it to were u still have to run certain dungeons so like seal of the crow for chest and seal of the dog for head piece and so on. So that you still habe to run certain dungeons to get certain pieces.........bam problem solved.
EDIT: Yes this fix would be ideally for curbing ninja looters, but that's also a large portion (from my experiences) of why some people buy gear to begin with; I mean seriously, drop rates are already low, you're competing with 4 others for gear, and to top it off if your piece DOES drop there is a high chance someone will just ninja it.
Currently the only way around that is forming/joining successful guild just so you can even play the end game content without fear someone is just good to spam need every time loot drops. This would help curb that and make it more viable for someone to run a dungeon outside of the DD event.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
On Topic: All gear past T1 should be BoP with the exception of minor T2's (I.E. Non-Set pieces like necklaces/belts).
Well they did make the change to where if the item is for your class others can't need it, which has been a good move. As for like rings, neck, belt, those are still up for grabs for anybody.
Will not stop "ninja looters".
It will not get people into dungeons.
It doesn't "fix" anything.
It is the same thing that was already shot down (most things BoP)with a candy coat.
It would cause the same problems as the original idea.
N/G/P just needs to be done away with.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
edited June 2013
Make it simple:
1) Remove boss loots
2) Add a chest for everyone in the group (2 chests while the event or 100% chance to get an item in the chest)
3) In the chest, you have 40% -> no top item (other resources or items), 30% -> class item, 30% -> Non-class item. all items BoE
4) All are happy. All want to make dungeons
I know the solution, it's very simple: ALL END GAME SET PIECES AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE AT THE UNICORN/DRAKE SEALS VENDOR FOR VERY BIG AMOUNTS OF SEALS
Why: 1. Seals can't be bought for ZEN or AD, this means the gear can not be trivially purchased on the AH.
2. The gear is BoP, BUT you don't have to run endless of Dungeons to find that last piece of T2 armor, you'll afford it at the seals vendor after a number of runs. Idea = 400 Seal of the Drake for T2 Chest Armor.
Additional changes I would like to see along with this change: Salvage for AD is a great idea, and would work with this. Still keep rings, belts, necks and that kind of loot BoE. SOME equipment should also be Bound to Account. Another thing I would like in this game is Gear that levels up with your character, e.g. the equipment item is level 1 when you are, and level 2 when you are.
I think this is a great idea.
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jvilnisaustMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
I found that having items from end game available on the AH made it very easy to gear your toon when hitting 60.
I boguth a full set of Scrapper's gear for less than 25,000 AD for my GWF by hitting the AH.
You can't really fix things if the best gear is only dropping from the dungeon runs and can be put onto the AH by changing whether it is BoE or BoP. The randomness is still going to make people crazy by constantly running the same dungeon and not seeing the gear drop or missing the rolls for it all the time.
As suggested, make the bosses in the T1/T2/End dungeons drop a new seal and all players get a random number of seals (5-10) per boss per run and then get them to buy the gear they want from the seal vendors in the enclave.
I wanted to let you all know what's going on with the proposed changes to end game loot.
A bit ago, we got a good deal of feedback that the current system of end game items being BoE can create a scenario where the best gear sets can be trivially purchased on the Auction House. This could potentially have the effect of cheapening the endgame experience of dungeon delves. We listened, took a look and agreed it wasn't unfolding as intended.
The proposed BoP changes that went up on Preview were our first crack at a solution. The idea was that by switching the best set gear to BoP it would be more prestigious. Adding the salvage vendor would continue to guarantee an important source of Astral Diamonds for high end bound items.
Once again, thanks to everyone who took the time to check them out and give us feedback. We got a lot of great comments both for and against the change which is exactly what we need from the community!
Your effort helped us to find several important issues:
With the current reward system, changing everything to BoP would make it prohibitively more difficult to complete your gear sets by running dungeons.
Loot drops, in their current state, can be exceptionally random, and the proposed changes would make that feel worse.
Getting the best slottable items for Companions that are a different class than your character would be extremely difficult.
While the proposed changes would fix one of the end game issues they would also create new ones that we aren't happy with and don't want to see on the live game. So these changes aren't going live yet. We still see an issue where the accomplishments of end game dungeon runners could be undermined by the ease of getting similar or equal gear through the Auction House, so we aren't done yet. We're taking all of your feedback and looking at new ways to solve what isn't working without hurting what is working.
A change like this is pretty huge, and we want to make sure we take the time to get it right. Please keep the feedback coming, it really does help us make a better game!
-Zeke
Excellent! I'm glad you're looking at different solutions besides just a solid change. The update is always appreciated.
1.) Add more loot to Seal vendors - basically slightly less powerful versions of all the gear in the game. For God's sake, give them set bonuses.
.
I would like to see this, possibly up the seal cost in return, but me like many others are sitting on hundreds of drake seals for....yea. Also it would be nice if I could use my drake seals to say, buy gear for my guardian fighter or cw or w/e. I know I can trade with other people for items, but it would generally just be one of those little quality of life tweaks that would make me slightly happier with vendor loot.
I know the solution, it's very simple: ALL END GAME SET PIECES AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE AT THE UNICORN/DRAKE SEALS VENDOR FOR VERY BIG AMOUNTS OF SEALS
Why: 1. Seals can't be bought for ZEN or AD, this means the gear can not be trivially purchased on the AH.
2. The gear is BoP, BUT you don't have to run endless of Dungeons to find that last piece of T2 armor, you'll afford it at the seals vendor after a number of runs. Idea = 400 Seal of the Drake for T2 Chest Armor.
Additional changes I would like to see along with this change: Salvage for AD is a great idea, and would work with this. Still keep rings, belts, necks and that kind of loot BoE. SOME equipment should also be Bound to Account. Another thing I would like in this game is Gear that levels up with your character, e.g. the equipment item is level 1 when you are, and level 2 when you are.
I think this is a great idea.
It is kind of weird that they put so much effort into these seals that are basically worthless. At the same time however seal systems have their own set of problems. Generally I prefer them though.
Yes indeed. The items available at the seals vendor right now are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Some more expensive, slightly harder to get items would be awesome imo.
It is kind of weird that they put so much effort into these seals that are basically worthless. At the same time however seal systems have their own set of problems. Generally I prefer them though.
Neverwinter - Where the AH is the REAL end game. True power is determined only by the size of your wallet.
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ixsparMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited June 2013
Perhaps we should take a lesson from another MMO. DCUO made it so people cannot NEED roll on items that are not for their class. This ensures that people of the same class will be getting their class gear first. All items can be have GREED rolled on them, even cross-class. So ninja-looting would be greatly diminished.
Naturally, people will argue that they can't properly equip their companions, but companions are secondary from the players themselves.
The other thought is to make all the tier gear purchasable for marks rather than having them drop as loot. Many MMOs use this method with some deal of success. Everyone gets their marks and then goes to purchase the gear which is BoP. This would prevent the problems you're seeing. However, the argument is that it lacks the dungeons and dragons "feel" of finding loot, which is a very valid point.
Thank goodness you folks decided to reconsider the end game loot change and thank you for the update. There's been a few very good ideas floating around and I'm sure you fabulous devs have your own ideas as well. Here's mine.
Leave T1,PVP, and seal gear BoE. This gear is entry lvl gear into the harder content. Make all T2 set gear, Castle never gear BoP. Create a new tier of PVP gear and make that BoP. Make Gauntlegrym gear better then T2 gear and make that BoP.
This way people can still easily buy some entry level gear off the AH, people can farm gear to sell though not the truly expensive items annnnnnd the top end gear is now BoP.
Comments
I'm glad to see there are people out there that understand that the N/G/P loot system is a big part of the problem
I for one do not understand why they are trying to hold on to it. As they can clearly see it is a problem and needs to be replaced by individual loot.
I'm not saying that dungeons don't need to be retuned, because they do. I'm saying that a lot of people won't (don't)even go into one with the current loot system.
Making any of the loot bop will not change that. It just will make people mad.(as been shown)
I am starting to sound like a broken record though, but there is no better way for me to say it.
"N/G/P needs to go away. We should be fighting monsters for our loot, not our party members."
BoP loot wont make people want to run Dungeons more,the only thing it does is FORCE them to run them more... Timesink forced upon you to slow down your progress,so the devs dont have to create meaningfull content as fast..
Dont force me to run the same boring and 0 challenge dungeons over and over just to get my gear if im lucky,and if i am not i get considered a 2nd class player by those who got lucky,or got their gear before all the changes/exploit fixes etc..
I dont mind working for my gear,but i will not go to work and then MAYBE get paid ^^ I doubt any of you would work for a company that at the end rolls a dice and if you guess the Number you get your paycheck,if not well better luck next month
I love this idea so much.
My only objection to BoP gear was the fact that I don't want to run dungeons as the only way to earn gear. You see, I'm one of those odd people who don't like group/raiding content. And I really, really hate dungeons!
So up till now, I have spent all my time farming AD so that I can buy the gear I need from players who actually like running dungeons. This has given me a goal to strive for and has kept me happily playing.
If you make seals the new way to buy gear, then I'm perfectly happy with that. In fact, I'm more than happy with that. Because at the moment, I find I'm just running skirmishes over and over to farm AD (this gets very boring after a while).
So if seals are the new 'must have', then I will start farming seals instead of AD. I will actually be rewarded for exploring and killing monsters. I will actually be rewarded for playing Foundry missions. Wonderful! Absolutely wonderful!
At the moment, I actually discard 'Blacklake Coins' and other currency that you can exchange for seals, because I have no need for seals. But if I can buy the gear I need from seal vendors instead of the auction house, then I'm more than fine with that (even if that gear is BoP).
So all I'm really asking for is an alternative way for solo PvE players like me to earn gear. Please don't try to force me to run dungeons, I'm very stubborn and I won't be forced to do anything
Now, there are a few ways the current system can be improved, but let's first look at what the goals of any such improvements should be.
* You want to keep the players happy and ensure that they continue playing, and recommend the game to their friends, thus growing the playerbase.
* You want (some) players to spend enough on Zen purchases to make the game profitable (and in the process, provide a free-to-play game for those who do not wish to purchase Zen.
* Players want the game to be entertaining, and in particular, have the right reward/work ratio. Make that ratio too low and people will feel that the game is not worth their time and will leave. Make it too high, and you will alienate the truly competitive players.
* Realize that not all players are obsessed with gear - to some, getting the best gear (T2/BiS) is a goal - to others it is just a convenience - a way to accomplish their goals.
* You also need to get the challenge level right - make it too hard, and too many people will become frustrated and leave - only the "elite hardcore" will remain. Make it too easy, and the players looking for a real challenge will leave.
* Realize that you have several very different groups of players, and you need to try to keep them all reasonably happy or you will lose any group you neglect.
So, what can you do to accomplish those goals? Here are a few suggestions:
* Make professions more meaningful. Leadership is a must for the AD and I have high hopes for alchemy, but the crafting professions are a bit...meh...it is really not worthwhile to craft anything but a few of the items. Add more recipes producing high-end equipment, and make the components drop every now and then. Maybe make those component drop from the earlier dungeon bosses, encouraging people not to bypass them.
* Add more solo content - not everyone enjoys PvP, group dungeons or raids. Sure, you can solo the Foundry stuff, but that has some disadvantages. First, there are no resource nodes in foundries - yeah, I understand why - it would be far too easy to exploit - but it means the reward/work ratio is lower than in regular content. Second problem with foundries is the balancing - some foundry quests that were reasonably easy at level 10-20 become hard, even insanely hard at level 60. So, no - if I want to solo, I would love to run around in some mini-dungeon, perhaps collect some kinds of tokens that I could eventually exchange for something meaningful. Adding a few repeatable solo quests like that would make the solo players more happy.
* Fix the seal system - as it is, players may well bypass the seal items altogether - they level up too fast to get enough seals of any particular type to be able to purchase anything for them, and at level 60 the seal items are ... uhm...not as good as stuff that you can buy at AH. Maybe you can introduce some "epic seals", maybe allow people to purchase fashion items with seals, maybe companion-only items - the point is, the seals are kind-of pointless now.
* The "Need->BoP, Greed->BoE" system has been suggested by so many people I am not going to repeat that, but together with the "no need on unusable items" it should work really well.
* Too many of the existing high-end dungeons can be trivialized by people somehow bypassing the earlier bosses. Now, you can try to fix that by forcing people to go through them all, but another approach would be to penalize those who skip the earlier bosses - or rather, reward those who go through the entire dungeon. You could make the final boss drop some extra loot if all earlier bosses have been killed. You could award points/token for completely clearing a dungeon, say, 1 point for Cloak Tower and 20 points for CN - then either allow people to exchange those points/tokens for something useful or maybe just fashion items - or alternatively, make a server-wide high-score list - that should appeal to a certain group of players.
* Someone suggested that in order to be able to wear/use epic items specific to a particular dungeon (T1/T2 armour/weapons), you would actually need to have completed that dungeon - sure, you may not have gotten the drop you want, but you have at least shown that you have the skills. This would completely prevent people from decking out in T2/BiS gear within an hour after hitting 60, but it would not unfairly hurt the casual players who have no time to grind the same dungeons over and over, but have the skills to complete them. Many people who bought their gear at the AH would be hurt by this - unable to wear their gear for a while, but hey - they would still have it...would just need to earn the right to use it. Now, of course I have no idea if you can actually change the gear to have a "requires achievment X to wear", so I don't know if this is realistic, but I think most people would consider this fair.
* Make gold actually useful for something at lvl 60 (other than potions/kits). There are too many currencies in the game, and it is somewhat silly that gold is the most worthless one.
* The "salvage" idea wasn't all bad, and would be a welcome way to get rid of used/bound gear when upgrading it. However, it is pointless if the dealer only gives out a small amount of rough ADs. You can already get 24.000 rough AD per day through leadership tasks and invocation - so why would I want more rough ones?
1- make all purple very rare items BoP for class specific items, and all rare items can be roll as BoE as people still need to sell things on AH to make AD or get items for companions. All none class very rare purple should be BoE as people can take for companions.
2- put in a very rare item on the last boss with a fair drop rate in the level 59 or 60 dungons to give people that just hit 60 a chance to gear for T1 dungons and run these dungons
3- make the dungon finder more proactive and Put in incentive for people to use by adding AD or extra rewards for completeing a dungon through the dungon finder, this way more people will use the system to gear and dont need to fight for a guild to take them in
4- what is the point of gold other then buy potions and repair? and may be a companion and a starter mont. Either make gold worth more by alowing exchange for AD or even items that can boost crafting not the treads or stuff you can buy with silver, i mean the stuff you get in special box, or get rid of it and use AD for everything. This is the only game i know which use so many diffrent currency Zen AD Gold etc so atleast make gold worth more with purchase power.
hope this helps
2 Boss = 1g + Rank 4 enchan. Random: Green Asset (10%) / Blue Asset (5%) / Epic Asset (1%) / Green Ward (5%) / Key (1%).
3 Boss = 2g + Rank 5 enchan. Random: Green Asset (20%) / Blue Asset (10%) / Epic Asset (2%) / Blue Ward (5%) / Key (2%).
Game
Fixes
People will still roll need on whatever they can just to vender it. (or salvage it)
People will still get booted from dungeons after the last boss dies so the leader gets all the loot.
People will no longer be able to get the gear they need to run the dungeons for AD. (no way to sell on AH)
And it still will not get more people into dungeon delves.
So what does it "fix"
I may sound a bit jaded but these things are true.
The need / greed / pass system is a flawed system that assumes the best from people.
It just doesn't happen.
People will roll need for whatever reason they can think of, and feel justified in doing so.
Getting a rare drop that is best in slot, or needed for progression no longer makes one feel happy. On the contrary it is more like an "about F-n time" feeling. Add bop and everyone else rolling on it and it becomes a "F-it" moment.
Dungeon delves needs to be worth it for every person that does them, Not just 1.
i agree with this is the best solution
No gen2+ has been successful with that system, EQ2, WoW, AoC, Darkfall and many others *started* with random luck systems and through massive player feedback and innate necessary progressive game design phased it out, it's a bad system...even the original games (EQ&Ultima) that started the completely random trend don't have them anymore.
Waiting for possibly infinity to finish a *set* burns people out, and makes them quit. Knowing that if they spend X time every day, week or month and after a certain investment are assured to arrive at an ends are much more motivated & much less likely to quit because they can't attain what they need.
Certainly BoE gear ladder cheapens the end game material, particularly for the hardcore players. But BoP gear ladder squeezes out anyone who doesn't intend to spend their life logged in. Over the years it seems like MMO developers have given up on the idea of doing anything different with end game and always just go to the standard BoP gear ladder design. Oddly I think this whole thing was handled much better in some of the older games.
As much as I love GW2, I think the game probably went too far with their decision to dump the gear ladder (later reversed with Ascended Gear). I think that games like LotRO surprisingly handled this much better with a certain budget afforded to all end game gear and a solid cap of diminishing returns on gear after a point. Token systems with caps on how frequently dungeons can be run are one alternate approach, but there are a number that could work and I hope that PW/Cryptic puts some serious time into thinking what they want to be the "draw" that keeps people playing Neverwinter for years to come.
I like this solution.
Greed = BoE
Will not stop "ninja looters".
It will not get people into dungeons.
It doesn't "fix" anything.
It is the same thing that was already shot down (most things BoP)with a candy coat.
It would cause the same problems as the original idea.
N/G/P just needs to be done away with.
1) Remove boss loots
2) Add a chest for everyone in the group (2 chests while the event or 100% chance to get an item in the chest)
3) In the chest, you have 40% -> no top item (other resources or items), 30% -> class item, 30% -> Non-class item. all items BoE
4) All are happy. All want to make dungeons
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Why:
1. Seals can't be bought for ZEN or AD, this means the gear can not be trivially purchased on the AH.
2. The gear is BoP, BUT you don't have to run endless of Dungeons to find that last piece of T2 armor, you'll afford it at the seals vendor after a number of runs. Idea = 400 Seal of the Drake for T2 Chest Armor.
Additional changes I would like to see along with this change: Salvage for AD is a great idea, and would work with this. Still keep rings, belts, necks and that kind of loot BoE. SOME equipment should also be Bound to Account. Another thing I would like in this game is Gear that levels up with your character, e.g. the equipment item is level 1 when you are, and level 2 when you are.
I think this is a great idea.
I boguth a full set of Scrapper's gear for less than 25,000 AD for my GWF by hitting the AH.
You can't really fix things if the best gear is only dropping from the dungeon runs and can be put onto the AH by changing whether it is BoE or BoP. The randomness is still going to make people crazy by constantly running the same dungeon and not seeing the gear drop or missing the rolls for it all the time.
As suggested, make the bosses in the T1/T2/End dungeons drop a new seal and all players get a random number of seals (5-10) per boss per run and then get them to buy the gear they want from the seal vendors in the enclave.
Excellent! I'm glad you're looking at different solutions besides just a solid change. The update is always appreciated.
I would like to see this, possibly up the seal cost in return, but me like many others are sitting on hundreds of drake seals for....yea. Also it would be nice if I could use my drake seals to say, buy gear for my guardian fighter or cw or w/e. I know I can trade with other people for items, but it would generally just be one of those little quality of life tweaks that would make me slightly happier with vendor loot.
It is kind of weird that they put so much effort into these seals that are basically worthless. At the same time however seal systems have their own set of problems. Generally I prefer them though.
Ops, forgot to quote
Naturally, people will argue that they can't properly equip their companions, but companions are secondary from the players themselves.
The other thought is to make all the tier gear purchasable for marks rather than having them drop as loot. Many MMOs use this method with some deal of success. Everyone gets their marks and then goes to purchase the gear which is BoP. This would prevent the problems you're seeing. However, the argument is that it lacks the dungeons and dragons "feel" of finding loot, which is a very valid point.
Greed = BoE
Its that easy... And fix all exploits for the shortcuts!!!
Uh..you haven't played much recently, have you? This was implemented a week ago, I think
Leave T1,PVP, and seal gear BoE. This gear is entry lvl gear into the harder content. Make all T2 set gear, Castle never gear BoP. Create a new tier of PVP gear and make that BoP. Make Gauntlegrym gear better then T2 gear and make that BoP.
This way people can still easily buy some entry level gear off the AH, people can farm gear to sell though not the truly expensive items annnnnnd the top end gear is now BoP.