So, you're going to decrease glory gain for losing team huh?

pinkfont
pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
So, you're going to decrease glory gain for losing team huh?

You do realize what will happen as a result of this, right?

People will leave matches once it's obvious they will not win. If you guys are annoyed at all these 3v5 games now, just wait until there's literally no reason to stay in a game that you're losing. Every game will end up as a 1v5.

Right now, the situation isn't perfect but at least there's a silver lining. Yeah getting stuck in a match with one bot running around in circles and one person disconnected sucks, but at least once you inevitably get face-rolled and lose, you still get something worthwhile for your efforts. Take that away, and why shouldn't you just leave and try to find another game with a more balanced team?

Why wouldn't you leave?
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Post edited by pinkfont on
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Comments

  • ambisinisterr
    ambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    Exactly why leaving penalties are required.

    In the mean time the high glory reward for losing is what causes so many players to AFK and supplying bots with excessive amounts of Astral Diamonds. Like it or not the system was completely over-rewarding to the losing team.

    They are already rampantly leaving to begin with. Bottom line is PvPers are known for rage quitting for losing and every PvP Game has adequate punishments for it. The fact it is missing here was a problem to begin with.
    Rewarding for staying rewards bots and AFKers.
  • elawyn
    elawyn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    PvP should, ideally, be a zero-sum game.

    As in, the winners only gain what the losers lose.

    As is, it's a win-win game whether you win or lose. Why try to be 'the best you can be' when you can simply enter the arena and go eat lunch while your toon racks up free rewards.
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Exactly why leaving penalties are required.

    In the mean time the high glory reward for losing is what causes so many players to AFK and supplying bots with excessive amounts of Astral Diamonds. Like it or not the system was completely over-rewarding to the losing team.

    They are already rampantly leaving to begin with. Bottom line is PvPers are known for rage quitting for losing and every PvP Game has adequate punishments for it. The fact it is missing here was a problem to begin with.
    Rewarding for staying rewards bots and AFKers.

    Please, tell me what a leaving penalty would accomplish? You would literally only be punishing legit players, since bots don't leave the matches they ruin. They only benefit from them. Look at it this way: It has proven impossible to get rid of these exploiters, so you have to admit that the current state of PvP probably won't change much. That means we will be dealing with grossly unbalanced teams and afk bots for the foreseeable future. Your solution is to penalize those players who are sick of it all and just want to find a better match. In the end, it just seems like people would stop playing the PvP altogether. The only reason we don't have a major problem with leavers right now, is because there's a benefit to playing the match for everyone. Once the glory gain is decreased, it will only benefit the team lucky enough to get on the side with less bots.
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • mconosrep
    mconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Reducing glory for losing is fine, but please do makes sure that arranged groups are only placed against arranged groups otherwise you will lose almost all the solo PvP players (other than bots ofc).
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    elawyn wrote: »
    PvP should, ideally, be a zero-sum game.

    As in, the winners only gain what the losers lose.

    As is, it's a win-win game whether you win or lose. Why try to be 'the best you can be' when you can simply enter the arena and go eat lunch while your toon racks up free rewards.

    Because when you win you get double the amount of glory, a free blue item to sell for gold, and the game is actually fun for you.

    If you're losing a competitive match then it's still fun and you still get something.

    If you're losing because half your team is afk/bots, then not only are you having no fun but apparently you don't deserve anything for your trouble and if you even think of leaving you should be punished. And after three or so games of this treatment, you actually think anyone is going to stick around?

    The only reason people haven't abandoned this broken PvP is because it's worthwhile to do. Everything in an MMO should be rewarding. It's the entire point! This is a carrot-on-a-stick genre!
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • sneakyervin
    sneakyervin Member Posts: 101
    edited June 2013
    People leaving arent "legit" players, they are quitters. A leave penalty would push them to endure even if they like to take the easy road out. This would inturn make most of those people better player, since they wouldnt fight in only winning games.

    Without a penalty quitters will just match jump till they find a winning game and getting free glory, not any better than bots or afkers IMO.

    Or they could just force people to stay in the match and give them no option to leave after the gates open.

    Some form of penalty is needed for your so called "legit" *cough*quitters*cough* players.
  • kevinf08
    kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    IIRC you can't queue for pvp even if you leave so I don't see why people would leave because they are losing. You will still get "some" glory and 1/4 off dailly, besides pvp is fun.

    IF you can queue, i'll take leavers over bots any day, althought i haven't really been seeing bots @ 60 lately was mostly just while leveling up. I think they should nerf the xp gain considerably to stop the afk bots using pvp to level, not sure if that's in the balance patch.
  • lltsnwn
    lltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »

    Why wouldn't you leave?

    Daily PvP quest credit.
    12.jpgRanger.jpg
  • ambisinisterr
    ambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    IIRC you can't queue for pvp even if you leave so I don't see why people would leave because they are losing. You will still get "some" glory and 1/4 off dailly, besides pvp is fun.

    I'm fairly certain, though untested because I refuse to rage quit, that players who leave are permitted to queue again right away which is the problem.
    If they at least couldn't queue for the duration of the match then I'd be happy. That's a penalty. However right now people are leaving within the first couple of minutes to be on a winning team and that's not something which should occur.

    It makes the losing team miserable.
    It makes PvP for the winning team less enjoyable. (unless you're just going to be <censored>)
    Nobody wins...except the leavers.


    And lowering the rewards (with a proper punishment for leaving early) would solve both issues and provide an overall better PvP experience.
  • zagrim#6754
    zagrim#6754 Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    People leaving arent "legit" players, they are quitters. A leave penalty would push them to endure even if they like to take the easy road out. This would inturn make most of those people better player, since they wouldnt fight in only winning games.

    Without a penalty quitters will just match jump till they find a winning game and getting free glory, not any better than bots or afkers IMO.

    Or they could just force people to stay in the match and give them no option to leave after the gates open.

    Some form of penalty is needed for your so called "legit" *cough*quitters*cough* players.

    People dont want to "endure", they want to have fun. And playing 3vs5 or worse is not fun (I dont count bots as players). And people dont quit just so they can join a "winning game and getting free glory". They quit so they can have a fair fight and have fun. Dont know about you but there are two game types I do not enjoy. And that is being stomped or doing the stomping. I enjoy even games where the winning team isnt decided in the first 30sec.

    So if you put in a penalty for leaving..people will still leave games instead of "endure" them and go do something else. At least thats what I will be doing. I would like to add, I do not PvP for the glory, I have zero use for glory. I only PvP to have some fun..and when a game isnt fun I'll leave and either requeue or do something else.
  • elawyn
    elawyn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    Everything in an MMO should be rewarding. It's the entire point! This is a carrot-on-a-stick genre!

    Depends on your definition of 'rewarding' I guess. I'm guessing you are talking about purely material rewards here tho. Which seems to be one of the prevailing attitudes around here from reading the complaints about 'green items' dropping. This is known as the 'Monty Haul' syndrome. Players constantly wanting more. No matter what they get, they always want more.

    If it's not more purple items, its more levels, if it's not more levels it's more classes, if it's not more classes it's more races.

    Bot's/aFK are a problem, so are rage quitters, so are team leaders that kick folks right at the end. It's all greed greed greed.

    Some things should be addressed with a stick, rather than a carrot. If all there is are carrots, that inevitably leads to this type of issue.
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    People leaving arent "legit" players, they are quitters. A leave penalty would push them to endure even if they like to take the easy road out. This would inturn make most of those people better player, since they wouldnt fight in only winning games.

    Without a penalty quitters will just match jump till they find a winning game and getting free glory, not any better than bots or afkers IMO.

    Or they could just force people to stay in the match and give them no option to leave after the gates open.

    Some form of penalty is needed for your so called "legit" *cough*quitters*cough* players.

    You use the word "quitter" as if we're talking about people who leave simply because their opponents are more skilled than them. We're not! You make it sound as if it's a good thing to force players to stick around for something that isn't competitive and isn't fun. What exactly is the point of forcing them to "endure" these broken matches. What you're saying doesn't make any sense.

    Basically here's the situation under your suggestion:

    "Rev up those engines PWI, because I'm ready for some face-paced PvP action!"

    Player queues up for PvP Domination with an excited look upon his naive, youthful features.

    "Oh no! All my teammates seem to be running in circles at base! What am I ever to do? Maybe I can still fight..."

    Gets killed.

    "Maybe if I sneak for the furthest node I can cap it without anyone noticing..."

    Gets killed.

    "Maybe if I just run along in circles in base this will at least go by quicker..."

    Rogue deft strikes into base. CW teleports into base. Player proceeds to die over and over again.

    "Well this in no fun, at least I'm getting enough glory for my T1 set..."

    Nope.

    "Well, maybe I'll just leave."

    Nope. Penalty.

    "Well, maybe I just won't play this stupid mode anymore."

    And scene.


    So yes, you've successfully forced the player to stay in a game he couldn't possibly have fun in and couldn't possibly get any worthwhile rewards for. Mission accomplished?
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • viciousjedi
    viciousjedi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There is going to be a ton of new players come june 20th. Since the game will drop the open beta tag... that means new blood. Having a system in place for pvp to promote actual focus on winning is a good thing. Losing on purpose over and over.. or doing what I have seen.. where a person gets lead and they just boot everyone out to guarantee the other team a win is what has inspired these changes as well.

    When my guild has gone together in pre-mades and we go against another pre-made its actually been a blast. So having a system to inspire more focused play is all good in my book. WE need it.
    Old School gamer, reviewer of mmos and slayer of dragons.
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    IIRC you can't queue for pvp even if you leave so I don't see why people would leave because they are losing. You will still get "some" glory and 1/4 off dailly, besides pvp is fun.

    IF you can queue, i'll take leavers over bots any day, althought i haven't really been seeing bots @ 60 lately was mostly just while leveling up. I think they should nerf the xp gain considerably to stop the afk bots using pvp to level, not sure if that's in the balance patch.

    Yes, PvP is fun when it's competitive. Or at least 5 legit players fighting another 5 legit players. How many of these games have you had recently, by the way?

    Regardless, MMOs aren't built around doing things simply because they are "fun". It's a great bonus, sure. The PvP in the game is simple enough for even someone with my lack of skills to do well, and that is a very fun experience. But, it also needs to be rewarding. You wouldn't suggest that they remove considerable rewards from the PvE dungeons and that people should just do them for "fun". That's absurd.

    And yes, if there's anything that will make the PvP more appealing it's glory nerfs, XP nerfs, and leaver penalties. I can just see the PvP crowd rolling into this game in droves!
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    lltsnwn wrote: »
    Daily PvP quest credit.

    I can just see people doing exactly 4 PvP matches everyday, just for the AD. And I doubt they would even bother playing without the promise of glory/XP/a-match-without-bots-and-unbalanced-teams. Just put a heavy object on your "W" you key and have your character run into the wall for the entire match. Maybe grab a drink. I wonder what's on HBO? Wait, why is the band playing the rains of castamere? Robb no!!!! ;_;

    There is going to be a ton of new players come june 20th. Since the game will drop the open beta tag... that means new blood. Having a system in place for pvp to promote actual focus on winning is a good thing. Losing on purpose over and over.. or doing what I have seen.. where a person gets lead and they just boot everyone out to guarantee the other team a win is what has inspired these changes as well.

    When my guild has gone together in pre-mades and we go against another pre-made its actually been a blast. So having a system to inspire more focused play is all good in my book. WE need it.

    Yes, I'm sure a game with two pre-made groups would be very fun. It would pretty much ensure good, competitive matches every round.

    Not sure what making PvP less appealing has to do with that, but good point.
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • tanglethorn
    tanglethorn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have to say I completely agree with ambisinister. The system PWE is setting up for PvP penalties is used in a few other MMOs and for the most part it works. We need a fix to the current system and the current proposed changes have my vote.
  • cichard
    cichard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    Please, tell me what a leaving penalty would accomplish? You would literally only be punishing legit players, since bots don't leave the matches they ruin. They only benefit from them. Look at it this way: It has proven impossible to get rid of these exploiters, so you have to admit that the current state of PvP probably won't change much. That means we will be dealing with grossly unbalanced teams and afk bots for the foreseeable future. Your solution is to penalize those players who are sick of it all and just want to find a better match. In the end, it just seems like people would stop playing the PvP altogether. The only reason we don't have a major problem with leavers right now, is because there's a benefit to playing the match for everyone. Once the glory gain is decreased, it will only benefit the team lucky enough to get on the side with less bots.

    Ok so if you lose you get no glory!!! if you leave you cant re que for 30min.. This would solve the bots because their team will lose so they will get no glory and it will solve people leaving if you losing because they wont be able to que for 30mins.

    doing this would make it unprofitable for the bots hense they wont bot pvp anymore.
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    elawyn wrote: »
    Depends on your definition of 'rewarding' I guess. I'm guessing you are talking about purely material rewards here tho. Which seems to be one of the prevailing attitudes around here from reading the complaints about 'green items' dropping. This is known as the 'Monty Haul' syndrome. Players constantly wanting more. No matter what they get, they always want more.

    If it's not more purple items, its more levels, if it's not more levels it's more classes, if it's not more classes it's more races.

    Bot's/aFK are a problem, so are rage quitters, so are team leaders that kick folks right at the end. It's all greed greed greed.

    Some things should be addressed with a stick, rather than a carrot. If all there is are carrots, that inevitably leads to this type of issue.

    But how is your suggestion anymore rewarding? This is the issue I have. Literally all the things you guys are suggesting doesn't make the PvP more fun. It doesn't really do anything. Are bots going to stop farming glory because there's less of it? They do this thing all day. If you're on Dragon server then you must have seen Ariel right? It's a daily thing watching this moron run around in circles. It's so expected that I feel like my day is missing something if I don't see her. Honestly if you want to get rid of bots, you might as well strip all rewards away from the losing team. In fact, people should get punished for losing.

    Yeah, that's the ticket. Who's with me?
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • pinkfont
    pinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    cichard wrote: »
    Ok so if you lose you get no glory!!! if you leave you cant re que for 30min.. This would solve the bots because their team will lose so they will get no glory and it will solve people leaving if you losing because they wont be able to que for 30mins.

    doing this would make it unprofitable for the bots hense they wont bot pvp anymore.

    Yes, this would probably work. There would be no reason to be a bot anymore.

    But like I said, anything in an MMO that doesn't reward you in some way, is missing the point.
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • noroblad
    noroblad Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    To solve the problem you have to identify it. Anything else is just chasing your tail treating symptoms instead of the root cause(s).

    There are all sorts of things that encourage farming pvp, and those are the issues....
    1) good rewards (xp and gear) for doing nothing at all. Bad plan?
    2) difficult to compete if not in best gear, so afk farming until competitive seems useful
    3) difficult to compete as a pve player with a pve spec. Pay to respec or stink, may as well afk farm.
    4) no penalty for afk farming

    and so on.

    And looking at them, each one can be solve with simple tweaks. examples..

    1) rewards have to be off doing things. Damage taken, damage done, healing done, player's map coordinate trail, those sorts of things. A few metrics of this sort and a bit of logic can be used to cook up a test for whether a person was trying or not.

    2) fix gear score and then allocate teams off gear score. This should be easy, the biggest issue is the flawed GS computation. If it weighted all things equally, it would probably do better.

    3) offer 2 specs that we can swap between. Tweaking THOSE can cost money, fine.

    4) Remove about 3 "won" matches worth of glory from the player.

    4 works for the new issue as well --- leave the match before it is over, lose 3 won matches worth of glory. Problem solved.
  • viciousjedi
    viciousjedi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lets use real sports as an example. a League like.. Baseball or Basketball.. What do you get from losing?
    Nothing as far as a reward. Now when it comes to individual glory a player night do something special. What losing does do if handled in the right frame by leaders of a team that loses is to teach their team something. Learn from the loss.

    One thing I hate doing is giving up on a battleground. I had a battleground a few days ago.. we were losing 500-100. it was 5 on 5.
    I spoke up in party chat and pointed out what was going wrong. Then slowly but surely.. we began to 2 cap to their 1.. and the points began to flip around. When the battle was over we won 1000-950. It was glorious!
    Then a few days later we had another battle that just went back and forth.. from start to finish and it ended up 1000-990. It was nuts. really Pumped my group and in fact.. after the event.. we recruited one of the players.. from the apposing team. In fact in the end both teams had so much fun.. we ended up recruiting the entire team and most of their friends into my guild.

    WE are getting ready for June 20th! So honestly these changes are welcomed.
    Old School gamer, reviewer of mmos and slayer of dragons.
  • mechjockey
    mechjockey Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you play other games, you probably have a very good idea of what will happen here because it is exactly what happens elsewhere. Premade teams will completely dominate the arenas, Bots/afkers will not go away because it is something for nothing for them. People who are solo queuing will have a really bad time until they decide to AFK.
  • mechjockey
    mechjockey Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lets use real sports as an example. a League like.. Baseball or Basketball.. What do you get from losing?
    Nothing as far as a reward.

    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team


    lowest median salary in baseball was 1.2 million pretty big nothing
  • nornsavant
    nornsavant Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Spending the pvp match on your back is not fun. Hanging in the air like a melee pinata is not fun. 5v2 matchups are not fun. But then Maybe I am being too thin skinned. Always a possibility.

    However punishment is never the best way. It may be the only way for some mindsets but there really is a better way in my opinion. Instead of plotting to harm people’s experience if they don’t want to play with you. Why not address the issue that makes them leave in the first place?

    Why do people leave? Because they know they will fail and they don’t want to fail. Perhaps they see that their teammates are bad or they not an uneven matchup, perhaps they know that they cannot beat whatever class is over there on that team.

    So the secret here is to take away that certainty, remove the instant understanding that a player has no chance and would be better off watching TV than taking consistent beatings online. Structure the matches such that there is no real certainty of defeat until the last man is quite literally dead or the last point is lost.

    I know this may seem like innovative thinking to the crew that thought standing on a point was going to be hot and new, but just a few neurons more and you can have some real magic here. Since I known the devs are busy and might be between sugar highs at the moment perhaps the people here can help with some ideas. What are some ways that PVP matches can be made a tight race right up until the end.

    Spirit Guns
    How about when you die you have the option of possessing one of the many wall mounted ballista, while you are there you can target and fire the ballista or you can respawn. The ballista is not powerful enough to threaten a team but you could kill a single player standing on a point by himself trying to ninja cap.

    Send out the hounds!
    When you die in a particular place you have the option of adding an additional 12 seconds onto your respawn delay counter but you get to trigger a wave of mobs for your side. They are just ai adds like PVE mobs and when your times is up you get to respawn as well.

    Ch-ch-ch-changes
    Polymorph points or potions. You can grab this and it turns you into a creature, preferably a big or menacing creature. You can’t be killed while in this form, the HP of the monster is how long the form stays and when it is gone you change back and start taking damage for real. Your powers are replaced in this form with the creature’s abilities which might not be as effective as yours.

    Juggernaught!
    Being CCed confers a chance to trigger the juggernaught effect on a toon where they grow larger and become immune to CC and the damage of CC attacks for a time. There can only be one juggernaught at a time.

    Celestial Destiny
    Being healed by a player gives a chance to trigger a celestial that hovers over the battle field healing everyone from your team in range. It is targetable and the opposing team can kill it. There can only be one celestial on eth field at a time.

    Blood Feud
    Being killed by the same person multiple times in a row can trigger the blood feud effect where you do more damage to them and they show up on your mini map until you successfully kill them resetting the effect.

    Surprise!
    Captured points or certain places on the map give you the ability to teleport directly to a random opposing team member wherever they may be (outside the respawn place).

    Ritt der Walkuren
    When you die there is an option to mount a flying creature and strafe the battlefield. You soar over the field and can see the combatants as well as fire spells, missiles or breath weapons down at them for a limited time. The flight is on rails following a predetermined path before returning and sending you back to the field. You get to do the targeting though.


    These are just some thoughts, does anyone else have any ideas?
  • noroblad
    noroblad Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    those are great ideas nornsavant but it leaves a gaping hole. There would still be afk botters who just did not want to play but wanted the rewards to sell. They are called "gold sellers".
    That means your idea has to do the following:
    *** Make it possible to beat another 5 man team with 2 players.
    ^^^^^^^^^ That could be fun but then you have a serious problem with 5 vs 5 actual people actually playing and trying to win. One guy dies and wipes out the other team with his randomized ability?!! Then the game comes down to rolling a d20 and the highest roll wins. Its not skill, its not teamwork, its a random number. That is not good for pvp (it may be fun, but long term, that is not something hardcore pvp players would appreciate).

    Punishment works. Deleting glory for not actually playing the game works because botting no longer nets a profit. Any solution that nets even a small profit will be used by gold sellers and bot farmers. You could argue that a 0 rewards approach also would work as well, if you could assure us that bots could not work around such to "seem" active enough to earn a small reward. With my punishment method, if the bots fail to seem active one game in 3, they still zero sum --- highly attractive if the detection of "bots" is forgiving to avoid false positives and allows the bots to slip through sometimes.
  • kevinf08
    kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    Yes, PvP is fun when it's competitive. Or at least 5 legit players fighting another 5 legit players. How many of these games have you had recently, by the way?

    Pretty much 100% of my recent PVP games have been with no leavers/afkers/bots on my team. Then again I have been playing the overpowered rogue alot lately and my team very rarely loses, so that could be why people aren't leaving/afking.

    Either way my own experiences are just a drop in the ocean and really don't shed any light on if there is a problem wtih leavers/afkers/bots.

    I did see an absurd amount of bots while leveling my CW and TR thoough. I would say the majority of pvp participants were bots when I was leveling those toons. XP nerf is really what was needed imo.
  • blindsyn1
    blindsyn1 Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    So, you're going to decrease glory gain for losing team huh?

    You do realize what will happen as a result of this, right?

    People will leave matches once it's obvious they will not win. If you guys are annoyed at all these 3v5 games now, just wait until there's literally no reason to stay in a game that you're losing. Every game will end up as a 1v5.

    Right now, the situation isn't perfect but at least there's a silver lining. Yeah getting stuck in a match with one bot running around in circles and one person disconnected sucks, but at least once you inevitably get face-rolled and lose, you still get something worthwhile for your efforts. Take that away, and why shouldn't you just leave and try to find another game with a more balanced team?

    Why wouldn't you leave?

    is this the kind of people that plays DnD?
    the whiny *****es that cry all day long, and that at the first sign that their team isnt going to win, leaves the game <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 4 other players, and repeating the process <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> even more players in other matches untill they land on a team that can carry them?

    "You do realize what will happen as a result of this, right?" you ask.... yeah maybe people will learn to play their class, and maybe they will learn that they have to play as a TEAM to win, that they cant just run around the map and still get goodies, that they have to try to win and learn how to actually fight and cap objectives instead of being semi-afk if they want to actually get rewarded..

    there should be a 10 or 15 minutes "deserter"debuff when you leave a match( and a pve dungeon but thats another topic), like some sucessfull games out there have these days, this way the 5 man team will have to try to win, instead of not giving a **** and just loose and still getting goodies for it... they are not taking away everything from you... they are just reducing the reward..
    yeah and i know that bots suck, but ive seen bots killing players and capping objectives while QQers like you stay on the base crying because you have to put an effort on killing someone and ive seen some that just stand on his horse and run the map... they should fix that, but the "deserter" debuff is needed
  • nornsavant
    nornsavant Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    noroblad wrote: »
    That means your idea has to do the following:
    *** Make it possible to beat another 5 man team with 2 players.
    ^^^^^^^^^ That could be fun but then you have a serious problem with 5 vs 5 actual people actually playing and trying to win. One guy dies and wipes out the other team with his randomized ability?!! Then the game comes down to rolling a d20 and the highest roll wins. Its not skill, its not teamwork, its a random number. That is not good for pvp (it may be fun, but long term, that is not something hardcore pvp players would appreciate).
    Newp, my ideas do not address the issue of bots. They address the issue of being able to see the lay of the land and instantly understand your chances are bad and there is nothing you can do about it then leaving.

    The goal is to add enough twists that one can not be certain that defeat is imminent from the onset. And just like in FPS games that offer the same sort of perks, no single thing is capable of routing the opposing team. Each just offers something to which the opposing team must react. It gives you a temporary advantage that evaporates quickly. But the other team is just as likely to get that same advantage or another one. The net result is a swiftly shifting battlefield experience that is both fast paced and interesting.

    Certainly the devs would put some brain power into how these effects might fit well into the game mechanics.

    If you want a solution to botting, that is another kettle entirely. But Bots don’t leave matches. And why would they care if there was less exp for losing? They did nothing to gain exp before they can do nothing for a little longer to gain it now.

    Actually awarding negative glory could work but that would punish everyone except the really hardcore or premades as well. Bad for business. Exclusive rather than inclusive.

    I cant speak to how to spot or stop botting but there are games that have worked to make PVP fun and interesting.

    If you can’t innovate, emulate.
  • neyph69
    neyph69 Banned Users Posts: 150 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    So, you're going to decrease glory gain for losing team huh?

    You do realize what will happen as a result of this, right?

    People will leave matches once it's obvious they will not win. If you guys are annoyed at all these 3v5 games now, just wait until there's literally no reason to stay in a game that you're losing. Every game will end up as a 1v5.

    Right now, the situation isn't perfect but at least there's a silver lining. Yeah getting stuck in a match with one bot running around in circles and one person disconnected sucks, but at least once you inevitably get face-rolled and lose, you still get something worthwhile for your efforts. Take that away, and why shouldn't you just leave and try to find another game with a more balanced team?

    Why wouldn't you leave?

    You sound like you've afk'ed a few matches yourself there buddy. As the admin said, your mentality is why they put in the leaver penelty. I've seen you post in every thread abut the upcoming changes and have negative input on everything. Please just leave the community if you have such a problem with the changes they are making, which btw, the majority of the community begged and pleaded for.
  • syberghost
    syberghost Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,474
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    If you're losing because half your team is afk/bots, then not only are you having no fun but apparently you don't deserve anything for your trouble and if you even think of leaving you should be punished. And after three or so games of this treatment, you actually think anyone is going to stick around?

    See, when your argument that getting LESS wasn't getting any traction, you changed it to the assertion they're removing all rewards for the losing side completely, in the hopes you'd get some sympathy support posts from people not familiar with the patch.

    But that's not true.

    You are now officially losing at this forum PvP match. You should ragequit this thread now.