You sure scrwed pvp with this upcoming patch....GWF is too way OP now...gg and bye bye
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wildswannMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'd like to see broken abilities fixed before starting the never ending nerfs/buffs designed primarily with PvP in mind. I'd also like to be able to get a non-climbing round walls and dropping through floors dungeon group. If fixing the poorly formed environment is too difficult remove the trash or make every piece of trash skipped arrive at the end boss lol... now that.... might be fun
I really only have one complaint.
I spent a bunch of zen purchasing respec tokens to in order to give myself the right skills and feats to help me to survive and sometimes even win a few pvp matches.
Now you
GWF:
There definitely needs to be a target cap raise on the melee guys AOE's. Either a raised fixed cap, or some kind of damage falloff (like 5%/target hit?) per target beyond the first 5. For a class who swings a gigantic sword it seems a little crazy it can only hit 5 mobs even if there are 10 packed right infront of you.
Looks like you did a 20% damage buff and 20% lower cooldowns across the board for the GWF skills, I personally didnt feel it was their damage (well it was a little) or cooldowns that was the main issue, it was the overall lack of utility. Come&Get It sounds awesome on paper, but in practice it's more like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> than anything with some suction power.. A radius + intensity buff (with the intensity diminishing nearer the outer edges of the radius) is what that skill needed imo.
Some skills like restoring strike for example felt like they were at the point where a bit of damage value tweaking and cooldown tweaking were more than enough, but others simply don't perform like you'd expect from the paper version
Giving us a bit of tHP when popping unstoppable is pretty awesome, something more for the sentinels but every gwf will feel a little benefit from it no doubt.
Guardian Fighter:
I feel like a GFs cleave should receive the same treatment as a GWFs WMS/WS/RS with a raised target cap too, admittedly the range would be smaller since their sword swings in a smaller arc with lower reach, but they should be able to hit everything infront of them with their primary AOE attack.
If their threat generation now works properly, ie; they can actually peel and hold aggro then the class instantly went up to being the most valuable in a dungeon party, especially with the astral stacking removed.
Control Wizard:
Your change to make the Steal Time MS buff not stack is huge, so many times sprinting whilst a wiz pops it would cause very undesirable teleportation.
Ray nerf doesn't seem too big of a deal, it's still going to be amazing on bosses
Divine Cleric:
DC's threat generation being vastly reduced is huge, and one of the most needed things. Had you guys not addressed it, launching the game live with something like that would've been a nail in the coffin.
Astral no longer stacking is nice, people are fussing too much over it imo. If a GFs threat generation works properly now 1 astral is more than enough, because 2 was primarily used to make the DCs able to survive the onslaught of mobs.
Trickster Rogue:
TR looks to have gotten hit the hardest out of everyone, but I don't think theyre classbreaking changes by far. Slashing shocking execution by that much is pretty big, but it'll still fill its role of being an execution and method of proccing certain buffs. Bleeds ticking slower seems like itll lower overall dps, can't see multiple rogues bleeds being much of a difference since all the dungeons are optimal for 1 rogue.
General:
Kallos Tam being fixed is a nice convenience thing, as is correcting Blackdaggers health bar
Mad Dragon got nerfed in normal and buffed in Epic, pretty warranted all-round. A level 34 dungeon that was harder than almost any other was a little crazy. Erinyes are much more of an issue than a shocktroop for those wondering why I said it's a buff.
Gray Wolf Den: Didn't think this warranted a nerf, actually felt challenging and rewarding. I can understand that people were having issues with her high damage but the fight itself was much less intensive than most.
Frozen Heart: No more super reflective ice? i'm sold.
Hottenow: Volcano is now properly navigatable.. this is nice for convenience
Dread Vault: Didn't think Yalghoor was too big of an issue with the adds, but I can see why others would
Queue System: Allowing people to be replaced is great, need rolling only being avaliable if you actually can use the item is huge.
Dragons: Lower health? didn't seem that high to me
A bunch of stuff I didn;t comment on, because I either didn't know the implications of it or simply felt like it was a good but not noteworthy thing.
tl;dr Raise melee AoE caps, even if it has some damage falloff past 5 targets.
After 25 pages of feedback I've come to the following conclusions:
CW was overpowered now they got nerfed. CW was broken and now they get OP powers.
GWF was overpowered now they got nerfed. GWF was broken and now they get OP powers.
TR was overpowered now they got nerfed. TR was broken and now they get OP powers.
DC was overpowered now they got nerfed. DC was broken and now they get OP powers.
GF was overpowered now they got nerfed. GF was broken and now they get OP powers.
All the while nobody got to play with these new settings yet.
But my 2cents on the TR (which I play), 60% base damage reduction on Shocking Execution may be a bit steep, but it needed a reduction in base damage. Perhaps after this it will need a boost in damage based on missing health.
It looks like they focused on stacking problems, but forgot about the Tene runes stacking issue, meaning people will likely still be getting melted in seconds.
And I'm really unsure of the PvE-PvP matchup where the losers get to play around in a lower tier dungeon. I think people won't like being put in kinderdungeon as punishment for their loss.
"Shocking Execution: The base damage of this power has been reduced by 60%."
It is understandable to reduce the base damage of shocking execution cus it is not meant to 1 shot ppl in pvp from 100% HP to dead. But i would say it should have been balanced rather than nerfed. By balancing i mean, reduce the base damage but increase the multiplier on the amount of HP lost. That means increase the multiplier on the damage increase due the reduced HP on the target, so it will not be a 1 shot, it will be what its name suggest SHOCKING EXECUTION!!! If a rouge is fool enough to use it on target with 100% HP that skill does less damage than a AT-Will, but on a target with 30% HP, it will execute it right-away.
Another thing i wanna add is that there should be something done to the Daily, Bloodbath. Most player stop using it in later game due to the way it works. The rouge jumps to random targets with random hits that deal insignificant damage. I am putting up some suggestions to improve it in later times.
1. Allow something like target painting, where the player can select the targets he wants to jump(Switch Target) on. It perfectly makes sense, a rouge will plan and select his pray b4 going for it not just mindlessly jump(Switch Target) here and there.
OR
2. Increase the amount of damage dealt on every jump(Switch Target). Well, on single target increasing the damage will make it an over powered skill for pvp but instead increasing the damage on every jump will make it an interesting skill. Maybe after 4th jump(Switch Target) it can even kill a player with 100% HP, but none, not even the rouge himself will know who will be the victim This skill will then may find its use for harassment creation in group PvP and a decent AOE attack for dungeons crawling. For single target, i would actually suggest to reduce the damage a bit. So, the base damage should be reduced but the damage should increase significantly on every jump(Switch Target). This can be implemented as a buff stack or just plain increase in damage on hits.
Although this sounds like a good idea on paper, the execution of in game would be sht as s/he will be standing still while he picks the path or freeze everyone in the world while s/he picks his path... though what would be a good idea, is make it so the TR just jumps between 2 targets (the one s/he was looking at, and a random one), and after one dies, it is switched for another one... however that being said, I think the whole idea behind this is that is completely random, and is a risk for gaining a skill that makes you undamageable for X seconds while your skills recharge (at least that what I tend to use it for when I'm on low health and my stun is a few too many seconds of recharging).
The problem with the GWF, and with most of the class design, is that classes are not unique enough. Both due to design and due to broken mechanics. Hopefully new paragon paths will resolve some of this issue. But fundamentally speaking, each class needs to bring something unique to the table. Otherwise everybody is just fighting over two numbers: Damage and healing. There shouldn't be a dps competition with GWF and Rogue. GWF should be bringing something unique to the table aside from damage that makes you want to bring a GWF along instead of a second Rogue.
That's the fundamental flaw in the class design. There should be a desire to bring another, different class along for a unique benefit than a desire to bring along another of the same class. The party, especially in D&D, should have a nice spread of classes that all bring something unique to the table that helps the party as a whole.
Currently, Neverwinter's class design is very muddy in that regard. All that really matters is damage, healing and to a lesser extent control. Tanking, buffing and debuffing need to matter more and each class should have access to buffs or debuffs that other classes do not have. As long as you put similar abilities on two different classes, people will take the one that's "best". GWF should bring offensive group buffs / multi target debuffs to the table. Guardian should bring group defensive buffs. Rogue should bring single target debuffs.
Everyone should do something unique that benefits the party as a whole that another class cannot replicate. Otherwise there will always be this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> measuring content over which class is the "best" to bring into a dungeon for what role.
I believe this is 1/2 1/2, I believe that GWF could be the major DPS in a party (in till the boss fight) however this probably wont ever be possible with the current way mobs spread out as GWF will never be able to hit more enough without being the one tanking (which if they can tank, then there damage wont be enough).
and I must admit, whenever I see a GWF in PVP I just laugh as they have no PVP skill that I have found so far.
Did I miss the note that stated all the abandoned companions at jump points and log out havens would be following their masters and no longer clogging up Protector's Enclave??
They look so sad standing there for days and days awaiting the return of their masters.
Exactly why I hate the loot changes.
Here is an example of why this blows and is a stupid idea.
Ancient weapon drop values from Castle Never:
DC drop value 3 million AD
CW drop value 2.5 million AD
GWF drop value 1.25 million AD
GF drop value .5 million AD
TR drop 2.75 million AD
So thanks a lot devs.....as a GF I now have no chance at a valuable item while rogues, clerics, and wizards get their valuable stuff with no competition. What a slap in the face.
Very true point... and also this will make getting my armor for my alts near impossible... what I would like to see instead is ether the things you 'need' become bound on pick up, so there no point in needing if you have better as you will only be able to sell for gold, instead of AD (someone ales idea, not mine, not sure who's though so can't give credit to them sorry).
or to have the dice roll modifiers, like +10 to the result if the item is in the same class, +20 if the item is better than any armor you have ever worn (so that people can't ware <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> armor during DD to get the score boost), ect.
DEVS: please try something in the test shard for us GWFs... it is very very easy to implement, and would probably take like 1 minute to alter the code:
Remove the target cap of 5 from the GWFs attacks. Make it like 10 or 12 instead. We don't need a huge damage buff to do more AoE (which is supposed to be our job), we need to be able to hit more enemies at once. Please note that this tiny tweak will have absolutely no effect on PVP, which appears to be the main priority right now.
Just do it. Let us try it out for you and let's see what happens.
Other GWFs: please help me out here. The more times the guys see this sentiment repeated in this thread = better chance of making us relevant in dungeons again. Thank you.
I didn't even know this was a thing (havn't played GWF)... Make it happen, worth a test... and also make it apply for GF
Just heard that Astral Shield duration has been nerfed to 66% of the original duration. This is a HUGE, HUGE nerf. Considering how critically important Astral Shield is to the cleric's ability to heal, this is a tremendous blow to the class.
I'm truly not exaggerating when I say that drastically cutting the uptime on Astral Shield is likely game-breaking. Cleric is my main, and I've been running T2 dungeons since the night of launch. There is no other power which comes close to the importance of Astral Shield for us, and this nerf just about spells doom for the class.
My thoughts so far:
2. Cleanse not removing the recently died debuff sucks. The recently died debuff is already inconvenient in dungeons.
3. Nerf on Shocking Execution is beyond ridiculous. 60%, really? That's totally overkill. That is the daily you have to wait until almost max level to acquire. It should be the strongest daily. In hard boss fights it helps the entire team to have the TR dealing a good sized shot of damage every so often. I could see 25% maybe. 60% is total nerf into the ground. C'mon guys, let's balance not destroy.
4. Threat from healing spread across enemies. Not sure about this one. Will it decrease aggro on clerics enough? Right now the amount of aggro clerics pull is completely ridiculous. Not sure if this alone is going to fix that.
5. Queue refilling with one of the same class? Why in the WORLD would you make it work like that? PLEASE RETHINK THIS. If you are kicking the last person in to the party to try and get a DC this means you will just keep getting the same class making the entire party a fail and forcing the whole party to requeue. If it is Dungeon Delves and you just waited 45 minutes to get in that is completely unfair.
Other than that, everything else is looking fairly promising. I am so thrilled about the NEED gray out. One less thing to cause animosity in dungeons. Yay!
2. Wasn't meant to be that way to start of with, so they are just removing what they didn't mean to included.
3. +1.
4. GF now have Aggro increased, so aggro gained will prob result in GF>DC>GWF>TR>CW.
GWFs were already excellent, but played by incompetent players. Now they are clearly OP and will rule in pvp with devastating permastun builds that do a ****ton of dps. Really...
I kinda hoped for Bastion of Health cooldown reduction, by around 40-50% so it could be useful.
The other things are awesome, very well done on the listening to feedback department.
Now all you have to do is hire more community managers to better communicate on the forums, and some customer support ppl. to speed up processing tickets.
Thanks for all your work, I enjoy the game very much right now and you're making it even better!
Tons of great changes.Also a bunch of not so great changes. I am not a fan of nerfs in a PVE setting. Hope the dev team doesn't continue to nerf this game out of existence. PVP and PVE are two entirely different creatures and some of the nerfs are obviously because of PVP stuff.I don't do PVP at all and honestly have no intentions to ever try it and I know I am not alone in this.The CW nerf most likely will just make my game less enjoyable.Only speculating from what I am reading and how I picture it playing out.Time will tell.
+1 this, PVP really has no place in D&D class balancing, each class is a specialist. The striker does bucket-loads of damage, but in pvp that is nerfbat fodder, the controller does very solid damage in AOE, but again, that is nerf food in PVP. Honestly since PVP seems to be something MMO's just can't get away from, they should all seriously consider balancing the two entirely separately, and having powers, feats abilities etc work one way for PVP and another for PVE, that way changes to one don't screw up the other.
+1 this, PVP really has no place in D&D class balancing, each class is a specialist. The striker does bucket-loads of damage, but in pvp that is nerfbat fodder, the controller does very solid damage in AOE, but again, that is nerf food in PVP. Honestly since PVP seems to be something MMO's just can't get away from, they should all seriously consider balancing the two entirely separately, and having powers, feats abilities etc work one way for PVP and another for PVE, that way changes to one don't screw up the other.
While I agree with you in theory, I haven't agreed with this sentiment in practice for a long while now. I've heard too many candid interviews with devs and producers, including post mortem. How long can twice the work be supported? In the beginning when the publisher is dumping money on the team, it puts stars in everyone's eyes. In the following years, the team will shrink but look, they still have these two systems to support and gee, only so many developers and so much money. Unless it's a hardcore sandbox MMO, they're going to sacrifice PvP every time where it's a separate, high maintenance system. It just doesn't work in a situation where you've got limited resources, which describes probably any dev team in the world outside WoW's.
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[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
Respectfully this is my view.
I don't talk in forums...cos simply, i don't like to talk much. My ability to even start a new thread is not even there. And i don't really care.
However. I feel strongly enough about this to post.
The pvp exp nerf.
This is not entirely fair.
Same as how i respect the ppl who like to quest, please respect my opinion.
While i acknowledge the rest of the changes are fair and needed. Why is the exp ner on pvp needed?
I for one, and there are many others, don't really enjoy having to run around for hours doing dungeouns and quests, we simply are not interested. Is it wrong?
If so, why is it wrong?
So far your system is very fair. It gives the roleplayers and fans etc etc, a chance to level via quests, and d&D stuff...whatever they call it.
And it gives the pvp fans the ability to level up also, having our fun fighting.
What was wrong about this system that u felt the need to change?
You now are implementing stuff soon that will make sure ppl actively take part in pvp should they wish to pvp.....Sigh, they will write scripts to auto attack, some already have....but nevertheless...you are trying to combat it. Fine. This is fair.
But why the exp nerf to genuine pvp fans?
I'm so sorry to state my opinion....but to me and many others...your quests are boring and long. Bad rewards. (except the 2 free bags, which is what alot of ppl only do)
Why are u forcing it down our throats?
We do not want to quest, we have no interest in the long winded travelling around the world storyline.....we just want to fight and have fun in our own terms.
Please rethink your decision and do not dictate to us what we see as fun and what is not.
Another side note, incase your staff didn't think of it. if we like to lvl purely on pvp, where do we get gear/ How do we get it? We don't quest, so no drops...how? Simple...we BUY IT. Money for you.
Thats all i have to say.
Before i sign off....again let me say, the rest of your changes are good and bravo to you. Thank you.
No need for quotes anymore. Lost City's eyes are wide open now. Thank god!b:victory
Some great changes all-round to the game...bravo for that.
Not so thrilled with the class 'balancing'.
As someone who loves being a CW you're going to nerf my playing style into oblivion. Thing is, I don't even do PvP, I'm a PvE lover who relies heavily on Steal Time and ROE when both soloing and doing my part in groups. They're both now seriously weakened, ROE especially, to the point where it's probably not worth having. I mean I could live with the damage being reduced or the buff being reduced but no, both have been nerfed...with another nerf on top of that?!? Is this from PvP feedback 'cause it's sure not OP in PvE, it simply gives me a power that make me useful in groups. Along with....
Steal time...that now won't stack and so will last less long. *sigh* It was my main CC...I mean, I'm a CW right? My usefulness to groups is seriously hindered there also. But hey ho...maybe I can go for one of those powers that was previously useless instead ya? Maybe they've been brought some up a bit to compensate? Er no...it's just the nerf hammer all round to my class.
I do hate to moan but this is really disappointing...I play for fun, not to win and it looks like my fun will be lessened by this. I've no problem with boosting GFs and GWF's but you've went too far with nerfing CW's.
Very glad to see the changes coming in. Many of them badly needed.
Comments and concerns from the CW side of the street:
Excellent news on fixing the issue with chill stacks; frost builds become viable.
Good call on Chilling cloud change. Possibly need a slight increase in its aoe range on 3rd strike. Right now mobs need to be nose to nose for it to apply
Nice little buff to prestidigitation
Concerns:
Conduit of Ice, Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Sudden Storm SP - damage calculated as dots: dafuq does that mean??? Please try not to throw out statements which muddle things up instead of clarifying them.
Ray of Enfeeblement nerf - acceptable in PvP but it might be too heavy in PvE. Will be heavily dependent on actual numbers. It might loose (and heavily) to thaumaturge specced Conduit of Ice with Chilling Presence passive.
No word on Sudden Storm not critting and hitting at ca. 80% of its stated damage - very bad, such a cool skill for pve. Reports from the test server stating it is STILL not critting (making the skill pretty **** useless... which is stupid considering that apart from 2 passives it's the ONLY semi-viable signature power from the only paragon path available thus far....)
No word on reported issues of AoE feats not working properly/at all with powers (also whether Conduit's AoE effect is actually counted as AoE and thus should benefit from the feat)
All in all, pleased to see the changes coming in (whether I personally consider them good or bad is subjective, what's important is that they are coming. Keep the work up and keep introducing changes and listening to your player base.
I am completely thrilled. More-so, because they have such intricate and sweeping changes for each class. I play a DC. The changes for the most part all look necessary. 2x AS was a bit cheesy. Now the other changes for DC will have to be actually examined before I can say if they are good or bad. I'm anticipating the threat fix to work wonders. Attack the GF, attack the CW, attack the TR and GWF; that can be healed as intended. As long as I'm tanking less and able to attack and focus more on class mechanics I doubt the decrese in DP gen will make a ton of difference. As it is now I don't really have an issue with DP gen unless I am literally just kiting and unable to attack to build it. When I can attack it's a non-issue; which I'm sure wasn't entirely intended. Im very excited that I may get to play and tweak my feats a bit more. Cookie-cutter builds depress me. MORE OPTIONS! I will take it good sir. Thanks for the essay. I relished every bit of it
Conduit of Ice, Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Sudden Storm SP - damage calculated as dots: dafuq does that mean??? Please try not to throw out statements which muddle things up instead of clarifying them.
DOT=Damage Over Time, i.e. instead of calculating it as 500 damage it'll calculate it as 50 damage every second for 10 seconds.
[*] Ray of Enfeeblement nerf - acceptable in PvP but it might be too heavy in PvE. Will be heavily dependent on actual numbers. It might loose (and heavily) to thaumaturge specced Conduit of Ice with Chilling Presence passive.
They should have just tapered the initial damage down and , as you channel, had it bump up to a more *oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I'm being hit by that* level as it goes along. Seems like they just nerffed it to address high damage. I think the high damage on demand needed to be addressed but not the overall damage. That seemed ok to me. I'm not in IT or anything so I'm probably just throwing random suggestion out there at this point. You know; the more you channel the more enfeebling it becomes.
Pvp only exists when there is competition and generally speaking only has long-term enjoyment if there is a ranking system. Some people will try and top it, most will just and get as far up as we can go.
However at the moment damage from high-end gear is out of hand, having 1.8k def (i.e. 25% damage reduction) and still getting crit by a CW (yes you read that right, CONTROL WIZARD) for over 20k is ridiculous. The double AS nerf coming in is laughable when rogues can take you down from 100% health to dead while you are standing on a double-AS AND HG.
In short, there is no competitive structure nor is there a chance for true skill to shine so basically pvp in NWN serves only two reasons
1) Leveling (which is getting nerfed by the reduction in loss rewards)
2) Quick gearing for end game (hence bots, afkers, etc)
If your team is trying but are totally out geared by the other team (this happens a lot in Level 60 matches), you will suffer. They need to change ques at 60 by gear score Regular, t1, t2 - make them separate ques so that your are only able to face an equal scored team.
GWFs were already excellent, but played by incompetent players. Now they are clearly OP and will rule in pvp with devastating permastun builds that do a ****ton of dps. Really...
This is the real problem. Crybabies....
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matii1509Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
However at the moment damage from high-end gear is out of hand, having 1.8k def (i.e. 25% damage reduction) and still getting crit by a CW (yes you read that right, CONTROL WIZARD) for over 20k is ridiculous. The double AS nerf coming in is laughable when rogues can take you down from 100% health to dead while you are standing on a double-AS AND HG.
I'm Cleric with 2500k def (35%dmg reduction) with foresight (11%) and astral shield (40%) and some rogues could kill me with 1 shot (daily - dmg around 26k-30k) in PVP. Now it'll be impossible to do that because that skill will be nerfed.
Guys, I am rogue and I am glad to see shocking execution nerfed. That skill is the "easy mode" of rogues. You can do INSANE damage using lurker assault instead, but it requieres more skill from the player. As I said, I am a rogue and I LOVE this change (rogues spam shocking execution while I haven't used in weeks)
Hi there!
I'm in the new shard. What I have to expect from it? I mean, what I do in the new shard can be transfer in the old? Or can I decide to go on with the new shard PCS instead of the old ones? Please give me some more news.
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matii1509Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hi there!
I'm in the new shard. What I have to expect from it? I mean, what I do in the new shard can be transfer in the old? Or can I decide to go on with the new shard PCS instead of the old ones? Please give me some more news.
New shard? You mean Preview? It's test server. What you do there have only effect there.
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited June 2013
Mmo devs never learn: once you start mixing pve and pvp balance you go down a slippery slope and will please no one. Skills need separate pvp and pve stats/effects. A daily like Shocking Execution will be annoying in pvp, but in pve it barely matters on a Tier 2 dungeon mob, with a 60% damage nerf this daily will now be useless in pve (like so many other skills among all classes).
Astral Shield is a must-have for most tier 2 dungeons. It will be fun to watch how add-heavy bosses will now tear up a party during AS's downtime. How will this be balanced ? Do you expect a GF - with the new aggro mechanic - to hold out against the add hordes and not die in 3 seconds ? Especially with other heals like Bastion of Health (DC's joke skill) and Word of Healing being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...
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silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
Hi there!
I'm in the new shard. What I have to expect from it? I mean, what I do in the new shard can be transfer in the old? Or can I decide to go on with the new shard PCS instead of the old ones? Please give me some more news.
Kep in mind that a test shard will experience frequent wipes. You can certainly play on that shard as your primary server, but just be aware that your characters will be wiped from time to time.
Comments
I spent a bunch of zen purchasing respec tokens to in order to give myself the right skills and feats to help me to survive and sometimes even win a few pvp matches.
Now you
There definitely needs to be a target cap raise on the melee guys AOE's. Either a raised fixed cap, or some kind of damage falloff (like 5%/target hit?) per target beyond the first 5. For a class who swings a gigantic sword it seems a little crazy it can only hit 5 mobs even if there are 10 packed right infront of you.
Looks like you did a 20% damage buff and 20% lower cooldowns across the board for the GWF skills, I personally didnt feel it was their damage (well it was a little) or cooldowns that was the main issue, it was the overall lack of utility. Come&Get It sounds awesome on paper, but in practice it's more like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> than anything with some suction power.. A radius + intensity buff (with the intensity diminishing nearer the outer edges of the radius) is what that skill needed imo.
Some skills like restoring strike for example felt like they were at the point where a bit of damage value tweaking and cooldown tweaking were more than enough, but others simply don't perform like you'd expect from the paper version
Giving us a bit of tHP when popping unstoppable is pretty awesome, something more for the sentinels but every gwf will feel a little benefit from it no doubt.
Guardian Fighter:
I feel like a GFs cleave should receive the same treatment as a GWFs WMS/WS/RS with a raised target cap too, admittedly the range would be smaller since their sword swings in a smaller arc with lower reach, but they should be able to hit everything infront of them with their primary AOE attack.
If their threat generation now works properly, ie; they can actually peel and hold aggro then the class instantly went up to being the most valuable in a dungeon party, especially with the astral stacking removed.
Control Wizard:
Your change to make the Steal Time MS buff not stack is huge, so many times sprinting whilst a wiz pops it would cause very undesirable teleportation.
Ray nerf doesn't seem too big of a deal, it's still going to be amazing on bosses
Divine Cleric:
DC's threat generation being vastly reduced is huge, and one of the most needed things. Had you guys not addressed it, launching the game live with something like that would've been a nail in the coffin.
Astral no longer stacking is nice, people are fussing too much over it imo. If a GFs threat generation works properly now 1 astral is more than enough, because 2 was primarily used to make the DCs able to survive the onslaught of mobs.
Trickster Rogue:
TR looks to have gotten hit the hardest out of everyone, but I don't think theyre classbreaking changes by far. Slashing shocking execution by that much is pretty big, but it'll still fill its role of being an execution and method of proccing certain buffs. Bleeds ticking slower seems like itll lower overall dps, can't see multiple rogues bleeds being much of a difference since all the dungeons are optimal for 1 rogue.
General:
Kallos Tam being fixed is a nice convenience thing, as is correcting Blackdaggers health bar
Mad Dragon got nerfed in normal and buffed in Epic, pretty warranted all-round. A level 34 dungeon that was harder than almost any other was a little crazy. Erinyes are much more of an issue than a shocktroop for those wondering why I said it's a buff.
Gray Wolf Den: Didn't think this warranted a nerf, actually felt challenging and rewarding. I can understand that people were having issues with her high damage but the fight itself was much less intensive than most.
Frozen Heart: No more super reflective ice? i'm sold.
Hottenow: Volcano is now properly navigatable.. this is nice for convenience
Dread Vault: Didn't think Yalghoor was too big of an issue with the adds, but I can see why others would
Queue System: Allowing people to be replaced is great, need rolling only being avaliable if you actually can use the item is huge.
Dragons: Lower health? didn't seem that high to me
A bunch of stuff I didn;t comment on, because I either didn't know the implications of it or simply felt like it was a good but not noteworthy thing.
tl;dr Raise melee AoE caps, even if it has some damage falloff past 5 targets.
CW was overpowered now they got nerfed. CW was broken and now they get OP powers.
GWF was overpowered now they got nerfed. GWF was broken and now they get OP powers.
TR was overpowered now they got nerfed. TR was broken and now they get OP powers.
DC was overpowered now they got nerfed. DC was broken and now they get OP powers.
GF was overpowered now they got nerfed. GF was broken and now they get OP powers.
All the while nobody got to play with these new settings yet.
But my 2cents on the TR (which I play), 60% base damage reduction on Shocking Execution may be a bit steep, but it needed a reduction in base damage. Perhaps after this it will need a boost in damage based on missing health.
It looks like they focused on stacking problems, but forgot about the Tene runes stacking issue, meaning people will likely still be getting melted in seconds.
And I'm really unsure of the PvE-PvP matchup where the losers get to play around in a lower tier dungeon. I think people won't like being put in kinderdungeon as punishment for their loss.
Although this sounds like a good idea on paper, the execution of in game would be sht as s/he will be standing still while he picks the path or freeze everyone in the world while s/he picks his path... though what would be a good idea, is make it so the TR just jumps between 2 targets (the one s/he was looking at, and a random one), and after one dies, it is switched for another one... however that being said, I think the whole idea behind this is that is completely random, and is a risk for gaining a skill that makes you undamageable for X seconds while your skills recharge (at least that what I tend to use it for when I'm on low health and my stun is a few too many seconds of recharging).
I believe this is 1/2 1/2, I believe that GWF could be the major DPS in a party (in till the boss fight) however this probably wont ever be possible with the current way mobs spread out as GWF will never be able to hit more enough without being the one tanking (which if they can tank, then there damage wont be enough).
and I must admit, whenever I see a GWF in PVP I just laugh as they have no PVP skill that I have found so far.
IKR, it's so sad =(
Very true point... and also this will make getting my armor for my alts near impossible... what I would like to see instead is ether the things you 'need' become bound on pick up, so there no point in needing if you have better as you will only be able to sell for gold, instead of AD (someone ales idea, not mine, not sure who's though so can't give credit to them sorry).
or to have the dice roll modifiers, like +10 to the result if the item is in the same class, +20 if the item is better than any armor you have ever worn (so that people can't ware <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> armor during DD to get the score boost), ect.
I didn't even know this was a thing (havn't played GWF)... Make it happen, worth a test... and also make it apply for GF
I'm truly not exaggerating when I say that drastically cutting the uptime on Astral Shield is likely game-breaking. Cleric is my main, and I've been running T2 dungeons since the night of launch. There is no other power which comes close to the importance of Astral Shield for us, and this nerf just about spells doom for the class.
2. Wasn't meant to be that way to start of with, so they are just removing what they didn't mean to included.
3. +1.
4. GF now have Aggro increased, so aggro gained will prob result in GF>DC>GWF>TR>CW.
5.+1
The other things are awesome, very well done on the listening to feedback department.
Now all you have to do is hire more community managers to better communicate on the forums, and some customer support ppl. to speed up processing tickets.
Thanks for all your work, I enjoy the game very much right now and you're making it even better!
There's some of my feedback on the update.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
+1 this, PVP really has no place in D&D class balancing, each class is a specialist. The striker does bucket-loads of damage, but in pvp that is nerfbat fodder, the controller does very solid damage in AOE, but again, that is nerf food in PVP. Honestly since PVP seems to be something MMO's just can't get away from, they should all seriously consider balancing the two entirely separately, and having powers, feats abilities etc work one way for PVP and another for PVE, that way changes to one don't screw up the other.
While I agree with you in theory, I haven't agreed with this sentiment in practice for a long while now. I've heard too many candid interviews with devs and producers, including post mortem. How long can twice the work be supported? In the beginning when the publisher is dumping money on the team, it puts stars in everyone's eyes. In the following years, the team will shrink but look, they still have these two systems to support and gee, only so many developers and so much money. Unless it's a hardcore sandbox MMO, they're going to sacrifice PvP every time where it's a separate, high maintenance system. It just doesn't work in a situation where you've got limited resources, which describes probably any dev team in the world outside WoW's.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
Respectfully this is my view.
I don't talk in forums...cos simply, i don't like to talk much. My ability to even start a new thread is not even there. And i don't really care.
However. I feel strongly enough about this to post.
The pvp exp nerf.
This is not entirely fair.
Same as how i respect the ppl who like to quest, please respect my opinion.
While i acknowledge the rest of the changes are fair and needed. Why is the exp ner on pvp needed?
I for one, and there are many others, don't really enjoy having to run around for hours doing dungeouns and quests, we simply are not interested. Is it wrong?
If so, why is it wrong?
So far your system is very fair. It gives the roleplayers and fans etc etc, a chance to level via quests, and d&D stuff...whatever they call it.
And it gives the pvp fans the ability to level up also, having our fun fighting.
What was wrong about this system that u felt the need to change?
You now are implementing stuff soon that will make sure ppl actively take part in pvp should they wish to pvp.....Sigh, they will write scripts to auto attack, some already have....but nevertheless...you are trying to combat it. Fine. This is fair.
But why the exp nerf to genuine pvp fans?
I'm so sorry to state my opinion....but to me and many others...your quests are boring and long. Bad rewards. (except the 2 free bags, which is what alot of ppl only do)
Why are u forcing it down our throats?
We do not want to quest, we have no interest in the long winded travelling around the world storyline.....we just want to fight and have fun in our own terms.
Please rethink your decision and do not dictate to us what we see as fun and what is not.
Another side note, incase your staff didn't think of it. if we like to lvl purely on pvp, where do we get gear/ How do we get it? We don't quest, so no drops...how? Simple...we BUY IT. Money for you.
Thats all i have to say.
Before i sign off....again let me say, the rest of your changes are good and bravo to you. Thank you.
Please pass this bit of code along to the Champions Online janitor.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
Not so thrilled with the class 'balancing'.
As someone who loves being a CW you're going to nerf my playing style into oblivion. Thing is, I don't even do PvP, I'm a PvE lover who relies heavily on Steal Time and ROE when both soloing and doing my part in groups. They're both now seriously weakened, ROE especially, to the point where it's probably not worth having. I mean I could live with the damage being reduced or the buff being reduced but no, both have been nerfed...with another nerf on top of that?!? Is this from PvP feedback 'cause it's sure not OP in PvE, it simply gives me a power that make me useful in groups. Along with....
Steal time...that now won't stack and so will last less long. *sigh* It was my main CC...I mean, I'm a CW right? My usefulness to groups is seriously hindered there also. But hey ho...maybe I can go for one of those powers that was previously useless instead ya? Maybe they've been brought some up a bit to compensate? Er no...it's just the nerf hammer all round to my class.
I do hate to moan but this is really disappointing...I play for fun, not to win and it looks like my fun will be lessened by this. I've no problem with boosting GFs and GWF's but you've went too far with nerfing CW's.
Just my opinion.
Comments and concerns from the CW side of the street:
Concerns:
All in all, pleased to see the changes coming in (whether I personally consider them good or bad is subjective, what's important is that they are coming. Keep the work up and keep introducing changes and listening to your player base.
This game has potential. Do not waste it.
DOT=Damage Over Time, i.e. instead of calculating it as 500 damage it'll calculate it as 50 damage every second for 10 seconds.
They should have just tapered the initial damage down and , as you channel, had it bump up to a more *oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I'm being hit by that* level as it goes along. Seems like they just nerffed it to address high damage. I think the high damage on demand needed to be addressed but not the overall damage. That seemed ok to me. I'm not in IT or anything so I'm probably just throwing random suggestion out there at this point. You know; the more you channel the more enfeebling it becomes.
Pvp only exists when there is competition and generally speaking only has long-term enjoyment if there is a ranking system. Some people will try and top it, most will just and get as far up as we can go.
However at the moment damage from high-end gear is out of hand, having 1.8k def (i.e. 25% damage reduction) and still getting crit by a CW (yes you read that right, CONTROL WIZARD) for over 20k is ridiculous. The double AS nerf coming in is laughable when rogues can take you down from 100% health to dead while you are standing on a double-AS AND HG.
In short, there is no competitive structure nor is there a chance for true skill to shine so basically pvp in NWN serves only two reasons
1) Leveling (which is getting nerfed by the reduction in loss rewards)
2) Quick gearing for end game (hence bots, afkers, etc)
I'm in the new shard. What I have to expect from it? I mean, what I do in the new shard can be transfer in the old? Or can I decide to go on with the new shard PCS instead of the old ones? Please give me some more news.
New shard? You mean Preview? It's test server. What you do there have only effect there.
Astral Shield is a must-have for most tier 2 dungeons. It will be fun to watch how add-heavy bosses will now tear up a party during AS's downtime. How will this be balanced ? Do you expect a GF - with the new aggro mechanic - to hold out against the add hordes and not die in 3 seconds ? Especially with other heals like Bastion of Health (DC's joke skill) and Word of Healing being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...
Kep in mind that a test shard will experience frequent wipes. You can certainly play on that shard as your primary server, but just be aware that your characters will be wiped from time to time.
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