Games developers went from trying to make classic games, made for gamers, to creating a 'product' that was only about making profit. Ive watched and seen this happen in the last 15 years, since eq1.
Making games has been a big business since the early 1980s. Companies are not charity organizations, but for-profit institutions. I sometimes start falling into that trap where you think that things were so different "back then", but then I sit down and ask myself, "What did I play 25+ years ago?", and then I realize that little has changed, at least for the worse.
Playing the early MMOs online cost a fortune. Legends of Kesmai, even as late as 1996, cost $9,60 per HOUR, and the original Neverwinter in 1991 had an expensive hourly fee as well. People today think it's super expensive to pay $15 or a month or $60 for founder pack, but if someone had told me back then we would be able to play online for such minimal costs, I would never have believed it. I didn't even have free local calls, so on top of that I also paid 23 German pennies (would be about 20 US cents now, without inflation) per every 8 minutes.
Also, making games today is a lot more costly than in the 1980s and 1990s. Much, much more expensive due to the complexity and the art and the audio expectations. Back then, you only needed a relatively small team (the market was also smaller), and games stayed longer current and on the shelves. Still they cost more than they do today, and you'd rarely see patches or updates. If you did, you had to get them from an overseas BBS, CompuServe (paying per minute for it) or magazines that game with diskettes.
Gaming today is much cheaper, the variety much higher, and in spite of the more visible commercialization also overall much better.
And I would have no problem with it as long as they refund my money. Cash, not Zen.
After 6 months of play ou would not be entitled to a refund. You played the game mos likely to its entirety, it would be like taking back a console game after you played it all the way through, and expecting your money back cause you lost your save.
I would have no problem with a wipe, so long as the money I spent in game was returned to the new reset. That is fair.
Cool read so far keep it comming lot of interesting idee's.
Also let me state again, my initial post was a hypotethical (<- not sure if spelled correctly probably not) statement, and it was ment to see how the community would react to this statement if it occured (we are at the mercy of whatever cryptic decides at the end of the day?)
Cool to see a few would stay no mather what happened, like i would.
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Making games has been a big business since the early 1980s. Companies are not charity organizations, but for-profit institutions. I sometimes start falling into that trap where you think that things were so different "back then", but then I sit down and ask myself, "What did I play 25+ years ago?", and then I realize that little has changed, at least for the worse.
Playing the early MMOs online cost a fortune. Legends of Kesmai, even as late as 1996, cost $9,60 per HOUR, and the original Neverwinter in 1991 had an expensive hourly fee as well. People today think it's super expensive to pay $15 or a month or $60 for founder pack, but if someone had told me back then we would be able to play online for such minimal costs, I would never have believed it. I didn't even have free local calls, so on top of that I also paid 23 German pennies (would be about 20 US cents now, without inflation) per every 8 minutes.
Also, making games today is a lot more costly than in the 1980s and 1990s. Much, much more expensive due to the complexity and the art and the audio expectations. Back then, you only needed a relatively small team (the market was also smaller), and games stayed longer current and on the shelves. Still they cost more than they do today, and you'd rarely see patches or updates. If you did, you had to get them from an overseas BBS, CompuServe (paying per minute for it) or magazines that game with diskettes.
Gaming today is much cheaper, the variety much higher, and in spite of the more visible commercialization also overall much better.
Never got into paying for games until Lineage 2 was released. thought the fee was high LOL couldn't imagine playing it per hour :O
But I also heard servers are cheaper now days and operating them is a lot cheaper as well.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Choosing not to play some game anymore is an "overreaction"? I guess I've "overreacted" a lot seeing as nearly every game I've ever played, I no longer play.
At this point I'm starting to expect that in three years we'll have some deep dark exploit
(every game has one every once in a while) in which people will flood the forums with two comments:
"Wipe the game the economy is ruined."
"This was reported in Alpha (No evidence supporting the claim) and was never resolved."
What happens when it was reported in alpha but there is evidence supporting the claim, but it went live anyhow. Should we all be taking screenshots of our bug reports now? People did this beta work in good faith, but because they didnt document and log all of their reports, lack of evidence is just dismissed casually as lack of an issue. The in game economy always bounces back, but trying to act like absence of evidence = evidence of absence when challenges to claims are made, when there were posts on the boards about the same subject during that timeframe, is hilarious.
What happens when it was reported in alpha but there is evidence supporting the claim, but it went live anyhow.
What evidence is there other than unverified (unverifiable) claims that it was reported? People made up so much stuff over the past month that turned out to be just that: made up stuff. Photoshopped screenshots, claims of what the AD/Z exchange rate would be, claims of having 500 cats (none showed up), etc. All for the "lulz", all for the attention and the drama.
In light of that, I take any claims with a truckload of salt. What I have SEEN is that whenever an exploit surfaced, the dev team very quickly addressed it, removed the damage (at least so much that it had no impact) and banned exploiters. That is something I can see and verify. Claims as the ones that you mention are not evidence. They are hearsay and, well, unproven claims with nothing actually supporting them.
It's not Ambi, or anyone else, who has to disprove your claims. It's you who has to prove your claims.
And I would have no problem with it as long as they refund my money. Cash, not Zen.
Agreed, and I feel the exact same, I would want a full refund for all the ZEN I purchased as well as the money I have spent on guardian and founders packs.
It seems a lot of you who are crying don't know the difference between beta and official release. People oftentimes can't tell the difference nowadays when the company starts taking revenue for in-game content. But just because they have allowed access to the cash shop doesn't mean it's not open beta. It's still open beta, they just need the money otherwise the people working on Neverwinter essentially aren't getting paid.
But nah there's a lot of people stroking their ego pretending how smart they are and will argue till their faces are blue. If a wipe happens, it'll only happen in drastic cases which is very unlikely.
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delgatto42Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 135Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
Anybody here ever play Kingdom Of Loathing?
Numerous times, people have flooded their market with in game money, through exploits. At times this was done by a few players to try forcing a reset. It is widely believed that the game would have died had they reset, but the economy was tanked without a reset. The solution? Events that lead to money sinks, and the creation of one of the most successful money sinks in any game ever, the MMG. The game is still to this day alive, kicking, and doing well, 10 years after launch.
How can this be? Because they have taken the stance that they can fix the game without the need for rollbacks and wipes. They have been very successful thus far. So take a moment, and instead of playing the part of chicken little, why not take a moment and offer constructive advise that will actually fix the game. Wipes are a sure fire way of killing a game, and rollbacks are almost as bad for business.
An AD MMG that keeps 0.02% would really sink a ton of exploited funds out of the game.
When he gets to Heaven To Saint Peter he will say, "Hand me 4d6. Lets roll the dice and play!"
Tonight the Cryptic Forum Complainers will be presenting variations on a theme, followed by the stylings of the Buttthurt boyz rapping wipe da mo-fo nowz.
If they refunded me cash for my purchases, zen for the stuff I earned through peanutlabs offers and current AD, and a voucher for each level 60 toon I have that will let me create a new lvl 60 toon after the wipe, maybe I'd stick around. Would also really depend on that kind of thing NEVER ever being required again, and Cryptic using the data from this OB to really shine this game up to a pristine polish.
I think I would be torn if they wiped since they said no wipes. While I have wiped several toons and started over that was my choice being forced would feel like a slap in the face.
plus I agree with the ones that have said these doomsayers would call for wipes every time an exploit is found and what I love most about these exploits are the people saying it was reported over and over and they did nothing till it blew up and people posted how to do it. I find all those claims hard to believe because I know that people who are searching for the exploits aren't doing it to then be able to report them.
the ones that reports are ones who accidently stumble on them for instance I ran into an issue where I noticed two cleric pets up and nothing worked to desummon one until I logged out. when I logged in I reported it and then the next patch or two it was addressed.
Comments
Making games has been a big business since the early 1980s. Companies are not charity organizations, but for-profit institutions. I sometimes start falling into that trap where you think that things were so different "back then", but then I sit down and ask myself, "What did I play 25+ years ago?", and then I realize that little has changed, at least for the worse.
Playing the early MMOs online cost a fortune. Legends of Kesmai, even as late as 1996, cost $9,60 per HOUR, and the original Neverwinter in 1991 had an expensive hourly fee as well. People today think it's super expensive to pay $15 or a month or $60 for founder pack, but if someone had told me back then we would be able to play online for such minimal costs, I would never have believed it. I didn't even have free local calls, so on top of that I also paid 23 German pennies (would be about 20 US cents now, without inflation) per every 8 minutes.
Also, making games today is a lot more costly than in the 1980s and 1990s. Much, much more expensive due to the complexity and the art and the audio expectations. Back then, you only needed a relatively small team (the market was also smaller), and games stayed longer current and on the shelves. Still they cost more than they do today, and you'd rarely see patches or updates. If you did, you had to get them from an overseas BBS, CompuServe (paying per minute for it) or magazines that game with diskettes.
Gaming today is much cheaper, the variety much higher, and in spite of the more visible commercialization also overall much better.
I would have no problem with a wipe, so long as the money I spent in game was returned to the new reset. That is fair.
Also let me state again, my initial post was a hypotethical (<- not sure if spelled correctly probably not) statement, and it was ment to see how the community would react to this statement if it occured (we are at the mercy of whatever cryptic decides at the end of the day?)
Cool to see a few would stay no mather what happened, like i would.
The irony, it burns...
Never got into paying for games until Lineage 2 was released. thought the fee was high LOL couldn't imagine playing it per hour :O
But I also heard servers are cheaper now days and operating them is a lot cheaper as well.
Choosing not to play some game anymore is an "overreaction"? I guess I've "overreacted" a lot seeing as nearly every game I've ever played, I no longer play.
What happens when it was reported in alpha but there is evidence supporting the claim, but it went live anyhow. Should we all be taking screenshots of our bug reports now? People did this beta work in good faith, but because they didnt document and log all of their reports, lack of evidence is just dismissed casually as lack of an issue. The in game economy always bounces back, but trying to act like absence of evidence = evidence of absence when challenges to claims are made, when there were posts on the boards about the same subject during that timeframe, is hilarious.
What evidence is there other than unverified (unverifiable) claims that it was reported? People made up so much stuff over the past month that turned out to be just that: made up stuff. Photoshopped screenshots, claims of what the AD/Z exchange rate would be, claims of having 500 cats (none showed up), etc. All for the "lulz", all for the attention and the drama.
In light of that, I take any claims with a truckload of salt. What I have SEEN is that whenever an exploit surfaced, the dev team very quickly addressed it, removed the damage (at least so much that it had no impact) and banned exploiters. That is something I can see and verify. Claims as the ones that you mention are not evidence. They are hearsay and, well, unproven claims with nothing actually supporting them.
It's not Ambi, or anyone else, who has to disprove your claims. It's you who has to prove your claims.
Agreed, and I feel the exact same, I would want a full refund for all the ZEN I purchased as well as the money I have spent on guardian and founders packs.
Marzio
But nah there's a lot of people stroking their ego pretending how smart they are and will argue till their faces are blue. If a wipe happens, it'll only happen in drastic cases which is very unlikely.
Numerous times, people have flooded their market with in game money, through exploits. At times this was done by a few players to try forcing a reset. It is widely believed that the game would have died had they reset, but the economy was tanked without a reset. The solution? Events that lead to money sinks, and the creation of one of the most successful money sinks in any game ever, the MMG. The game is still to this day alive, kicking, and doing well, 10 years after launch.
How can this be? Because they have taken the stance that they can fix the game without the need for rollbacks and wipes. They have been very successful thus far. So take a moment, and instead of playing the part of chicken little, why not take a moment and offer constructive advise that will actually fix the game. Wipes are a sure fire way of killing a game, and rollbacks are almost as bad for business.
An AD MMG that keeps 0.02% would really sink a ton of exploited funds out of the game.
:rolleyes:
plus I agree with the ones that have said these doomsayers would call for wipes every time an exploit is found and what I love most about these exploits are the people saying it was reported over and over and they did nothing till it blew up and people posted how to do it. I find all those claims hard to believe because I know that people who are searching for the exploits aren't doing it to then be able to report them.
the ones that reports are ones who accidently stumble on them for instance I ran into an issue where I noticed two cleric pets up and nothing worked to desummon one until I logged out. when I logged in I reported it and then the next patch or two it was addressed.
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