test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Why gwf + cw should be top damage.

itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
So let me start of by saying, this is not a buff gwf/cw thread ore nerf TR threat.
I am just trying to make a logical point because of how the game is designed. So here i go :)

First of all its dungeons > dragons, what i mean by that is that there are a lot more trash mobs then there are bosses, so in that regard it should stand to reason that a CW/GWF would come out as top damage at the end of a dungeon just because there is more HP to shred for them.

The way i feel it, TR players have a unique roll to play, focus elites/bosses and be a supportive addition to the team in taking out key pawns of the mobs army. However i find it odd with all the trash in dungeons how a TR can out dps a same equiped GWF/CW, i feel this is sort of out of wack. I find it weird that a guy taking out an elite mob, wil do 5x the damage as a person killing 10 normal mobs in the same timeframe.

To the TR players reading this, i am just questioning the game logic here, not ure character ore its dps.

Also on the CW vs GWF note i would like to point something out. Like most are well aware CW's outshine GWF in any facet u look at them.

CW = more DPS, i find this odd considering they are ranged and doing pew pew opposed to wielding a 2h sword, going in melee range and decapitating limbs.
CW = more Control, obviuesly this should be left unatented because they were designed for this.

Obviuesly my stance on the whole CW vs GWF issue is that a GWF should do 2x the dps and 50% the control of a CW to make both classes desireble.
Ore they could rename the CW to SCW(also known as the Shiaolin Control Wizzard) and change its lore to
"Making GWF useles since open-beta 2013" at least that would be honest to the community entering this game?

Game balance :

Gwf like mentioned before, because he is melee (in more danger) should get a raw dps bonus, this could easily be implemented by reducing the animation time on most skills (animation time effect's the usefulness of the power stat, compared to a TR power has about 50% the effect on a GWF because of this) also since he was designed as a tactical aoe strike (utility = sprint?) this would make more sense. ATM u can sprint all over the place, and then get locked in a position because of long animations, making ure mobility flawed to say the least.

CW also like mentioned before should have either less damage(if GWF doesnt need a buff) ore same damage and remain as they are. I feel they do there roll well, and it feels that GWF is comming short not the CW.

TR like i mentioned above i feel it is weird for them to be on the top chart in the current content, a lot of people wil be upset because of this conclusion i know, but when u look at the content/game design it doesnt make sense that a single target dps is outshining mass aoe dps with the number of adds in this game inside dungeons. I feel a class mechanic should be added to the TR something like
"Vendeta = when hitting a target the TR damage is reduced to all other targets for 10 seconds for 20%" ore something in this line. Atm i feel they just hop around and dish out tremendous amounts of dps, instead i feel they should be "utility" characters designed to take out bosses/elites, and for this reason this mechanic could easily be implemented to focus on this role in a team setting.

Before u flame me ore anything, i play a TR myself i got 4 chars atm and i stil feel that this is out of wack. The ease with wich a TR can get top damage compared to the gameplay of other characters is rediculues to say the least.

My humble opinion -Itheryel-
(comments and other insight's into the game design are apreciated as long as u have a critical view)
Sorry for my bad english.
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Post edited by itheryel on

Comments

  • neverhofneverhof Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 174 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I think the damage meters are about where they should be. If you buff the CW and GWF then you would effecitvely remove the need for a TR. After all why would you use a char that can only dps when you can use a char that can do nearly as much damage but has much more utility, like cc and mobility.

    The main reason a TR ends up on top of the damage, I think, is because of the health of the target. Alot of the runs I have done on my rogue, its the CW and GWF that end up on the top of most enemys slain chart. It makes sense if you think about it, say you have 20 mobs with 200k hit points each = 4 mil damage, where as the rogue is attacking a target with 10 million hit points. The rogue will comeout on top simply because of that ratio.

    Without a CW or GWF dungeon runs become very stressful for a cleric as the mobs end up scattered all over the place. If you gave people a choice of running a group with 3 rogue dps or 2 CW and a GWF they would nearly always pick the CW/GWF combo.
  • n0fxer#8270 n0fxer Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I appreciate where you are coming from, trying to get balance between the classes as you clearly feel that the GWF should be higher in the damage chain of things than the 2 other major players (CW and TR). I will save the usual spiel of playing MMOs forever and whatnot, but I can claim a good grasp on what I am seeing with the class set-up.

    CW makes groups into one mass then nukes them down, or can control main targets and focus on problem encounters. With this, a CW should be wanted by GWFs everywhere, as the greatest strength of a GWF is the multi-target bonuses they get from hitting multiple targets.

    This is where people seem to get confused about the classes. A rogue, trickster or otherwise, have always been known for being burst on single targets (when not the prime target themselves).. at least, this seems to be the status quo for most games, hence why you see TRs zipping around the battlefield, using the quick strikes on what looks like multiple targets, but they are bursting one at a time. GWFs are "swinging a big sword", so with a high strength SHOULD get some better bonuses on 2+ targets.

    TL;DR: I am pretty sure that the devs are aware of our slights/complaints/pointing outs of the classes, and so I will hold my pitchforks for more buffs, less nerfs. Artifically adding mechanics to bring up other classes when not used right is just plain wrong at best. In my opinion. Coffee time now,
  • kevinf08kevinf08 Member Posts: 432 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I read most of your post OP but you neglected to mention the greatest problem the GWF faces:

    Aoe DPS isn't very important when the minions meet there demise by flying off cliffs.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kevinf08 wrote: »
    I read most of your post OP but you neglected to mention the greatest problem the GWF faces:

    Aoe DPS isn't very important when the minions meet there demise by flying off cliffs.

    Pretty cynical comment.

    (NOTE: I said cynical not untrue......)
  • nwobrocknwobrock Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Obviusly the CW ore GWF shuld b desireble butt there naut wen TR is thier in grupe
  • th0rfinnth0rfinn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 119 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    This is the first game where I can see this BS. Where a mob killer does less damage than a single target melter. Cryptic logic
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    nwobrock wrote: »
    Obviusly the CW ore GWF shuld b desireble butt there naut wen TR is thier in grupe

    I c wut you did ther, well plaied sir!
  • itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Obviusly the CW ore GWF shuld b desireble butt there naut wen TR is thier in grupe
    I c wut you did ther, well plaied sir!

    Yeah i always love of topic ignorant post's demanding everybody write in fluent english when its an international game <.o

    Ar U American?
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
  • churchilligcchurchilligc Member Posts: 175 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    eistander wrote: »
    I appreciate where you are coming from, trying to get balance between the classes as you clearly feel that the GWF should be higher in the damage chain of things than the 2 other major players (CW and TR). I will save the usual spiel of playing MMOs forever and whatnot, but I can claim a good grasp on what I am seeing with the class set-up.

    CW makes groups into one mass then nukes them down, or can control main targets and focus on problem encounters. With this, a CW should be wanted by GWFs everywhere, as the greatest strength of a GWF is the multi-target bonuses they get from hitting multiple targets.

    This is where people seem to get confused about the classes. A rogue, trickster or otherwise, have always been known for being burst on single targets (when not the prime target themselves).. at least, this seems to be the status quo for most games, hence why you see TRs zipping around the battlefield, using the quick strikes on what looks like multiple targets, but they are bursting one at a time. GWFs are "swinging a big sword", so with a high strength SHOULD get some better bonuses on 2+ targets.

    TL;DR: I am pretty sure that the devs are aware of our slights/complaints/pointing outs of the classes, and so I will hold my pitchforks for more buffs, less nerfs. Artifically adding mechanics to bring up other classes when not used right is just plain wrong at best. In my opinion. Coffee time now,

    GWF gets damage reductions when hitting multiple targets and has pretty small target/AoE caps.

    So...try again.

    GWF should do twice the damage of a CW because a CW would still do equal or greater damage to a single target (and CC 100000x better) and a TR will still do more single target because it's all about the bleed stacks.
  • pinkfontpinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    As a TR, I may top the charts but I've never gotten most kills. I think that's where the AOE classes need to look to see if they are doing a good job or not.

    Then again, I haven't actually played a dungeon with a GWF in a very long time.
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
  • churchilligcchurchilligc Member Posts: 175 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Kills just means I tagged it...so not really.
Sign In or Register to comment.