Purple items sell value 1 copper. That way ninjas wont take to sell.
People who have the item equiped roll need all the time. You call them out about it and they say its for a friend blah blah blah.
I am sick of going on runs and people ninjaing. It happen 4 times today to me in groups.
The worst thing they think its funny.
If you want this to happen +1 it.
This is a really elegant solution -- but I'm not so sure it'll stop people clicking "need" anyway. Those types aren't the sort who consider whether or not they should be clicking "need"; they just click it.
Perhaps if an "are you sure? this item will bind etc..." confirmation on need? One with a "do not show this again" checkbox maybe.
Cleric has T2 helm > Same T2 Cleric helm drops > Cleric rolls need.
So? What does it have to do with you? That cleric doesn't roll on your helmet, right?
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mirariftMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
The problem is that people believe that there is an unspoken agreement to be honest/honorable, because there are those who have not confessed that they will need everything is where this unspoken agreement fails. If at the beginning everyone agrees that all party members will need on every item, that pretty much eliminates the problem. However, I have to agree with many posters that to have this outmoded, flawed system in first place is the real problem.
It is working as intended. More loot into AH, more AD needed to buy, more Zen sold. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp. This game is designed so that PWE makes as much money as possible. You think Bind on Equip on everything was an accident?
And yet some of the tier gear is BOP, which i can't work out for the life of me. But, you're right, PWE is the 5000 watt money vacuum cleaner of gaming.
Like all vacuum cleaners, they break down sometimes and deposit junk all over the place. Unbalance/Unfinished "beta"(lol) games are examples of such junk.
as much as I dont like the share item system. it was intended because the game cause 100million dollars investment, and there is a lot of mouth to feed in the company.
Who's defending the loot system? You've got people who want to scrap it altogether for something else (like me), and people who want to patch the bejeezuz out of it until it "works." Ironically, the patchers are driving towards a system where one has to wonder why we'd even need buttons for "Need / Greed / Pass" at all.
Then there are the people who say not to roll with pick-up groups if you don't like the system as is, but even that's not so much "defending" it as telling you how to deal with it if it really bothers you.
So I ask again, who's defending it, exactly?
If someone is making the argument that nothing needs to change, then they are defending the status quo, which is the current loot system.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
The amond of QQers is TOO **** HIGH. I dont get it what is the problem with the loot system? I find it as in the other MMOs that I used to play before. Fair to ALL people. If there are kids around here who got "ninjaed" /there are no ninjas cause in this game EVERYTHING goes thru the loot system other than non-common items/. If you kids stop complaining about everything in this game, it will work for everyone around here. But to break something that is good, I dont see any point.
Let me explain to you how its done. If you need an item, you roll need /that goes for shards, enchants and jewelery that are not class-bind/. It doesnt matter thow if it is class-bind or not, you just need the item to sell it in the AH to get AD to buy stuff you need. Its NEED. Greed option is if you dont care rather you get the item or not. You ALWAYS have the choice of PASS if you really dont need it.
But let me tell you this. Cryptic didnt gave you 3 mins to decide rather you need the item or greed it, use that time to check if the person who rolls need, really needs it. If he have better items equipped, roll NEED with him. I dont get it why everyone jump against people that doesnt pay like I do. I play fair and I like that loot system as it is. If you change it, that means the whiners will make you change the game they like it, not how it will benefit EVERYONE. If it does change the loot system, that means the prizes in the AH will go higher cause of insaficient class-based items and you will force people to buy ZEN with money.
I remember in Aion when it was released, they had the same loot system as NW and noone complained about it and they didnt change it till present days. Each person in the party have the equal rights on the loot no matter that it is not for his/her class. They all participated in the battle right? Or you want to say that if all 3-4-5 bosses drop loot for TR or GF only they can benefit from those items?
Keep the current system as it is, its fair to everyone. Whiners buy yourself some brain.
So you only NEED on something, that isnt for your class, if the person who rolled NEED doesnt really need it? That has got to be the most pathetic Ninja excuse I've ever heard.
Loot system in this grame is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. If everyone can NEED on an item then that definitely defeats the purpose of rolling need or greed. If that's how the developers want it then might as well REMOVE the Need/Greed option and just put in ROLL or PASS. Why? Because a lot of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like the one on top can dish out a lot of meaning to the word NEED. Need, because I need to use the item.. Need, because I need to sell the item.. Need, because I need to troll the pt. So just remove the Need and Greed options and replace it with ROLL. If you want to really use the current looting system then BoP if on NEED, BoE if on GREED.
Cryptic is being "blamed" for a poorly implemented party loot system that enables and even encourages poor player behavior rather than preventing it. You can't make people cool but you can stop them from acting uncool. This has been proven in other games which have solved the problem. No new rocket science is required.
I see, so, you blame the knife for the entire people dead because of knife, or car factory for the death toll in the highway crash, good way of thinking. so somebody solve the problem, what is it now you tell me?
Who's defending the loot system? You've got people who want to scrap it altogether for something else (like me), and people who want to patch the bejeezuz out of it until it "works." Ironically, the patchers are driving towards a system where one has to wonder why we'd even need buttons for "Need / Greed / Pass" at all.
I do. are you choose to do "Auto-roll on everything" loot system?
On the contrary, it works exactly as it should if the need button is made available only when it makes sense. You can't make people cool, but you can prevent them from acting on their uncool impulses.
When an item pops up it says your class cant use this it should only let you greed or pass as you clearly don't need the item if your class cant use it. simple fix to a big problem.
that you can equip? so, it is okay to Need on everything that you can equip?
There are three buttons for a reason. If it was true that everyone has a legit claim to a piece of Cleric gear (for example) then there would only be Roll/Pass. Surely that's obvious?.
I doubt the idea was to make materials BoP, if so that would be problematic area. Aside of that how would it hurt anything or anyone? Cause aside of really needing item and not. Greed would still let your obvious high dice rolls win. Not to mention any organised group could just greed pretty much all and decide what to sell or not to sell.
BoP eh, will it stop your so called "ninja looting"? no, they still throw it to NPC make gold, add reduce price to 1 copper? BoP + 1 copper will get the game to the point where "unbind" mechanism come, even BoP itself will trigger that point oneday, most MMO does it. but BoP will change AH, this will push the AH price to up even more cause less people will sell. why, player picking their own equip for class because of this right? true, but numbers of players per classes is not the same, the price raise among classes with smaller number of player, so, some will buy cheap gear which they can use and sell it again with higher price. in the end, it raise all price on AH or reduce players to play that classes.
the looting system change also will not stop them. the only way, if you all really want to do it, by removing Queue system. without Queue everyone will force to make team before dungeoning, and with that you can set how loot will taken care. other thing you want to remove is Zen-AD exchange feature, most of the "ninja loot" I know is after this one, so, they can use or sell Zen item without real money. why? many reason, for example Coalesence ward, you can get it by luck using 7 Ardent Coin box, or simply buy it using zen, meaning looting everything on "need" can raise the chance to get the ward.
Well I do agree that people could just throw items for gold if its on BoP, but the real currency here is AD. People will really be force to greed on something they wanna sell and everyone will have a fair roll. Ninjas/Farmers will think twice needing on something thats worth 1m AD unless if they just wanna troll everyone. Run a dungeon for 35-45 minutes and you gonna need the item for 1 gold rather than risk a 20% chance in getting it for 1m AD? Youd be plain stupid to do that.
I see, so, you blame the knife for the entire people dead because of knife, or car factory for the death toll in the highway crash, good way of thinking. so somebody solve the problem, what is it now you tell me?
I do. are you choose to do "Auto-roll on everything" loot system?
so tell me, what "make sense"?
that you can equip? so, it is okay to Need on everything that you can equip?
then you think about the quote below:
BoP eh, will it stop your so called "ninja looting"? no, they still throw it to NPC make gold, add reduce price to 1 copper? BoP + 1 copper will get the game to the point where "unbind" mechanism come, even BoP itself will trigger that point oneday, most MMO does it. but BoP will change AH, this will push the AH price to up even more cause less people will sell. why, player picking their own equip for class because of this right? true, but numbers of players per classes is not the same, the price raise among classes with smaller number of player, so, some will buy cheap gear which they can use and sell it again with higher price. in the end, it raise all price on AH or reduce players to play that classes.
the looting system change also will not stop them. the only way, if you all really want to do it, by removing Queue system. without Queue everyone will force to make team before dungeoning, and with that you can set how loot will taken care. other thing you want to remove is Zen-AD exchange feature, most of the "ninja loot" I know is after this one, so, they can use or sell Zen item without real money. why? many reason, for example Coalesence ward, you can get it by luck using 7 Ardent Coin box, or simply buy it using zen, meaning looting everything on "need" can raise the chance to get the ward.
Your incorrect. It would be a very small group of players that would need an item that bound to them that was worth one copper.
You dont need to remove queue system. And for the record i have done runs where loot rules were discussed and agreed then ninja ninjas and logs. Your post is so wrong
Well I do agree that people could just throw items for gold if its on BoP, but the real currency here is AD. People will really be force to greed on something they wanna sell and everyone will have a fair roll. Ninjas/Farmers will think twice needing on something thats worth 1m AD unless if they just wanna troll everyone. Run a dungeon for 35-45 minutes and you gonna need the item for 1 gold rather than risk a 20% chance in getting it for 1m AD? Youd be plain stupid to do that.
Did you even read the first post. Make the item worth 1 copper and you have removed that option too
This is a really elegant solution -- but I'm not so sure it'll stop people clicking "need" anyway. Those types aren't the sort who consider whether or not they should be clicking "need"; they just click it.
Perhaps if an "are you sure? this item will bind etc..." confirmation on need? One with a "do not show this again" checkbox maybe.
Thank you. I think it is the most simple fix to a complex problem. There will still be a very small group that might need to be childish but for the most part its probllem solved
The problem with need roll being an option to all, instead of only being able to roll need on your specific class items, is that I would expect to see many a TR for example, roll need on BoE, or BoP DC boots because he thinks having 1 gold extra for 5 injury kits is more important than a DC getting an upgrade.
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
I think people who kick rest of their party before looting last boss is a more important issue than needers because,you dont even have the chance to roll either greed or need on loot not even loot your delves chest.Solution to this? Simplest ever make kicking people by voting so one guy cant kick another 4 when boss is dead AND put a timer of like 1 minute or for the duration of looting if a loot is about to be distributed so you have time to loot delves chest at least.
OP has social issues, selfishly belives in "honor" when the system already presents it as open format for anyone; loot goes to who ever wins the roll be it need or greed...winner gets it, its part of human nature. How hard is it to not understand? OP needs to make friends, because there is no contract with legal obligations that says everyone else has to follow this "honor" system...but in the current system it is easier with friends...which goes to the first thing mentioned...OP has social issues.
On the other hand, a non-loot specific system would be better where everyone gets the same amount of tokens. Like those drake or unicorn tokens that drop...get X amount, turn in for crappy bag to bounty hunter, bag drops crappy green item that is red cause its the wrong class and its unidentified, identify the item, then put on AH with the bounty hunter laughing behind your back knowing no one is going to buy it. Done deal, works as everyone gets something without the stress and the greedy "But I can use it! Its ONLY MINE! I LICKED IT FIRST!" attitude the likes the OP complains about.
The OP does not want to ever party with you. I am in a guild with 300+ members which is full and an alt guild that is approaching full. I do however from time to time want to pug run. Does that mean i have social issues.
You add nothing to the discussion. Just run with friends does not resolve the problem.
I think you should go back to the lower end of the foodchain when you belong
The problem with need roll being an option to all, instead of only being able to roll need on your specific class items, is that I would expect to see many a TR for example, roll need on BoE, or BoP DC boots because he thinks having 1 gold extra for 5 injury kits is more important than a DC getting an upgrade.
Dude read the post. Make the item worth 1 copper- sigh
one time we asked a guy needing everything why.. he said he just hit 1 for all popups what they could do is change the order greed need pass, or even greed pass need it wont help against deliberate ninjas but it will help against people who just always hit 1 for everything.
no real need to change the bind rules just grey out need on items they cant use.
if everyone can ALWAYS needs then there is no need button its just [greed] [ill take it if no one wants it] and [pass]
Ive made about 4 million AD from Ninjaring from the Ninjas so i don't care all that much if it changes. Learn to inspect they're gear each time you see anyone need on stuff, seriously!
I roll need on only rogue gear at the end, just to sell unless its a guildie who needs because i only need the daggers from Castle Never but still need AD for Enchants, so deal with it other Rogues!
You dont need to remove queue system. And for the record i have done runs where loot rules were discussed and agreed then ninja ninjas and logs. Your post is so wrong
thats good, but how many time it done compare to the one straightly goes to battle without saying a single thing??
I'll tell you something even if you make a need roll on a purple worth 1 copper, if the people you mention are ninjas indeed they will still roll for it just to make you nerdrage.
The need and greed system has never worked good in any mmo I played (that I can't remember) and I played quite a "few".
When the problem is people there is no system you can put in place that will ever work 100% , not even close to it.
So like suggested here if you want it not to happen just go with friends.
I would rather have them focus on the party leader "has all permissions" problem. You just go into a dungeon and they kick you if they don't want you without going through any kind of voting. That is way worse than the loot rolls.
one time we asked a guy needing everything why.. he said he just hit 1 for all popups what they could do is change the order greed need pass, or even greed pass need it wont help against deliberate ninjas but it will help against people who just always hit 1 for everything.
I vote on that one, cause when you dead you call help also using 1
some people also didnt know why to Greed than Need if they just want to sell it
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codewizardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
-1
Don't bind need on pickup - what if I accidentally need it, win, and then wish to give it to the more "needy" in the group?
Individual loots is so much fairer - although I understand much more difficult to implement. I don't really care how difficult it is to implement, as ninja's completely ruin the experience.
1 Person picks up one copper - everybody in the group should get 1 copper - that's fair. But the ninja's get to all the arcane/theft/dungeoneering/nature/religion chests first, so the rest of the group get screwed.
And what if that class has it or better slotted. Instant ah winner for them is it.
Honestly I really don't have a problem with the CW in the group getting all CW gear that drops as long as he isn't stealing... say GF gear from the tank. I am more than happy to consider gear that drops for his class meaning he wins it. It would still cause problems for runs with 2 of the same class, but is a far better system than what we have.
Anyway, the OP's suggestion combined with the class restricted need suggestion would both work extremely well together to negate your posted concern.
Individual loots is so much fairer - although I understand much more difficult to implement. I don't really care how difficult it is to implement,.
It was stated back during the beta weekends that the loot system needed to be changed. It isn't just about ninjas the whole loot system needs to be changed to individual. This is a action mmorpg is it not?
Individual loot is a standard in modern action mmorpg, I have no idea what the devs were thinking when they put a n/g/p system in neverwinter.
The popup has gotten me killed a couple times. (shift for dodge, block, ect. and shift-1 for loot.)
The not knowing what is mine on the ground is aggravating even when running with friends.
The fact that it is just saner to just hit shift-1 just to get the popup off the screen defeats the system.
The need/greed/pass system is outdated, and has never worked in any mmorpg let alone an action mmorpg.
The fact that everything is unidentified to begin with is even another reason n/g/p just doesn't work.
I have gotten to the point of running by myself as much as possible because all of my friends hate the loot system with a passion.
I completely disagree with your concept of what need rolls are. Say I purchased an item on AH to get into a higher lvl dungeon quicker or to run dungeons faster. Then I find it in the dungeon with my group on a subsequent run...why should I not be able to need that and resell it to recoup my previous investment? I played to earn it in both scenarios. Need it if you want it, greed it if you don't care. I don't try to take other class' stuff (unless they aren't present in the group and someone else rolls need), but there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to bid need on something I bought to speed up process and then recoup the investment later. That's just math. Less QQ, more DD. My .02 for ya.
In other word *All* rolls should be random for everybody, no need, no greed, but ou can still "pass".
I don#t like the system but it is more or less how it ends with your interpretation of "need" (hint : not the actual interpretation most use in MMO).
Comments
This is a really elegant solution -- but I'm not so sure it'll stop people clicking "need" anyway. Those types aren't the sort who consider whether or not they should be clicking "need"; they just click it.
Perhaps if an "are you sure? this item will bind etc..." confirmation on need? One with a "do not show this again" checkbox maybe.
So? What does it have to do with you? That cleric doesn't roll on your helmet, right?
And yet some of the tier gear is BOP, which i can't work out for the life of me. But, you're right, PWE is the 5000 watt money vacuum cleaner of gaming.
Like all vacuum cleaners, they break down sometimes and deposit junk all over the place. Unbalance/Unfinished "beta"(lol) games are examples of such junk.
Or fix it yourself, by rolling need on everything.
Then the game is fair again, and everyone has an equal chance at everything.
Wow, brain freeze!
umm or how about you can only roll need on items that your class can use?
If someone is making the argument that nothing needs to change, then they are defending the status quo, which is the current loot system.
-Travail.
So you only NEED on something, that isnt for your class, if the person who rolled NEED doesnt really need it? That has got to be the most pathetic Ninja excuse I've ever heard.
Loot system in this grame is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. If everyone can NEED on an item then that definitely defeats the purpose of rolling need or greed. If that's how the developers want it then might as well REMOVE the Need/Greed option and just put in ROLL or PASS. Why? Because a lot of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like the one on top can dish out a lot of meaning to the word NEED. Need, because I need to use the item.. Need, because I need to sell the item.. Need, because I need to troll the pt. So just remove the Need and Greed options and replace it with ROLL. If you want to really use the current looting system then BoP if on NEED, BoE if on GREED.
Even the richest person in the world will still tell you it's not enough money. Money will always be the issue, and it will never be enough.
I see, so, you blame the knife for the entire people dead because of knife, or car factory for the death toll in the highway crash, good way of thinking. so somebody solve the problem, what is it now you tell me?
I do. are you choose to do "Auto-roll on everything" loot system?
so tell me, what "make sense"?
that you can equip? so, it is okay to Need on everything that you can equip?
then you think about the quote below:
BoP eh, will it stop your so called "ninja looting"? no, they still throw it to NPC make gold, add reduce price to 1 copper? BoP + 1 copper will get the game to the point where "unbind" mechanism come, even BoP itself will trigger that point oneday, most MMO does it. but BoP will change AH, this will push the AH price to up even more cause less people will sell. why, player picking their own equip for class because of this right? true, but numbers of players per classes is not the same, the price raise among classes with smaller number of player, so, some will buy cheap gear which they can use and sell it again with higher price. in the end, it raise all price on AH or reduce players to play that classes.
the looting system change also will not stop them. the only way, if you all really want to do it, by removing Queue system. without Queue everyone will force to make team before dungeoning, and with that you can set how loot will taken care. other thing you want to remove is Zen-AD exchange feature, most of the "ninja loot" I know is after this one, so, they can use or sell Zen item without real money. why? many reason, for example Coalesence ward, you can get it by luck using 7 Ardent Coin box, or simply buy it using zen, meaning looting everything on "need" can raise the chance to get the ward.
Your incorrect. It would be a very small group of players that would need an item that bound to them that was worth one copper.
You dont need to remove queue system. And for the record i have done runs where loot rules were discussed and agreed then ninja ninjas and logs. Your post is so wrong
Did you even read the first post. Make the item worth 1 copper and you have removed that option too
OP says read the first post.
Thank you. I think it is the most simple fix to a complex problem. There will still be a very small group that might need to be childish but for the most part its probllem solved
The OP does not want to ever party with you. I am in a guild with 300+ members which is full and an alt guild that is approaching full. I do however from time to time want to pug run. Does that mean i have social issues.
You add nothing to the discussion. Just run with friends does not resolve the problem.
I think you should go back to the lower end of the foodchain when you belong
Dude read the post. Make the item worth 1 copper- sigh
no real need to change the bind rules just grey out need on items they cant use.
if everyone can ALWAYS needs then there is no need button its just [greed] [ill take it if no one wants it] and [pass]
I roll need on only rogue gear at the end, just to sell unless its a guildie who needs because i only need the daggers from Castle Never but still need AD for Enchants, so deal with it other Rogues!
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
And what if that class has it or better slotted. Instant ah winner for them is it.
I never said they will need it, but i said pushing the game to the point where "unbind" mechanism come.
thats good, but how many time it done compare to the one straightly goes to battle without saying a single thing??
I'll tell you something even if you make a need roll on a purple worth 1 copper, if the people you mention are ninjas indeed they will still roll for it just to make you nerdrage.
The need and greed system has never worked good in any mmo I played (that I can't remember) and I played quite a "few".
When the problem is people there is no system you can put in place that will ever work 100% , not even close to it.
So like suggested here if you want it not to happen just go with friends.
I would rather have them focus on the party leader "has all permissions" problem. You just go into a dungeon and they kick you if they don't want you without going through any kind of voting. That is way worse than the loot rolls.
I vote on that one, cause when you dead you call help also using 1
some people also didnt know why to Greed than Need if they just want to sell it
Don't bind need on pickup - what if I accidentally need it, win, and then wish to give it to the more "needy" in the group?
Individual loots is so much fairer - although I understand much more difficult to implement. I don't really care how difficult it is to implement, as ninja's completely ruin the experience.
1 Person picks up one copper - everybody in the group should get 1 copper - that's fair. But the ninja's get to all the arcane/theft/dungeoneering/nature/religion chests first, so the rest of the group get screwed.
Honestly I really don't have a problem with the CW in the group getting all CW gear that drops as long as he isn't stealing... say GF gear from the tank. I am more than happy to consider gear that drops for his class meaning he wins it. It would still cause problems for runs with 2 of the same class, but is a far better system than what we have.
Anyway, the OP's suggestion combined with the class restricted need suggestion would both work extremely well together to negate your posted concern.
It was stated back during the beta weekends that the loot system needed to be changed. It isn't just about ninjas the whole loot system needs to be changed to individual. This is a action mmorpg is it not?
Individual loot is a standard in modern action mmorpg, I have no idea what the devs were thinking when they put a n/g/p system in neverwinter.
The popup has gotten me killed a couple times. (shift for dodge, block, ect. and shift-1 for loot.)
The not knowing what is mine on the ground is aggravating even when running with friends.
The fact that it is just saner to just hit shift-1 just to get the popup off the screen defeats the system.
The need/greed/pass system is outdated, and has never worked in any mmorpg let alone an action mmorpg.
The fact that everything is unidentified to begin with is even another reason n/g/p just doesn't work.
I have gotten to the point of running by myself as much as possible because all of my friends hate the loot system with a passion.
In other word *All* rolls should be random for everybody, no need, no greed, but ou can still "pass".
I don#t like the system but it is more or less how it ends with your interpretation of "need" (hint : not the actual interpretation most use in MMO).