test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Clerics need some love.

aladnisaladnis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited June 2013 in The Temple
Yes. Love.
Why no Cleric aggro fix. It's getting old having to spend most fights running from targeted attacks and mob melee just because I heal. Heck, the aggro even persists through repeated deaths.

Think you guys can at least put some effort into that? I love the game, I love the cleric class, I even love to love you, baby, but this is just out of hand at this point and it ruins lots of runs with people new to the content. As you can imagine, they often screw up, though not their own fault for not knowing the content yet.

Anyway... some love would be appreciated.

Thank you,

The Mgmt.
Post edited by aladnis on
Fletchette F. Fletch
newbie rogue extraordinaire
«13

Comments

  • aeonbluessaeonbluess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It gets a lot easier when you hit 50. The Astral Shield spell incredibly powerful.
  • aladnisaladnis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aeonbluess wrote: »
    It gets a lot easier when you hit 50. The Astral Shield spell incredibly powerful.

    Thanks, but I'm already 60 with a GS of 9,046.

    The aggro hasn't improved and with 8 or so mobs beating me to death, even Astral Shield isn't enough, with potions, to keep me alive long. Toss in cooldowns and pip/DP being absent, it can get tough.

    :-)
    Fletchette F. Fletch
    newbie rogue extraordinaire
  • aeonbluessaeonbluess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Oh, I plop down TAB+AS, and and mobs have little to do with me. Whether or not I am running around in circles during boss fights is largely up to the other players. With some groups it's a rough ride, and some groups are really good at leaving the boss and hunting mobs. Mobs will change target on a whim.
  • piratedrugallpiratedrugall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 45
    edited May 2013
    I'm still in the late 30s, and I'm really looking forward to this Astral Shield skill. Because right now, I'm honestly about to reroll. The nerf on self-heals is just ludicrous. I deal <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage, I thought the trade off would be increased survivability or something at least. Instead I find myself popping a potion or two for each group of mobs I fight with nothing to show for it. I can barely see my health bar even nudge when I cast anything, even Bastion of Health. That's just ridiculous. I know everyone else has to pop potions that often, and I get that. But at least other classes get to deal decent damage. When I throw all my points into healing skills and feats, you'd think I would be able to, I don't know... heal myself. >>
  • kabothoriginalkabothoriginal Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 465 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Well unless you get lucky, don't bother trying to PVP either. AS isn't squat, they just knock you out of it then stun your abilities and then DPS you down in 5 seconds, had one char did it to me all night long... JUST the one. clerics just blow in pvp

    Oh that's right you were talking agro... yea Cleric agro is PITA I am really starting to think the Developers HATE clerics.
  • wafflebaronwafflebaron Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aladnis wrote: »
    Yes. Love.
    Heck, the aggro even persists through repeated deaths.

    Thank you,

    The Mgmt.

    I just found this out tonight. Every time a team mate picked me up from death the mobs would rush me again... and I had not even cast a single spell after i was up yet. So far running in circles drinking more potions than the entire group combined is starting to grow old. And trying to explain to the group the need to actually act like a group is growing even older I think :(
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »
    Astral shield isn't a fix. Clerics aren't supposed to be tanks.

    I disagree. D&D also disagrees with you.

    I'm all for them implementing something to give you guys what you want. However, I've built myself into a tank, a **** good tank. I will be very upset if they wreck my ability to be a tank.

    I vote give us feats/class features that let us CHOOSE our role.
  • icestriker77icestriker77 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yea I'd rather not be a tank, so that means I spend a good amount of time running and dodging everything.
    I literally walk into some rooms and the mobs turn and run at me without me even throwing down heals.

    Clerics definitely need an aggro fix....
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I haven't had to stack regen yet... but I have regeared to run 2400 defense along with 3800 crit/recovery and 4500 power. If I have to tank, I might as well be able to take some ****ing damage.
  • alandoril1alandoril1 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I disagree. D&D also disagrees with you.

    I'm all for them implementing something to give you guys what you want. However, I've built myself into a tank, a **** good tank. I will be very upset if they wreck my ability to be a tank.

    I vote give us feats/class features that let us CHOOSE our role.


    Well yes indeed you have, and that's great if you can afford the time and/or the in-game funds to acquire all the gear required to do it. Some can't.

    The fact of the matter is that there is no reason at all that clerics should have to spend an entire encounter running in circles chugging potions simply because they looked at the mob sideways. Our aggro is absolutely borked. What makes it even more hilarious is that I can be standing there not having cast anything at the start of an encounter to allow dps to acquire solid aggro, and then mobs will randomly peel off and start attacking me and all I've done literally nothing in the opening seconds of the encounter.
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    alandoril1 wrote: »
    Well yes indeed you have, and that's great if you can afford the time and/or the in-game funds to acquire all the gear required to do it. Some can't.

    First, people like Deistik and myself earned a lot of our gear BEFORE it was easily available on the AH. I ran Crypts 20-30 times to get the T1 boots I wanted. That's right, I had to FARM T1 to get gear to go FARM T2. I didn't have the "just buy it on the AH for dirt cheap" option you have.

    Second, you don't have TIME to get gear... you don't have TIME? WTF?!? The only conclusion any rational person can come to based on that statement is you want it given to you without any time or in game currency investment. You just want to walk in to T2s and Castle Never and 1-shot it in EZ mode because you don't have TIME to play the game and work your way up through the tiers getting better gear so you can handle the higher difficulty.

    Edit: I'm all for aggro management OPTIONS. I understand not everyone wants to be the (off)tanking cleric. However, what you said has nothing to do with that.
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I disagree. D&D also disagrees with you.

    I'm all for them implementing something to give you guys what you want. However, I've built myself into a tank, a **** good tank. I will be very upset if they wreck my ability to be a tank.

    I vote give us feats/class features that let us CHOOSE our role.

    You should be pounding the war drums for Templar cleric, giving mace and shield and skills that give you +40% threat from healing rather than -40% healing! :3

    Pretty sure if they release that cleric pre-build it will have at least one tanking option, while still offering aoe support heals, and perhaps even threat intended to be built by healing to the extent that we can right now.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • uvirith1uvirith1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 124
    edited May 2013
    I still puke everytime I open my characterwindow and see this righteousness-debuff.
    The developer who thought it would be a good idea to reduce the own heals of the healerclass by 40% should have the hairs on his <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> picked out with a pair of tweezers. slowly, one by one.
  • marzattakzmarzattakz Member Posts: 48
    edited May 2013
    Righteousness - Your chosen God has imbued you with their divine power granting you ............ for your chosen path.

    GIVE US THE OPTIONS VIA PARAGON PATH CHOICES TO FILL IN THE BLANKS.

    Wanna tank ... 30% more threat from healing, 10% defense bonus from AC
    Wanna heal ... 30% less threat from healing, 10% increased healing from POWER
    Wanna dps ... 10% more damage, 10% increased crit. severity, 10% more damage from divine encounter powers

    Add some negative reductions to balance the gain and we have a choice.
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aladnis wrote: »
    Yes. Love.
    Why no Cleric aggro fix. It's getting old having to spend most fights running from targeted attacks and mob melee just because I heal. Heck, the aggro even persists through repeated deaths.

    Think you guys can at least put some effort into that? I love the game, I love the cleric class, I even love to love you, baby, but this is just out of hand at this point and it ruins lots of runs with people new to the content. As you can imagine, they often screw up, though not their own fault for not knowing the content yet.

    Anyway... some love would be appreciated.

    Thank you,

    The Mgmt.
    It's not a Cleric Aggro fix, more of a Fighter Aggro fix.

    It's incoming, read the latest interview with Velasquez. They plan to fix it before end of OBT. But, as you might've noticed, they've had some higher-priority issues to address recently ^__^

    He also did mention additional Paragon Paths. I'm sure there'll be more build variety before the game gets to release state.
  • icosagonicosagon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I vote give us feats/class features that let us CHOOSE our role.

    I, for one, would've preferred to be up front with a shield and a morningstar. I can only hope that time will come soon.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    It's not a Cleric Aggro fix, more of a Fighter Aggro fix.

    It's incoming, read the latest interview with Velasquez. They plan to fix it before end of OBT. But, as you might've noticed, they've had some higher-priority issues to address recently ^__^

    Out of interest, do you have a link handy for that?
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Out of interest, do you have a link handy for that?
    It's on the front page. Not interview sorry, the press release or w/e you wanna call that update.
    As always, you can keep an eye on our latest changes in the Patch Notes. We’ve made a lot of progress and still have a long way to go. Here’s a short list of some of the top things our team has been working on lately — things we hope to have updates on very soon:

    Network performance and overall connection stability
    Queue system issues (wait times, teleportation issues, group composition)
    Party Loot issues (better allowing players to win the items they legitimately need)
    Making gear progression feel more visually and mechanically meaningful
    Improving the PvP system to better reward participation
    Aggro and threat balancing
    Auction house bug fixes and UI improvements
    Monitoring the economy to ensure that appropriate actions are taken to remove any remaining illegitimately gained currency and items
    http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=896631
    icosagon wrote: »
    I, for one, would've preferred to be up front with a shield and a morningstar. I can only hope that time will come soon.

    You're thinking Paladin, I believe.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    It's on the front page. Not interview sorry, the press release or w/e you wanna call that update.

    http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=896631.

    Thanks, appreciated :)
  • aladnisaladnis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Glad to see I am not the only person to have ever noticed this.

    @ausdoerrt:
    It really is an issue. Apparently, it's been this bad since closed BETA and was never fixed, hence the reason it is in the open BETA.

    I can't simply hope for a group that knows to kill adds. I have no way to know in advance short of asking, and that has gotten me kicked from groups before. Yes, asking if they know to kill adds quickly got me kicked.

    We have a "talent" which gives us 20% reduced aggro, but it seems like it's given me 200% MORE aggro. Heck, one time I zoned into a dungeon already in progress and got attacked before I even had the chance to move from my starting position (read: spawn point).

    @everyone

    It really needs to be fixed. It is, for all intents and purposes, very much broken. I love the class and the class mechanics, I love that I have to DPS in order to heal and I love the fact that I don't have to single target heal, but I hate the fact that most of my time is spent running, drinking, dodging and dying because aggro isn't being addressed.

    As far as their "pressing issues" getting in the way of this fix... it's a poor excuse.
    Fletchette F. Fletch
    newbie rogue extraordinaire
  • robusticarobustica Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Astral Shield is working fine for me as a temporary fix to the broken threat. The game mechanics are far from perfect I agree, but at least we have to do something instead of just standing on one spot casting healing spells. Especially the dodging is just part of the game, this should stay needed in all fights, PVE and PVP.
    robustica.jpg
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    aladnis wrote: »
    @ausdoerrt:
    It really is an issue. Apparently, it's been this bad since closed BETA and was never fixed, hence the reason it is in the open BETA.

    I can't simply hope for a group that knows to kill adds. I have no way to know in advance short of asking, and that has gotten me kicked from groups before. Yes, asking if they know to kill adds quickly got me kicked.
    There have been lots of changes and tweaks to combat throughout Alpha and Beta, you can't expect everything to be perfect. It's on their priority list now, they're working on it, can't ask for much more.

    Nobody forces you to run with arseholes :shrug: Discussing strategy with party is par course in most MMOs. From my experience with NWO, either you get a reasonable bunch who communicate and do well, or you get a party that fails soon enough because they can't. Personally, I'd probably leave such a group myself w/o waiting to be kicked. You also have the option to run solo/with a guild/with friends.
    As far as their "pressing issues" getting in the way of this fix... it's a poor excuse.
    Let's be reasonable, when you have more work than you can handle, you prioritize. This issue is important but not game-breaking, so no surprise that major exploits got the upper hand. You can't have everything at once, but I don't doubt they'll do something about it before officially releasing the game.
  • pnellesenpnellesen Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    robustica wrote: »
    Astral Shield is working fine for me as a temporary fix to the broken threat. The game mechanics are far from perfect I agree, but at least we have to do something instead of just standing on one spot casting healing spells. Especially the dodging is just part of the game, this should stay needed in all fights, PVE and PVP.

    Definitely think Clerics should get SOME aggro, no question, but the way it is now is crazy. And of course, there's the question of what to do before you get Astral Shield? Chains and Divine Sunburst helps a little bit, but unless the group is following you around killing adds while you kite and chug, you're going to go down eventually...
  • icosagonicosagon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    You're thinking Paladin, I believe.

    Nope, straight up battle cleric.
  • beldukilbeldukil Member Posts: 41
    edited May 2013
    Has anyone thought of using a divine searing light when kiting adds. Every mob will get 50% of the damage done to all other mobs in the area. So lets say you are kiting 10 mobs and hit them with a searing light for 1000 hp. You will also do 9x500=4500 extra damage to each mob in the train for a total of 5500 (more if there are crits). Could this be used to burn down trains instead of kiting them?
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    icosagon wrote: »
    Nope, straight up battle cleric.
    I'm not all that familiar with 4e rules, but I've been led that the Paladin is the divine defender these days (Holy Avenger the striker, Cleric - the leader etc.). Not sure if clerics get a tanky option anymore; 4e PHB pictures them with a weapon and a holy symbol.
    beldukil wrote: »
    Has anyone thought of using a divine searing light when kiting adds. Every mob will get 50% of the damage done to all other mobs in the area. So lets say you are kiting 10 mobs and hit them with a searing light for 1000 hp. You will also do 9x500=4500 extra damage to each mob in the train for a total of 5500 (more if there are crits). Could this be used to burn down trains instead of kiting them?
    I've used this to clear adds up to level 30 or so. I haven't checked if there's a max number of times it can chain like that, but I've found Daunting Light to be more powerful so far. Another problem I see is that you'll need more Div. Power - to keep up FF as well. Worth trying though.
  • nunavailablenunavailable Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    I'm not all that familiar with 4e rules, but I've been led that the Paladin is the divine defender these days (Holy Avenger the striker, Cleric - the leader etc.). Not sure if clerics get a tanky option anymore; 4e PHB pictures them with a weapon and a holy symbol...
    You're spot on with that. Clerics cannot use a shield unless the use a Feat to learn the ability (in 4E). There is a Battle Cleric and a Divine Cleric, the difference being the former is a ranged spell slinger (more healy), while the later is a front-line smashy-smashy melee type, who heals on the side. That's what I'm currently playing in a PnP campaign right now. Tons-o-fun!
  • dnd80proofdnd80proof Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    icosagon wrote: »
    I, for one, would've preferred to be up front with a shield and a morningstar. I can only hope that time will come soon.

    1983 called. It wants its cleric back. ;)

    This is 4th edition (which I don't know much about), but it seems the old mace-and-shield heavy plate cleric is a thing of the past. It's definitely not a Neverwinter thing.
  • aladnisaladnis Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    There have been lots of changes and tweaks to combat throughout Alpha and Beta, you can't expect everything to be perfect. It's on their priority list now, they're working on it, can't ask for much more.

    I get that there have been changes and tweaks, fixes and additions... even subtractions. But to give us 40% LESS healing on ourselves and coupling that WITH the broken threat is just bad.

    I am not complaining. I am asking them to expedite the fix is all. As I said, I love the game and the class, but that I just wish the threat wasn't such an issue.
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    Nobody forces you to run with arseholes :shrug: Discussing strategy with party is par course in most MMOs. From my experience with NWO, either you get a reasonable bunch who communicate and do well, or you get a party that fails soon enough because they can't. Personally, I'd probably leave such a group myself w/o waiting to be kicked. You also have the option to run solo/with a guild/with friends.

    They aren't "arseholes," as you say. They are simply new to content and do not understand the encounters yet. I have no problem with that aspect as you will ALWAYS run into it with random groups. There is no avoiding it being assigned a random group, and friends are not always online to group with.

    As for waiting to be kicked; I do not wait for it. When I asked if people understand basic strategy, they take offense to it and kick me. You are reading far more into my words than I am actually placing there and it is probably my fault for not completely conveying what it is I have issue with. I will attempt to state things in a more clear manner in the future.
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    Let's be reasonable, when you have more work than you can handle, you prioritize. This issue is important but not game-breaking, so no surprise that major exploits got the upper hand. You can't have everything at once, but I don't doubt they'll do something about it before officially releasing the game.

    Let's be reasonable? That statement assumes I am being UNreasonable, which I am not. I am explaining my experiences with broken threat.

    You are not listening to the issue at hand. It is game breaking, to a point, when you have inexperienced party members who are only at the bare minimum for entering the instance to begin with. If I have to spend the entire fight dodging mobs and drinking potions, I am not DPSing enough to keep heals going. If I cannot keep heals going, the tank dies, I die, the DPS dies. Sure, potions are actually viable in this game. I LOVE that. However, they have a cooldown during encounters and I suffer for that.

    I could drop group, sure... but why bother? I'd rather be a part of the community and TRY to get new players used to the content, even if it means pulling my hair out. I'd prefer to help, which is why I play healer classes to begin with. Running from a challenge is no way to be and I find I make more friends by not being the guy who drops just because we wipe a few times or don't complete the dungeon.

    You play your way, I play my way, you can believe the aggro isn't a problem, I can believe it is. I am not twisting your arm to agree with me. I am, again, only stating what is broken for my chosen class, and aggro is indeed broken.

    Thanks anyway, bro. I appreciate your feedback and contribution to the thread. :-)
    Fletchette F. Fletch
    newbie rogue extraordinaire
Sign In or Register to comment.