I love when people make posts like this, "Yea I just did <insert random boss name here> with a group made up of some wet cardboard and a coma patient it was super easy, just used our awesome deeps to burn her her down. /Sniff nothing to it, not sure what all your problems are"
Except for the fact that you've glossed over the major crux of the boss (the adds) and how the hell you handled it when they spawned. I for one would like to know given that they hit extremely hard, have a good amount of HP and pop up pretty often.
The GF picked them up and stood near me (DC). We had one TR on the boss. The other TR and the CW were on add duty the entire time. They got to about half health normally before the boss ate them. the amount of health she gets I guess is related to how much health the adds have, or maybe that explains why that phase of the fight went so slowly. They appeared to be stunned a lot, but I didn't exactly ask them how they did it.
Problem with that is GWF doesn't kill adds well, so
Edit: RE: Testing
We all know none of that happens, lol.
You've obviously never walked a GWF into a mob of adds after setting off Slam + unstoppable while holding down the button for Weapon master strike with destroyer and steel blitz as passives.
You've obviously never walked a GWF into a mob of adds after setting off Slam + unstoppable while holding down the button for Weapon master strike with destroyer and steel blitz as passives.
Does GWF finally do superior aoe damage to GF? Still have never seen that
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Does GWF finally do superior aoe damage to GF? Still have never seen that
Always has... it's single target damage where the GWF sucks. Main problem with GWF in dungeons is the CWs are always knocking adds away from the GWF so the GWF can't do his job, why attack the same group of adds the GWF is fighting?
You've obviously never walked a GWF into a mob of adds after setting off Slam + unstoppable while holding down the button for Weapon master strike with destroyer and steel blitz as passives.
Nah, I have. CW does more AoE damage than us while CC'ing, and TR does more damage to one target than we do with Slam (5 target cap)+WMS while fighting a group of mobs.
Lots of numbers =/= lots of effectiveness.
Even when CW's place everything nice and neat with constant Singularity, it still doesn't make GWF do a lot of damage, it just makes GWF feel like they are doing something.
Always has... it's single target damage where the GWF sucks. Main problem with GWF in dungeons is the CWs are always knocking adds away from the GWF so the GWF can't do his job, why attack the same group of adds the GWF is fighting?
Huh, I play with a complete slacker then. Good to know.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Not unless that's new. She's always drained mobs just standing around on normal ground.
No, she marks the mobs that are going to be drained full, and her web spawn are cast to ensnare her own creeps, since little spiders move fast same as blade masters, she fail to capture them, and the webs are left of on the floor as minefields, test it, stand on a web patch and she will use her drain attack(its the one that knocks you prone if it lands).
Finished her twice now, 11.5k GF (artificially boosted since he's DPS spec), 10k DC (me), 3 randoms (CW, CW, TR all 9.5k ish). Wasn't particularly hard to bring her down. Was a bit surprised that the construction crew had bricked up all the pits, but we recovered.
Good thing they put a stop to the easy armor farming. Almost all the groups I had been in previously wanted to glitch her somehow, whether is was fall-glitching her or pulling her through the door. Exactly what all the crying in this thread is about No more free loots.
I tried for a couple of days to get a team together for that dungeon/stayed in queue, perhaps the exploit or the resolution of the exploit is why the dungeon fell out of fashion? >.>
Sounds delightfully challenging though, I'm looking forward to it with my second character.
i did this dungeon before the exploit was found. it was challenging but doable. and then once everyone started using the exploit it go so boring I just stopped. so glad its fixed honestly. but now its a lot harder so people will complain.
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covinus03Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
i did this dungeon before the exploit was found. it was challenging but doable. and then once everyone started using the exploit it go so boring I just stopped. so glad its fixed honestly. but now its a lot harder so people will complain.
I love that people automatically assume people are just complaining because it's harder without ever even bothering to read the details of the complaints themselves. It's not that it's harder it's that it can very quickly become neigh impossible with average Dungeon Finder groups, no group should be doomed to failure if you just don't happen to hit the jackpot and get a perfect party combo of people that way overgear the place.
It looks like this thread is basically a war between people who want the entire game to be winnable by the lowest common denominator player, and people who have the skill to complete the hard stuff saying that it's a reasonably tuned piece of content for the end of the current game.
I've always been on the side of tuning content to scale up in difficulty. There's a need for easy dungeons so the baddies have something to do, but there's also a need for tough dungeons that present a challenge to players with skill and gear.
The fact that people are going in with regular 1 tank/1 heal/3 dps setups and completing it mean that it falls within the realm of acceptable difficulty for an MMORPG so long as there are dungeons that can be completed with less gear and skill for other players.
I say that as a newish player with only 1 character. I just outlevelled the Lair of the Mad Dragon without beating the final boss, despite desperately trying to kill him with 6 different parties. I was very frustrated, but at the same time, I could clearly identify the weak players in each party and I realize that I just didn't get lucky enough to get grouped with 4 players that were skilled enough for the encounter. I just have to accept it and try again at level 60.
It is what it is. Not everyone gets a cookie and there's nothing wrong with that.
Always has... it's single target damage where the GWF sucks. Main problem with GWF in dungeons is the CWs are always knocking adds away from the GWF so the GWF can't do his job, why attack the same group of adds the GWF is fighting?
This right here! I HATE when trying to do my job in a group and can't because my adds are bouncing all around due to knock backs..... Weeeee
It looks like this thread is basically a war between people who want the entire game to be winnable by the lowest common denominator player, and people who have the skill to complete the hard stuff saying that it's a reasonably tuned piece of content for the end of the current game.
I've always been on the side of tuning content to scale up in difficulty. There's a need for easy dungeons so the baddies have something to do, but there's also a need for tough dungeons that present a challenge to players with skill and gear.
The fact that people are going in with regular 1 tank/1 heal/3 dps setups and completing it mean that it falls within the realm of acceptable difficulty for an MMORPG so long as there are dungeons that can be completed with less gear and skill for other players.
I say that as a newish player with only 1 character. I just outlevelled the Lair of the Mad Dragon without beating the final boss, despite desperately trying to kill him with 6 different parties. I was very frustrated, but at the same time, I could clearly identify the weak players in each party and I realize that I just didn't get lucky enough to get grouped with 4 players that were skilled enough for the encounter. I just have to accept it and try again at level 60.
It is what it is. Not everyone gets a cookie and there's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing between 35 and 60 to prepare people for Epic Mad Dragon anyway
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Yeah, one of the groups I was in had a Great Weapon Fighter who was on his second character. He talked about Epic Mad Dragon being the toughest fight in the game right now. He also gave some pointers about the fight and we discussed some strategies that might work. That group didn't do that well because we just couldn't kill adds fast enough. We had 2 healers, but one of them was a weak player. Overall last weekend was very frustrating, but this isn't my first rodeo and I've learned to accept that defeat is actually an option. He'll still be there at level 60.
I think this is a problem entirely generated by the minimum gearscore listings for these dungeons. It's not a real problem, it's an imagined one.
Cryptic puts GS requirements so that people don't queue for stuff that is completely out of their league. But GS reqs are completely misleading. T2 dungeons are actually a progression, more or less requiring loot from the previous ones to complete the harder ones. Pirate King drops accessory T2 loot, so it is a dungeon one can relatively easily beat it with 8300 - it's T2.0.
Caverns and FH drop Arms/Feet, they should be the next hardest and are basically T2.1. In keeping with this, FH last boss probably needs to be tuned down slightly. Caverns would be an appropriate difficulty if you couldn't pull the 2nd boss, who is by far the hardest - pulling him trivializes it, unfortunately. It's certainly *possible* to do these with 8300GS, but it's certainly not easy. I would expect people to need around 9000 to have a reasonably challenging time in here.
Spellplague and Spider, giving Helm and Armor, are T2.2. You should struggle here unless you have experience with the previous T2s and around 9.5k+ GS. Dread Vault, 2.3 - 10k GS, Castle Never 2.4 - 10.5k GS.
Obviously, things didn't work out this way, because the Neverwinter team can't playtest and the bosses are completely out of whack. Don't let the GS requirement fool you, Spider should be about in the middle of T2 instances based on difficulty.
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sysquelmaylnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Ok so we just did this fight with 2 clerics, 2 rogues, and a GF. We just double circled and burned through all healing with with little crowd control from the GF to keep them off of healers. All clerics did was drop double circle and dps too.
My TR was at 8400 GS (newly leveled after fully gearing and abandoning the GWF ship) and I was ahead of the other TR in Temple of the Spider as well as Spellplague in total damage done, though I don't really know what his GS was. Our two clerics are between 9500 and 10500 and our CW is at 9500 (and no T2 crit damage set).
The adds/healing is currently broken, there is no way to prevent her from healing throughout the battle, only slightly lessen the amount she heals through incredibly precise timing.
What to look for:
She will throw her arms in the air, this signals when she would normally pop the red circles which explode and do a knockback. They don't actually pop on the other mobs, and if you knock them back or away, the circles just follow them and she keeps healing. The knockback does provide a break in the healing though, allowing you to keep progressing with your DPS.
She will also heal if:
She wants to
She feels like it
As soon as a new wave pops
She wants to
Randomly
If she doesn't like you
etc.
This is the part that seems broken. We did it, but I feel like we were lucky in that we got a solid break and the rest of the players really did a solid job of timing the knockbacks perfectly. Once we got her to 60% we pulled everyone to DPS her to push her down and got her to swap to Drider form.
In Drider form, she heals like she should heal - by popping circles on mobs which can be knocked back to prevent her from gaining health. She doesn't heal randomly or because she doesn't like you. If the whole fight was like phase 2, it would be pretty easy, even at 8300 GS (as long as you weren't a party of bads). Well, not easy because of bads but very manageable for people to beat.
Edit: 3DPS classes (not all TR's because bleeds don't stack) would also be able to burn her to the working phase2 pretty easily.
We just did this with 1 cleric, we dont usually go on easy mode with 2 clerics. Burned her down 1st time.
Great patch cryptic, The exploiters lost their exploit & legit players can still kill her as we did before, and i even got swash captains armour out the chest, happy times. Shame at spellplague after i didnt get a helm to match..but maybe next time.
We just did this with 1 cleric, we dont usually go on easy mode with 2 clerics. Burned her down 1st time.
Great patch cryptic, The exploiters lost their exploit & legit players can still kill her as we did before, and i even got swash captains armour out the chest, happy times. Shame at spellplague after i didnt get a helm to match..but maybe next time.
We just duo-ed it (1DC+1TR). No I won't tell you how we did it, I'll just say we 'burned her down 1st time'.
Want me to school you on how to do the other runs while im at it?
How is not the point, point is you can still do it fine as you could before, we use more or less, the same tactic as we did before.
Our party was 1 TR, 1 gwf, 1 clerc & 2 wizzy..the rest you can figure out yourself, or you can hire us to carry you through it & steal our method for a reasonable fee per run, being you cant figure it out or kill her yourself.
Have you seen me complaining about this dungeon? I still run it just fine with my guildies/partial static. I posted because your post carries no useful information on the topic, just arrogance. Instead of an interesting solution to an interesting boss fight.
Comments
The GF picked them up and stood near me (DC). We had one TR on the boss. The other TR and the CW were on add duty the entire time. They got to about half health normally before the boss ate them. the amount of health she gets I guess is related to how much health the adds have, or maybe that explains why that phase of the fight went so slowly. They appeared to be stunned a lot, but I didn't exactly ask them how they did it.
Take solace in the fact that all of her non chest loot is on sale for something like 5k on the AH.
You've obviously never walked a GWF into a mob of adds after setting off Slam + unstoppable while holding down the button for Weapon master strike with destroyer and steel blitz as passives.
Does GWF finally do superior aoe damage to GF? Still have never seen that
Always has... it's single target damage where the GWF sucks. Main problem with GWF in dungeons is the CWs are always knocking adds away from the GWF so the GWF can't do his job, why attack the same group of adds the GWF is fighting?
Nah, I have. CW does more AoE damage than us while CC'ing, and TR does more damage to one target than we do with Slam (5 target cap)+WMS while fighting a group of mobs.
Lots of numbers =/= lots of effectiveness.
Even when CW's place everything nice and neat with constant Singularity, it still doesn't make GWF do a lot of damage, it just makes GWF feel like they are doing something.
Huh, I play with a complete slacker then. Good to know.
Not unless that's new. She's always drained mobs just standing around on normal ground.
Good thing they put a stop to the easy armor farming. Almost all the groups I had been in previously wanted to glitch her somehow, whether is was fall-glitching her or pulling her through the door. Exactly what all the crying in this thread is about
Sounds delightfully challenging though, I'm looking forward to it with my second character.
I love that people automatically assume people are just complaining because it's harder without ever even bothering to read the details of the complaints themselves. It's not that it's harder it's that it can very quickly become neigh impossible with average Dungeon Finder groups, no group should be doomed to failure if you just don't happen to hit the jackpot and get a perfect party combo of people that way overgear the place.
Try it with all average geared people and it's simply a bit too hard.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Did you think before you post, or do you just post?
I've always been on the side of tuning content to scale up in difficulty. There's a need for easy dungeons so the baddies have something to do, but there's also a need for tough dungeons that present a challenge to players with skill and gear.
The fact that people are going in with regular 1 tank/1 heal/3 dps setups and completing it mean that it falls within the realm of acceptable difficulty for an MMORPG so long as there are dungeons that can be completed with less gear and skill for other players.
I say that as a newish player with only 1 character. I just outlevelled the Lair of the Mad Dragon without beating the final boss, despite desperately trying to kill him with 6 different parties. I was very frustrated, but at the same time, I could clearly identify the weak players in each party and I realize that I just didn't get lucky enough to get grouped with 4 players that were skilled enough for the encounter. I just have to accept it and try again at level 60.
It is what it is. Not everyone gets a cookie and there's nothing wrong with that.
This right here! I HATE when trying to do my job in a group and can't because my adds are bouncing all around due to knock backs..... Weeeee
There's nothing between 35 and 60 to prepare people for Epic Mad Dragon anyway
Cryptic puts GS requirements so that people don't queue for stuff that is completely out of their league. But GS reqs are completely misleading. T2 dungeons are actually a progression, more or less requiring loot from the previous ones to complete the harder ones. Pirate King drops accessory T2 loot, so it is a dungeon one can relatively easily beat it with 8300 - it's T2.0.
Caverns and FH drop Arms/Feet, they should be the next hardest and are basically T2.1. In keeping with this, FH last boss probably needs to be tuned down slightly. Caverns would be an appropriate difficulty if you couldn't pull the 2nd boss, who is by far the hardest - pulling him trivializes it, unfortunately. It's certainly *possible* to do these with 8300GS, but it's certainly not easy. I would expect people to need around 9000 to have a reasonably challenging time in here.
Spellplague and Spider, giving Helm and Armor, are T2.2. You should struggle here unless you have experience with the previous T2s and around 9.5k+ GS. Dread Vault, 2.3 - 10k GS, Castle Never 2.4 - 10.5k GS.
Obviously, things didn't work out this way, because the Neverwinter team can't playtest and the bosses are completely out of whack. Don't let the GS requirement fool you, Spider should be about in the middle of T2 instances based on difficulty.
My TR was at 8400 GS (newly leveled after fully gearing and abandoning the GWF ship) and I was ahead of the other TR in Temple of the Spider as well as Spellplague in total damage done, though I don't really know what his GS was. Our two clerics are between 9500 and 10500 and our CW is at 9500 (and no T2 crit damage set).
The adds/healing is currently broken, there is no way to prevent her from healing throughout the battle, only slightly lessen the amount she heals through incredibly precise timing.
What to look for:
She will throw her arms in the air, this signals when she would normally pop the red circles which explode and do a knockback. They don't actually pop on the other mobs, and if you knock them back or away, the circles just follow them and she keeps healing. The knockback does provide a break in the healing though, allowing you to keep progressing with your DPS.
She will also heal if:
She wants to
She feels like it
As soon as a new wave pops
She wants to
Randomly
If she doesn't like you
etc.
This is the part that seems broken. We did it, but I feel like we were lucky in that we got a solid break and the rest of the players really did a solid job of timing the knockbacks perfectly. Once we got her to 60% we pulled everyone to DPS her to push her down and got her to swap to Drider form.
In Drider form, she heals like she should heal - by popping circles on mobs which can be knocked back to prevent her from gaining health. She doesn't heal randomly or because she doesn't like you. If the whole fight was like phase 2, it would be pretty easy, even at 8300 GS (as long as you weren't a party of bads). Well, not easy because of bads but very manageable for people to beat.
Edit: 3DPS classes (not all TR's because bleeds don't stack) would also be able to burn her to the working phase2 pretty easily.
Great patch cryptic, The exploiters lost their exploit & legit players can still kill her as we did before, and i even got swash captains armour out the chest, happy times. Shame at spellplague after i didnt get a helm to match..but maybe next time.
We just duo-ed it (1DC+1TR). No I won't tell you how we did it, I'll just say we 'burned her down 1st time'.
See what I did there?
Want me to school you on how to do the other runs while im at it?
How is not the point, point is you can still do it fine as you could before, we use more or less, the same tactic as we did before.
Our party was 1 TR, 1 gwf, 1 clerc & 2 wizzy..the rest you can figure out yourself.
Have you seen me complaining about this dungeon? I still run it just fine with my guildies/partial static. I posted because your post carries no useful information on the topic, just arrogance. Instead of an interesting solution to an interesting boss fight.