i ran a dungeon today with a cleric who wasnt using shield or any form of healing spells ( <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> imo )and we never even made it to the boss but it got me thinking that cleric is really needed in most dungeons especially if you are farming for better gear otherwise you will just die all the time, but at op the cleric is there to make it easier not so you can just facetank the boss without pots , but there are some <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> clerics out there from my experience today.
instead of calling the cleric a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you could have asked said person a simple question, are you heal or dps spec'd as ive met alot while leveling that are specd for dps only, as they prefer the cleric as a ranged dps to the wizard
instead of calling the cleric a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you could have asked said person a simple question, are you heal or dps spec'd as ive met alot while leveling that are specd for dps only, as they prefer the cleric as a ranged dps to the wizard
Yup,some of us DC have a build that heals off of skill output (very high refresh rate).It's an up close and personal playstyle and requires the DCs party to really step up their game by means of utilizing their class strengths and not just DPS bosses.
It probably won't work post 50 when Astral Shield comes into play,but meh,it's a refreshing change from circle hugging.
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
You need to learn not to stand in the big red puddles of death unless it's absolutely unavoidable. Seriously, go play a cleric and then you'll actually understand how healing works in this game.
Also for every pot you have to drink a cleric will probably go through 3 or more seeing as no matter what anyone does clerics attract aggro like they have the largest gravitational pull in the universe.
Does a DPS still not expect the rest of the party to carry a weapon?
Does a tank still not expect the rest of the party to wear armour?
So, shouldn't a healer still not expect the rest of the party to use some potions?
No, he should expect everyone to have everything. Buff potions, healing potions, rejuvenation potions and everything else, because DCs mostly heal themselves. I often watch my gf play her cleric in random dungeon groups and I cry watching how dumb people are. She's running around with ALL of the adds on her struggling to stay alive while everybody else is just marrily DPSing the boss never even thinking about helping her out with the adds.
I told her to start trolling every group that does that and what she does is she dodges the adds, stands next to the CW till rings of death appear and then moves away. PUFF, the mage looses 3/4 of his HP and sometimes, just sometimes, he remembers what his god **** role is and starts _controlling_ the adds. I play CW myself and I can't imagine not being 100% focused on the adds and protecting the DC, yet most people do just the opposite.
Now I rolled my own DC and <sarcasm>I can't wait to start doing dungeons, really...</sarcasm>
Does a DPS still not expect the rest of the party to carry a weapon?
Does a tank still not expect the rest of the party to wear armour?
So, shouldn't a healer still not expect the rest of the party to use some potions?
In this case, that smarties should expect to corpse run often.
Bet you're TR as well as NO other class representatives have ZERO knowledge about other classes as TRs.
Yup,some of us DC have a build that heals off of skill output (very high refresh rate).It's an up close and personal playstyle and requires the DCs party to really step up their game by means of utilizing their class strengths and not just DPS bosses. It probably won't work post 50 when Astral Shield comes into play,but meh,it's a refreshing change from circle hugging.
Well to be honest I'm running with something close to Deistik's crit build and I hate being an Astral Shield bot. Luckily we run dual-cleric since the static in our guild are waiting for other members to hit cap. With that said I'm usually rolling dps and switch in AS and some AP gain traits for the tougher boss fights.
Last night we ran T1 EPIC QUAGMIRE due to delves starting at 2am and wanted something fast. I keep Forgemaster slotted in both my heal and dps speck. At the end of the dungeon, taking into account I only switched in Astral Shield for Boss fights, the tally showed that I came second in damage done (beaten by a dd rogue, out dps'd our GWF who has 1500 more GS than me), first in mobs killed and first in healing done. Moon-touched Hallowed Ground was also used but mainly just to speed up dps.
My point being that (d)Forgemasters and Astral Seal do a metric **** ton of healing especially when Forgemasters crits. Astral Shield is good to have, has it's place for many things but it is possible to have a good solid hps count using your other tools.
And yeah, dps who don't use their own pots and then ***** at the DC can jump off a cliff in my books.
In this case, that smarties should expect to corpse run often.
Bet you're TR as well as NO other class representatives have ZERO knowledge about other classes as TRs.
Eh my first charactor was a TR and I didn't have that attitude towards the other classes, and I was often the first if not the only one trying to help and save the cleric when I had cw and gwf who most likely better at the job having much better aoes and stuff.
I dont think this thread went at all like the OP was anticipating. Looks like he ran for the hills... poor guy.
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
Well to be honest I'm running with something close to Deistik's crit build and I hate being an Astral Shield bot. Luckily we run dual-cleric since the static in our guild are waiting for other members to hit cap. With that said I'm usually rolling dps and switch in AS and some AP gain traits for the tougher boss fights.
Last night we ran T1 EPIC QUAGMIRE due to delves starting at 2am and wanted something fast. I keep Forgemaster slotted in both my heal and dps speck. At the end of the dungeon, taking into account I only switched in Astral Shield for Boss fights, the tally showed that I came second in damage done (beaten by a dd rogue, out dps'd our GWF who has 1500 more GS than me), first in mobs killed and first in healing done. Moon-touched Hallowed Ground was also used but mainly just to speed up dps.
My point being that (d)Forgemasters and Astral Seal do a metric **** ton of healing especially when Forgemasters crits. Astral Shield is good to have, has it's place for many things but it is possible to have a good solid hps count using your other tools.
And yeah, dps who don't use their own pots and then ***** at the DC can jump off a cliff in my books.
I have to agree with Astral Seal.I think it's highly underated and for me at least it's been quite the monster.
I do have a very good crit chance and when gearing up I do pay it some mind,as some of my healing comes from criticals.My second DC is only level 29 -30 and as such I'm finding focusing on recovery serves me better.It gives me a constant stream DD/CC skills that mostly all have healing properties of some sort and as such,if my cleric has to stop casting and run due to adds not being handled or whatever then the whole party is basically doomed. lol
It puts the onus of survival in the partys hands rather than the clerics. hahaha
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
OR...
You need to learn not to get hit in the face so much.
Tank spec 60 DC here with 10.5k gear score @ OP , unlike most DC I don't kite unless I have no choice like final boss of epic spellplague. If you stand near me and not try to run behind me or around a corner to hide you won't die. I build action points faster the more mobs I tank and at all times have AS and DS down adding about 3k hps to all and 35% damage resistance my heals do 20% more of you are attacking a marked mob and I try to strife them in a ball and mark them all. As long as the party stays near me no one dies, you sir need to LTP
I just got my Cleric to cap and I think I use more pots along the way on that character then my Wizard for some weird reason. Would not venture into epics without em on either toon!
Clerics were actually designed as battle mages with healing augments. So they aren't like conventional healers in other games. The biggest issue preventing clerics from healing however is aggro. If you are not getting any type of heals, it's probably because the cleric in your group has about a hundred adds on them stunning/yanking/cursing/forking/calling bad names on them and they are using pots themselves cause clerics lose 40% of their healing augments used on themselves.
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
That's because you do, doofus.
Try playing a DC. This isn't WoW, you can't just spam Flash Heal/Flash Of Light on people.
DCs have one direct targetted heal, it has a 15 second cooldown per charge, and is only a HoT unless you're burning divinity. It's simply not how healing works in this game.
DCs heal by dropping stuff like astral seal on mobs, which allows smart attackers to regen on hit. They drop forgemaster's flame on a large target, which ticks AoE health in divinity mode. They drop astral shield on an area, which works well, if ADHD DPS pays attention and doesn't wander off.
Targetting is also crappy in this game for healing anyway. In a busy fight, it's virtually impossible to target someone consistently, since you can't use the party frames; even if you had a direct heal that was spammable, it wouldn't be very smart to rely on it.
Hell, DCs themselves burn insane amounts of pots, simply because their heal threat is so broken. Stop whining, they have a far worse time than you, with mediocre damage, and potion bill that would pay for Charlie Sheen's coke habit.
Yes, you should have your own pots. You shouldn't be expecting the cleric to get you out of trouble. Conversely, because every mob on the continent will be running for the cleric, you should be getting them out of trouble. If you want a bit more HP/dmg mitigation, look for the big golden circles on the ground caused by hallowed ground being cast, and also the yellow circles of astral seal on mobs (hit the mobs with astral seal to gain HP).
If your cleric is getting attacked by too many mobs, you will see a lot less healing, too. You can't whack away blindly at the boss screaming "OMG HAEL U ****" in this game. You need situational awareness, you need to look after both yourself and your healer. "Safety is job one", or something.
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zbluggMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
A good cleric will keep you up most of the time. Still, I carry my load of potions, just in case. Sometimes they just can't make it in time, so I pop one, takes some steam off of them, too. Remember, Clerics are not your healing slaves, they're part of a team. Even if the DPS is technically the Rogues and GWF's job, it doesn't mean the other three classes can't attack, no?
because everyone just keep hitting the boss without helping to clear the rest of those spawned mob,
when i did a aoe heal on the team, i get all the aggro and still i have to cleared the mobs, maintain my HP and yours while looking both at my cooldown and your HP still locating where you are so that i can heal individually
Go play a cleric then come back and continue this converation....
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tjockusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
If you dont bring your pots i wouldnt care to heal you. Need to be rdy to help out yourself a little. You know, there are 3 others to look after aswell (4 if i count myself). Pots are a wonderfull thing in this game. So short CD... So stop beeing cheap and contribute some...
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
Make and level your own DC and then tell us if you can't figure out why they ask you to bring your own potions. This isn't a tab target game, if someone steps in front of the DC as they are casting a heal, guess what, that person gets it, not the one who it may of been intended for.
Next, with the aggro issues in this game, in a larger encounter, the DC will most likely be doing everything they can to stay alive themselves while the group kills off the mobs. In that situation, you better be using potions.
I hate it so much when I see clerics telling you to have your own healing pots...isn't the point of having clerics to heal? Why should I have to use pots in a dungeon if I have a cleric? They need to learn to heal.
Don't blame the cleric, the game is designed around making you buy consumables for the convenience of being able to do things.
The lack of understanding of healing mechanics in this game is pretty funny. This is not WoW. This is not another MMO you played previously. DC can't just slam a single target Greater Heal on you. DC provides damage MITIGATION. If you receive spike damage (e.g. you didn't dodge a big attack) you need to deal with that yourself. DC can only save your butt up to a certain point - some of the responsibility is on you to avoid spike damage.
I had a CW who took 70% damage and then ran away from fight/away from astral shield/heals so he was safely around the corner and then says "HEAL ME CLERIC!!!". It doesn't work like that. Heals are where the fight is. Stand in the blue circle and avoid spike damage. It's not hard.
It's not funny anymore, it's just plain stupid.
The amount of ignorance surrounding DC heals is astonishing. I've gotten to the point where as soon as someone makes an ignorant comment about healing, my healing, or starts whining I put them on ignore. I don't have time to deal with asshats who don't understand game mechanics.
My favorite are the morons who watch you sliding around getting beat on by 50 mobs, without ever helping you, and then have the gall to ***** about your healing. Seriously?.../ignore!
Comments
instead of calling the cleric a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you could have asked said person a simple question, are you heal or dps spec'd as ive met alot while leveling that are specd for dps only, as they prefer the cleric as a ranged dps to the wizard
Yup,some of us DC have a build that heals off of skill output (very high refresh rate).It's an up close and personal playstyle and requires the DCs party to really step up their game by means of utilizing their class strengths and not just DPS bosses.
It probably won't work post 50 when Astral Shield comes into play,but meh,it's a refreshing change from circle hugging.
You need to learn not to stand in the big red puddles of death unless it's absolutely unavoidable. Seriously, go play a cleric and then you'll actually understand how healing works in this game.
Also for every pot you have to drink a cleric will probably go through 3 or more seeing as no matter what anyone does clerics attract aggro like they have the largest gravitational pull in the universe.
No, he should expect everyone to have everything. Buff potions, healing potions, rejuvenation potions and everything else, because DCs mostly heal themselves. I often watch my gf play her cleric in random dungeon groups and I cry watching how dumb people are. She's running around with ALL of the adds on her struggling to stay alive while everybody else is just marrily DPSing the boss never even thinking about helping her out with the adds.
I told her to start trolling every group that does that and what she does is she dodges the adds, stands next to the CW till rings of death appear and then moves away. PUFF, the mage looses 3/4 of his HP and sometimes, just sometimes, he remembers what his god **** role is and starts _controlling_ the adds. I play CW myself and I can't imagine not being 100% focused on the adds and protecting the DC, yet most people do just the opposite.
Now I rolled my own DC and <sarcasm>I can't wait to start doing dungeons, really...</sarcasm>
Regards,
Kalantris
In this case, that smarties should expect to corpse run often.
Bet you're TR as well as NO other class representatives have ZERO knowledge about other classes as TRs.
Well to be honest I'm running with something close to Deistik's crit build and I hate being an Astral Shield bot. Luckily we run dual-cleric since the static in our guild are waiting for other members to hit cap. With that said I'm usually rolling dps and switch in AS and some AP gain traits for the tougher boss fights.
Last night we ran T1 EPIC QUAGMIRE due to delves starting at 2am and wanted something fast. I keep Forgemaster slotted in both my heal and dps speck. At the end of the dungeon, taking into account I only switched in Astral Shield for Boss fights, the tally showed that I came second in damage done (beaten by a dd rogue, out dps'd our GWF who has 1500 more GS than me), first in mobs killed and first in healing done. Moon-touched Hallowed Ground was also used but mainly just to speed up dps.
My point being that (d)Forgemasters and Astral Seal do a metric **** ton of healing especially when Forgemasters crits. Astral Shield is good to have, has it's place for many things but it is possible to have a good solid hps count using your other tools.
And yeah, dps who don't use their own pots and then ***** at the DC can jump off a cliff in my books.
Eh my first charactor was a TR and I didn't have that attitude towards the other classes, and I was often the first if not the only one trying to help and save the cleric when I had cw and gwf who most likely better at the job having much better aoes and stuff.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
Nah he saw your avatar and dropped his nuts.
I have to agree with Astral Seal.I think it's highly underated and for me at least it's been quite the monster.
I do have a very good crit chance and when gearing up I do pay it some mind,as some of my healing comes from criticals.My second DC is only level 29 -30 and as such I'm finding focusing on recovery serves me better.It gives me a constant stream DD/CC skills that mostly all have healing properties of some sort and as such,if my cleric has to stop casting and run due to adds not being handled or whatever then the whole party is basically doomed. lol
It puts the onus of survival in the partys hands rather than the clerics. hahaha
OR...
You need to learn not to get hit in the face so much.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
It's your job to have pots and heal yourself. This isn't WoW, and you can go back there anytime, you wont be missed.
/shrug.
OP: why you no healz
Battle cleric: um I am tanking you dolt quit standing in the traps and you should be fine
"Why you no healz me naow?"
"You're a wf sorc, heal yourself"
That's because you do, doofus.
Try playing a DC. This isn't WoW, you can't just spam Flash Heal/Flash Of Light on people.
DCs have one direct targetted heal, it has a 15 second cooldown per charge, and is only a HoT unless you're burning divinity. It's simply not how healing works in this game.
DCs heal by dropping stuff like astral seal on mobs, which allows smart attackers to regen on hit. They drop forgemaster's flame on a large target, which ticks AoE health in divinity mode. They drop astral shield on an area, which works well, if ADHD DPS pays attention and doesn't wander off.
Targetting is also crappy in this game for healing anyway. In a busy fight, it's virtually impossible to target someone consistently, since you can't use the party frames; even if you had a direct heal that was spammable, it wouldn't be very smart to rely on it.
Hell, DCs themselves burn insane amounts of pots, simply because their heal threat is so broken. Stop whining, they have a far worse time than you, with mediocre damage, and potion bill that would pay for Charlie Sheen's coke habit.
Yes, you should have your own pots. You shouldn't be expecting the cleric to get you out of trouble. Conversely, because every mob on the continent will be running for the cleric, you should be getting them out of trouble. If you want a bit more HP/dmg mitigation, look for the big golden circles on the ground caused by hallowed ground being cast, and also the yellow circles of astral seal on mobs (hit the mobs with astral seal to gain HP).
If your cleric is getting attacked by too many mobs, you will see a lot less healing, too. You can't whack away blindly at the boss screaming "OMG HAEL U ****" in this game. You need situational awareness, you need to look after both yourself and your healer. "Safety is job one", or something.
A good cleric will keep you up most of the time. Still, I carry my load of potions, just in case. Sometimes they just can't make it in time, so I pop one, takes some steam off of them, too. Remember, Clerics are not your healing slaves, they're part of a team. Even if the DPS is technically the Rogues and GWF's job, it doesn't mean the other three classes can't attack, no?
because everyone just keep hitting the boss without helping to clear the rest of those spawned mob,
when i did a aoe heal on the team, i get all the aggro and still i have to cleared the mobs, maintain my HP and yours while looking both at my cooldown and your HP still locating where you are so that i can heal individually
so that is why so DC does not really like to heal
Make and level your own DC and then tell us if you can't figure out why they ask you to bring your own potions. This isn't a tab target game, if someone steps in front of the DC as they are casting a heal, guess what, that person gets it, not the one who it may of been intended for.
Next, with the aggro issues in this game, in a larger encounter, the DC will most likely be doing everything they can to stay alive themselves while the group kills off the mobs. In that situation, you better be using potions.
Don't blame the cleric, the game is designed around making you buy consumables for the convenience of being able to do things.
It's not funny anymore, it's just plain stupid.
The amount of ignorance surrounding DC heals is astonishing. I've gotten to the point where as soon as someone makes an ignorant comment about healing, my healing, or starts whining I put them on ignore. I don't have time to deal with asshats who don't understand game mechanics.
My favorite are the morons who watch you sliding around getting beat on by 50 mobs, without ever helping you, and then have the gall to ***** about your healing. Seriously?.../ignore!
Doubt it. The Op sounds like the typical NW player that doesn't even understand their own class, much less the classes they complain about.
"I don't have to drink potions. We have a cleric."
"I don't need to dodge or evade. We have a cleric."
"Why'd I die? We have a terrible cleric."
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. There is no "complete heal" button.