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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Temple

Forgemasters Flame Damage

shad99shad99 Member Posts: 79 Arc User
edited September 2013 in The Temple
I've been playing with Foregemaster Flame recently since I switched to using Astral Shield when soloing as I get ever closer to 60 (lvl 58 atm) as I heard people saying it makes a great heal when channeled.

Well it says that it does a large 2-3k of radiant damage (not exact as I'm not logged in) and yet both channeled and none channeled it hits like a limp noodle. I've checked my logs and it never does more than 600 damage even on a crit and averages around 500, with lows of 450.

Now if channeled and I'm using it to heal 500 is fine, but if I'm not... Shouldn't I get the 2-3k? 550 is the average damage I do with Sacred Flame, which is an at-will and has no cooldown. In fact on the same mobs it hits as the tooltip suggests (between 500-600), but Forgemasters does not.

I tested this on more than one type of mob and hundreds of times with the same result. Is this normal for everyone else?
Post edited by shad99 on

Comments

  • mlownzmlownz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    are you taking into account that FF damages and heals (when cast in DM) on every tick? Its not a single target damage or heal spell. i am sure you are taking that into account but i have to ask
  • akula69akula69 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    By channeled I am assuming you mean while in divine mode? Strange that it doesn't hit for more. I have never really paid attention to what it hits for I will have to take a look to see for myself.
  • dancingchimpdancingchimp Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Its one of the strongest heals. nuff said. Its superior!
  • shad99shad99 Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mlownz wrote: »
    are you taking into account that FF damages and heals (when cast in DM) on every tick? Its not a single target damage or heal spell. i am sure you are taking that into account but i have to ask

    Unless my log is faulty it's only recording one hit ever and no ticks at all. Which is funny since it records how much damage astral shield saves me from taking from every attack and even what damage my pet takes. So if it is supposed to be a DoT (And the damage entry does not suggest this, if it was a DoT it should list as 500 radiant damage rather than 2-3k as it does for other DoTs in the game).
    akula69 wrote: »
    By channeled I am assuming you mean while in divine mode? Strange that it doesn't hit for more. I have never really paid attention to what it hits for I will have to take a look to see for myself.

    Yes, divine mode or 'channeled divinity'. however you want to term it.
    dancingchimp wrote: »
    Its one of the strongest heals. nuff said. Its superior!

    Not really... If I cannot hurt anything It's a pain solo. Maybe your always in groups, but I'm not. I've had real problems whittling down solo bosses the whole time, but frankly the lack of damage is horrible on clerics... I do more damage with Chains of Blazing Light than anything else.
  • dancingchimpdancingchimp Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    more damage with Chains of Blazing Light than anything else.

    Wow, just wow.
  • realr3sistancerealr3sistance Member Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Are you considering that the damage is averaged between the ticks? Forgemaster's Flame is a DoT/HoT and iirc it ticks 5 times. 500*5=2500, even 450*5= 2250. Forgemaster's flame is pretty much the best heal we have, perhaps hallowed ground with moon touched can out do it but else wise nothing is gunna beat it.
  • dethvirdethvir Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I notice no problems when using FF. I see I believe three ticks of around 2k-3k damage per tick and I believe an equal amount is healed to nearby allies. I would say though that for trying to do more healing I will use FF but when trying to do more damage Daunting light will win out every time.
  • shad99shad99 Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    realr3sistance wrote: »
    Are you considering that the damage is averaged between the ticks? Forgemaster's Flame is a DoT/HoT and iirc it ticks 5 times. 500*5=2500, even 450*5= 2250. Forgemaster's flame is pretty much the best heal we have, perhaps hallowed ground with moon touched can out do it but else wise nothing is gunna beat it.

    For me my logs only show one tick ever. I've checked repeatedly and the only time I see a repeat is the next time the ability fires. It heals over multiple ticks, but I never see any repeated ticks of damage.

    And it seems I'm alone in getting 1 tick FF... Weird...
  • realr3sistancerealr3sistance Member Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    How about grabbing a group of medium/weak mobs, killing all but one off and casting forgemaster's flame on them and nothing else. Also make sure you don't have your companion up either, you should see it tick multiple times and then you can cross reference that to the logs you have to see if perhaps the following ticks are being detected as something else.
  • synalon1synalon1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I never used astral shield when soloing, just forgemaster flames, healing word and daunting light.

    99% I use forgemaster as a heal only, if you do cast it on a non special mob they die pretty quickly.
  • mlownzmlownz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    After checking my logs it is showing all my ticks:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Forgemaster's Flame deals 276 (323) Radiant to Wolf Packmate.

    [Combat (Self)] Your Forgemaster's Flame deals 276 (323) Radiant to Wolf Packmate.

    [Combat (Self)] Youngblood Archer deals 203 (272) Physical to you with an unknown ability.


    [Combat (Other)] Critical Hit! Wolf Packmate deals 713 (754) Physical to Your Ragnar with an unknown ability.

    [Combat (Self)] Your Forgemaster's Flame deals 276 (323) Radiant to Wolf Packmate.


    [Combat (Self)] Your Forgemaster's Flame deals 276 (323) Radiant to Wolf Packmate.


    [Combat (Self)] Your Forgemaster's Flame deals 276 (323) Radiant to Wolf Packmate.

    perhaps you should put in a bug ticket.
  • chonir01chonir01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 141 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I think the OPs issue is proximity related.

    Forgemasters only heals in a very tight area around the effected target. If your kiting / sliding / moving chances are your gonna move out of range for tick's of the spell.

    I use Forgemasters to heal the rogue on the boss in T2's and it works great, however you have to time it. Hitting a boss during a red splat that the rogue is avoiding will kill the healing done since the rogue is away from the boss avoiding an attack. I'm wondering if the OP is casting Forgemasters in melee then sliding away and hence being out of range and the heal not triggering since there is nothing in range to heal?
  • mlownzmlownz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yes, i dont know why i didnt think of that before but that could very well be his issue.
  • blorgenstogblorgenstog Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0
    edited May 2013
    This is a very good skill to use both solo and and in parties, the aoe heal affect is larger than u think I can stand like 3-4m away from a mob and still get the heals from it, and the divine mode slow aswell makes it a very good skill. Beats most other heals hands down for its spammability. Countless times I see my heals using only astral seal and ff when in a team with another healer not using ff and all other heals and out healing them everytime.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    shad99 wrote: »
    Unless my log is faulty it's only recording one hit ever and no ticks at all.

    Hrm, I'm def. seeing it tick damage, at least, even at range. Weird.
  • tsunami84tsunami84 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    shad99 wrote: »
    For me my logs only show one tick ever. I've checked repeatedly and the only time I see a repeat is the next time the ability fires. It heals over multiple ticks, but I never see any repeated ticks of damage.

    And it seems I'm alone in getting 1 tick FF... Weird...

    No your not alone, I'm getting it too I'm only level 35, but the comparison of doing the same damage as the sacred flame still holds. I assumed it was a bug and have stopped using it for the moment as I do mostly soloing and its about as useful as a glass of water to a drowning man.
  • ripcity313ripcity313 Banned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    in divine it slows the enemy deals DoT and HoT,( and it heals more then any other skill) what more do you want from it. its purely a situational skill, for elite mobs/bosses in pve or melee classes in pvp.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    FF can be quite efficient, for example if you dump a divine FF on the boss constantly, while maintaining an astral shield on the people fighting the add crowds. There was a problem with FF where it did not crit at all, but presumably that has been fixed now. As for non-divine FF, I just don't use it any more when soloing - it is so bad that it is utterly worthless.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • jack69assjack69ass Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I'm a new DC currently at lvl35.. I can see FF is efficient in DD for melee allies..it tickes DoT and HoT.. but im not sure its efficient for soloing, cuz of the small heal radius since we tend to slide away from enemies..
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It's efficient for soloing for several reasons: one, the healing is not affected by Righteousness; two, it allows you to kite your target, which should be a non elite/non-normal mob; and three, it does OK damage and the healing/DoT is affected by Terrifying Insight, which you really should have if you plan on soloing anything. Astral Shield is nice for areas like the Whispering Caverns and those bloody intellect devourers and mind flayers, but for most other areas you don't need to go all-out defensive. This includes Sharandar.

    It's not that effective at lower levels because you won't be fighting particularly difficult-to-handle elites/non-normals just yet.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    tyrtallow wrote: »
    It's efficient for soloing for several reasons: one, the healing is not affected by Righteousness; two, it allows you to kite your target, which should be a non elite/non-normal mob; and three, it does OK damage and the healing/DoT is affected by Terrifying Insight, which you really should have if you plan on soloing anything. Astral Shield is nice for areas like the Whispering Caverns and those bloody intellect devourers and mind flayers, but for most other areas you don't need to go all-out defensive. This includes Sharandar.

    It's not that effective at lower levels because you won't be fighting particularly difficult-to-handle elites/non-normals just yet.

    DoT's only add a single stack of Terrifying Insight, on the initial hit. The ticks do not add or maintain stacks. Furthermore, Terrifying Insight is a Damage Resist debuff, just like Divine Glow. From testing I just did on Preview, it does not increase the amount of healing from FF. That said, the amount of healing done seemed to be unrelated to the amount of damage. Putting how Hallowed Ground for a 35% damage buff didn't affect the healing amount at all, but did increase the damage.

    I suspect that healing amounts are rolled as a separate effect (and that only Power will increase them). The only thing it seems to share with the damage is the critical roll. I'm not sure +Healing effects boost it's heal amounts, either. I could see no difference with Healer's Lore slotted.
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The ticks do not add or maintain stacks, but the ticks are affected by the current number of Terrifying Insight stacks on your target. Simply attacking your target with at-wills will increase tick damage.

    Confirmed on live, Terrifying Insight does not affect Forgemaster's healing.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
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