Righteousness should probably only apply in PvP, because everywhere else there doesn't seem to be a good reason for it. Clerics often already take more damage in group PvE, so forcing them to use twice as many potions as anyone else makes little sense from a game design perspective. It also causes needless frustration and then leads to side effects like other players being unable to get T2 dungeons through LFG that have a working setup (no cleric).
As for leveling, well, my two clerics (re-rolled one after reading deistik's excellent guide) level much slower than my two CWs did, and they need more potions. My second wizard isn't even using the cleric companion. My rogue, also in that level range, slays monsters five times faster and also barely uses any potions.
Basically, Righteousness seems an unnecessary burden anywhere outside of PvP.
kiojikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
All I have to say is "Please Remove tha Handcuffs"
Im level 60 and PvPed quite a bit and run my fair share of dungeons.
Why do I load up on 60 Potions??
Because Im bored? ,Because I have 1million gold that I have no use for?, Because I like talking to NPCs?
NO - because I run around like a nut chugging them.
In dungeons 95% of the time at the end score board Im #1 in damage taken.
Sooth - is a myth and does not work.
So im the tank, and you were so nice to tie one arm around my back.
Please remove our Class Feature DEBUFF. Our class speciality is Debuffed. So why dont you throw out 40% debuffs to the other classes on their specialities?
GF - 40% Debuff to Shield block damage
CW - 40% Debuff to Control Effects
TR - 40% Debuff to Single Target Damage
And then make them situational so they only effect YOU, but not others, then smile and say thanks
(NOTE - That is for argument purposes, I do not want any class nerfed.)
And Astral Shield in PvP does not even remotely make you invincible and removing the Debuff is not going to make it so, but at least let me play with out a DISADVANTAGE that is built into the class.
It does happen. DPS Clerics are insane! Super glass cannons.
I have yet to see a Cleric even be close to topping DPS at 60. It can't happen, our scaling is too low. Even against a green geared rogue played by a 4 year old it would be hard to pull off.
Righteousness should probably only apply in PvP, because everywhere else there doesn't seem to be a good reason for it. Clerics often already take more damage in group PvE, so forcing them to use twice as many potions as anyone else makes little sense from a game design perspective. It also causes needless frustration and then leads to side effects like other players being unable to get T2 dungeons through LFG that have a working setup (no cleric).
As for leveling, well, my two clerics (re-rolled one after reading deistik's excellent guide) level much slower than my two CWs did, and they need more potions. My second wizard isn't even using the cleric companion. My rogue, also in that level range, slays monsters five times faster and also barely uses any potions.
Basically, Righteousness seems an unnecessary burden anywhere outside of PvP.
This is the whole point of this thread. This debuff is so detrimental to making someone fresh to the game want to continue to play a cleric. Never mind the busted *** agro for a minute, simply not being able to heal yourself (as the only healer in the game), is an absolute slap in our collective faces.
Dear Devoted One,
I have decided to reward your life long devotion to my person, and the causes that I stand for, by denying a great part of my healing power to you, and you alone.
Did my dorf farts cause you to nerf mah heals so may be I would just die?
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dukemanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
The only logical reason I can come up with for them not responding is the fact that they can't give a justifiable reason for the debuffs existance and therefore until they remove it won't respond,because its far easier to not face ones mistake then to provide the proper customer service response and respond to our inquiry.
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scarletttalonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited May 2013
What other mmo nerfs a healer's ability to stay alive and heal the party? Oh yeah, none that I've ever played and I always play a healer. Idiotic move.
Re-bumping. Not letting this go without an official's response.
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sadmummyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I had no idea about this debuff until I came across this post. I recently started leveling a cleric alt, but knowing this completly makes me not want to continue him. Not because it makes him UP or impossible to play. I just don't like it at all. The concept of this debuff is horrible imo. Even makes me want to level another alt instead
Agreed, I am shelving my cleric until some change is done, hopefully just out right getting rid of this at level 60/in groups
Though I really like being support/healing in games, so going to be hard to decide what to work on next. I wish we had that coming soon class already, heh. Although it seems like the only other viable classes are TR and Cw...soo
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banshisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
Still bumping the thread because I am waiting for a response on the debuff.
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
The problem, in my opinion, isn't the reduced self heals, it's the aggro mechanics.
In TERA, I play a priest, and most of a priests heals, including the heaviest one, don't work on yourself, your self heal had a 5 sec cd, so you don't really have as many tools to keep yourself alive as to keep others alive.
Yet it works beautifully.
Why?
Well, even a below average tank can keep aggro off a healer and in case the tank does lose a mob and it goes for the healer, a dps can easily peel it off the healer...
This reduced self healing wouldn't bother anyone if they matched the aggro mechanics.
As it stands, I'm shelfing this whole game and I'll check back occationally to see if the situation has improved.
Short of it is, no one cares if Cleric gets shafted, as long as it doesn't affect them.
The devs don't care probably either, given the ever dwindling number of cleric players. There is already a shortage of them, and it is getting worse every day.
If you're not going to work on the debuff at least work on the the aggro problem!
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kiojikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
I would like to see the numbers behind what player type buys the most Health Stones, I bet its the Cleric. You soon realize 8.5k healing potion is not going to save you, but hey at least Righteousness doesnt apply to healing potions. See Devs you can do it Cut and paste some code.
Just the name of it makes my skin crawl. Trying to mask a Class Mechanic Debuff as - Righteousness??
So, if we were to call this by a proper name, what would it be?
Excommunication - due to your lack of faith and self doubt in your deity you suffer a 40% penalty to all healing effects.
on the upside if you have 2 or more clerics working together it makes the other cleric feel more useful cause the clerics can heal each other the debuff I believe is only on self healing. in a full group your more likely to have that 2nd healer.
The name is because the skill balanced the self healing/potion issue, making the game more fair for everybody else > righteousness. What is so hard to understand about it?, all it takes is a bit of common sense.
I think the DC "players", would like a tank, with massive dps that can keep it's own hp at 100% all of the time with heals. In other words, just another case of l2p something that is NOT overpowered. Ok, i know most of you can't or would not want to use a non fotm class, but imagine if you did, you'd soon be realizing how OP your other character really is... and that's the end of the story.
Peace.
What you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may the gods have mercy on your soul.
Righteousness is an incredibly stupid mechanic. There is no logical justification for a DC to heal themselves 40% less. It isn't a class balance issue because...well it's not like clerics do anything else exceptionally well besides AS. There isn't even a comparable mechanic for each of the classes to show just how stupid in comparison it is. It's like if TR had an buff that gave all allies 100% of their crit but they only get 60%. It either needs removed or clerics need to be compensated in some other fashion(CC's last 40% less).
Thats group play. He said he couldn't SOLO from 40-60.
That's somewhat unfortunate, and he probably needs to reroll TR, as solo works quite nicely. It's really not hard at all to level as a DC in this game. It's fairly frictionless compared to levelling as a healer in a ton of other MMOs, where it was a lot more work.
Now, the broken aggro reduction and the healing debuff, on the other hand, are crippling for group play, and just a sign of cack-handed game design and sloppy QA..
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noobiieeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
As said by Deistik, this isnt a class discussion this is a discussion about a unfair mechanic and besides that aggro bug that has to be fixed.
We all want a Dev response to this, too many threads ignored, get out of your caves and pay attention to the players that want an answer to this.
Comments
As for leveling, well, my two clerics (re-rolled one after reading deistik's excellent guide) level much slower than my two CWs did, and they need more potions. My second wizard isn't even using the cleric companion. My rogue, also in that level range, slays monsters five times faster and also barely uses any potions.
Basically, Righteousness seems an unnecessary burden anywhere outside of PvP.
Im level 60 and PvPed quite a bit and run my fair share of dungeons.
Why do I load up on 60 Potions??
Because Im bored? ,Because I have 1million gold that I have no use for?, Because I like talking to NPCs?
NO - because I run around like a nut chugging them.
In dungeons 95% of the time at the end score board Im #1 in damage taken.
Sooth - is a myth and does not work.
So im the tank, and you were so nice to tie one arm around my back.
Please remove our Class Feature DEBUFF. Our class speciality is Debuffed. So why dont you throw out 40% debuffs to the other classes on their specialities?
GF - 40% Debuff to Shield block damage
CW - 40% Debuff to Control Effects
TR - 40% Debuff to Single Target Damage
And then make them situational so they only effect YOU, but not others, then smile and say thanks
(NOTE - That is for argument purposes, I do not want any class nerfed.)
And Astral Shield in PvP does not even remotely make you invincible and removing the Debuff is not going to make it so, but at least let me play with out a DISADVANTAGE that is built into the class.
I have yet to see a Cleric even be close to topping DPS at 60. It can't happen, our scaling is too low. Even against a green geared rogue played by a 4 year old it would be hard to pull off.
This is the whole point of this thread. This debuff is so detrimental to making someone fresh to the game want to continue to play a cleric. Never mind the busted *** agro for a minute, simply not being able to heal yourself (as the only healer in the game), is an absolute slap in our collective faces.
16 pages.
No official answer.
Feeling ignored? Quite a lot.
I want this class in NW.
I have decided to reward your life long devotion to my person, and the causes that I stand for, by denying a great part of my healing power to you, and you alone.
Love,
Torm
That Debuff is totally stupid for any reason i can think about it.
Though I really like being support/healing in games, so going to be hard to decide what to work on next. I wish we had that coming soon class already, heh. Although it seems like the only other viable classes are TR and Cw...soo
In TERA, I play a priest, and most of a priests heals, including the heaviest one, don't work on yourself, your self heal had a 5 sec cd, so you don't really have as many tools to keep yourself alive as to keep others alive.
Yet it works beautifully.
Why?
Well, even a below average tank can keep aggro off a healer and in case the tank does lose a mob and it goes for the healer, a dps can easily peel it off the healer...
This reduced self healing wouldn't bother anyone if they matched the aggro mechanics.
As it stands, I'm shelfing this whole game and I'll check back occationally to see if the situation has improved.
The devs don't care probably either, given the ever dwindling number of cleric players. There is already a shortage of them, and it is getting worse every day.
If you're not going to work on the debuff at least work on the the aggro problem!
Just the name of it makes my skin crawl. Trying to mask a Class Mechanic Debuff as - Righteousness??
So, if we were to call this by a proper name, what would it be?
Excommunication - due to your lack of faith and self doubt in your deity you suffer a 40% penalty to all healing effects.
I do not see anything that resembles a 0.4 negative multiplier for self healing.
I'll just make a DPS cleric and not care.
I'll take 500% less threat and being able to heal myself for the same amount I can heal my ally 10ft from me for $500, Alex.
Seriously, give me .00001 DPS as long as I can heal myself... since I'm a healer. What's so hard to understand about it?
^ this, over and over.
What you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may the gods have mercy on your soul.
That's somewhat unfortunate, and he probably needs to reroll TR, as solo works quite nicely. It's really not hard at all to level as a DC in this game. It's fairly frictionless compared to levelling as a healer in a ton of other MMOs, where it was a lot more work.
Now, the broken aggro reduction and the healing debuff, on the other hand, are crippling for group play, and just a sign of cack-handed game design and sloppy QA..
We all want a Dev response to this, too many threads ignored, get out of your caves and pay attention to the players that want an answer to this.