1. Not to upset about the rollback, while it may inconvenienced some it will help with the economy.
2. Remember this game is still in open beta so we are really at the disposal of what happens. As long as purchased items are given back after a rollback/reset, I see no problem with it. They can wipe characters and restart the world for all I care during the beta.
3. Yes I have purchased yen and leveled a few characters so I'm not just some guy who wont lose much
4. I thank them for being open about the downtime and the exploit and doing their best to fix it when it came to light.
5. This game is fun and I intend to stick through it to full release, even if that means losing some hard work and what not.
The issue was this 'issue' came to light a few months ago and they did nothing about it until just now.
fallenweebleMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
This 7 hour rollback won't solve the problem. This exploit has been going on since day one. All this does is punish the masses that found out while having the ones that have done it since day one a free pass.
Terrible job guys. The millions of AD that were exploited before 5am will still be out there and will still trash the economy.
0
fattynicksMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
IP bans, except in a few limited instances, aren't much of a solution now days.
Heck, they weren't even that great back in the AOL days.
7
IP bans are never effective. Hardly any home internet providers use static IP addresses, and even on services like FiOS where you are limited in the number of releases and capture of new IP's (you can still click "release IP" and it goes through the motions you just get the same IP back), you can go into router settings and spoof a different MAC addy and get a new IP.
IP Bans can also have a negative impact, since once that IP gets released by the banned person, another person is likely to obtain that IP address once the lease on it runs out (generally a 12 or 24 hour lease that is renewed as long as the router/modem is active on the other end) This makes any IP bans temporary as you don't want to make people just starting out on your game unable to enter the game.
@ Banning public proxies: Proxies are not an issue. You don't need a proxy to get around an IP ban in most situations. Proxies are also used legitimately by many people to get around imposed rules about connection usage. (such as a school banning instant messaging)
The only real course of action is to actually fix the problems, delete/ban the accounts responsible, and put the servers back up. Those people will likely either make new accounts, then play legit until they discover another loophole to exploit, or they will move on to another game that wasn't programmed correctly and exploit that to make money from it.
At any rate, there IS NO reliable method of permanently banning a person from any sort of internet service. You can say your name is something else, you can change IP addresses, spoof mac addresses (its even built into windows...), and even in the extreme case of banning by hardware ID, those can be spoofed or modified as well. Hell even if the person is making enough money on it they'll just buy a new cheap PC at wal-mart that handles the game well enough to exploit it and make money.
I'd just like to thank everyone at Cryptic for being so dedicated to getting this fixed. I'd also like to thank personally whoever is in charge of the Neverwinter twitter and facebook for constantly being around to answer questions and concerns all day and night.
A+ customer care and probably the best solution to this problem
I second that!!!!!!! A+
0
torvinaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
oh and thank you for all the work and thank you for the small roll back better to have that than starting completely over!!!!!!
My friend who exploited this since day 2 of open beta can keep his 2.3 billion AD and keep selling it to the gold-farming sites.
He already made $8700
Well... They say they are handling your friend and others on a one by one kind of thing. He gets special treatment. He should feel lucky. Tell him to wear his best suit when the police come.
Hey All - A quick heads-up. The servers may be brought up without an ETA posted prior. If this occurs we will let you know when they are up. his quote from twitter feed.
First I want to say thank you for all this hard work, and, more importantly (-much- more importantly), for keeping us updated all the while. I have a question as well, though.
Personally, not bothering too much with the AH, I didn't even recognise the problem at first. But, based on reports of others, it has been going on for a much longer time... So, do you really think it will be solved by a mere rollback of seven hours? I'm not criticising, I merely want to understand your way of thinking this through...
They are not just doing a 7 hour rollback. They are also taking action against any accounts that used this exploit prior to that. They already answered this in the FAQ. It's just that the vast majority of the exploiting happened during that 7 hour period.
People who are pathetically whining about quitting because they are only doing a 7 hour rollback should simply move on. It's getting tiresome. You can't appease everyone and there were a very small number of people quietly doing this prior to then and 99.9% of the community knew nothing about it and said nothing about it and are still *****ing about not rolling back far enough or wiping the servers. Buck up. It isn't all about you. Granted there were other snafus that should have been addressed but they didn't completely destroy the economy, they simply created a greater supply than demand.
Here's what I've noticed so far about this gaming community: People want the game to be wiped, refunds etc.. People responding to this saying it's ridiculous.. People actually using real money on a FREE TO PLAY GAME (wow just wow) and complain when <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hits the fan. Personally, you people who got SCREWED with your real money should blame yourselves. The only ones I feel bad about are the ones who played the game legit and leveled to 60 or relevant to this ordeal. THE DEV'S ARE NOT DUMB, THEY ARE WISE... THEY KNEW THIS BUG HAS HAPPENED WAY BEFORE EVEN CLOSED BETA. They're just smiling upon you all to those who actually spent real money. I bet with any dumb luck that this was an inside job, and the company is too embarrassed to release a real statement or something similar to this equation. Anyways, to end this comment.. CAN YOU ADMINS ACTUALLY PUT THE SERVER UP!!! I just want to play the game period... CLOSE THE AH or Zen purchase or anything to do with real money for the time being... BUT NOT THE SERVER!! *******!!! This is actually the first MMO game I've enjoyed since World of Warcraft Vanilla days...
This 7 hour rollback won't solve the problem. This exploit has been going on since day one. All this does is punish the masses that found out while having the ones that have done it since day one a free pass.
Terrible job guys. The millions of AD that were exploited before 5am will still be out there and will still trash the economy.
You prefer rolling back approximately 1 day or all the way when the game just started its open beta? As far as I understand, it got worse from the past 7hrs. Eventually all the things will get balanced, just give it some time.
0
yarrenzeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
There is no point in perma-bans, game is f2p, they can just make another account. Multi-accounts are a common thing in PW games. Even the IP ban is pointless, since most of the people have dynamic IP. I'm glad that you finally decided to make some sort of action. What troubles me is that an 7 hour rollback is not enough, but I guess you'd loose more players if there were a 2 day rollback. You better focus on fixing issues now, and in much quicker pace. I hope you'll take this as a warning. No matter how good you are at developing games, there will always be someone equal (if not better) at using your mistakes in their favor. In that manner, I'm thankful for those that abused your faulty system, and that they've stirred up things a bit in the Cryptic and PW staff. Hopefully you will start taking your job more seriously now and show more respect to the players, which are your market and essentially the reason you still have your jobs.
I appreciate the server rollback, even as short as it is. I hope that you will restrain yourselves from doing similar things in the future. Take care of the problems once they have been reported, not when they escalate into something big like this. You're not a garage studio, nor this is just "another f2p MMO". This is Neverwinter, a game that was favorite of many, and even the very first RPG they played. Even though this game itself doesn't have much in common with original Neverwinter Nights series, you should at least pay more respect to its name and fame. After all, many of the players started playing it because of its name.
Sincerely, Yarrenze.
Maybe PWE and Cryptic might ask for the kind help of the CCP (i.e. EVE Online) economists. They seem to be very accomplished on making plans to fix MMO economies. lol
Well... They say they are handling your friend and others on a one by one kind of thing. He gets special treatment. He should feel lucky. Tell him to wear his best suit when the police come.
well... They say they are handling your friend and others on a one by one kind of thing. He gets special treatment. He should feel lucky. Tell him to wear his best suit when the police come.
Awesome job PW and Cryptic!! I am much happier with a 7 hour rollback than to have it all wiped away!So those of you who are complaining about the game...It could be far worse.
Haven's Point- Not just another guild! We are a community, a town...a family!
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
For all we know 7 hours could be is as far back as their backups go:)
wipe tha game refund any legit zen and start the **** game allover simple as that
0
stockloreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
U guys saying stop QQing its a beta are crazy they can call it a beta all they want to but how many beta;s do they start selling stuff for real world money i mean there is no wipe and bugs fixes exploits can go on for years what are they beta testing the credit card machines ? They are playing to whole thing down to try and keep player base but i still love the game and will play
Just keep in mind that: most exploits/codes/hacks shares,come from within the group that ran/made the game to begin with. If someone got rich from the inside, that wouldn't surprise me at all. Since tickets were deliberately disapearing for months!
Hmmm... might want to check that one out huh. -.o
Ya all transactions can be tracked, but pwe dosent have the resources to do it. This is not Blizzard that has pretty much unlimited funds to maintain the game.
Due to the mechanic of the exploit, it is very easy to track and can be automatically reversed. This kind of bug should never have made it to the beta level. But I do know how code changes; no matter how minute, can have far reaching, devastating, and unpredictable results. That is why things like magic numbers and boundary values should be included in all Build Verification Test passes before updating to any and all publically facing environments.
Quickly and appropriately, in the FAQ on this subject, they said they are going to get more than just those abusing in the last 7 hours. So fear not, I am sure there will/is a script to identify all users who used this bug and punt them and recall all funds they created via the bug.
I will say every single RPG I have tested has had this kind of bug in it. So I am surprised it wasn't part of the original, daily test plan.
0
greymasqueMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Oh, please enlighten me, since you apparently know all.
One can be sued for violation of contract for digital media. Microsoft has proven this multiple times.
Hacking (at least with malicious intent) is illegal in most countries, and most certainly in the US - where Cryptic is located.
Profiting from exploitation of bugs is most definitely a breach of contract (i.e. the NW EULA).
Ya all transactions can be tracked, but pwe dosent have the resources to do it. This is not Blizzard that has pretty much unlimited funds to maintain the game.
They can temporarily borrow the resources from a specialized company to do their stuff... Of course they can have the resources to do it. And it would cost far less than what they're gonna lose with this whole story.
Comments
The issue was this 'issue' came to light a few months ago and they did nothing about it until just now.
Terrible job guys. The millions of AD that were exploited before 5am will still be out there and will still trash the economy.
IP bans are never effective. Hardly any home internet providers use static IP addresses, and even on services like FiOS where you are limited in the number of releases and capture of new IP's (you can still click "release IP" and it goes through the motions you just get the same IP back), you can go into router settings and spoof a different MAC addy and get a new IP.
IP Bans can also have a negative impact, since once that IP gets released by the banned person, another person is likely to obtain that IP address once the lease on it runs out (generally a 12 or 24 hour lease that is renewed as long as the router/modem is active on the other end) This makes any IP bans temporary as you don't want to make people just starting out on your game unable to enter the game.
@ Banning public proxies: Proxies are not an issue. You don't need a proxy to get around an IP ban in most situations. Proxies are also used legitimately by many people to get around imposed rules about connection usage. (such as a school banning instant messaging)
The only real course of action is to actually fix the problems, delete/ban the accounts responsible, and put the servers back up. Those people will likely either make new accounts, then play legit until they discover another loophole to exploit, or they will move on to another game that wasn't programmed correctly and exploit that to make money from it.
At any rate, there IS NO reliable method of permanently banning a person from any sort of internet service. You can say your name is something else, you can change IP addresses, spoof mac addresses (its even built into windows...), and even in the extreme case of banning by hardware ID, those can be spoofed or modified as well. Hell even if the person is making enough money on it they'll just buy a new cheap PC at wal-mart that handles the game well enough to exploit it and make money.
Action plan implementation commencing. SOON
I second that!!!!!!! A+
Well... They say they are handling your friend and others on a one by one kind of thing. He gets special treatment. He should feel lucky. Tell him to wear his best suit when the police come.
Who is looking out for the economy! Think of the poor economy!
First I want to say thank you for all this hard work, and, more importantly (-much- more importantly), for keeping us updated all the while. I have a question as well, though.
Personally, not bothering too much with the AH, I didn't even recognise the problem at first. But, based on reports of others, it has been going on for a much longer time... So, do you really think it will be solved by a mere rollback of seven hours? I'm not criticising, I merely want to understand your way of thinking this through...
That's because most players who care about the game don't care about compensation, they just want a working game with a working economy.
If PW can deliver that, that will be compensation enough.
If the only way to deliver that is a wipe then so be it.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
They are not just doing a 7 hour rollback. They are also taking action against any accounts that used this exploit prior to that. They already answered this in the FAQ. It's just that the vast majority of the exploiting happened during that 7 hour period.
You prefer rolling back approximately 1 day or all the way when the game just started its open beta? As far as I understand, it got worse from the past 7hrs. Eventually all the things will get balanced, just give it some time.
I appreciate the server rollback, even as short as it is. I hope that you will restrain yourselves from doing similar things in the future. Take care of the problems once they have been reported, not when they escalate into something big like this. You're not a garage studio, nor this is just "another f2p MMO". This is Neverwinter, a game that was favorite of many, and even the very first RPG they played. Even though this game itself doesn't have much in common with original Neverwinter Nights series, you should at least pay more respect to its name and fame. After all, many of the players started playing it because of its name.
Sincerely, Yarrenze.
If you give me 8700 you can ban me too.
bwahahahahahaha.
Haven's Point- Not just another guild! We are a community, a town...a family!
Hmmm... might want to check that one out huh. -.o
I'll take a piece of that action!
Due to the mechanic of the exploit, it is very easy to track and can be automatically reversed. This kind of bug should never have made it to the beta level. But I do know how code changes; no matter how minute, can have far reaching, devastating, and unpredictable results. That is why things like magic numbers and boundary values should be included in all Build Verification Test passes before updating to any and all publically facing environments.
Quickly and appropriately, in the FAQ on this subject, they said they are going to get more than just those abusing in the last 7 hours. So fear not, I am sure there will/is a script to identify all users who used this bug and punt them and recall all funds they created via the bug.
I will say every single RPG I have tested has had this kind of bug in it. So I am surprised it wasn't part of the original, daily test plan.
Oh, please enlighten me, since you apparently know all.
One can be sued for violation of contract for digital media. Microsoft has proven this multiple times.
Hacking (at least with malicious intent) is illegal in most countries, and most certainly in the US - where Cryptic is located.
Profiting from exploitation of bugs is most definitely a breach of contract (i.e. the NW EULA).
I don't know why you think none of this is true.
They can temporarily borrow the resources from a specialized company to do their stuff... Of course they can have the resources to do it. And it would cost far less than what they're gonna lose with this whole story.