Food for what thought? Both are stealing. "Same could be said for the old lady that shoplifts from the grocery store, except usually is the grocer that worries. Food for thought".
Obviously you aren't getting my point then. In the same example, it would be customers worrying the shoplifter got stuff they had to pay for.
Still doesn't inject more than what normally is possible. Sure people that don't max 24k daily might earn some more AD, but it's not in the number that causes problems like we have now. The problem is people started with 600k to 2600k AD. That is the problem. Not that someone had it easier to get 24k one day..
Firstly it doesn't matter what is possible, what matters is what happens, and the fact is that during a double AD event more gets generated and Cryptic is well aware of it. Secondly, I was never talking about what the problem was but rather if Cryptic thinks it is a problem, which they don't appear to since they are willing to do double AD events.
Obviously you aren't getting my point then. In the same example, it would be customers worrying the shoplifter got stuff they had to pay for.
Not really sure you have a point. You're just making random analogies and saying "food for thought" as if you contributed something. BUT in the grocery store example, it would ACTUALLY be the customers getting angry, because the grocer is allowing the shoplifting to happen while still making the majority of customers pay for it.
Firstly it doesn't matter what is possible, what matters is what happens, and the fact is that during a double AD event more gets generated and Cryptic is well aware of it. Secondly, I was never talking about what the problem was but rather if Cryptic thinks it is a problem, which they don't appear to since they are willing to do double AD events.
On hindsight, it would benefit people who didn't exploit more than people who did. Which I would think is actually a good thing.
Not really sure you have a point. You're just making random analogies and saying "food for thought" as if you contributed something. BUT in the grocery store example, it would ACTUALLY be the customers getting angry, because the grocer is allowing the shoplifting to happen while still making the majority of customers pay for it.
I've never heard of this happening either, or in a slightly similar scenario, if the grocer lets family/friends have things free. (note: NOT implying the exploiters are in any way related to Cryptic/PWE)
EDIT: the only example otherwise I can think off, is incidentally game related, when Valve released TF2 for free.
Or to further elaborate: People who paid lost nothing of value. The only thing that's changed is the perceived difference in value. PWE/Cryptic ought to be the one who's concerned, since exploiters obtains items which they could've made money out of.
Whatever...
Not going to happen.
They won't ban anyone nor will they wipe anything, there is no benefit in them doing that. If they ban people using the exploit then they will just lose those playerbase, so they will not ban anyone. They will not wipe anybody as they had already stated it at the start, if they wipe then they will have to refund all the zen back to the players, not going to happen.
Technically that's 24k per character. So, that's 48k on an unupgrade account, and more if someone makes multiple accounts. (note: not a suggestion for people to make multiple accounts, just stating)
The posibility of having time to max 2x characters daily limit is slim. And even if you do, 48k is nothing compared to 2600K. The problem is not the daily limit and if you max it, but the fact that they started off with giving away founder AD. That screwd the ecenomy. If people max their daily limit won't screw it at all, it's not even the same as having thousands of players starting with millions of AD.
Firstly it doesn't matter what is possible, what matters is what happens, and the fact is that during a double AD event more gets generated and Cryptic is well aware of it. Secondly, I was never talking about what the problem was but rather if Cryptic thinks it is a problem, which they don't appear to since they are willing to do double AD events.
The ammount of AD that gets generated during double AD weekend won't cause the problems we're seeing now. That's part of the system. The problem was that thousands of people started out with millions of AD. That and add all the exploits screwd the economy. The inject of AD you see daily is not a problem at all, and that's not what I'm saying..
It does because during a double AD event everyone does their dailies and maxes out while normally they don't. And why would they run one at all if they thought there was too much AD in the economy? Doesn't make sense.
Still doesn't inject more AD. There's still the daily limit of 24k, nothing has changed. If they increased the daily limit then they would inject more AD. All they did was make it easier to acquire unrefined AD, nothing else. And that's not the problem. The problem is still the founder ad we all started with, that's what screwd up the economy. Nothing wrong with the normal system to acquire AD and if they do double AD then it won't really matter in the large scale, not like starting off with millions of AD.
I have been playing since the game released. I honestly have never run into a single bug. Or broken quest, or lost item or any bugs what so ever.
The only bug I have seen is the QQ bug in the forums.
List of bugs and flawed game design top of my head
-Temple spider boss- pull through door, ignore half of adds
-Ice cave boss- When he dies, adds keep respawning
-Guardian Fighter Set bonus stacking - Making them one shot enemies.
-Cleric Aggro - Remains even after death
-Guardian Fighter - threat generation not working
-Control wizard- Half of the feats not working
-PvP - No Diminishing return, no penalties for being afk, the reward is FAR greater than the time spent.
-Itemization - boring and flawed. Many items look alike in stats. No variety.
-Dungeon Queue- Horrible, Tier 2 should always have a cleric and if the queue can't find any then 5 random dps are popped together.
-Dungeon Quality of Life - Disconnecting or rebooting your game client in a Dungeon sets you back to the start, where you sometimes face respawns and also waste huge amount of time walking back. WTF is that really?
-Performance - The game is optimized badly. Advertised as recommended; GeForce 8800 or ATI Radeon HD 2900GT performance or better, 512MB+ video ram. Yet for some miraculous reasons, i can't run this game smooth in a 5 men dungeon during fights with my 680 evga classified and 3770k processor
While the list is not big and things could be added, they contribute to such a bad experience of playing a really good game. It's just sad that PWE owns it and not any other decent company.
I've never heard of this happening either, or in a slightly similar scenario, if the grocer lets family/friends have things free. (note: NOT implying the exploiters are in any way related to Cryptic/PWE)
Of course it didn't happen, because a company would be stupid to allow someone to steal something rather than paying for it like everyone else.
And there IS actual value in an economy. Even a virtual economy. Even more so in one where real money is involved. I would be in favor of a wipe and refund of Zen that was purchased with cash, which people can use to buy their stuff back. People who won a mount/companion in nightmare box should be given one again. All is fair then. Only thing lost is time spent playing (which isnt much as it takes about 3 days to max level by questing), and the game/economy wont be broken. (This should of course be after all the bugs/exploits are fixed)
GF threat generation is working perfectly. How the threat generation is designed however, is questionable. Not a bug, questionable design. I've also never noticed respawns in dungeons...
The ammount of AD that gets generated during double AD weekend won't cause the problems we're seeing now. That's part of the system. The problem was that thousands of people started out with millions of AD. That and add all the exploits screwd the economy. The inject of AD you see daily is not a problem at all, and that's not what I'm saying..
But you are completely misunderstanding what I have been saying. It's not that a double AD event injects a huge amount, although I think it might be more than you believe. What matters is that they were willing to run one. If they thought the amount of AD in the economy was a real issue why on earth would they do something that can only compound the problem? It makes zero sense at all, and that tells me that they are probably happy with the situation. Not to mention that the packs are still being sold. I expect to see even more events and packages further down the line to keep AD cheap.
Just to clarify that I actually agree with you, it is a bad thing for the game. It might not be a bad thing for their bottom line though.
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draanoonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
It has already been announced and again very recently confirmed that there will be no char wipe.
But you are still completely misunderstanding what I have been saying. It's not that a double AD event injects a huge amount, although I think it might be more than you believe. What matters is that they were willing to run one. If they thought the amount of AD in the economy was a real issue why on earth would they do something that can only compound the problem? It makes zero sense at all, and that tells me that they are probably happy with the situation. Not to mention that the packs are still being sold. I expect to see even more events and packages further down the line to keep AD cheap.
Just to clarify that I actually agree with you, it is a bad thing for the game. It might not be a bad thing for their bottom line though.
Or that they see the problem differently than you. The problem is NOT with the large amount of AD in the economy, but that all those AD is shared among an elite few. Double AD events has no benefit to exploiters, but benefits all the people who plays normally.
EDIT: exploiters defined as people who exploit methods to farm AD. Not the other types of exploiters.
@NeverwinterGame will there be a wipe after open beta? will items purchased with zen disappear after the wipe?
They can wipe at any time. Even after saying they won't in a twitter. Just could mean the admins haven't decided or communicated with the Twitter moderators, so they are still going on old info. (Not saying they will wipe, just saying don't believe everything your told. Gaming companies are notorious for going back on their word)
The P2W/Zen Market combo has really soured this game from ever being what I'd call a long-term MMORPG home; but a character wipe would probably hasten my departure quite a bit sooner. It must really be frustrating for Cryptic to have seen so many exploits get through the testing process, but what else can you do now besides try and manage the damage as best as you can?
Separate suggestion: Legacy and new servers. No wipe, new servers would have all founder benefits and purchased account slots. People can opt to play in legacy servers, or play in the new one.
They can wipe at any time. Even after saying they won't in a twitter. Just could mean the admins haven't decided or communicated with the Twitter moderators, so they are still going on old info. (Not saying they will wipe, just saying don't believe everything your told. Gaming companies are notorious for going back on their word)
Well based on the record of PW - since they never done a char wipe in/after open beta - waht is more likely to happen:
1. Char wipe
2. No wipe
Of course anything can happen. Maybe tomorrow the world blows up! The end is near!
Based on the available data the most likely event will be that: No char wipe.
But you are completely misunderstanding what I have been saying. It's not that a double AD event injects a huge amount, although I think it might be more than you believe. What matters is that they were willing to run one. If they thought the amount of AD in the economy was a real issue why on earth would they do something that can only compound the problem? It makes zero sense at all, and that tells me that they are probably happy with the situation. Not to mention that the packs are still being sold. I expect to see even more events and packages further down the line to keep AD cheap.
Just to clarify that I actually agree with you, it is a bad thing for the game. It might not be a bad thing for their bottom line though.
Then you haven't read what I previously read. Already said, they don't care.. There's numerous bugs in the game that they know about but hasn't fixed, there's numerous exploits in the game that hasn't been fixed either. If they cared about the economy (which I'm saying they don't the whole point of me posting here) then they should've fixed it. The exploits and the founder ad are destroying the economy.
That + the fact they gave founders a hugh ammount of AD has screwd over the economy big time. The ammount of AD you can earn daily, even with double AD event won't make you as a player earn the ammount you need (it will take years with the current system just to slot your char and companion with enchants and convenience items) and that's what matters. Sure you can buy a founder pack, but having to pay $60 to $200 once just to be able to enjoy the game a short while until your broke again is stupid and then the game isn't really free to play..
The problem with the exploits is basicly it makes it hard to earn AD outside the daily limit. The AH prices are dropping more and more because items are being flodded there, and now profession items aswell. Then add the fact that you need hundreds of thousands and even million of AD to slot your character and companion with enchants doesn't boed well..
All they really need to do is fix the exploits, remove the AD + items that was gained with the exploits and then think about removing AD from the founder packs and swapping it for ZEN.. Then maybe, take a look at some AD prices for enchanting, mount books and companions..
They would have to credit my visa 500+ dollars I spent on this game, not just me but everyone else like me that has spent quite a bit of monies into the game.
Please stop for a second, and put your thinking cap on... do you seriously believe that they will give wipe and give everyones money back?
They would have to credit my visa 500+ dollars I spent on this game, not just me but everyone else like me that has spent quite a bit of monies into the game.
Please stop for a second, and put your thinking cap on... do you seriously believe that they will give wipe and give everyones money back?
Didn't think so either.
They won't wipe anything, that's for sure, but it would be for the best if they did and all they would have to do is refund the ZEN. Then you could respend it on whatever you want. Oh and while they are at it they should also go ahead and remove AD from the founder packs and patch all the exploits then let people earn AD the way it's intended to be earnt.
They would have to credit my visa 500+ dollars I spent on this game, not just me but everyone else like me that has spent quite a bit of monies into the game.
Please stop for a second, and put your thinking cap on... do you seriously believe that they will give wipe and give everyones money back?
Didn't think so either.
If you had your thinking cap on you would realise they would just do what they did in the Beta Weekends and refund the Zen spent and not refund the actual money. Not that I think they will do a wipe or actually do anything about this.
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empodoriMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
If you had your thinking cap on you would realise they would just do what they did in the Beta Weekends and refund the Zen spent and not refund the actual money. Not that I think they will do a wipe or actually do anything about this.
because ZEN = time spent right?
All that would do is make banks very angry with all the chargebacks happening at once.
All that would do is make banks very angry with all the chargebacks happening at once.
No, because Zen = Money spent (they wouldnt let you keep the AD traded to Zen, just like they didnt let you keep that from BW -> OB).
Who cares if a greedy bank gets angry? If people want to do chargebacks they might just do it over this issue anyway so I dont see the issue with it. People do chargebacks all the time for whatever reason.
lol, yes they would because that would be the first thing I do when **** like this happen.
Then what you would want at that point is a total refund, something you never said in your posts. If they do a reroll/wipe they would just reroll all the ZEN you've bought and if you would want a refund at that point then yes, only THEN would the banks be involved.
Comments
Obviously you aren't getting my point then. In the same example, it would be customers worrying the shoplifter got stuff they had to pay for.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Firstly it doesn't matter what is possible, what matters is what happens, and the fact is that during a double AD event more gets generated and Cryptic is well aware of it. Secondly, I was never talking about what the problem was but rather if Cryptic thinks it is a problem, which they don't appear to since they are willing to do double AD events.
Not really sure you have a point. You're just making random analogies and saying "food for thought" as if you contributed something. BUT in the grocery store example, it would ACTUALLY be the customers getting angry, because the grocer is allowing the shoplifting to happen while still making the majority of customers pay for it.
I've never heard of this happening either, or in a slightly similar scenario, if the grocer lets family/friends have things free. (note: NOT implying the exploiters are in any way related to Cryptic/PWE)
EDIT: the only example otherwise I can think off, is incidentally game related, when Valve released TF2 for free.
Or to further elaborate: People who paid lost nothing of value. The only thing that's changed is the perceived difference in value. PWE/Cryptic ought to be the one who's concerned, since exploiters obtains items which they could've made money out of.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Not going to happen.
They won't ban anyone nor will they wipe anything, there is no benefit in them doing that. If they ban people using the exploit then they will just lose those playerbase, so they will not ban anyone. They will not wipe anybody as they had already stated it at the start, if they wipe then they will have to refund all the zen back to the players, not going to happen.
Keep dreaming.
Kind Regards,
3 Level 60's
The posibility of having time to max 2x characters daily limit is slim. And even if you do, 48k is nothing compared to 2600K. The problem is not the daily limit and if you max it, but the fact that they started off with giving away founder AD. That screwd the ecenomy. If people max their daily limit won't screw it at all, it's not even the same as having thousands of players starting with millions of AD.
The ammount of AD that gets generated during double AD weekend won't cause the problems we're seeing now. That's part of the system. The problem was that thousands of people started out with millions of AD. That and add all the exploits screwd the economy. The inject of AD you see daily is not a problem at all, and that's not what I'm saying..
Still doesn't inject more AD. There's still the daily limit of 24k, nothing has changed. If they increased the daily limit then they would inject more AD. All they did was make it easier to acquire unrefined AD, nothing else. And that's not the problem. The problem is still the founder ad we all started with, that's what screwd up the economy. Nothing wrong with the normal system to acquire AD and if they do double AD then it won't really matter in the large scale, not like starting off with millions of AD.
List of bugs and flawed game design top of my head
-Temple spider boss- pull through door, ignore half of adds
-Ice cave boss- When he dies, adds keep respawning
-Guardian Fighter Set bonus stacking - Making them one shot enemies.
-Cleric Aggro - Remains even after death
-Guardian Fighter - threat generation not working
-Control wizard- Half of the feats not working
-PvP - No Diminishing return, no penalties for being afk, the reward is FAR greater than the time spent.
-Itemization - boring and flawed. Many items look alike in stats. No variety.
-Dungeon Queue- Horrible, Tier 2 should always have a cleric and if the queue can't find any then 5 random dps are popped together.
-Dungeon Quality of Life - Disconnecting or rebooting your game client in a Dungeon sets you back to the start, where you sometimes face respawns and also waste huge amount of time walking back. WTF is that really?
-Performance - The game is optimized badly. Advertised as recommended; GeForce 8800 or ATI Radeon HD 2900GT performance or better, 512MB+ video ram. Yet for some miraculous reasons, i can't run this game smooth in a 5 men dungeon during fights with my 680 evga classified and 3770k processor
While the list is not big and things could be added, they contribute to such a bad experience of playing a really good game. It's just sad that PWE owns it and not any other decent company.
And there IS actual value in an economy. Even a virtual economy. Even more so in one where real money is involved. I would be in favor of a wipe and refund of Zen that was purchased with cash, which people can use to buy their stuff back. People who won a mount/companion in nightmare box should be given one again. All is fair then. Only thing lost is time spent playing (which isnt much as it takes about 3 days to max level by questing), and the game/economy wont be broken. (This should of course be after all the bugs/exploits are fixed)
Mirror Ja'kreen
X'Tem
Active RPer
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
But you are completely misunderstanding what I have been saying. It's not that a double AD event injects a huge amount, although I think it might be more than you believe. What matters is that they were willing to run one. If they thought the amount of AD in the economy was a real issue why on earth would they do something that can only compound the problem? It makes zero sense at all, and that tells me that they are probably happy with the situation. Not to mention that the packs are still being sold. I expect to see even more events and packages further down the line to keep AD cheap.
Just to clarify that I actually agree with you, it is a bad thing for the game. It might not be a bad thing for their bottom line though.
Please see: https://twitter.com/NeverwinterGame
11. May 2013:
Derek Cope @ddc1225 11 Mai
@NeverwinterGame will there be a wipe after open beta? will items purchased with zen disappear after the wipe?
Neverwinter @NeverwinterGame 11 Mai
@ddc1225 no wipe at all!
So close this.
EDIT: exploiters defined as people who exploit methods to farm AD. Not the other types of exploiters.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
http://gyazo.com/5285ba74ef32661ad49a55b5939d1dfe.png
tell that to somone i know.
this is after 30 minutes of using damage exploits and resetting boss exploits.
he's been doing this for 3 days straight.
They can wipe at any time. Even after saying they won't in a twitter. Just could mean the admins haven't decided or communicated with the Twitter moderators, so they are still going on old info. (Not saying they will wipe, just saying don't believe everything your told. Gaming companies are notorious for going back on their word)
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Well based on the record of PW - since they never done a char wipe in/after open beta - waht is more likely to happen:
1. Char wipe
2. No wipe
Of course anything can happen. Maybe tomorrow the world blows up! The end is near!
Based on the available data the most likely event will be that: No char wipe.
End of submission.
Then you haven't read what I previously read. Already said, they don't care.. There's numerous bugs in the game that they know about but hasn't fixed, there's numerous exploits in the game that hasn't been fixed either. If they cared about the economy (which I'm saying they don't the whole point of me posting here) then they should've fixed it. The exploits and the founder ad are destroying the economy.
That + the fact they gave founders a hugh ammount of AD has screwd over the economy big time. The ammount of AD you can earn daily, even with double AD event won't make you as a player earn the ammount you need (it will take years with the current system just to slot your char and companion with enchants and convenience items) and that's what matters. Sure you can buy a founder pack, but having to pay $60 to $200 once just to be able to enjoy the game a short while until your broke again is stupid and then the game isn't really free to play..
The problem with the exploits is basicly it makes it hard to earn AD outside the daily limit. The AH prices are dropping more and more because items are being flodded there, and now profession items aswell. Then add the fact that you need hundreds of thousands and even million of AD to slot your character and companion with enchants doesn't boed well..
All they really need to do is fix the exploits, remove the AD + items that was gained with the exploits and then think about removing AD from the founder packs and swapping it for ZEN.. Then maybe, take a look at some AD prices for enchanting, mount books and companions..
Please stop for a second, and put your thinking cap on... do you seriously believe that they will give wipe and give everyones money back?
Didn't think so either.
They won't wipe anything, that's for sure, but it would be for the best if they did and all they would have to do is refund the ZEN. Then you could respend it on whatever you want. Oh and while they are at it they should also go ahead and remove AD from the founder packs and patch all the exploits then let people earn AD the way it's intended to be earnt.
If you had your thinking cap on you would realise they would just do what they did in the Beta Weekends and refund the Zen spent and not refund the actual money. Not that I think they will do a wipe or actually do anything about this.
because ZEN = time spent right?
All that would do is make banks very angry with all the chargebacks happening at once.
No, because Zen = Money spent (they wouldnt let you keep the AD traded to Zen, just like they didnt let you keep that from BW -> OB).
Who cares if a greedy bank gets angry? If people want to do chargebacks they might just do it over this issue anyway so I dont see the issue with it. People do chargebacks all the time for whatever reason.
There's no chargebacks with that... All that would happen is you would get the ZEN in your game wallet, nothing more.. No banks would be involved..
lol, yes they would because that would be the first thing I do when **** like this happen.
Then what you would want at that point is a total refund, something you never said in your posts. If they do a reroll/wipe they would just reroll all the ZEN you've bought and if you would want a refund at that point then yes, only THEN would the banks be involved.