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Unsure about continuing playing this game

w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
level 21 so far, playing GWF and have enjoyed the gameplay/areas immensely. The foundry is a amazing idea in my opinion for a games longevity. I even enjoy the semi cartoony artstyle.

But as i level i keep reading/hearing things about the cash shop...and it disheartens me.

For example first thing i heard were that special enchantsments you can farm at max level, have a abysmally low % chance to be fused, requiring a ward, that you have to purchase.

Then i get this sweet companion (cleric), shes awesome, loving it. find out she caps at 15, i havent seen anything about any other good healing companions, and i read that i can essentially level up the cleric higher, but it requires tomes, which again, are in the cash shop.

then there are these nightmare boxes, i understand there is nothing that i fundementally need in them, but making the only way to open them thru the cash shop is disheartening.

then unless ive been missing something bags seem to have to be gotten thru the cash shop.

Ive played free to play games with cash shops before. But this is rediculous. at no point should a **** bag be required from a cash shop.

"but you can by zen with AD" ya, at a abysmal exchange rate, and even then, the AD cap per day makes a obvious artifical barrier between you and what you want..

how much zen would it be to fill out my bags? max my cleric companion? and get 1 or 2 of those level 60 enchants working? how much money is that in real life? how much AD? how many days would it take to farm the required AD for all that?

so again, i love the mechanics, gameplay, level design, etc...but this cash shop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> might just force me out of the game, which is sad, cuz i think this game has the potential to not rely on such cheap tactics.

"cryptic needs to make money too" hey im not saying making it completly free, im just saying it needs to be more reasonable. like i said ive played games with cash shops before and their prices and what you paid for was much more reasonable, ive sunk anywhere between 20-60 bucks into those games on the basis that i tthought the game was good AND i felt i got my money's worth.

i do feel this game is good, but i dont feel id get my moneys worth in that shop, not by a long shot.
Post edited by w01fe01 on
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    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have been keeping track of the various threads here and my best guess at how much it costs to equip a character for endgame and you will need AT LEAST $50 per character:

    $20 for 2 bags
    $30 for an upgraded/purple companion (Ioun Stones/Cat are apparently the best at high levels)

    In addition you might well consider:

    $30-40 for a max speed mount (optional but nice - note that this is account wide)
    $10 each for the item that guarantees success for high level shard combines.

    I think the later is only really useful if you insist on playing the end-game raids ASAP before farming the best gear.
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    sagasaintsagasaint Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    agreed

    btw, some people will tell you that you can convert ADs to Zen by playing the game

    dont listen to them, they are idiots. even if you play every single day of the week, every single week of the month, and always always always cap your 24k ADs per day, it will take you 20 days for each 1000 zen item that you need. and beieve me, just for the wards your gonan need LOTs of them.


    if you consider than not every day you can play, and that not everyday you will get the 24k (actually I doubt the average casual player makes more than 10k per day) your looking, at the very least, at double that time.


    last but not least, factor in much better companions, bag/bank space/ respecs and mounts all for AD, and you have in front of you a multi-year grind


    if you dont have ANY money nor will to spend it, and you like this game, yep, go ahead and keep playing. not like you have many other options

    if you have money and are willing to spend it, but are concerned about getting the best bang for your bucks, this game is an all around bad deal in all fronts.

    unless you are dying to play this and only this, there are plenty other games out there that will make you feel your getting your money's worth
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    primejiveprimejive Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Personally, I think they should make a subscriber package available for those that would like one.

    When I play a game, I do it to think about the game. Not real world currency.
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    angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If these bother you that much, it's probably better to just move on and stop torturing yourself. Not trying to troll here, just trying to give good advice. The alternative is to ignore what you read and hear and just based your opinion on your own, personal experience, not what other's say.
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    labbblabbb Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    What would they add with a subscription ? You can do EVERY thing in this game for FREE . No fee for added levels , no fee to raid , no fee to use mail ect .
    If you play 7 days in a row you can get a free ruin combiner , from the celestial coin vendor . I already see a bunch on the auction house for only 100000 AD .
    You get bags following the quest line .
    And you don't NEED one of the ' takes no damage ' companions , even though I'm guessing they will help at level 60 dungeons .
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    primejive wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should make a subscriber package available for those that would like one.

    When I play a game, I do it to think about the game. Not real world currency.

    i would actually be ok with this tho i think itd be funky for them to work it.
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If these bother you that much, it's probably better to just move on and stop torturing yourself. Not trying to troll here, just trying to give good advice. The alternative is to ignore what you read and hear and just based your opinion on your own, personal experience, not what other's say.

    ive been trying (hence i went with GWF despite all the QQ about them, loving the class) but there is a big difference between "this class sucks" from being able to see yourself the cost of things and what those things are that you pay for.
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    caidencaiden Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If it helps, I'm level 60 with full purple Tier 1 and Tier 2 gear, and have over 3,000,000 AD from selling drops on the Auction House. I have yet to by Zen for anything but dye. It's possible. Don't worry about it.
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    grekthorangrekthoran Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 68
    edited May 2013
    primejive wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should make a subscriber package available for those that would like one.

    When I play a game, I do it to think about the game. Not real world currency.

    This is how I feel. I paid 60 for founders pack as I'm totally fine paying 60 for a good game. Starting in June I'm going to buy 15 worth of zen. I hope this is enough to keep my characters in bags and enchants and such, sort of making my own sub based model. I'm starting to think it won't be enough, but I hope it will.
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    labbb wrote: »
    What would they add with a subscription ? You can do EVERY thing in this game for FREE . No fee for added levels , no fee to raid , no fee to use mail ect .
    If you play 7 days in a row you can get a free ruin combiner , from the celestial coin vendor . I already see a bunch on the auction house for only 100000 AD .
    You get bags following the quest line .
    And you don't NEED one of the ' takes no damage ' companions , even though I'm guessing they will help at level 60 dungeons .

    for free is misleading, when you cap AD at 24k a day, and hte general price conversion of AD to zen is rediculous. the fact you said only 100k AD makes me /facepalm

    do you get more bags? like i said im only level 21 atm, only gotten one bag. and may banks full.

    im not looking for a takes no damage companion, i like the cleric, id like a max level ceric or something similar (that heals).

    im not looking for the whole game to be free, im looking for a more reasonable cash shop in terms of what they sell, and there prices. because i honestly think this game is good enough to not rely on such lame tactics.
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    lokaidraxmartislokaidraxmartis Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You can grind AD(astral diamonds) and exchange them for Zen... i think pack would cost around 1 mill AD? but you'd get a ton of AD i mean at lvl 16 almost got 10k AD easy... now i'm not defending the cash shop at all, but my issue with cash shop isn't wards, or anything like that because thats just f2p mmos that stuff is expected. The issue i have is the 40 dollar mounts/companions and the 10 dollar INVENTORY slots....

    Game is good i want it to do well... but i refuse to pay 10 bucks for bags....
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    tykytystykytys Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have no illusions about how seriously I'll take the game once I reach level 60. I also doubt seriously I'll be levelling a second character any time soon after I get my first to max level. The game's plenty enjoyable on a single playthrough, doing some Foundry quests along with the sole official quest line. I'll spend a few bucks on a costume or two along the way.

    But that'll be it. I don't expect to log in every day, or invoke a deity every hour, to maximize my astral diamond conversion ratio. The game's fine for what it is and, honestly, I appreciate the fact that they come right out and say it. It's a grinder, designed to get you to max level ASAP, where further grinding or expenditure of real cash is needed to continue progressing. It's a game that will have very little official content and where the players will be expected to shoulder the burden of creating new content for the devs. I'm glad they made that clear right from the get-go. There'll be no surprises.
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    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    sagasaint wrote: »
    dont listen to them, they are idiots. even if you play every single day of the week, every single week of the month, and always always always cap your 24k ADs per day, it will take you 20 days for each 1000 zen item that you need. and beieve me, just for the wards your gonan need LOTs of them.

    The cap is only for rough diamonds. You can sell items in the AH for ADs and these do not count against the cap. Naturally, trying to farm 24k rough diamonds a day is really not very efficient. I made 600k in a couple days by buying and re-selling items. Many people have no good idea yet of the value of things, so with a bit effort, you can probably make millions of ADs within a few weeks. You can also speculate with the AD/Zen exchange. Tips from Foundry Quests also do not count against the daily cap.

    Wolfe, don't listen to people who are either trolling (usually name calling is a sure sign) or deliberately or unintentionally spreading incorrect information. If you enjoy the game, play it. The content is free, future classes are free. Things like bags are useful, no doubt, but you get two large ones from quests. Neverwinter is far, far less restrictive than most F2Ps where you pay for content, level caps, etc.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    caiden wrote: »
    If it helps, I'm level 60 with full purple Tier 1 and Tier 2 gear, and have over 3,000,000 AD from selling drops on the Auction House. I have yet to by Zen for anything but dye. It's possible. Don't worry about it.

    how long do you think it took you to quire 3000000AD? at 24k a day thats 125 days!
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You can grind AD(astral diamonds) and exchange them for Zen... i think pack would cost around 1 mill AD? but you'd get a ton of AD i mean at lvl 16 almost got 10k AD easy... now i'm not defending the cash shop at all, but my issue with cash shop isn't wards, or anything like that because thats just f2p mmos that stuff is expected. The issue i have is the 40 dollar mounts/companions and the 10 dollar INVENTORY slots....

    Game is good i want it to do well... but i refuse to pay 10 bucks for bags....

    again i know you can exchange AD for zen, but the exchange rate is just sad right now, and doesnt change the fact that ZEN is overpriced in general in the store.
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    infi321infi321 Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    primejive wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should make a subscriber package available for those that would like one.

    When I play a game, I do it to think about the game. Not real world currency.

    I feel exactly the same way.

    Unfortunately, there are enough suckers out there that actually buy these respec tokens and bags from the shop that makes their shop go around.

    Im out of this game in a week or so when ive maxed 2 characters, I knew this was a short ride due to Perfect Worlds involvement. The only reason I bought the game was because of D&D.
    "Your story may not last forever; but it will exist forever"
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    The cap is only for rough diamonds. You can sell items in the AH for ADs and these do not count against the cap. Naturally, trying to farm 24k rough diamonds a day is really not very efficient. I made 600k in a couple days by buying and re-selling items. Many people have no good idea yet of the value of things, so with a bit effort, you can probably make millions of ADs within a few weeks. You can also speculate with the AD/Zen exchange. Tips from Foundry Quests also do not count against the daily cap.

    Wolfe, don't listen to people who are either trolling (usually name calling is a sure sign) or deliberately or unintentionally spreading incorrect information. If you enjoy the game, play it. The content is free, future classes are free. Things like bags are useful, no doubt, but you get two large ones from quests. Neverwinter is far, far less restrictive than most F2Ps where you pay for content, level caps, etc.

    im figuring in the very least ill get a char to 60 and see how i feel after that point. and ty for bringing up that its only rough astrals that cap at 24k a day. id love some form messeges from you on the AH strategy, ive just been selling gear i get but dont use.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2013
    I turn off zone chat and play and have fun with people I meet in dungeons and RL friends. Kind of sucks because I love being a social player but I can't enjoy the game with zone chat on.

    I have never, not once, felt any item was a requirement other than bags. That alone isn't enough for me to be upset.
    Most of the rants you hear are from people who want every single items in the shop, etc.

    There's no need for healthstones. None.
    There's no need to be on a prettier or rarer horse.

    There are ways to get more AD than 24K per day as Caiden mentioned...

    The system in place hurts people who can't manage their resources. I won't say it doesn't.
    But if you are even the slightest bit frivolous with your spending or stop worrying about kitting your character to the brim 150% of the time you can and do manage to play the game just fine.

    The game was designed to play without the consumables in the cash shop.
    That's what people complaining neglect. Yes you can spend a bunch of money on instant heal potions but you don't need them to do good.
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    sagasaintsagasaint Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    labbb wrote: »
    What would they add with a subscription ? You can do EVERY thing in this game for FREE . No fee for added levels , no fee to raid , no fee to use mail ect .
    allow you access to the top tier companions and mounts for gold, respecs for ingame gold, all bags and at the very least triple the current bank space. and a bit of monthly zen for a fraction of the cost...for example, a $15 sub could give you 1/3, that is, 500 zen on top of the other perks.

    if a month you dont sub,all that things become unusable until you sub again.
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    bunnypoopcerealbunnypoopcereal Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Disable horses in pvp or this game remains pay 2 win.
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    caidencaiden Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    w01fe01 wrote: »
    how long do you think it took you to quire 3000000AD? at 24k a day thats 125 days!

    I've been playing since the 27th...I made 1,000,000 AD today selling purples on the Auction House. Trust me guys, it's not hard to make money when you hit 60.
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    xxxretsopmixxxretsopmi Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    w01fe01 wrote: »
    for free is misleading, when you cap AD at 24k a day, and hte general price conversion of AD to zen is rediculous. the fact you said only 100k AD makes me /facepalm

    do you get more bags? like i said im only level 21 atm, only gotten one bag. and may banks full.

    im not looking for a takes no damage companion, i like the cleric, id like a max level ceric or something similar (that heals).

    im not looking for the whole game to be free, im looking for a more reasonable cash shop in terms of what they sell, and there prices. because i honestly think this game is good enough to not rely on such lame tactics.

    What makes me /facepalm is the simple fact that you, and others it seems, don't understand the difference between ROUGH AD and AD. Many things in the game give straight AD that DOESN'T need to be converted. The cap is only in place to stop other avenues of getting the ROUGH AD.

    I'm level 20 and have 30k AD. Remember that selling on the AH is AD not rough AD. Dailies are AD not rough AD. There are idols you can find that give ad. My brother is only 18 and has 200k ad because he spent 5$ and opened his nightmare chest and got 2 3 idols that turn in for 40k AD each. There are plenty of ways to get ad in this game. Sadly most people are just lazy and want to pay minimal amounts of money AND spend minimal amounts of time. Sorry, that isn't how F2P works. What you are looking for is a Free Ride game.
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    greveiousgreveious Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    All these posts are so funny to read...If you dont want to spend the money move on, if you dont have the money to spend, again, move on... There are so many mmos out there, f2p, p2p, p2w, and all those other denominations, find one you agree on the model and stick with it..

    Please for the love of god, they wont lower the prices, you cannot dictate the prices as you are not runing their business, the only thing you can do is simply "MOVE ON".
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    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    w01fe01 wrote: »
    how long do you think it took you to quire 3000000AD? at 24k a day thats 125 days!

    Again, 24k is the cap for refining rough diamonds. There is no cap for how many ADs you can earn from tips or the AH.

    Also keep in mind that this is not a charity event. They give you the whole game for free. A game that is of the same, if not higher, quality than $60 + $15/month games. If you want convenience stuff on top of that, like more bags (you get two large ones + the inventory for free) and somehow feel offended that you may have to spend some money for it to support the game, then you have the wrong expectations. It is not a game that is sponsored by the government or the parents.

    They even allow you to make cash store currency in the game, by playing, or by using the AH. Few other games offer you that as there is a zero option to get anything from their cash stores unless you pay dollars. If you think it takes too much effort, then you can support the game with money.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    bobzebrickbobzebrick Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This game is the biggest cash grab ever and it's a shame because it has a fairly enjoyable PvE side to it, if I wasn't restricted at every possible option. The PvP is terrible, no longevity here for me so as if I will spend those ridiculous prices in the zen store.
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    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    caiden wrote: »
    If it helps, I'm level 60 with full purple Tier 1 and Tier 2 gear, and have over 3,000,000 AD from selling drops on the Auction House. I have yet to by Zen for anything but dye. It's possible. Don't worry about it.

    This is good advice but remember right now a lot of founders have a large amount of AD and those items are relatively valuable. A time goes on both of these factors will change, and only the very top-end items will command significant AD amounts.
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    edge1986edge1986 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 647 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    See ya later.
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    mrz1mmersmrz1mmers Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I agree that PWE games in general try to make players a little too dependent on cash shop, but I've been playing PWE games for a long long time, since PWI was their only game, and I can tell you that you can get by just fine as a completely free user without ever spending a dime in the cash shop, and you can even have fun doing it....... The secret is, don't think about it, consider everything outside of cashshop as "the game", and everything in the cash shop as "extra <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that you don't need, but nice to have if you want to spend a few bucks", don't worry about what everyone else has, don't worry about what you don't have, just work with what you do have and have fun with it.... that is the secret to surviving a "freemium game" and deriving some enjoyment out of it, focus on the gameplay mechanics, the story, and the adventuring, and forget the cashshop entirely unless you feel like spending a few bucks.
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    w01fe01w01fe01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Again, 24k is the cap for refining rough diamonds. There is no cap for how many ADs you can earn from tips or the AH.

    Also keep in mind that this is not a charity event. They give you the whole game for free. A game that is of the same, if not higher, quality than $60 + $15/month games. If you want convenience stuff on top of that, like more bags (you get two large ones + the inventory for free) and somehow feel offended that you may have to spend some money for it to support the game, then you have the wrong expectations. It is not a game that is sponsored by the government or the parents.

    They even allow you to make cash store currency in the game, by playing, or by using the AH. Few other games offer you that as there is a zero option to get anything from their cash stores unless you pay dollars. If you think it takes too much effort, then you can support the game with money.

    firstly i didnt know the cap was soley for rough astrals, thankyou for that bit of info. secondly, i think people are only skimming my post and jumping on me like they do anyone else. im ok with cash shops for F2P games, i just dont agree with there model of it, putting imo too essential of items in the cash shop (mabye not entirely essnetial, but too essential nonetheless) and prices are a bit high.

    even then that wasnt the direct focus of my post, rather it was me worrying that id have to use the cash shop in its current form just to get by, at 21 i only have 4k astrals (all i do to make money is quests and sell items on AH that i find) and most of it has been from praying. ive spent maybe 1k thus far if that.
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    labbblabbb Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    w01fe01 wrote: »
    for free is misleading, when you cap AD at 24k a day, and hte general price conversion of AD to zen is rediculous. the fact you said only 100k AD makes me /facepalm

    do you get more bags? like i said im only level 21 atm, only gotten one bag. and may banks full.

    im not looking for a takes no damage companion, i like the cleric, id like a max level ceric or something similar (that heals).

    im not looking for the whole game to be free, im looking for a more reasonable cash shop in terms of what they sell, and there prices. because i honestly think this game is good enough to not rely on such lame tactics.

    You get another bag at the end of the cemetery quest line , I haven't found a third one yet . I'm almost through the tomb area .
    Your dailies give you 10k- 15k AD a day that don't count against the 24k rough diamonds .
    There is a FREE arch-angle healer once you played for 365 days . Its purple even so wont need to buy training books for it .
    I am finding the combat companions are good for leveling , but they really don't help in boss fights after a while. Hence I think the level 60 dungeons you might want one of the no-combat pets . I want the cat , and will get it soon almost to 1 million AD .
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