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Loot Rolls need some work.

agrias34agrias34 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
Since there no longer is a feedback section, here's a thread regarding the whole loot system of Need / Greed / Pass.

Before I being, I would like everyone to know that this is my opinion, it isn't considered correct, only what I feel would improve quality gameplay and the betterment of Neverwinter in my eyes. I would love for everyone reading this to also give their feedback regarding this issue and let Cryptic/PW know how you feel about this system and what could they do to improve it for the betterment of the game.


Here's the problem:

You're in a random group for the level 60+ epic dungeons which drop some nice purple gears. My last group for example, had 2 GWF's, 1 GF, 1 cleric and 1 rogue.
Whenever a nice purple item would drop for let's say, rogues, everyone, and I mean everyone in the group would roll NEED for the item. Why? Because they can sell it for astral diamonds on the marketplace. I've done 3 runs today in Cloak Tower epic, sort of the beginner dungeon for level 60's and not 1 person in any of those runs actually won gear suited for their class, it was ninja'd by some other class who couldn't use it, but only rolled NEED to be able to make profit from the item.

What I'm trying to get at is that there really should be no reason a class that cannot use a specific piece of gear have the ability to roll NEED for it. Only a rogue should be able to roll NEED on a rogue item, and would be forced to either GREED or PASS for everything else that isn't meant for a rogue.


Now, before a lot of you trolls and haters start posting negativity towards this, YES, I am aware that a common solution to this problem is Joining a guild and running with people and friends you trust. However, there are times where they aren't available, or you don't have time to do that, or you are just unsocial and incapable of joining a guild. Whatever the reason, it is asinine that other classes are essentially stealing gear from those that actually need it, so they can just make some small profit from selling it.


I would really love to hear what the community also has to say about this, and leave some constructive feedback or counterpoints on my argument so we can make Neverwinter a better place.


TL;DR Shouldn't be allowed to roll NEED on items you can't use.
Post edited by agrias34 on

Comments

  • tfangeltfangel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    agrias34 wrote: »
    Shouldn't be allowed to roll NEED on items you can't use.

    I agree, but i doubt it will happen. The other solution is to roll need yourself if you see people doing that. It's probably what others are doing, oh well. :P
  • agrias34agrias34 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 71
    edited May 2013
    tfangel wrote: »
    I agree, but i doubt it will happen. The other solution is to roll need yourself if you see people doing that. It's probably what others are doing, oh well. :P

    Ya, in which case I usually do, but still. Just want to hear what others have to say on the issue to see what we can do about it.
  • fireflydash1fireflydash1 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    agrias34 wrote: »
    ...
    What I'm trying to get at is that there really should be no reason a class that cannot use a specific piece of gear have the ability to roll NEED for it. Only a rogue should be able to roll NEED on a rogue item, and would be forced to either GREED or PASS for everything else that isn't meant for a rogue.
    ...

    I understand where you are coming from, and I know it well how such a need/greed/pass loot system works in MMOs: You either need on everything if you are with random people, as you assume they would do the same, and you dont want to loose out on loot. Or you run with people you know, and use the loot options correctly.

    Your suggested solution still raises 2 questions:

    - What if even the rogue would not wear the item, as he already got similar or better, and he is just taking it with rolling need for the exact reason you mentioned above, to sell it on the AH. Why should we give preference to him in this case?

    - Gearing up your alts? At the moment, the system doesnt limit this. Should we limit the ability of players to run a dungeon just to get gear for their other character?

    FF
  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I agree that needing on blue or purple drops should be limited to the classes that can actually use it. Or, at least, those classes should get a +50 to the roll.

    I have only had good groups so far where players rolled fairly, but that is luck, and it's with people who paid money.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
  • zmihaie80zmihaie80 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    if the item is for your class, including the general purpose items, you should be allowed to roll need/greed pass
    if the item is not for your class, you should only be allowed to roll greed/pass
  • ajemiaajemia Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    zmihaie80 wrote: »
    if the item is for your class, including the general purpose items, you should be allowed to roll need/greed pass
    if the item is not for your class, you should only be allowed to roll greed/pass

    yes, it should be like this
  • yarrmoryarrmor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    I think TERA has it the way you describe and it works fine. As you mentioned, I also have been in groups where people would need stuff they couldn't use. This definitely needs some change. Let this topic be heard!
  • vonthvonth Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 85
    edited May 2013
    Go farm gear with your guild or friends. That's why you are in a search for a good guild also.

    It's not safe as pugs.

    In soviet russia, loot rolls you.

    Regards~
  • xvxreaperxvx881xvxreaperxvx881 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I agree, blues and purples should only been able to be needed by the class that can use them.
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  • filcfilc Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    this topic again. :D The same topic over and over in every mmo. Simple solution ...

    If you want loot don't do dungeons with PUGs. It's simple as that.
  • yarrmoryarrmor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    filc wrote: »
    this topic again. :D The same topic over and over in every mmo. Simple solution ...

    If you want loot don't do dungeons with PUGs. It's simple as that.

    That may be, but we are allowed to, at least, expect some return from the devs on this issue. This is, and stays, a sensitive subject amongst many players.
  • dramdrumdramdrum Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 43
    edited May 2013
    Problem comes from purple gear being able to be sold in the auction house and not bind on acquire.

    I agree with being able to roll need for an item only if you can use it, by definition if you can't use it and are rolling it to sell it it is a greed roll.
  • elenoe8elenoe8 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    disagree. You only trying to solve one aspect on completele flaw system. The problem is not that someone loot red item. Next time you get upset that same class fellow looted 2 items and you got 0.

    You either need separate loot system or loot history (things already looted decreases the next rolls - system implemented by many communities needed fair loot).

    Until then, just find good guild or pay the price for random groups.
  • karone31karone31 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dramdrum wrote: »
    Problem comes from purple gear being able to be sold in the auction house and not bind on acquire.

    I agree with being able to roll need for an item only if you can use it, by definition if you can't use it and are rolling it to sell it it is a greed roll.

    /agree, this sais it all
  • heurouheurou Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Easy solution would be to make the items bound to character that drop in dungeons
  • yarrmoryarrmor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    heurou wrote: »
    Easy solution would be to make the items bound to character that drop in dungeons

    That wouldn't make people who can't use it roll GREED instead of NEED.
  • karone31karone31 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    heurou wrote: »
    Easy solution would be to make the items bound to character that drop in dungeons

    This is true but, its also easy to just disable the need button if the item is not your class, the loot roll already tells you when an item is not your class so it should be realy easy to disable the button.
  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    elenoe8 wrote: »
    disagree. You only trying to solve one aspect on completele flaw system. The problem is not that someone loot red item. Next time you get upset that same class fellow looted 2 items and you got 0.

    Allowing need rolls only for gear that that your class can use, at least for blues and purples, would fix the major flaw. Losing to someone of the same class is bad luck. Losing it to someone who cannot use it and will just sell it is falling victim to anti-social behavior.

    It is a problematic scenario where you have to choose to either get screwed over or to join the gutter and engage in the same behavior. It does not make for a friendly community.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
  • yarrmoryarrmor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Allowing need rolls only for gear that that your class can use, at least for blues and purples, would fix the major flaw. Losing to someone of the same class is bad luck. Losing it to someone who cannot use it and will just sell it is falling victim to anti-social behavior.

    It is a problematic scenario where you have to choose to either get screwed over or to join the gutter and engage in the same behavior. It does not make for a friendly community.

    +1. I think we should need a karma system for the forums soon :P
  • turkman84turkman84 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    filc wrote: »
    this topic again. :D The same topic over and over in every mmo. Simple solution ...

    If you want loot don't do dungeons with PUGs. It's simple as that.

    Of course this topic arises in every mmo that doesn't have incorporated the genius solution WoW came up with (or at least I think they came up with it, since they had the similar problem in the beginning.). The player must not be allowed to roll on gear he/she is unable to wear with the class she is running the dungeon with. As long as the game doesn't incorporate such a system these posts will recur. And rightfully so. This should definitely be something they should implement soon.
  • yarrmoryarrmor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    turkman84 wrote: »
    Of course this topic arises in every mmo that doesn't have incorporated the genius solution WoW came up with (or at least I think they came up with it, since they had the similar problem in the beginning.). The player must not be allowed to roll on gear he/she is unable to wear with the class she is running the dungeon with. As long as the game doesn't incorporate such a system these posts will recur. And rightfully so. This should definitely be something they should implement soon.

    Or a system that let's one votekick a party member for taking to many NEEDs. But then again, the damage is already done. Or halve ones roll (e.g. 1-50 after 1 NEED, 1-25 after 2 NEEDs) for every NEED they pick when they can't use given item.
  • tobuay04tobuay04 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yeah, I was just in a group in Cloak tower and most of the boss drops are for Trickster Rogue, yet every time a Control Wizard would need on the item. I got a little pissed and comment that he should not need a a piece his character could not use. I got no response from him or any of my group...
    I'll say it straight.. This is not WoW here this is a new game that is suppose to be new edge. That being said I don't see why the developers cannot simply alter the roll or loot system to only allow the need roll if your character you are on can use it. Yes there will be people who can need it even if they have it or if they have better equipment but.. that would at least limit it to something that is not as unfair..
    I think I may just start needing everything in dungeons tbh regardless of whether or not I can use it.. though tbh I would rather it be fair and have people level up their character and farm on that character rather then just needing on everything for the alts or whatever. Though I think I will just start needing on everything since the world is full of greedy lil F@cks
  • ganjaman1ganjaman1 Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    agrias34 wrote: »
    Since there no longer is a feedback section, here's a thread regarding the whole loot system of Need / Greed / Pass.

    Before I being, I would like everyone to know that this is my opinion, it isn't considered correct, only what I feel would improve quality gameplay and the betterment of Neverwinter in my eyes. I would love for everyone reading this to also give their feedback regarding this issue and let Cryptic/PW know how you feel about this system and what could they do to improve it for the betterment of the game.


    Here's the problem:

    You're in a random group for the level 60+ epic dungeons which drop some nice purple gears. My last group for example, had 2 GWF's, 1 GF, 1 cleric and 1 rogue.
    Whenever a nice purple item would drop for let's say, rogues, everyone, and I mean everyone in the group would roll NEED for the item. Why? Because they can sell it for astral diamonds on the marketplace. I've done 3 runs today in Cloak Tower epic, sort of the beginner dungeon for level 60's and not 1 person in any of those runs actually won gear suited for their class, it was ninja'd by some other class who couldn't use it, but only rolled NEED to be able to make profit from the item.

    What I'm trying to get at is that there really should be no reason a class that cannot use a specific piece of gear have the ability to roll NEED for it. Only a rogue should be able to roll NEED on a rogue item, and would be forced to either GREED or PASS for everything else that isn't meant for a rogue.


    Now, before a lot of you trolls and haters start posting negativity towards this, YES, I am aware that a common solution to this problem is Joining a guild and running with people and friends you trust. However, there are times where they aren't available, or you don't have time to do that, or you are just unsocial and incapable of joining a guild. Whatever the reason, it is asinine that other classes are essentially stealing gear from those that actually need it, so they can just make some small profit from selling it.


    I would really love to hear what the community also has to say about this, and leave some constructive feedback or counterpoints on my argument so we can make Neverwinter a better place.


    TL;DR Shouldn't be allowed to roll NEED on items you can't use.


    Well that's funny , which server are you playing on right now ? On the server I play atm i've yet to see someone roll need on an item that is not for him / her .
  • nimiarnimiar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ajemia wrote: »
    Originally Posted by zmihaie80
    if the item is for your class, including the general purpose items, you should be allowed to roll need/greed pass
    if the item is not for your class, you should only be allowed to roll greed/pass


    yes, it should be like this
    Agreed.

    If the person who can use it actually does have better gear, then they can roll greed to share the roll. The benefits of this system outweigh the downsides - it is harder to exploit than a free-for-all needing system.
  • thehalostrikethehalostrike Member Posts: 63
    edited May 2013
    cant roll need on items you cant use. Only option is greed.

    Make T1 and T2 BoP or maybe a 5% chance of all epics you find to be BoE the rest are BoP. So there is still a chance to buy gear from AH but just way less, most gear will be BoP so only usefull to vendor it. Get rid of this stupid buying best gear from AH!

    fix yo shiet.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I still think just giving everyone their own loot rolls would solve the issue...
  • rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I don't know if Im just lucky or people see me not being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> when I roll on things and do the same.... Ive received all things Ive rolled on for my class. Havent yet, had anyone ninja roll on me. Never roll need on anything not for my class. Except green/unidentified randomness for my cleric companion.

    I also immediately say, "Hi, how are you all doing this evening" when joining a group. Usually If I don't say a word in a PUG, no one does. I just make sure everyone knows im here and attentive. If no one says a word in party chat sometimes I become a little worried, but so far no ones every been a kittenhat in my groups.

    A word of suggestion, in PUGS, make sure communication is there from the start.

    (But I am certain it still happens, not saying it doesn't. And I totally agree it needs to be looked into and a different system put into place. Ive noticed though pugs lack communication until its too late.)

    Edit: and with a gametag like mine. people are probably more worried about me than I of them. But yah Id rather play fair and let all enjoy the fruits of dungeoneering.
    We can pretend.
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  • chadblodgettchadblodgett Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ganjaman1 wrote: »
    Well that's funny , which server are you playing on right now ? On the server I play atm i've yet to see someone roll need on an item that is not for him / her .

    I play on the Dragon server and this kind of behavior is ABSOLUTELY rampant. in just about every single PUG group I have joined there is at least one person in the group who need rolls everything.

    When I take offence to it, the first argument I hear is that "everything is unidentified so we have to roll need".....here's a big hint .....EVEN UNIDENTIFIED ITEMS DISPLAY CLASS RESTRICTIONS on their tool-tips if you actually take the time to look. So that excuse does NOT hold water. I cant even begin to count how many times I have watched someone "need" roll an unidentified item that had a class restriction on it simply because they could not be bothered to examine the item they rolled on before doing so. And yes, I realize that there are some items (mainly green and white jewelry and belt items) that are "universal" but even still, I personally consider it bad form to 'need' roll on a green item (without asking the groups permission first), and so do most other players I would think.

    Now on to my suggestions for how to fix this FUBAR mess of a loot system.

    1. Never...ever..allow a "need" roll on class redistricted items (regardless of item quality) not for the players class.

    2. Make unidentified items with class restrictions show up with red icon overlays so that it is more readily apparent that it is, in fact, a class restricted item.

    3. Make all dungeon loot that is "blue" quality or better "Bind on Acquire" so that the items can not be sold on the AH for a profit. At most it can be sold to a vendor for a few copper.

    Number 1 removes the ability to "Ninja" the loot while in the dungeon, Number 3 removes the incentive for doing so, and Number 2 just makes it easier for the lazy folks who don't bother to check tool-tips before rolling.
    PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
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