I had a dream about beta last night. Cleanup this morning was messy... (worth it).
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Guess nothing special today 12/12/12. Pity if there was Beta magic, it would be today. Lesee, Hanukkah Started, Christmas and Kwanzaa not yet (hey spelled it right finally!) And the end of the world allegedly is 9 days away, so if that doesn't happen, guess Beta is early 2013 (January I bet) after all.
I cannot say for certain in NWO's case, but generally when a game enters Beta, their NDA is lifted.
Actually when a game enters Open Beta the NDA always drops, but in closed beta it NDA's are in affect until either the closed beta ends or the company decides to lift it. However in some cases closed beta's can continue with the NDA in force for closed beta but not in force for things in open beta....
I can be confusing
Edit: I meant to say it can be confusing but I can be confusing as well!
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Actually when a game enters Open Beta the NDA always drops, but in closed beta it NDA's are in affect until either the closed beta ends or the company decides to lift it. However in some cases closed beta's can continue with the NDA in force for closed beta but not in force for things in open beta....
I can be confusing
I have been in far more closed betas with no NDAs than I have been in closed betas with NDAs still in effect. That is why I said, "generally," and noted such a stipulation in the post I linked to, which you quoted. In which, I basically said what you just said, just in another wording.
Closed Beta has truly not started yet. It wont start before a major announcement. There are other development cycles that come before CB. Now whether the game is still in pre-alpha or has advanced to alpha phase is what most of us do not know. Those who are in it cant talk. That's standard with just about any mmo game.
Why do people make statements that are based on pure guesswork and have no basis in fact whatsover? Not only that but statements like yours only serve to confuse.
There's no truth to the statement that closed beta will only happen after a major announcement. Many many closed betas in other games have stared completely silently with all CB participants restricted from making any statement about their participation.
Other than that you don't have any knowledge of what "development cycles" the game is in or how they relate to the beginning of a closed beta, with or without public awareness.
In my experience every company does it differently, even depending on the stage of the beta. NWO seems to be far enough along with the stuff i've seen I can't imagine them being terribly strict on an NDA when it does go up. Don't remember which it was but it had a really strict NDA you had to agree to EVERYTIME you logged in. After a huge leak they took it down from log in but had it in the ToS so they could sue if bad stuff came out I guess.
Closed Beta has truly not started yet. It wont start before a major announcement. There are other development cycles that come before CB. Now whether the game is still in pre-alpha or has advanced to alpha phase is what most of us do not know. Those who are in it cant talk. That's standard with just about any mmo game.
Why do people make statements that are based on pure guesswork and have no basis in fact whatsover? Not only that but statements like yours only serve to confuse.
There's no truth to the statement that closed beta will only happen after a major announcement. Many many closed betas in other games have stared completely silently with all CB participants restricted from making any statement about their participation.
Other than that you don't have any knowledge of what "development cycles" the game is in or how they relate to the beginning of a closed beta, with or without public awareness.
Actually, several of the latest videos Andy states, to the effect of, "Stay tuned to the Web Site for the Upcoming Beta Release Schedule." So, this not only purveys that Beta will be announced on the forums/web site but also that it will be announced prior to the start of Beta.
Aandrethegiantis quite a knowledgeable fellow and is known in the MMORPG Media Community, he does know a thing or two on MMOs. I've also worked in the MMO News Media Industry for some years (Stratics) and have been in numerous Alphas and Betas since 1997. I even worked for EA Games (Ultima Online) at one point. I also know a thing or two about ratings, much of which I am still held to an NDA even though I no longer work for Nielsen Media Research. I now work for Perfect World Entertainment (Neverwinter) in a Volunteer capacity.
k44mosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Do you want this to be the saddest story ever told to a grandson?
"And Christmas came Jacob. The wind was hallowing. The streets were empty. A kitten was crying in the public square. And there was no CB for that day."
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
i always hate when devs create a huge buzz for a game and market it and claim things theres gonna be beta then and then and really soon and lah lah lah and then you dont hear anything anymore for quite some time (same happens to darkfall right now) - why not just shut up in the first place and not <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off? starting buzz to early simply kills it off...
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
I think it's pretty safe to assume Cryptic isn't exactly thrilled to not be in Closed Beta yet.
Sadly the game is ready when the game is ready. As much as it sucks to wait they're not purposely being misleading or anything of that nature. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure if they knew then what we knew now they would have held back a bit more earlier on.
However, looking forward Cryptic and PWE are truly dedicated to bringing the best possible game they can to the table and that is the only reason we're not already in Beta. A lesser game company would have already released a game which they knew wasn't finished. So as much as it sucks to wait it would be far worse for them to release an unfinished game.
k44mosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Well, I can understand his point of view. Truly I can.
On the other hand, everybody has problems. The thing is that we don't know what's holding off the testing period.
And we are not requesting an unfinished game. It's beta. We would be helping out a lot.
The only reason I bought TL2 was for the key because I was hoping I could get into the beta in a month or so?
In retrospective, the whole business was a little shady. When you tell me that it's "upcoming", I get the feeling that almost everything is done. That's just my take.
But hey, I am sure it wasn't all in bad-faith. It would be a shame for it to be.
We must give people the benefit of a doubt. It's just the feeling that we will be seeing only 2-3-4 weeks of closed beta and that is rather sad.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Respectfully, it's people's own assumptions that make the mistakes that happen with regards to release dates. Just because a game or subscription promises a key doesn't mean the game will be releasing soon, just their guarantee for a future invite. Al lot of people think promotion=soon, but this is not always the case, even with just key releases when will be. It's a way to thank the loyal users, but even loyalty does not always equal priority when it comes to when the key is given out. I won't defend or condem PWE's marketing methods of the beta, but know that people will have to wait for that future time and understand the future is sometime now promised in early 2013 and they can hope for soon, but not get it as a guarantee.
I think it's pretty safe to assume Cryptic isn't exactly thrilled to not be in Closed Beta yet.
Sadly the game is ready when the game is ready. As much as it sucks to wait they're not purposely being misleading or anything of that nature. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure if they knew then what we knew now they would have held back a bit more earlier on.
However, looking forward Cryptic and PWE are truly dedicated to bringing the best possible game they can to the table and that is the only reason we're not already in Beta. A lesser game company would have already released a game which they knew wasn't finished. So as much as it sucks to wait it would be far worse for them to release an unfinished game.
You make a good point. And it has almost always been the way I've looked at game delays. Almost without exception the longer a game is delayed the better it is.(Zelda Ocarina of time Is a perfect example of this.) Their only really two exceptions to this rule. One of them is when the game is no longer being worked on during the delay.(Duke Nukem is a perfect example of this.) The second is when the game is getting a complete overhaul because of various reasons. (FF XIV Is a perfect example of this. They decided to make it multiplatform extremely late in the production, and delayed it for almost a year.) Basically so long as they are trying to improve the game and make it more enjoyable, then the longer the delays, the more astonishing the game will be on release.
Always look for the silver lining, and focus on that. It will make you fill better.
Da kitties don't speak for me, deez kitties speak fur us all!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'll Keep this up till beta goes live. I'll improve it soon.
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k44mosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Well, that's also true.
And I blame it all on gaming industry for being hijacked by corporate greed and spewing out only dumb and boring titles for the past couple of years. There are some exceptions.
If I actually had what to play, I would not be so upset.
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Respectfully, it's people's own assumptions that make the mistakes that happen with regards to release dates. Just because a game or subscription promises a key doesn't mean the game will be releasing soon, just their guarantee for a future invite. Al lot of people think promotion=soon, but this is not always the case, even with just key releases when will be. It's a way to thank the loyal users, but even loyalty does not always equal priority when it comes to when the key is given out. I won't defend or condem PWE's marketing methods of the beta, but know that people will have to wait for that future time and understand the future is sometime now promised in early 2013 and they can hope for soon, but not get it as a guarantee.
that might all be and i understand that these kind of projects are way more complex than other things - still, game developpers are the only ones that can pull of stunts like this - i have worked on a lot of international projects - and a deadline is a deadline is a deadline - no one gives a *** why you arent ready when you said/are supposed to be...it just has become a common culture in the gaming world to create buzz and a lot of hype and marketing promisses to stand out against the competition...until all colappses likea card house
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berry90Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited December 2012
I'm just sick and tired of waiting for this ****** beta key.
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k44mosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
@berry90 - you realize that even if you receive the key, it would be useless as the beta hasn't started?
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And I blame it all on gaming industry for being hijacked by corporate greed and spewing out only dumb and boring titles for the past couple of years. There are some exceptions.
If I actually had what to play, I would not be so upset.
that might all be and i understand that these kind of projects are way more complex than other things - still, game developpers are the only ones that can pull of stunts like this - i have worked on a lot of international projects - and a deadline is a deadline is a deadline - no one gives a *** why you arent ready when you said/are supposed to be...it just has become a common culture in the gaming world to create buzz and a lot of hype and marketing promisses to stand out against the competition...until all colappses likea card house
Growing up in the industry I'm about to mention, I can say you forgot the rest of the entertainment industry, especially the movie business being notorious for this kind of behavior.
And in regards to the gaming industry being "safe" and recycling only for the pat few years, the movie industry has (always done it but has) primarily shifted to doing a remake/reboot or retelling of TV shows, other movies or anything already "told" consistently for.....lessee the formulaic trends coupled with the strike history and the Little Rascals and Brady Bunch Movies being 1994 and we'll go for this discussion on release year not production starting...
I just said that the expectations are hyperfueled by the fact that there aren't any great games out there to spend some quality time with.
I still have BG2 installed with Big World.
Yeah I agree with that, I am super lucky to be part of the ESO semi-weekly F&F Alpha, which has gotten me back into Skyrim pretty heavily. But I understand why cryptic is taking the time here...they have a lot riding on this title and it can't be a launch now fix later proposition like CO and STO were and to be honest ESO can very easily out D&D Neverwinter if Cryptic isn't careful, Cryptic I think realizes that as awesome as the Foundry can be...it simply can't carry the entire title, there is going to have to be an engaging story, quality crafting systems and a economy that works despite the cash shop...that isn't so easy to pull off but I'm betting Cryptic can.
that might all be and i understand that these kind of projects are way more complex than other things - still, game developpers are the only ones that can pull of stunts like this - i have worked on a lot of international projects - and a deadline is a deadline is a deadline - no one gives a *** why you arent ready when you said/are supposed to be...it just has become a common culture in the gaming world to create buzz and a lot of hype and marketing promisses to stand out against the competition...until all colappses likea card house
I believe the term vapour ware was coined with the development of business software, which Neverwinter definitely is not. Also, delays in implementation projects had become so endemic that contracts were written with penalties for missed deadlines, commonly referred to as skin in the game. But, the attitude that a deadline is a deadline led to the second set of contract clauses for skin in the game, missing functionality. These statistics are from the early 2000's but 50% of business software implementations failed, i.e. required either a full re-implementation of the chosen software or the implementation of a second software for the same functionality and 80% required further development to meet the requirements. These were industry statistics and the projects that I worked on had much better results but trying to state that delays are limited to the gaming industry is not accurate. Having worked on several international projects, usually there is a test site within a single locality where the implementation/development is tested and worked out and then the project is expanded to an international scale where the only possible speed bumps are localizations. My point being that business software development has the same delays and development issues that occur in games. Also, implementing existing software is not a comparison for development and still has similar delays until the implementation has been worked through. Software development has delays, regardless of industry.
it could actually.. it really can. a lot of things in GW2 don't feel right to me (+ i'm a HUGE d&d fan since 2nd ed). but as far as fantasy combat goes and graphics/environement.. its quite solid.
looking forward to either NWO or TESO, and until i'm being proven they rock more, i stick with GW2.
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ssantiagoxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
that might all be and i understand that these kind of projects are way more complex than other things - still, game developpers are the only ones that can pull of stunts like this - i have worked on a lot of international projects - and a deadline is a deadline is a deadline - no one gives a *** why you arent ready when you said/are supposed to be...it just has become a common culture in the gaming world to create buzz and a lot of hype and marketing promisses to stand out against the competition...until all colappses likea card house
"Stunts like this?" Really man, you need to sit back and think a bit about what you are talking about because frankly you are not in touch with reality.
There's only two groups of people here that have any right to even question when cb will start and that's pre-order customers and lifetimers. And when I mean "right" I simply mean they've been promised access for paying money, so they are obligated to.
What they are NOT obligated to, nor is anyone else who is interested in getting a key, is to get that access within ANY timeframe since one was NEVER committed to. End of story. Had Perfect World said "by purchasing this pre-order you will gain access to NW closed beta that starts on x date" then there's a valid reason for complaint or for rants, like yours. However that is not the case. Not even close.
So, beta will come when it comes. I come here not to push for it to come sooner but to rather 1) check on it's status if any has been posted and 2) commensurate with others who are anxious for beta.
We are lucky that this company, unlike many others, has given us information on whether or not CB has even started and discussed as much as they have. Let's not get all self indulgent and start hounding them just to make yourself feel good because all it does is effect the information flow and general environment for everyone else.
Comments
And no you can't have nemesis' stuff, it's mine!
also did anyone keep tabs on square enix's 12/12/12 secret game reveal? holy disappointment.
Dagnabbit my PM pop up...didn't. I got a backlog, I'll reply shortly.
Ahh, if it was the other game it showed up. If it was something else re-send it, thanks!
Actually when a game enters Open Beta the NDA always drops, but in closed beta it NDA's are in affect until either the closed beta ends or the company decides to lift it. However in some cases closed beta's can continue with the NDA in force for closed beta but not in force for things in open beta....
I can be confusing
Edit: I meant to say it can be confusing but I can be confusing as well!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Why do people make statements that are based on pure guesswork and have no basis in fact whatsover? Not only that but statements like yours only serve to confuse.
There's no truth to the statement that closed beta will only happen after a major announcement. Many many closed betas in other games have stared completely silently with all CB participants restricted from making any statement about their participation.
Other than that you don't have any knowledge of what "development cycles" the game is in or how they relate to the beginning of a closed beta, with or without public awareness.
Actually, several of the latest videos Andy states, to the effect of, "Stay tuned to the Web Site for the Upcoming Beta Release Schedule." So, this not only purveys that Beta will be announced on the forums/web site but also that it will be announced prior to the start of Beta.
Aandrethegiant is quite a knowledgeable fellow and is known in the MMORPG Media Community, he does know a thing or two on MMOs. I've also worked in the MMO News Media Industry for some years (Stratics) and have been in numerous Alphas and Betas since 1997. I even worked for EA Games (Ultima Online) at one point. I also know a thing or two about ratings, much of which I am still held to an NDA even though I no longer work for Nielsen Media Research. I now work for Perfect World Entertainment (Neverwinter) in a Volunteer capacity.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
"And Christmas came Jacob. The wind was hallowing. The streets were empty. A kitten was crying in the public square. And there was no CB for that day."
Sadly the game is ready when the game is ready. As much as it sucks to wait they're not purposely being misleading or anything of that nature. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure if they knew then what we knew now they would have held back a bit more earlier on.
However, looking forward Cryptic and PWE are truly dedicated to bringing the best possible game they can to the table and that is the only reason we're not already in Beta. A lesser game company would have already released a game which they knew wasn't finished. So as much as it sucks to wait it would be far worse for them to release an unfinished game.
On the other hand, everybody has problems. The thing is that we don't know what's holding off the testing period.
And we are not requesting an unfinished game. It's beta. We would be helping out a lot.
The only reason I bought TL2 was for the key because I was hoping I could get into the beta in a month or so?
In retrospective, the whole business was a little shady. When you tell me that it's "upcoming", I get the feeling that almost everything is done. That's just my take.
But hey, I am sure it wasn't all in bad-faith. It would be a shame for it to be.
We must give people the benefit of a doubt. It's just the feeling that we will be seeing only 2-3-4 weeks of closed beta and that is rather sad.
You make a good point. And it has almost always been the way I've looked at game delays. Almost without exception the longer a game is delayed the better it is.(Zelda Ocarina of time Is a perfect example of this.) Their only really two exceptions to this rule. One of them is when the game is no longer being worked on during the delay.(Duke Nukem is a perfect example of this.) The second is when the game is getting a complete overhaul because of various reasons. (FF XIV Is a perfect example of this. They decided to make it multiplatform extremely late in the production, and delayed it for almost a year.) Basically so long as they are trying to improve the game and make it more enjoyable, then the longer the delays, the more astonishing the game will be on release.
Always look for the silver lining, and focus on that. It will make you fill better.
And I blame it all on gaming industry for being hijacked by corporate greed and spewing out only dumb and boring titles for the past couple of years. There are some exceptions.
If I actually had what to play, I would not be so upset.
that might all be and i understand that these kind of projects are way more complex than other things - still, game developpers are the only ones that can pull of stunts like this - i have worked on a lot of international projects - and a deadline is a deadline is a deadline - no one gives a *** why you arent ready when you said/are supposed to be...it just has become a common culture in the gaming world to create buzz and a lot of hype and marketing promisses to stand out against the competition...until all colappses likea card house
Growing up in the industry I'm about to mention, I can say you forgot the rest of the entertainment industry, especially the movie business being notorious for this kind of behavior.
And in regards to the gaming industry being "safe" and recycling only for the pat few years, the movie industry has (always done it but has) primarily shifted to doing a remake/reboot or retelling of TV shows, other movies or anything already "told" consistently for.....lessee the formulaic trends coupled with the strike history and the Little Rascals and Brady Bunch Movies being 1994 and we'll go for this discussion on release year not production starting...
over 18 years now.
I still have BG2 installed with Big World.
Yeah I agree with that, I am super lucky to be part of the ESO semi-weekly F&F Alpha, which has gotten me back into Skyrim pretty heavily. But I understand why cryptic is taking the time here...they have a lot riding on this title and it can't be a launch now fix later proposition like CO and STO were and to be honest ESO can very easily out D&D Neverwinter if Cryptic isn't careful, Cryptic I think realizes that as awesome as the Foundry can be...it simply can't carry the entire title, there is going to have to be an engaging story, quality crafting systems and a economy that works despite the cash shop...that isn't so easy to pull off but I'm betting Cryptic can.
I believe the term vapour ware was coined with the development of business software, which Neverwinter definitely is not. Also, delays in implementation projects had become so endemic that contracts were written with penalties for missed deadlines, commonly referred to as skin in the game. But, the attitude that a deadline is a deadline led to the second set of contract clauses for skin in the game, missing functionality. These statistics are from the early 2000's but 50% of business software implementations failed, i.e. required either a full re-implementation of the chosen software or the implementation of a second software for the same functionality and 80% required further development to meet the requirements. These were industry statistics and the projects that I worked on had much better results but trying to state that delays are limited to the gaming industry is not accurate. Having worked on several international projects, usually there is a test site within a single locality where the implementation/development is tested and worked out and then the project is expanded to an international scale where the only possible speed bumps are localizations. My point being that business software development has the same delays and development issues that occur in games. Also, implementing existing software is not a comparison for development and still has similar delays until the implementation has been worked through. Software development has delays, regardless of industry.
it could actually.. it really can. a lot of things in GW2 don't feel right to me (+ i'm a HUGE d&d fan since 2nd ed). but as far as fantasy combat goes and graphics/environement.. its quite solid.
looking forward to either NWO or TESO, and until i'm being proven they rock more, i stick with GW2.
"Stunts like this?" Really man, you need to sit back and think a bit about what you are talking about because frankly you are not in touch with reality.
There's only two groups of people here that have any right to even question when cb will start and that's pre-order customers and lifetimers. And when I mean "right" I simply mean they've been promised access for paying money, so they are obligated to.
What they are NOT obligated to, nor is anyone else who is interested in getting a key, is to get that access within ANY timeframe since one was NEVER committed to. End of story. Had Perfect World said "by purchasing this pre-order you will gain access to NW closed beta that starts on x date" then there's a valid reason for complaint or for rants, like yours. However that is not the case. Not even close.
So, beta will come when it comes. I come here not to push for it to come sooner but to rather 1) check on it's status if any has been posted and 2) commensurate with others who are anxious for beta.
We are lucky that this company, unlike many others, has given us information on whether or not CB has even started and discussed as much as they have. Let's not get all self indulgent and start hounding them just to make yourself feel good because all it does is effect the information flow and general environment for everyone else.