I know neverwinter wont use 100% of 4th edition rules but we can also have items with powers (daily's/encounter's) if so theres at least one more power to use, also in pnp item powers per day can reach 3 at lvl 21.
So, 7 standard powers, 1 more on tab hotkey (dunno if is power) and possibly item clickies.
As for me i agree with some guys, the important thing is to have many choices of powers not the number of power u can use while playing, if u look back to other MMO's u guys have played u dont rly used more than 7 powers beside u have 30 or more to use.
17 total powers to choose from certainly feels a little shallow, assuming that is how it works. That's roughly the total number of powers you have to choose from at level 2. In one handbook. With that said, having played a game with similarly limited options (FFXI), it actually wasn't that bad and made each ability mean a lot more to you.
I haven't seen any kind of explanation of how your class build will impact the options available to you yet. I suppose it would be possible to give them unique skill trees. As others have mentioned, there is a distinct lack of paragon path choices in the few screenshots available which offers another avenue for customisation.
We'll have to wait and see I guess, but if that is really the full depth of customisation I'd be somewhat disappointed. There was also no feats tab.
This thread is so jit,
i am testing guild wars 2 currently (in lack of anything else to do), and for those of you interested to know: it has no extra abilities to learn at all. everything is on the weapons. which is a way to make quick swapping easy, but it also limits the number of options to sad 2 (for the engineer) or a few more for the tank types. The elemental wizards have a customized button bar just for the swapping of elements to use (fire, air, earth, water). You could say that every class has its own little customize that way.
I can only say that i am transfixed by the route mmorpgs are taking ... simplify, reduce, nerf, terminate.
For those of you who might remember Evercrack..I mean EverQuest, it had only 8 powers/skills at anytime active. I not sure it had that many separate skills/spells either, as most where just upgrades to your existing spells. And that was a very successful game.
I also know that in alot of mmo you using your "at will" powers or basic attacks all the time and then the CD ones when they are up, this games still has that. I do not remember using more than 7-9 skill/powers in any rotation, though there was the odd special or situational ones, but still not that many.
One thing though you could save different sets of "powers" so you could change for say solo, group, pvp or buffing, though in this game I think buffing will be slightly different.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am not evil, I am just cursed.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I can only say that i am transfixed by the route mmorpgs are taking ... simplify, reduce, nerf, terminate.
This is the effect of the mass complaints players give. Sad but true.
I hope we can see a more complex and in depth system here than in Guild Wars or other MMO's.
Games like Guild Wars and Diablo rely completely on gear in order to provide scaled difficulty in the combat but I have always felt that true D&D drew inspiration from the age old saying that weapons are an extension of the person.
To give an example, Drizzt is aided greatly by the magical effects of Twinkle and Icingdeath but he would be equally deadly with any scimitars he picks up. This is how I view D&D and how D&D is differentiated from most other games on the market.
It's a sad road that MMO's have chosen to go down but it's driven by player complaint. It's far easier to revamp one item compared to a class system. Players tend to not be as angry as single item nerfs compared to class nerfs/buffs.
Also if the learning curve is too high players simply walk away. The complexity of D&D's rules system has been the biggest problem it has faced for the last decade. The more complicated the rules became the less players enjoyed the game. While I personally liked most of the 3 and 3.5 concepts it was so complex many players refused to use the rule systems and it was virtually impossible to introduce a *new* player into D&D with rulebooks more complex than some law books.
In the end I have to say the reality of the situation is that every bad thing about modern MMO's are brought on by complaints of players who probably will never enjoy the games regardless of what developers do to appease them.
Simple is good but challenge is derived by a lack of simplicity.
"So simple a caveman can do it," doesn't make for an enjoyable game despite the complaints players will inevitably give to any game which, dare I say it, requires a bit of reading!
nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2012
i think comparing this to other games is futile...also gw2 has A LOT more abilities to choose from...and since different wepaons have a different focus it supports weapon switching which i think is a nice feature....a lot of games have a lot of different attributes, thats not the question. it is however if 17/7 abilities are enough... i would have less issues with that if you could draw from a larger pool of abilities with abilities that have different stacking/combination effects with each other (similar to the secret world's system)
with just so few abilities and heavily instanced gameplay, i feel this is going to be rather an arcade multiplayer game (as it was originally thought of) than an mmo and that players will heavily and quickly switch classes (which of course supports having several character slots which perfect world will happily sell to you against real cash b:pleased )
what i would like is
cross class combos (similar to guild wars 2)
cross ability combos (combining different abilities creates different effects - similar to dragon age)
utilizing ability synergies through different combinations (similar to the secret world)
fatalities (similar to age of conan)
using your surrounding such as lighting oil on fire, freezing/electrifying water etc. etc. (similar to dragon age)
i think these things would greatly enhance the fast paced combat and beware combat from becomming stale
Its quite boring I played TSW couple month. Playing currently Rift, its combat is 20+ button combat, its alot more exciting at least you need to focus.
It seems it the current trend even Elder Scroll Online uses it. Even Darkfall Unholy Wars.
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syfylisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2012
It's not really abount number of skills but what kind of skills we talk about.
If it's a game physics changing skill's then it may be ok but if cryptic give us 7 fireball skills in different colours.
As far I see game is already outdated with graphics and poor animation. Wizzard video with left and right clicks was also verrry poor.
I think they do something we could see in Diablo3, we have many skills but only several slots.
Comments
So, 7 standard powers, 1 more on tab hotkey (dunno if is power) and possibly item clickies.
As for me i agree with some guys, the important thing is to have many choices of powers not the number of power u can use while playing, if u look back to other MMO's u guys have played u dont rly used more than 7 powers beside u have 30 or more to use.
Im not worried about the combat at all
I haven't seen any kind of explanation of how your class build will impact the options available to you yet. I suppose it would be possible to give them unique skill trees. As others have mentioned, there is a distinct lack of paragon path choices in the few screenshots available which offers another avenue for customisation.
We'll have to wait and see I guess, but if that is really the full depth of customisation I'd be somewhat disappointed. There was also no feats tab.
i am testing guild wars 2 currently (in lack of anything else to do), and for those of you interested to know: it has no extra abilities to learn at all. everything is on the weapons. which is a way to make quick swapping easy, but it also limits the number of options to sad 2 (for the engineer) or a few more for the tank types. The elemental wizards have a customized button bar just for the swapping of elements to use (fire, air, earth, water). You could say that every class has its own little customize that way.
I can only say that i am transfixed by the route mmorpgs are taking ... simplify, reduce, nerf, terminate.
I also know that in alot of mmo you using your "at will" powers or basic attacks all the time and then the CD ones when they are up, this games still has that. I do not remember using more than 7-9 skill/powers in any rotation, though there was the odd special or situational ones, but still not that many.
One thing though you could save different sets of "powers" so you could change for say solo, group, pvp or buffing, though in this game I think buffing will be slightly different.
This is the effect of the mass complaints players give. Sad but true.
I hope we can see a more complex and in depth system here than in Guild Wars or other MMO's.
Games like Guild Wars and Diablo rely completely on gear in order to provide scaled difficulty in the combat but I have always felt that true D&D drew inspiration from the age old saying that weapons are an extension of the person.
To give an example, Drizzt is aided greatly by the magical effects of Twinkle and Icingdeath but he would be equally deadly with any scimitars he picks up. This is how I view D&D and how D&D is differentiated from most other games on the market.
It's a sad road that MMO's have chosen to go down but it's driven by player complaint. It's far easier to revamp one item compared to a class system. Players tend to not be as angry as single item nerfs compared to class nerfs/buffs.
Also if the learning curve is too high players simply walk away. The complexity of D&D's rules system has been the biggest problem it has faced for the last decade. The more complicated the rules became the less players enjoyed the game. While I personally liked most of the 3 and 3.5 concepts it was so complex many players refused to use the rule systems and it was virtually impossible to introduce a *new* player into D&D with rulebooks more complex than some law books.
In the end I have to say the reality of the situation is that every bad thing about modern MMO's are brought on by complaints of players who probably will never enjoy the games regardless of what developers do to appease them.
Simple is good but challenge is derived by a lack of simplicity.
"So simple a caveman can do it," doesn't make for an enjoyable game despite the complaints players will inevitably give to any game which, dare I say it, requires a bit of reading!
They should let the player decide how complex, or how simple they want their build to be. That way, all will be happy, and anybody can win the game.
with just so few abilities and heavily instanced gameplay, i feel this is going to be rather an arcade multiplayer game (as it was originally thought of) than an mmo and that players will heavily and quickly switch classes (which of course supports having several character slots which perfect world will happily sell to you against real cash b:pleased )
what i would like is
cross class combos (similar to guild wars 2)
cross ability combos (combining different abilities creates different effects - similar to dragon age)
utilizing ability synergies through different combinations (similar to the secret world)
fatalities (similar to age of conan)
using your surrounding such as lighting oil on fire, freezing/electrifying water etc. etc. (similar to dragon age)
i think these things would greatly enhance the fast paced combat and beware combat from becomming stale
It seems it the current trend even Elder Scroll Online uses it. Even Darkfall Unholy Wars.
If it's a game physics changing skill's then it may be ok but if cryptic give us 7 fireball skills in different colours.
As far I see game is already outdated with graphics and poor animation. Wizzard video with left and right clicks was also verrry poor.
I think they do something we could see in Diablo3, we have many skills but only several slots.
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library