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  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited August 2012
    THACO was my favorite system. It was so much simpler than 3e, so much more in depth than 1e...however I can't say I am all too familiar with 4e to give an adequate opinion on it.

    Basically when I read about D&D versions this is what I hear:
    -First edition was a blast. The DM had so few boundaries the game was so much more enjoyable.
    -3e has so many rules I have to roll a die to see if I fail to "jump" a 1 foot gape...and sadly I can...

    I don't know...I just found AD&D to be such a great merge. 3e made more more complex and enjoyable video games but AD&D was my favorite PnP.

    4e is the only one I hear such a clear love/hate relationship to though. Most people who prefer 1e still enjoy and respect 3e for the great rules system it has but finds it too overbearing. For 4e I hear over the top love professed for it or such hatred they don't even acknowledged it's existence.

    It'll be interesting to see how 4e will go over in the video game industry non-the-less.
  • nimlohnimloh Member Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2012
    THACO was my favorite system. It was so much simpler than 3e, so much more in depth than 1e...however I can't say I am all too familiar with 4e to give an adequate opinion on it.

    Basically when I read about D&D versions this is what I hear:
    -First edition was a blast. The DM had so few boundaries the game was so much more enjoyable.
    -3e has so many rules I have to roll a die to see if I fail to "jump" a 1 foot gape...and sadly I can...

    I don't know...I just found AD&D to be such a great merge. 3e made more more complex and enjoyable video games but AD&D was my favorite PnP.

    4e is the only one I hear such a clear love/hate relationship to though. Most people who prefer 1e still enjoy and respect 3e for the great rules system it has but finds it too overbearing. For 4e I hear over the top love professed for it or such hatred they don't even acknowledged it's existence.

    It'll be interesting to see how 4e will go over in the video game industry non-the-less.

    I also love 2e--I'm a old school gaming fan. Though I could do without THAC0. I hate 4e with the utmost hatred. Can't wait to see what the finished 5e will be like. So far I'm excited.
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    THACO was my favorite system. It was so much simpler than 3e, so much more in depth than 1e...however I can't say I am all too familiar with 4e to give an adequate opinion on it.

    Basically when I read about D&D versions this is what I hear:
    -First edition was a blast. The DM had so few boundaries the game was so much more enjoyable.
    -3e has so many rules I have to roll a die to see if I fail to "jump" a 1 foot gape...and sadly I can...

    I don't know...I just found AD&D to be such a great merge. 3e made more more complex and enjoyable video games but AD&D was my favorite PnP.

    4e is the only one I hear such a clear love/hate relationship to though. Most people who prefer 1e still enjoy and respect 3e for the great rules system it has but finds it too overbearing. For 4e I hear over the top love professed for it or such hatred they don't even acknowledged it's existence.

    It'll be interesting to see how 4e will go over in the video game industry non-the-less.

    Don't get me wrong I have nothing against 4E, heck I'm currently running a campaign in 4E and plan on using my source books when Neverwinter launches to help with my UGC and I have been playing since the white box days. My favorite was 2nd E though....I just didn't like 3rd E that much and why pathfinder does nothing for me.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    THACO was my favorite system.

    Ugh, THAC0 is as unintuitive as it gets. 3e did a good thing switching from negative to positive numbers for AC.

    Everything else is a matter of taste I suppose, and I'm not as familiar with PnP D&D as most of you here. I guess my love for 3.5e is because there are more/better PC games using it. Nothing ever came close to TOEE in terms of D&D combat on PC, and it's in 3.5e.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited August 2012
    Third edition is an absolutely gorgeous system which is why I said it makes such wonderful video games. When I look at 3e I see a game which is 'what would happen if our lives were actually controlled by puppetmasters?'

    Third edition has an explanation and rule for everything. It's absolutely gorgeously designed in every way except it's too complex.
    If you played PnP third edition you'll find that more time is spent contemplating rules than playing the game.

    For baseball fans here I would equate it to giving people the ability to argue balls, strikes and every other umpire decision. Fans and players adamantly don't want it because more time could/would be spent arguing than playing (although when there's a bad call it seems like a good idea)

    Third edition's saving grace was that it worked hand in hand with video games. The video games simplify the rules so while you often know certain skills exist for certain reasons most of the time the throws are done in the background. It's not uncommon to end up having to roll 30-40+ d20 die in a single combat turn in 3e and no party would be complete without the rules lawyer pulling out their handy dandy notebook doing 30 minutes of research trying to say the sword he dropped when he rolled a 1 didn't fall to the ground but fell into the enemies foot (exaggerated yet probably true)
    Video Games take the rules out of sight and allows the game to be played.

    At first I loved seeing the higher numbers meaning better armor but it didn't work as well overall. A typical fighter could be stuck at 20 or so AC while a monk would run around with 50. WTF Over?
    To me things were just balanced better with the THACO system. That's not to say I hate 3e, I love it...but if you want to play PnP I'm more likely to stick with AD&D.


    I guess to try to hook this back on to the actual topic, for those who have played 4e how do you think 4e will handle in a video game?
    Will it be akin to my experience with third edition? Or do you think the system was so blah that you will give it a shot and not enjoy it?

    In third edition every character was created before you even created them. Players incorrectly planning out the character traits could truly limit the character's outcome.
    Should we expect the same from 4e or should we (hopefully not) be basically picking pre-made classes and have little to no say in the outcome?
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Third edition is an absolutely gorgeous system which is why I said it makes such wonderful video games. When I look at 3e I see a game which is 'what would happen if our lives were actually controlled by puppetmasters?'

    Third edition has an explanation and rule for everything. It's absolutely gorgeously designed in every way except it's too complex.
    If you played PnP third edition you'll find that more time is spent contemplating rules than playing the game.

    For baseball fans here I would equate it to giving people the ability to argue balls, strikes and every other umpire decision. Fans and players adamantly don't want it because more time could/would be spent arguing than playing (although when there's a bad call it seems like a good idea)

    Third edition's saving grace was that it worked hand in hand with video games. The video games simplify the rules so while you often know certain skills exist for certain reasons most of the time the throws are done in the background. It's not uncommon to end up having to roll 30-40+ d20 die in a single combat turn in 3e and no party would be complete without the rules lawyer pulling out their handy dandy notebook doing 30 minutes of research trying to say the sword he dropped when he rolled a 1 didn't fall to the ground but fell into the enemies foot (exaggerated yet probably true)
    Video Games take the rules out of sight and allows the game to be played.

    At first I loved seeing the higher numbers meaning better armor but it didn't work as well overall. A typical fighter could be stuck at 20 or so AC while a monk would run around with 50. WTF Over?
    To me things were just balanced better with the THACO system. That's not to say I hate 3e, I love it...but if you want to play PnP I'm more likely to stick with AD&D.


    I guess to try to hook this back on to the actual topic, for those who have played 4e how do you think 4e will handle in a video game?
    Will it be akin to my experience with third edition? Or do you think the system was so blah that you will give it a shot and not enjoy it?

    In third edition every character was created before you even created them. Players incorrectly planning out the character traits could truly limit the character's outcome.
    Should we expect the same from 4e or should we (hopefully not) be basically picking pre-made classes and have little to no say in the outcome?

    3e had such potential but any system that required a spreadsheet to plot a character's setup was a failed attempt at "fun" character creation overall. Personally, I loved the 1st ed with player's options before they went to second ed. Absolutely hated thac0 since it was so more elegant just adding up what your to hit was..and look, 3/4 editions use that still.


    But 2nd ed comes a very close second to my top edition just for the invention of character kits. A beauty of both play mechanics and background lore on both the race and locations. We pretty much owe the continuation of the bladesinger to the complete book of elves. I still to this day remmeber the riddlemaster and fool just for being unique (complete book of bards) and learned to RUUUUN if I saw a gnome professor with tools in his or her hand (complete book of gnomes of course.)


    But to briefly go back to the NWO part of this, it's exceptionally likely based on Cryptic's history that we will see an exceptional character creation and physical customization setup, even if it has to deviate from the PnP due to computer porting issues discussed elsewhere. The prefabs are most likely done so it can be quickly shown in the convention tours and have non savvy people easily make a character (as well as the simplification of the enemies so it isn't appearing to daunting; I feel it is highly likely that both the character creation and combat will be much more robust and complex once we have a full game release.)


    Trust me when I say it would be very difficult for Cryptic to make a current character creation customization when they are still getting feedback from outside sources testing the character creation and play-styles and the surveys are still being done.


    I'm 99.7 percent sure by the time Closed Beta starts you'll see a character creation system that not only exists beyond prefab (but will likely have the pregen option,) but one that is robust and fleshed out from said feedback. Remember, it could have been in the co-op version that we could have had pre-made characters anyway with no to little selection based on the restrictions made by Atari and their limited funding. Hearing that there is yet more time delayed to flesh out this game for a 2013 release only makes me think that more polish means more not fewer options.


    But let's all wait and see what we can see what is offered on the (discussable) beta releases first.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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