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Thoughts on PvP, arena or ?
Archived Post
Member Posts: 5,050,278 Bounty Hunter
I would really love to see a gladiator style ladder.. I think LFR is the perfect setting for something like this to actually make sense inside the game world.. there are many cities across the realms that have something like this going on..
I think e-sports are the wave of the future, and games that do not set up something to take advantage of it will end up getting left behind.. JMO
So what do you guys think? would you participate in something like this? If cryptic did not include it, would you do it if it was a player generated arena? what rule sets do you think would be best to set something like this up?
I think e-sports are the wave of the future, and games that do not set up something to take advantage of it will end up getting left behind.. JMO
So what do you guys think? would you participate in something like this? If cryptic did not include it, would you do it if it was a player generated arena? what rule sets do you think would be best to set something like this up?
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It also would be great if you can script it to charge a fee to participate, and this money can then be used to dole out the rewards. It also would be nice to have a system where players could lay down bets on the fights.
agree.. I would love to have a system you could bet on the fights..
rewards for participants could be a portion of entry fee's and a cut of the betting action.. it could be epic with some good cash being made by those who are good or lucky
Well, in the IGN interview, they said that the emphasis will be on cooperative gameplay. Meaning that PvP will take a back seat to PvE content. And I must say that it is about time. Not that I have anything against PvP, but in most MMOs so much effort goes into balancing the classes so that they work effectively for PvP. But often what balances something for PvP ends up imbalancing it for PvE and vice versa.
If there is to be a PvP element to NwO, Then skills and abilities need to have separate PvP and PvE rules, so adjusting one for the sake of balance will not affect the other. But I feel that their core game (cooperative online RPG) should remain the primary focus. PvE is a lot easier to balance than PvP, which will free up development resources for content creation.
even if the devs dont have something like this, we as players can create the content ourselves.. did it in nvn1 and 2, from the looks of The Foundry.. we will have that ability here also...
as far as balance goes, no game has perfect balance, some devs try.. but they always fail pretty horribly.. so not really even wanting them to try.. if we need to ban a certain ability or spell from the arena due to it being way to OP.. we can take care of that as players.
My hope here would be that sticking closely to the 4e rules would eliminate the need to make artificially different rules for PvP and PvE. In fact, I don't see why two players in an "co-op" adventuring party couldn't "have it out", if they wanted. Though this may open the door to griefing (unless you have a DM that can moderate, and/or a rating system to identify griefers), it would be quite a suspension of disbelief to say that players can't attack each other because...well, they just can't!
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I'd love to choose a group to join and represent in various arenas. For example, you might be a knight for, say, Cormyr or a champion of your chosen deity.
The ones that are should be ready to kill you.
Why can't this be implemented in forge. Its was a flag on the Aurora toolset.
Arena has my vote!
But I think a big reason PvP is so enjoyable in STO is because there is little content that really benefits of teams. If this game is build from the ground up for cooperative play and really making you want to have a human player instead of a henchman at your side due to the difficulty of PvE (which STO definitely doesn't outside the STFs), I think I'll be fine without it.
In general, D&D 4 is not build around PvP experiences. The classes have clear roles and a Striker vs Controller would probably be a highly unfair encounter - yet you wouldn't want to miss that Controller when you fight hordes of enemies. (Of course, that's only 1v1. Balanced teams fighting each other might be interesting again... But I am not sure in D&D 4, it wouldn't be best to have an All-Striker team that simply provides so much burst damage that the enemies side simply loses one member after another, making everything decide on the team's intiative.)
If they set it up, it should be for any level and they should NEVER atempt to balance the classes, you take your chance and thats it.
I'll partly agree about the comment about balancing for one ruins the other.
But, as I learned in PVP modules in NWN series, D&D classes weren't ever balanced for pvp...
With that said, class balancing shouldn't happen. Classes conform to D&D ruleset and shouldn't change that much. What I did was just built a character that fit pvp for pvp mods out there. its not that big of a deal since d&d only has 20 levels.
I don't know how this game is designed, but I would like to see the custom content players can create to allow for open PVP if the designer so chooses it. no need to balance anything. If your class gets owned in pvp, role a better build. period. clerics are pretty much the best at pvp in d&d ruleset because of the spells and heavy armor. since it's 4.0, kinda gonna miss building my own custom multiclass builds. but oh well.
Full PvP, limited PvP, arena-only PvP...
If it's player-designed in an arena-style...
right on... I'll definitely stop in.
Balance is the aspect that provides
another dimension to the game...
of course it will be imbalanced...
a halfling rogue going toe-to-toe with a
human paladin? I'd be up for that
just to see what would happen lol.
Developers should not try to 'balance' out
players for the purpose of PvP...
Balance them out for PvE and team-work.
PvP was never a priority for DnD.
And therefore if the developers want to
include it... keep this in mind with its design.
If the inclusion of PvP requires valuable
resources to be taken off the PvE development
team... and if it prolongs release... I say
scrap the PvP.
I've never played table-top characters for
the sake of creating skills to match other players
with the intent of PvP. It's always been for the
PvE.
Dynamic? yea I play a halfling rogue exclusively...
I come across some hardcore fighter or caster...
and they want to step up... I'll stand my ground.
I'm all about the AoC mentality of PvP.
However... I admit, I do have my limitations.
I would have THREE concerns:
1. 'Camping' next to fallen characters.
I'm not interested in a system that leaves
my dead character prostrate and accessible to
those that just owned me, allowing them to
'camp' next to my character to perpetually beat
me down upon each and every resurrection.
2. Body retrieval.
If I have to alight some rideable creature
for twenty minutes to go and retrieve my body...
I'll be uninstalling before I get there.
3. Loss of gold/items.
Depends on how much I would lose, and how
much time I would have to invest to replenish
my losses.
Yeah I know I'm griping about this... I am only
asking for a few conveniences if PvP becomes an
element in the game.
Either way... I'll trust the developers and their justifications.
Class with lower dps and hp can win against stronger one just if you can create combo that make your enemy toy in your hands. If cryptic can create good skills so each class can have some strategy then wining or losing is in players hands.
Added few skills to my thread. If each class get some of these skills then there will be no problem on pvp.
Normal skill that would be nice to see in game can be added to any class's you think is best:
1. Whirlwind - spining around with weapon atacking all nearby enemys.
2. Mist - creating great mist making people unable to see eachother
3. Goblin Path - allow u to move underground making enemy unable to atack you, jumping out when skill ends
4. Road To Heaven - Mind spell which freeze you and your enemy making unablle to move or atack (max10sec). Spell freeze enemy hp and mp when u can regenerate (skill can get cannceled when you or enemy get atacked).
5. Road To Hell - Mind spell which freeze you and your enemy making unablle to move or atack(max10sec). Every second you lose 1%hp when enemy lose 2%(skill can get cannceled when you or enemy get atacked)
6. Portal - same as you could see in portal game, create gate where caster stands to the place where caster point allowing to move him and he's party members
7. Octagonal Dimension - create 8 warp holes around caster allowing him to radomly move bettwen them
8. Tainted wings - allow caster to make 3 fast dash jumps
9. Symphony of Death - buff which increase our dmg. Less hp we have then greater buff. 100%hp 2% dmg, less than 70%hp 6%dmg,less than 40% 12%dmg, less than 20%hp 20%dmg, less than 5%hp 30%dmg
10. Shift - allow to switch places with friendly unit
11. Courage Shift - allow to switch places with enemy unit
12. Deadly Clone - create your clone which explode when atacked
13. Russian Roulette - cast random debuff on you and your enemy -20% hp,dmg,defense, resist etc. etc.
14. Pressure Reflection - knockback you and your enemy in oposite direction
15. Clown Costume - copies the appearance of your enemy
16. Double caster - allow you to instantlly cast 2 skill at once for 5 sec, when ends you can't cast skills for 5 sec
17. Devil statue - change your body to stone devil statue for 5 sec making you unable to move,atack and absorb all dmg to burst when you leave your statue shell dmg near enemies
18. Earth prison - hit the ground to create crater that create prison for nearby enemies
19. Silence blade - hit enemy with sword stoping them from casting any spell for 3 sec
20. Undead curse - curse enemy and slowly dmg him (dot), if the enemy die when spell is active then he become your minion for mobs 3min/ players 20sec
21. Do a barrel roll ! - do a barrel roll stuning all enemies on your way for 3 sec
22. Speed of Light - huge boost for your movement speed for 5sec and mark all enemies you have touch as a target for approaching lightning when the skil ends. Can't atack or cast any other spell when SoL is active
23. Cyclone eye - instantly create burst of air which knockback nearby enemies
24. Brotherhood - create link with your ally to absorb half of dmg he receive, and reducing the dmg you get in half for 5 sec
25. Last wish - instantly put you in half dead status for 3 sec, if you die in that time your dying body will create huge explosion
26. Blind - drastically reduce your opponent's field of view
27. Armagedon Blade - allow you to enchant your blade with power of 3 your or ally skills that can be released with a single blow, power dissapear if not hit anything in 15 sec
28. Ambush - make a long jump on your enemy stuning him for 2 sec
29. The trick of the mind - confuse enemy mind to make him move left when he want to move right and move back when he want to move forward etc. etc.
30. GET OVER HERE! - throw a chain to pierce the enemy and pull him to you (MK scorpion skill xD)
31. Friend or Foe ? - confuse your enemy to atack his ally
32. Life chain - Drain life from your enemy and transfer it to yourself or ally
33. Clown parade - for 5sec all enemies in AoE looks same as you
34. Decoy - create unontrollable clone of yours, when you can runaway in stealth mode for 5sec
35. Death sentence - mark enemy for 10sec with death sentence which give you 20% dmg boost agains marked enemy but makes you take 10% more dmg from other enemys
36. Ark of time - move you back in time to place where have you been 5sec ago with same hp/mp, can't cast skills for 2sec
37. Ivy walk - inc your movement speed for 10sec by 50% and leaving behind a trail that poisons your opponents
38. Mana burn - for 8sec each of your normal atack burn 5% of enemy mana
And I am happy about this. Finally an end to the constant nerfing of classes in the neverending quest for balance that will never be achieved so long as there are thinking minds behind the toons.
i realize that this is probably not an "either/or" scenerio, but i would like to have some assurance that the core systems that all of us are going to be using are intact before going to a peripheral pvp feature that not all of us are going to enjoy or participate in.
i like beating on baddies, not getting beat on by players that have faster computers or faster typing (or have a better shortcut setup) than me, that is not representative of dnd at all to me, and there is already going to be large elements of "realtime" gameplay that are "putting the kybosh" on turn-based combat.
i would like to see the devs try to avoid making this game all about min-maxing also. granted, there are going to be everyone's prime requisite scores that their class uses the "most" for their skills, but it would be nice to not be "punished" too harshly for assigning our scores in an "oddball" fashion in order to try to flesh out our characters at the ability score level, and to avoid the "carboncopy" effect.
personally, i dont like pvp, some of you do. i think the devs should concentrate on a more immmersive storyline or whatever other features that we would all enjoy before adding another "my dude is better than your dude" feature.
The biggest lie ever told concerning MMOs is that they REQUIRE PvP to be any good. The only people who say that are the ones who would feel cheated without the means of showing off the size of their e-peen.
PvP is not NEEDED. It's just one of those things that a part of the MMO community considers to be make-or-break. Just like there is a part that feels that a crafting system is needed. Or that the ability to have a house and decorate it.
Every sub-group in the MMO community feels that its favorite feature is what makes or breaks the game.
IF PvP were to exist in NW, then let it be kept apart from the core game. Let it have its own unique advancement system and let it be for characters designed and balanced expressly for PvP. That way, any nerfing done will not touch abilities balanced for PvE.
That was one of the biggest problems with Star Wars Galaxies. If they spent half the time they took rebalancing the 9 iconic classes on designing content, then maybe that game wouldn't have shut down week before last...
Be honest. If you've played any existing MMO for any length of time, aren't you tired of balance pass after balance pass on character classes and abilities?
Does that mean you are leaving us?
First of all, PvP is not <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I certainly haven't said such. However, it is not NEEDED for an MMO to be successful. It all depends on how serious the developer is in supporting the PvE crowd by making sure there is constant flow of content.
PvP tends to be one of the things people turn to when they run out of PvE content. That and raids. And I dearly wish developers would jump off the raid bandwagon. Especially in the context they have been used in for years as a geargrind treadmill.
Because Cryptic backpedaled and decided to turn this into yet another MMO, rather than the innovative concept of online RPG catering to standard party size grouping. I rather liked the thought that Cryptic would run a campaign and everyone else would be able to do likewise, forming player groups with Neverwinter becoming the platform for hosting campaigns.
I'm not even sure if I am going to bother with this game. I will participate in discussion, mainly because I enjoy discussion of game development, and I grew up with FIRST edition D&D. I didn't get to play it as often as I would have liked. But that did not lessen my interest.
MMOs do not require raiding. They do not require PvP. What they require is a focus on developing for the interests of a core audience. But todays developers have forgotten the true statement that it is impossible to please everying and the try their hardest to do exactly that... And more often than not, they fail... MISERABLY!
So if there is ever to be PvP in neverwinter, I pray they do what NCSoft did with Guild Wars 1 and keep the PvP aspect separate from the PvE. Those who want to PvP can do so. But the rest of us never have to worry about it affecting our gameplay due to constant tweaking and nerfing our character classes.
So let there be a PvP Fighter class and a PvE Fighter class. The only time the PvE version gets touch is to deal with issues arising from PvE. Same would apply to all other playable classes.
But I would rather Cryptic remain focused on delivering a solind and continuous series of PvE questlines that take us all over the Forgotten Realms, starting in Neverwinter and spreading out.
I don't want a typical MMO wrapped in a D&D skin. I want a D&D MMO through and through. And if that means sacrificing typical MMO mechanics if they don't fit within D&D rules, then so be it. You may not like it. But those of us who grew up with this IP and love it the way it is do.
Now if mechanics from other MMOs can be made to fith within the scope of the D&D IP, then by all means they should be added. But if not, then too bad. Want to play a game with those mechanics? Fine. Go play one. There are many already on the market to choose from. Just for once, let there be an IP-based MMO that is truly based upon the chosen IP.
PLEASE!
Well you guys was screaming about not having any pvp because it will change pve but i never said I wanted to change pve any way.
Only thing that i wanted to change was daily powers that are ok for single player/co-op game to cooldown system which would be stupid and pointless in pen and paper game (that's why you will never have it any rulebook) but it's best when it comes to mmo games and specifically for action mmo games
You need to keep people busy in mmo and pvp solution like in guild wars is best.
I would think that there will be PvP areas like in the DDO taverns and if they do I really hope they just put PvP areas and leave it at that and allow a PvP zone creations with the Foundry System. I don't want the nerf bat going round for the sake of "PvP balance" like how Turbine gutted archery in DDO due to QQing from the PvPers.
Really if you want PvP then you should go play GW2 as that is a focal point. Hopefully Cryptic will stick to the rulebooks and if PvP is allowed and people QQ, I just hope Cryptic has the backboe to say "Suck it up, this is how the rulebooks are and this is how it will be in NWO."
CO was meant to look cartoony, to represent a comic book theme, did you get past that, and that it was supposed to be marvel universe, but marvel pulled the pin, for reasons probably linked to atari?
all of these are the same as all the other is graphics and game play, big hair and oversized weapons, but none graphically more enhanced than others as they cant really, cos if we all played skyrim online, it would be lag city.
well you better not buy the game componets then! u know that cryptic is making Neverwinter right?
No one said anything about banishment, you have misinterperated as i took for granted that you played NWN/2 and understood a day night cycle 24hours=1 Real hour, 8 hrs = 3 seconds (example of a cooldown) hence why i tried to elaborate, a crafting mechanism in rift need 20 (real hours) to talk about the difference in real time versus game time management cooldown.
The core fundamentals of D&d are character creation, the LORE, the Monster base, Questing for lvl xp, treasure and Group Dynamic, certainly not pvp
FTW
that would be a shame, you are a good ambassador for this game.
CO - i know it's a cartoony but i think game developers forgot to create map and objects textures, aim system suck hard, mobs die to fast and game is boring as hell
No they are not same, they may have similar systems but gameplay is different. Well you would know it if you would ever play them.
About banishment for dying you guys said 24h and when i said it's stupid you guys said to go play another character, later on you or someone else said that one day can be 2h of real time. I'm not going here to play with quotes.
PvP is not core of DnD but it's core of MMO games. MMO games is about playing with people,compete and communicate with them. Pure DnD content it's not enough for mmo game. You don't create game for 20-40h but for several months.
PvP is not NEEDED. [/QUOTE]
It is for me
It was one of the main elements that made Neverwinter Nights such a cult success, imho.
I think the most important thing for NwO to be a great game is to allow the Foundry to have a robustness that allows players to design areas and such and balance out the pvp themselves.
Bottom line, just allow for the Foundry to have this ability to toggle and customize.
Respectively, the foundry and PvP may be separate things. It could be offered only as sanctioned from the company, a third-party module only, or not at all.
But if it is a potential option, I do hope we can "craft" it in our mods.