Oh, and maybe one more thing about the scope of the changes that I can make:
Since I'm a designer, I can make functionality changes to powers (although depending on the change, this can sometimes be time-consuming). And I can change raw numbers (this is almost always quick and easy, although deciding on the right number can sometimes be hard!). I can fix most (but not all) bugs, and the bugs I can't fix I have a decent chance of being able to get someone else to fix.
But what I can't do is make new art.
So a lot of ideas that I would really like to do (like totally revamp Lightning Bolt and Fireball) are beyond what's possible in this particular revamp. (I hope someday! I too am not happy with where Lightning Bolt and Fireball are. I have been poking the artists. :P)
Be aware that some things that might look like pure design issues can affect art. For example, changing cast times will cause a power to get out of synch with its art. But changing damage magnitudes or changing cooldown times is almost always OK from an art point of view.
And of course overall development time is always an issue. Given that I only have a certain amount of time, and given I can't completely revamp powers (if it changes the look), what can I do?
Mostly I've tried to emphasize two things: * Fixing bugs, especially the really annoying ones, or the ones that dramatically lower the Wizards' power level, or that leave certain powers/feats/etc. totally useless. * Increasing numbers, especially where it has a chance to bring marginal or bad powers to the point where they might be good picks. Even powers that seem terrible can become good with enough love. (If Shield did 900 Mag on every hit, everyone would use it. That would be too much, though. Is its current Mag enough to make it tempting in some builds? I hope so, but I can't know for sure!)
Part of what I'm wrestling with is that a rebuild of a power (even when it's possible) often consumes as much time as adjusting the numbers on 10 or 20 powers. So even though the latter might seem boring in comparison, it's often the best choice. Re-tuning 20 powers might bring 5 or 10 "dead" powers into circulation. Rebuilding 1 power might (or might not) help that 1 power, but that's all.
I think everyone gets the need of bringing powers in line, because choices are always great. But people obviously look at the current meta, see their best build nerfed, and are concerned with the damage output of a class that is already lacking. Maybe there are other options, we'll see.
There's also a risk that powers become too similar and generic. If you're saying AE and Ice Knife are now similar in damage output over the same period of time, where are the different use cases? Maybe if you have a lot of gear that gives +encounter damage, then you could use AE. In case you can boost daily damage, go use Ice Knife. Problem is that in the current state of the game, gear that boosts a power category only makes sense for capped players. So the difference in the dailies becomes marginal.
I'd suggest giving powers more of a distinct opportunity cost. Like let AE be the machine gun it is, and maybe up the damage bonus it gives. But then apply a recharge and damage malus for 10 seconds after AE. That way you can go all in on artifact calls for example, or use Ice Knife for a more reliable source of damage. Ditching "you can't gain AP while AE is running" would also be required to continue to bring powers on par.
Speaking of Ice Knife: TR Assassins have two dailies with 2000 and 2200 magnitude plus utility. So Ice Knife should have 2200 as well.
I think everyone gets the need of bringing powers in line, because choices are always great. But people obviously look at the current meta, see their best build nerfed, and are concerned with the damage output of a class that is already lacking. Maybe there are other options, we'll see.
There's also a risk that powers become too similar and generic. If you're saying AE and Ice Knife are now similar in damage output over the same period of time, where are the different use cases? Maybe if you have a lot of gear that gives +encounter damage, then you could use AE. In case you can boost daily damage, go use Ice Knife. Problem is that in the current state of the game, gear that boosts a power category only makes sense for capped players. So the difference in the dailies becomes marginal.
I'd suggest giving powers more of a distinct opportunity cost. Like let AE be the machine gun it is, and maybe up the damage bonus it gives. But then apply a recharge and damage malus for 10 seconds after AE. That way you can go all in on artifact calls for example, or use Ice Knife for a more reliable source of damage. Ditching "you can't gain AP while AE is running" would also be required to continue to bring powers on par.
Speaking of Ice Knife: TR Assassins have two dailies with 2000 and 2200 magnitude plus utility. So Ice Knife should have 2200 as well.
Rogue is meelee class you cant have the same magnitudes.
There is another possibility: our engine supports not only directly giving you SpeedRecharge (remember, having more SpeedRecharge just means that, as long as you have it, 1s of real-world time counts as 3s or 5s or whatever of cooldown time). It also supports directly subtracting cooldown from powers (called PowerRecharge). So what I could do is rebuild AE so that, instead of it giving you x3 SpeedRecharge for 10s, it instead subtracts 1s from your spell cooldowns every half second. Same benefit... over 10 seconds, you get 30s worth of cooldown reduction either way. And there's no UI "snap back" when AE expires in this world.
I think this would be a great solution, and shouldn't be any bother seeing the encounters go from the full cooldown and dropping rapidly, 3s every 1s in your example.
One minor point: in version 2 (PowerRecharge), I can adjust by subtracting a % of the total cooldown instead of just 1s. Doing that would make Encounter spells with longer cooldowns a more viable choice for AE. So that's another option, if people want it.
and yes to this!
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
That's one lengthy way of avoiding to explain why you're nerfing the class xD
Perhaps you would like to explain why this is nerfing the class in your opinion. Give proper feedback instead of generic "oh this is bad".
From my standpoint, it looks at worst a net balance. 80% reduction in encounter usage during artifact calls, however most powers were also buffed by 20% (or more!). Also with the added benefit of addressing the cooldown bug.
That's one lengthy way of avoiding to explain why you're nerfing the class xD
Perhaps you would like to explain why this is nerfing the class in your opinion. Give proper feedback instead of generic "oh this is bad".
From my standpoint, it looks at worst a net balance. 80% reduction in encounter usage during artifact calls, however most powers were also buffed by 20% (or more!). Also with the added benefit of addressing the cooldown bug.
The Arcanist rotation wasn't buffed or it's missing in the change log. As it stands the current capstone build on paper will do less damage thanks to AE nerf. Maybe there's another combination or Thauma that will take its place, but that's where the frustration is coming from. Also the reasons are explained in great detail in this thread multiple times. No reason to call out a sarcastic comment when the dev completely ignores the most pressing concerns that have been raised. The reaction is very reasonable.
That's one lengthy way of avoiding to explain why you're nerfing the class xD
Perhaps you would like to explain why this is nerfing the class in your opinion. Give proper feedback instead of generic "oh this is bad".
I would gladly do that, had they asked for feedback from wizard mains, instead they got barbarian/paladin/rogue mains to playtest... and not even good ones at that. But ok ok Ima let the nerf happen, I already got too salty for my poor heart
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
That's one lengthy way of avoiding to explain why you're nerfing the class xD
Perhaps you would like to explain why this is nerfing the class in your opinion. Give proper feedback instead of generic "oh this is bad".
I would gladly do that, had they asked for feedback from wizard mains, instead they got barbarian/paladin/rogue mains to playtest... and not even good ones at that. But ok ok Ima let the nerf happen, I already got too salty for my poor heart
Devs: Here are some bug fixes, and first set of public adjustments, give us feedback. You: Nah, not gonna give feedback because I didn't get invited to secret playtests.
Do you even know who was invited? I sure don't, and I'm sure they couldn't say do to NDAs. We have at least a month until M24 goes live...a LOT can change between now and then. If you truly care about the class, maybe don't leave at the first sign of things not going your way.
That's one lengthy way of avoiding to explain why you're nerfing the class xD
Perhaps you would like to explain why this is nerfing the class in your opinion. Give proper feedback instead of generic "oh this is bad".
From my standpoint, it looks at worst a net balance. 80% reduction in encounter usage during artifact calls, however most powers were also buffed by 20% (or more!). Also with the added benefit of addressing the cooldown bug.
The Arcanist rotation wasn't buffed or it's missing in the change log. As it stands the current capstone build on paper will do less damage thanks to AE nerf. Maybe there's another combination or Thauma that will take its place, but that's where the frustration is coming from. Also the reasons are explained in great detail in this thread multiple times. No reason to call out a sarcastic comment when the dev completely ignores the most pressing concerns that have been raised. The reaction is very reasonable.
Thank you for readdressing this for me. We are already in the 4th page so some things may fly under the radar or hidden in the wall of texts. Your reasoning makes sense to me as to why it's seen as a nerf.
(If Shield did 900 Mag on every hit, everyone would use it. That would be too much, though. Is its current Mag enough to make it tempting in some builds? I hope so, but I can't know for sure!)
For god sake no! This is such a bad idea from the design standpoint - Shield must be mediocre for all purposes because it is an all-in-one power. Shield being actually good in any aspect (HP, CC, DD) would make wizard way too overpowered compared to other classes.
Ok, lots of strong feelings about Arcane Empowerment, understandably so.
Let me try to explain my thinking. Lots of details involved, so hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Really appreciate the detailed explanation, @rgutscheradev. Arcane Empowerment is without doubt overpowered compared to any other daily in the class, but at the same time it's currently the only reason the class can just about keep up with others. I think the changes as they are will likely see a drop in Arcanist dps, but as long as its an ongoing (and collaborative) process to test the impact of changes on preview and adjust if needed, I don't think anyone can argue... well, they can, but they'd be wrong to.
One minor point: in version 2 (PowerRecharge), I can adjust by subtracting a % of the total cooldown instead of just 1s. Doing that would make Encounter spells with longer cooldowns a more viable choice for AE. So that's another option, if people want it.
I like that idea and think we should definitely try it out. Subtracting a % of the cooldown time seems the fairest way to enable all powers to be used effectively if choosing that daily.
Really appreciate the detailed explanation, @rgutscheradev. Arcane Empowerment is without doubt overpowered compared to any other daily in the class, but at the same time it's currently the only reason the class can just about keep up with others. I think the changes as they are will likely see a drop in Arcanist dps, but as long as its an ongoing (and collaborative) process to test the impact of changes on preview and adjust if needed, I don't think anyone can argue... well, they can, but they'd be wrong to.
My current thinking is something like a 10% damage buff to Arcanist powers across the board, if we see it's needed. I'd rather do that than have AE continue to be the one ring to rule them all.
Honestly at this point I don't know where the sum total of all these changes has landed, though. It's possible that Thaumaturge is now better than Arcanist, and that Arcanist needs some extra catchup. It's also quite possible that Arcanist is just fine. (Or that Thaum is OP! Did I overdo it with the Smolder buffs?) A lot of stuff has been buffed, one big thing has been (somewhat) nerfed... the nerf always grabs the attention, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's been a net loss. (And it doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't! It's just really hard to tell.)
My current thinking is something like a 10% damage buff to Arcanist powers across the board, if we see it's needed. I'd rather do that than have AE continue to be the one ring to rule them all.
The main powers that an Arcanist uses for single target Damage is: Entangling Force, Repel, Ray of Enfeeblement and Disintegrate! All of which did not receive any improvements that I can see (except 10% more encounter damage while AE is active), So it is a bit worrying when you reduce the effectiveness of AE without improving these main powers! All the other powers will only help with AoE damage improvement.
Removing the effect of not gaining action points while AE is active should help a fair bit. In the good old days (ToMM) Wizards could use x2 AE in 60s which would help them a bit more in damage in the current meta. Atm you need to be saving your Daily for every 60s during the Artifact call, and so anything in-between 30 to 60s of when you get your daily back is meaningless. It's either every 30s or 60s, no in-between. So if the Wizard cannot obtain a Daily within 30s of combat time, all it's action point bonuses become fairly meaningless, since you have to wait full 60s for the Artifact call then.
please fix lightning bolt bug where it doesn't hit anything at all , I will for sure be happy about that, plus if you dont fix that bug , the buff to lightning bolt wont even matter, plus its my favorite skill
My current thinking is something like a 10% damage buff to Arcanist powers across the board, if we see it's needed. I'd rather do that than have AE continue to be the one ring to rule them all.
The main powers that an Arcanist uses for single target Damage is: Entangling Force, Repel, Ray of Enfeeblement and Disintegrate! All of which did not receive any improvements that I can see (except 10% more encounter damage while AE is active), So it is a bit worrying when you reduce the effectiveness of AE without improving these main powers! All the other powers will only help with AoE damage improvement.
Removing the effect of not gaining action points while AE is active should help a fair bit. In the good old days (ToMM) Wizards could use x2 AE in 60s which would help them a bit more in damage in the current meta. Atm you need to be saving your Daily for every 60s during the Artifact call, and so anything in-between 30 to 60s of when you get your daily back is meaningless. It's either every 30s or 60s, no in-between. So if the Wizard cannot obtain a Daily within 30s of combat time, all it's action point bonuses become fairly meaningless, since you have to wait full 60s for the Artifact call then.
I feel the majority of damage dealt occurs during artifact calls, which should be the primary focus if you're talking about endgame single target balance. How much damage can you push out in a ~10-second window.
Generating AP while AE is active is beneficial, but I do not feel that will have an effect of balancing the Arcanist's single target damage.
I think to truly understand the impact of the proposed Archan Empowerment changes, it is critical to consider the powers typically used in single target rotations as well. For me, the main powers used in Archanist single target rotations are Ray of Enfeeblement, Disintegrate, Repel and Entangling Force. None of these spells get a magnitude boost under the propose changes, therefore, the these spells should be included in magnitude boost to compensate for the lost dps due to the AE changes. Also, I get roughly 12 spells during AE when using animation canceling, not 10. I checked on preview on both my CWs, Talia and Taja, at they actually have different CDs due to differences in recovery from builds. It's interesting to note that even 12 spells is actually about 70% of the theoretical maximum for my rotation, considering cast time and reduced CDs. I can only assume the difference is related to how quickly the AE animation can be canceled and any server/client lag.
Much of a wizards feats, and the spell storm class feature, are based on a percentage chance to process. So while a reduction of 12 to 8, or 10 to 8 from AE may seem small, it also has the cascading consequence of reducing other important processes, which all add to overall dps. Perhaps there is a way to make wizards more like other classes, in that they process these feats and features all the time at a set rate, or all the time at a lower magnitude. It really doesn't make sense to have a class that has random chances to process critical class feats and features. Further, the lower number of times you cast spells, as with the proposed AE changes, the less these critical feats and features will process. Another way to compensate for this would be to reduce the overall base CDs of spells so that they get cast more. Personally, I would like to see less RNG in how the class behaves.
I tend to do a ton of spreadsheet calculations for work (engineering consultant in RL) and I take the same approach to running calculations for damage in NW, so I appreciate the detailed explanation as to how the number for 5 to 3 came about. I actually calculated total damage differences based on AE adjusted magnitudes and cast times (specifically for ray of enfeeblement, disintegrate, repel and entangling force) plus the new CD time (Normal CD/5 vs Normal CD/3) to determine the relative difference in damage output, not considering the chance for feats or class features to process. I considered a little more detail, as I looked at the damage of each spell and how frequently it was cast in the 10 second period, both before and after the AE changes. Overall, It looks like roughly a 31% reduction in archanist single target damage during the critical artifact call time AE is typically used. Again, this doesn't consider the additional damage loss due to the Spell Storm changes, or other processes.
I will echo the comment above by d4rkh0rs3 that the a significant amount of damage is made during coordinated use of artifacts and mount powers, and being able to capitalize on this short time is of paramount importance. Having more spells cast in this short time increased the amount of damage significantly, and is not adequately reflected in the currently proposed anarchist adjustments, especially considering the single target spells most frequently used are left out of these adjustments.
Regarding thaum vs archanist, I'll have to see the changes when they go to preview. I currently play both paths, and I think I do decent at both based on trials, etc with people i know are pretty good. I will say that right now thaum lags far behind archanist, except for dragon fights where AE can be disrupted by stuns/freezes and other effect completely negating damage normally gained from dailys. In those cases, thaum is quite viable, as it is more a steady as you go type of dps path. Further, at dragons, and even in normal 5 person dungeon runs, the differences on timed dailys aren't as critical as they are in 10 person content, where the buffs and de-buffs are significantly greater during that brief artifact call.
Overall, any changes need to also be considered in the context of how the game is actually played. I'm curious, what precipitated the feeling for a need to change AE from 5x to 3x in the first place. This was never something I heard any wizard complain about. To me, it seems much simpler to keep AE as it is, and make slight adjustments to the magnitudes of ray of enfeeblement, disintegrate, repel and entangling force, to boost archanist wizard's single target damage slightly. Or if you want archanist single target damage to to be the same, just leave it as is. But in either case, a damage boot, or processing boost should be made to Spell Storm to compensate for the lost dps. Personally, I think increasing its chance to process would be the way to go.
I hope these above comments help to clarify the issues many of us are having specifically with the changes to both AE and Spell Storm. I'd be happy to do both normal runs or trials with you on both live and preview servers to help illuminate the points I've made above in actual in-game situations.
Please let me know if I can be of any help in resolving the above concerns.
My current thinking is something like a 10% damage buff to Arcanist powers across the board, if we see it's needed. I'd rather do that than have AE continue to be the one ring to rule them all.
For Arcane Empowerment, personally I will prefer a 10% increasing damage to Ray of Enfeeblement, Repel, Entangling Force and Disintegrate. For disintegrate I think it should be buffed more. Disintegrate should have a stronger magnitude than repel. 400-600 is low if you compare with the Warlock Killing Flame 650-975. The mechanics is not the same but the concept is the same => More Damage when target is low on HP
One thing that I noticed is, now Chilling Presence is no more a good alternative with the change. 0.5% should be increased at 1%. 6% at max in single target is more comparable with the 5% from the new Orb of Imposition. And 12% to frozen target is more comparable with the 10% from Evocation. Chilling presence need that you work to keep the stack and is part of one of the original mechanics of the wizard. And Chilling presence can be used by Arcanist and Thaumaturge.
“He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
I rarely/never use Arcane Empowerment with AE. AE is mostly used for trash clear, and stuff is dead in one rotation. For bosses you usually go with a ST loadout.
So basically it feels like an edge case(Arcane Empowerment on AE) is used to nerf the main case(Arcane Empowerment on ST). This will bring the overall dps of the class down. As was noted elsewhere, Arcane Empowerment on ST is the main dps carrier for wizards. It should be buffed rather than nerfed.
Really appreciate the detailed explanation, @rgutscheradev. Arcane Empowerment is without doubt overpowered compared to any other daily in the class, but at the same time it's currently the only reason the class can just about keep up with others. I think the changes as they are will likely see a drop in Arcanist dps, but as long as its an ongoing (and collaborative) process to test the impact of changes on preview and adjust if needed, I don't think anyone can argue... well, they can, but they'd be wrong to.
My current thinking is something like a 10% damage buff to Arcanist powers across the board, if we see it's needed. I'd rather do that than have AE continue to be the one ring to rule them all.
Honestly at this point I don't know where the sum total of all these changes has landed, though. It's possible that Thaumaturge is now better than Arcanist, and that Arcanist needs some extra catchup. It's also quite possible that Arcanist is just fine. (Or that Thaum is OP! Did I overdo it with the Smolder buffs?) A lot of stuff has been buffed, one big thing has been (somewhat) nerfed... the nerf always grabs the attention, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's been a net loss. (And it doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't! It's just really hard to tell.)
Hello There
I beleive one of the main reason for the uproar was not buffing current main Arcanist ST encounters and at-will which are namely: Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Repel, Disintegrate encounter and Ray of Frost at-will. 10% overall damage increase would involve them as well.
Regarding the Arcane Empowerment (AE) daily server-client issue I would be happy with Alacrity for 10 second if you mean that. Maybe even better for some rotations, it depends.
The only hard-request I would put in is the following: please remove "NO AP gain" block after casting AE daily. It does not make sense, especially after gutting Storm Pillar AP gain without hitting anything. Maybe even a bit of base AP gain buff would be great as well.
@rgutscheradev /HOWEVER: the bad part of this version would be that the cooldown meter would display, not the time left till the spell is ready, but the full time. In other words, on a 15s CD spell that you just cast, the current version shows (while AE is up) 5s... 4s... 3s... 2s... 1s... ready! But the new version would show 15s and then every 1s of real-world time, that 15s would go down by 3s. So you'd see the normal, unadjusted cooldowns, but the numbers would just go down much faster (in fact, 3x faster). Would people like that better? /
No. Thank you for considering alternative solutions. I am truly appreciative, and more so since from mod 18 nobody considered any solution, much less alternative ones. No. It is so counter intuitive and so not user-friendly that it will be unusable.
I understand that announcing an extra 30 min workbreak and setting the office clock ahead with 30 min achieve the same result of people working 30 min less, but the second scenario it would be so confusing, people will spend the work break to figure out what to do.
Not only it will be confusing, but people look at cooldowns and try to squeeze other actions in between casting spells. If cooldown say 15 sec but in reality is 5, even knowing that, in mist of actions, we will take the wrong decision.
Also we do not want to use long cooldown spells on Arcane Empowerment , because even with this new power recharge method, it is not worth it.
So it is so little to benefit from such an confusing change, that tries to fix a lot less confusing problem.
Thank you again. . P.S. Players that are not wizard mains please stop posting because the biases and lack of experience are evident. Yes, wizards are biased on their on thread, but that subjectivity it is already taken into consideration. Do not come here to play objective, because you are not, and some are plain hostile towards our class.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
edited September 2022
Ty for the explanation, its great when we can have this type of communication @rgutscheradev
Some points: - I think % cd reduction is better and more generic overall. Your %RechargeSpeed should apply, thats important to build diversity. The important thing is to not have the visual bug and do the same or more damage than now. - Your explanation to how to calculate numbers is great, but you didnt take into considerations procs. Encounter powers can proc things like gear (armor and helm for example) that is important to the final damage. Also other procs like feats (and stormspell was reduced), weapon enchant, lostmauth, artifact set like mithalar, etc. All together make a good portion of the damage, and help with the %stats (so more damage). - I would like to remove the restriction of gaining AP while AE but thats more of a personal thing. I usually recharge daily in ~40 secs, and I have to keep it the next 20 secs to sync with artifact / mount burst. - I understand changing Ligning bolt for Chain Lignhing is something that can be done in this changes, but please dont abandone
Also I would like to know if its doable to have more playstiles, instead of use all feats to do more dmg, feats that allow other builds. We will figure witch 2 feats do more dmg and wont change them forever. I will give you an example to make a stat like controlbonus desirable, and make a debuff build: - When you use a control power, there is a 20% chance that that the enemy %deflectSeverity is reduced by half your %ControlBonus for 10 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds.
Finally, I would like to give an idea about shield. It could be possible to give temp hp to all party members? It would be usable in group content, I also think that the cast time and animation is horrible to be used in combat
I would just like to add my name to the list of getting rid of no AP gain during Arcane empowerment. I mod the wizard discord and there seems to be an overwhelming agreement that we would like to see this happen
I’m holding off on other comments until these changes can be tested. But that one is a very popular and I think would be a massive improvement on the daily. Certainly to the point of putting it on preview to test its viability especially as you commented it would be an easy fix
I hope these above comments help to clarify the issues many of us are having specifically with the changes to both AE and Spell Storm. I'd be happy to do both normal runs or trials with you on both live and preview servers to help illuminate the points I've made above in actual in-game situations.
I think the contexts point is an important one. I would hope that - given the open communication displayed here - if a group of people were to present wizard ACT logs and relevant calculations/trends resulting from them, recorded in different contexts (trials with artefact calls, dragon hunts, dungeons, training room/dummy etc) on both preview and live, that the results would be used to make further changes if/where needed.
1.The reason AP gain was restricted during Arcane Empowerment was that by the time we finish daily we would have a new daily ready. But since that decision was made, all classes had extensive reworks and I truly do not know what is the medium number of ap gain per minute for dps classes. Also some classes use animation cancel with much more benefit than wizard can ever do, that must be taken into consideration.
2. If everybody test the same rotation with RoE on tab , that was NEVER the best rotation since mod 17, when ToMM was done with many wizards and the up time was 100, the test does not mean much. Also people publish guides where Entangling is not the 4 spell witch adds a 4 dot to the spell, dots benefiting from previous arcane stacks, because they do not play wizard.
3. Maybe is time to ditch RoE at all from rotation and use Arcane Conduit on tab and other feats. And maybe is high time for wizards to not feel pressured to buff other dps with RoE and then be thankful it is still invited.
Generating AP while AE is active is beneficial, but I do not feel that will have an effect of balancing the Arcanist's single target damage.
The intent, as I've said, would be to have the Wizard Arcanist with enough Action Point regen (in combo with the right build) to be able to cast a Daily power between Artifact calls, in addition of course to during the artifact call!
So with stacking all the reasonable action point regen sources, it would be cool to give the ability for the Wizard Arcanist to cast a Daily power every 30s. Making it so you can gain Action Points While in AE would help towards that!
1. Still waiting for somebody to name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill buffing others. 2. then name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill to buff all others EXCEPT itself. I am waiting.
1. Still waiting for somebody to name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill buffing others. 2. then name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill to buff all others EXCEPT itself. I am waiting.
I agree that Controlled Momentum should be a self buff.
For Arcane Empowerement if we can have AP gain while under the effect of AE and an increase of 10% to all single target arcane spells. I will want both.
But, if we need to choose, I will repeat myself, my choice will be 10% more damage to arcane spells.
“He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
1. Still waiting for somebody to name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill buffing others. 2. then name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill to buff all others EXCEPT itself. I am waiting.
For your first question, Rangers has a passive that gives everyone 5% CA which everyone expects you to have, BUT it does benefit from it itself. Controlled Momentum should benefit the wizard as well.
+10% damage to arcanist powers would be a very good thing, but what I would really like is for it to reduce the ice terrain cd by 3 seconds, this would directly improve the aoe damage of the class and help with rotation.
Someone with a lot of wisdom once explained to me that when a power has a difference of more than 3 seconds from the others, all rotation is damaged.
Comments
Since I'm a designer, I can make functionality changes to powers (although depending on the change, this can sometimes be time-consuming). And I can change raw numbers (this is almost always quick and easy, although deciding on the right number can sometimes be hard!). I can fix most (but not all) bugs, and the bugs I can't fix I have a decent chance of being able to get someone else to fix.
But what I can't do is make new art.
So a lot of ideas that I would really like to do (like totally revamp Lightning Bolt and Fireball) are beyond what's possible in this particular revamp. (I hope someday! I too am not happy with where Lightning Bolt and Fireball are. I have been poking the artists. :P)
Be aware that some things that might look like pure design issues can affect art. For example, changing cast times will cause a power to get out of synch with its art. But changing damage magnitudes or changing cooldown times is almost always OK from an art point of view.
And of course overall development time is always an issue. Given that I only have a certain amount of time, and given I can't completely revamp powers (if it changes the look), what can I do?
Mostly I've tried to emphasize two things:
* Fixing bugs, especially the really annoying ones, or the ones that dramatically lower the Wizards' power level, or that leave certain powers/feats/etc. totally useless.
* Increasing numbers, especially where it has a chance to bring marginal or bad powers to the point where they might be good picks. Even powers that seem terrible can become good with enough love. (If Shield did 900 Mag on every hit, everyone would use it. That would be too much, though. Is its current Mag enough to make it tempting in some builds? I hope so, but I can't know for sure!)
Part of what I'm wrestling with is that a rebuild of a power (even when it's possible) often consumes as much time as adjusting the numbers on 10 or 20 powers. So even though the latter might seem boring in comparison, it's often the best choice. Re-tuning 20 powers might bring 5 or 10 "dead" powers into circulation. Rebuilding 1 power might (or might not) help that 1 power, but that's all.
There's also a risk that powers become too similar and generic. If you're saying AE and Ice Knife are now similar in damage output over the same period of time, where are the different use cases? Maybe if you have a lot of gear that gives +encounter damage, then you could use AE. In case you can boost daily damage, go use Ice Knife. Problem is that in the current state of the game, gear that boosts a power category only makes sense for capped players. So the difference in the dailies becomes marginal.
I'd suggest giving powers more of a distinct opportunity cost. Like let AE be the machine gun it is, and maybe up the damage bonus it gives. But then apply a recharge and damage malus for 10 seconds after AE. That way you can go all in on artifact calls for example, or use Ice Knife for a more reliable source of damage. Ditching "you can't gain AP while AE is running" would also be required to continue to bring powers on par.
Speaking of Ice Knife: TR Assassins have two dailies with 2000 and 2200 magnitude plus utility. So Ice Knife should have 2200 as well.
From my standpoint, it looks at worst a net balance. 80% reduction in encounter usage during artifact calls, however most powers were also buffed by 20% (or more!). Also with the added benefit of addressing the cooldown bug.
You: Nah, not gonna give feedback because I didn't get invited to secret playtests.
Do you even know who was invited? I sure don't, and I'm sure they couldn't say do to NDAs. We have at least a month until M24 goes live...a LOT can change between now and then. If you truly care about the class, maybe don't leave at the first sign of things not going your way. Thank you for readdressing this for me. We are already in the 4th page so some things may fly under the radar or hidden in the wall of texts. Your reasoning makes sense to me as to why it's seen as a nerf.
Honestly at this point I don't know where the sum total of all these changes has landed, though. It's possible that Thaumaturge is now better than Arcanist, and that Arcanist needs some extra catchup. It's also quite possible that Arcanist is just fine. (Or that Thaum is OP! Did I overdo it with the Smolder buffs?) A lot of stuff has been buffed, one big thing has been (somewhat) nerfed... the nerf always grabs the attention, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's been a net loss. (And it doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't! It's just really hard to tell.)
Removing the effect of not gaining action points while AE is active should help a fair bit. In the good old days (ToMM) Wizards could use x2 AE in 60s which would help them a bit more in damage in the current meta. Atm you need to be saving your Daily for every 60s during the Artifact call, and so anything in-between 30 to 60s of when you get your daily back is meaningless. It's either every 30s or 60s, no in-between. So if the Wizard cannot obtain a Daily within 30s of combat time, all it's action point bonuses become fairly meaningless, since you have to wait full 60s for the Artifact call then.
Generating AP while AE is active is beneficial, but I do not feel that will have an effect of balancing the Arcanist's single target damage.
Much of a wizards feats, and the spell storm class feature, are based on a percentage chance to process. So while a reduction of 12 to 8, or 10 to 8 from AE may seem small, it also has the cascading consequence of reducing other important processes, which all add to overall dps. Perhaps there is a way to make wizards more like other classes, in that they process these feats and features all the time at a set rate, or all the time at a lower magnitude. It really doesn't make sense to have a class that has random chances to process critical class feats and features. Further, the lower number of times you cast spells, as with the proposed AE changes, the less these critical feats and features will process. Another way to compensate for this would be to reduce the overall base CDs of spells so that they get cast more. Personally, I would like to see less RNG in how the class behaves.
I tend to do a ton of spreadsheet calculations for work (engineering consultant in RL) and I take the same approach to running calculations for damage in NW, so I appreciate the detailed explanation as to how the number for 5 to 3 came about. I actually calculated total damage differences based on AE adjusted magnitudes and cast times (specifically for ray of enfeeblement, disintegrate, repel and entangling force) plus the new CD time (Normal CD/5 vs Normal CD/3) to determine the relative difference in damage output, not considering the chance for feats or class features to process. I considered a little more detail, as I looked at the damage of each spell and how frequently it was cast in the 10 second period, both before and after the AE changes. Overall, It looks like roughly a 31% reduction in archanist single target damage during the critical artifact call time AE is typically used. Again, this doesn't consider the additional damage loss due to the Spell Storm changes, or other processes.
I will echo the comment above by d4rkh0rs3 that the a significant amount of damage is made during coordinated use of artifacts and mount powers, and being able to capitalize on this short time is of paramount importance. Having more spells cast in this short time increased the amount of damage significantly, and is not adequately reflected in the currently proposed anarchist adjustments, especially considering the single target spells most frequently used are left out of these adjustments.
Regarding thaum vs archanist, I'll have to see the changes when they go to preview. I currently play both paths, and I think I do decent at both based on trials, etc with people i know are pretty good. I will say that right now thaum lags far behind archanist, except for dragon fights where AE can be disrupted by stuns/freezes and other effect completely negating damage normally gained from dailys. In those cases, thaum is quite viable, as it is more a steady as you go type of dps path. Further, at dragons, and even in normal 5 person dungeon runs, the differences on timed dailys aren't as critical as they are in 10 person content, where the buffs and de-buffs are significantly greater during that brief artifact call.
Overall, any changes need to also be considered in the context of how the game is actually played. I'm curious, what precipitated the feeling for a need to change AE from 5x to 3x in the first place. This was never something I heard any wizard complain about. To me, it seems much simpler to keep AE as it is, and make slight adjustments to the magnitudes of ray of enfeeblement, disintegrate, repel and entangling force, to boost archanist wizard's single target damage slightly. Or if you want archanist single target damage to to be the same, just leave it as is. But in either case, a damage boot, or processing boost should be made to Spell Storm to compensate for the lost dps. Personally, I think increasing its chance to process would be the way to go.
I hope these above comments help to clarify the issues many of us are having specifically with the changes to both AE and Spell Storm. I'd be happy to do both normal runs or trials with you on both live and preview servers to help illuminate the points I've made above in actual in-game situations.
Please let me know if I can be of any help in resolving the above concerns.
- Talia, Taja and a host of other toons
Ray of Enfeeblement, Repel, Entangling Force and Disintegrate. For disintegrate I think it should be buffed more.
Disintegrate should have a stronger magnitude than repel.
400-600 is low if you compare with the Warlock Killing Flame 650-975.
The mechanics is not the same but the concept is the same => More Damage when target is low on HP
One thing that I noticed is, now Chilling Presence is no more a good alternative with the change.
0.5% should be increased at 1%.
6% at max in single target is more comparable with the 5% from the new Orb of Imposition.
And 12% to frozen target is more comparable with the 10% from Evocation.
Chilling presence need that you work to keep the stack and is part of one of the original mechanics of the wizard.
And Chilling presence can be used by Arcanist and Thaumaturge.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
So basically it feels like an edge case(Arcane Empowerment on AE) is used to nerf the main case(Arcane Empowerment on ST). This will bring the overall dps of the class down. As was noted elsewhere, Arcane Empowerment on ST is the main dps carrier for wizards. It should be buffed rather than nerfed.
I beleive one of the main reason for the uproar was not buffing current main Arcanist ST encounters and at-will which are namely: Ray of Enfeeblement, Entangling Force, Repel, Disintegrate encounter and Ray of Frost at-will. 10% overall damage increase would involve them as well.
Regarding the Arcane Empowerment (AE) daily server-client issue I would be happy with Alacrity for 10 second if you mean that. Maybe even better for some rotations, it depends.
The only hard-request I would put in is the following: please remove "NO AP gain" block after casting AE daily. It does not make sense, especially after gutting Storm Pillar AP gain without hitting anything. Maybe even a bit of base AP gain buff would be great as well.
Cheers
/HOWEVER: the bad part of this version would be that the cooldown meter would display, not the time left till the spell is ready, but the full time. In other words, on a 15s CD spell that you just cast, the current version shows (while AE is up) 5s... 4s... 3s... 2s... 1s... ready! But the new version would show 15s and then every 1s of real-world time, that 15s would go down by 3s. So you'd see the normal, unadjusted cooldowns, but the numbers would just go down much faster (in fact, 3x faster). Would people like that better? /
No.
Thank you for considering alternative solutions. I am truly appreciative, and more so since from mod 18 nobody considered any solution, much less alternative ones.
No.
It is so counter intuitive and so not user-friendly that it will be unusable.
I understand that announcing an extra 30 min workbreak and setting the office clock ahead with 30 min achieve the same result of people working 30 min less, but the second scenario it would be so confusing, people will spend the work break to figure out what to do.
Not only it will be confusing, but people look at cooldowns and try to squeeze other actions in between casting spells. If cooldown say 15 sec but in reality is 5, even knowing that, in mist of actions, we will take the wrong decision.
Also we do not want to use long cooldown spells on Arcane Empowerment , because even with this new power recharge method, it is not worth it.
So it is so little to benefit from such an confusing change, that tries to fix a lot less confusing problem.
Thank you again.
.
P.S. Players that are not wizard mains please stop posting because the biases and lack of experience are evident.
Yes, wizards are biased on their on thread, but that subjectivity it is already taken into consideration. Do not come here to play objective, because you are not, and some are plain hostile towards our class.
Some points:
- I think % cd reduction is better and more generic overall. Your %RechargeSpeed should apply, thats important to build diversity. The important thing is to not have the visual bug and do the same or more damage than now.
- Your explanation to how to calculate numbers is great, but you didnt take into considerations procs. Encounter powers can proc things like gear (armor and helm for example) that is important to the final damage. Also other procs like feats (and stormspell was reduced), weapon enchant, lostmauth, artifact set like mithalar, etc. All together make a good portion of the damage, and help with the %stats (so more damage).
- I would like to remove the restriction of gaining AP while AE but thats more of a personal thing. I usually recharge daily in ~40 secs, and I have to keep it the next 20 secs to sync with artifact / mount burst.
- I understand changing Ligning bolt for Chain Lignhing is something that can be done in this changes, but please dont abandone
Also I would like to know if its doable to have more playstiles, instead of use all feats to do more dmg, feats that allow other builds. We will figure witch 2 feats do more dmg and wont change them forever.
I will give you an example to make a stat like controlbonus desirable, and make a debuff build:
- When you use a control power, there is a 20% chance that that the enemy %deflectSeverity is reduced by half your %ControlBonus for 10 seconds. Cooldown 20 seconds.
Finally, I would like to give an idea about shield. It could be possible to give temp hp to all party members? It would be usable in group content, I also think that the cast time and animation is horrible to be used in combat
Thank you for your work and communication!
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I mod the wizard discord and there seems to be an overwhelming agreement that we would like to see this happen
I’m holding off on other comments until these changes can be tested. But that one is a very popular and I think would be a massive improvement on the daily. Certainly to the point of putting it on preview to test its viability especially as you commented it would be an easy fix
But since that decision was made, all classes had extensive reworks and I truly do not know what is the medium number of ap gain per minute for dps classes.
Also some classes use animation cancel with much more benefit than wizard can ever do, that must be taken into consideration.
2. If everybody test the same rotation with RoE on tab , that was NEVER the best rotation since mod 17, when ToMM was done with many wizards and the up time was 100, the test does not mean much.
Also people publish guides where Entangling is not the 4 spell witch adds a 4 dot to the spell, dots benefiting from previous arcane stacks, because they do not play wizard.
3. Maybe is time to ditch RoE at all from rotation and use Arcane Conduit on tab and other feats.
And maybe is high time for wizards to not feel pressured to buff other dps with RoE and then be thankful it is still invited.
So with stacking all the reasonable action point regen sources, it would be cool to give the ability for the Wizard Arcanist to cast a Daily power every 30s. Making it so you can gain Action Points While in AE would help towards that!
2. then name a dps class that has as mandatory Class Skill to buff all others EXCEPT itself.
I am waiting.
For Arcane Empowerement if we can have AP gain while under the effect of AE and an increase of 10% to all single target arcane spells. I will want both.
But, if we need to choose, I will repeat myself, my choice will be 10% more damage to arcane spells.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
Someone with a lot of wisdom once explained to me that when a power has a difference of more than 3 seconds from the others, all rotation is damaged.