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Band of Air, Movement Rate, and Dungeon Queues
juniperwuf
Member Posts: 142 Arc User
It is Battlepass time again. I HAVE to do a Dungeon Queue. I shudder. I get into a queue after a 10 minute wait. We are doing Temple of the Spider-- pretty easy for me. The announcement tells me there is a new player. Before I can even finish reading that, 3 players have taken off running. Obviously they have massive speed buffs and seem to be a group. I run after them, but they have decimated enough spiders to move on. There are a few left, so I clean those out. New player is coming along slowly. I know that if I do not keep up with the group, they will vote kick me, but I really feel that the new player needs some consideration. So, I try to make sure I am at the circle when it says "Your Group is Waiting on You". But New player cannot get there because the Big Three left enough monsters behind to give him trouble. I went back for the new player every time.
At the end, my kill stats were very poor (I have been at the top of that board many times just BTW). I am told I need to GET GOOD. I am good. I am great. I went back for my team mate. I left no one behind.
I have actually done a small exercise where I went into some skirmishes with just myself and one other player in a private queue. We were able to successfully finish those skirmishes with no deaths by moving slowly, taking advantage of strategy, environment, and knowledge of the enemy. We did not rush. Being able to finish something in record time because you have the biggest sword does not make you a good player. Chasing the best gear so you can get high score on the boards is not what makes you a good player.
I also contribute to my guild, building guild time into my playing every day-- going on quests that give my guild currency they need, supporting other players in the guild who need help getting through something difficult, etc. When playing on open map, I am careful to leave 1 item in a skill node so others can have it too. I try hard not to "steal kills" from other people or take their quest objectives from them. In heroics, if people come in late, I step back and make sure they get some hits in. These, to me, are the things that make a good player.
All that said, this is why the Band of Air is being nerfed. It impacts on the playing experience of others. I come to play, not to see people kill everything and run. More nerfs are needed. For example, make those move speeds only apply in open maps and in COMBAT during the queues. Or, put up more "Grouping Gates" so the people have to stop sooner. Do something about the kicking rules. And, players, if you are that strong and have your own little group, queue up in private. Let the rest of us have some fun, too.
I applaud Cryptic's stance on this concept.
Now, what is making people behave like this (other than sheer ego)? A couple of things--
1. we are being forced into queues because of things like the Battlepass campaigns.
2. The rewards are considered to be so poor that people do not even stop to pick up treasure so they simply want to get to the end and grab what loot they can
As another example, I was in Throne of the Dwarven Gods one night. I was brought in as a replacement. I went into the game and it was Phase 2 where we were supposed to be fighting as many enemies as possible. I jumped right in and realized there were 3 players just sitting on the steps. One was posting in the chat window that there was no reason to fight those monsters-- just let the timer run down. And then they posted how stupid people were to fight because they just didn't understand the dungeons and should learn this stuff. They also posted it made no difference in the final reward.
Well, that may be true. I do not know. I come to play not sit and chat. But this is the problem that needs fixing. Running, refusing to play, letting teammates die, kicking, etc. Are these really the signs of "Good Players"?
I am old (70) and maybe I have a different mindset. I played D&D from the early beginnings in the 70's. I was a dungeon master for 30+ years. I ALWAYS rewarded teamwork, good player behavior, and creative play skills. But I guess my values are really old-fashioned, outdated, and useless.
At the end, my kill stats were very poor (I have been at the top of that board many times just BTW). I am told I need to GET GOOD. I am good. I am great. I went back for my team mate. I left no one behind.
I have actually done a small exercise where I went into some skirmishes with just myself and one other player in a private queue. We were able to successfully finish those skirmishes with no deaths by moving slowly, taking advantage of strategy, environment, and knowledge of the enemy. We did not rush. Being able to finish something in record time because you have the biggest sword does not make you a good player. Chasing the best gear so you can get high score on the boards is not what makes you a good player.
I also contribute to my guild, building guild time into my playing every day-- going on quests that give my guild currency they need, supporting other players in the guild who need help getting through something difficult, etc. When playing on open map, I am careful to leave 1 item in a skill node so others can have it too. I try hard not to "steal kills" from other people or take their quest objectives from them. In heroics, if people come in late, I step back and make sure they get some hits in. These, to me, are the things that make a good player.
All that said, this is why the Band of Air is being nerfed. It impacts on the playing experience of others. I come to play, not to see people kill everything and run. More nerfs are needed. For example, make those move speeds only apply in open maps and in COMBAT during the queues. Or, put up more "Grouping Gates" so the people have to stop sooner. Do something about the kicking rules. And, players, if you are that strong and have your own little group, queue up in private. Let the rest of us have some fun, too.
I applaud Cryptic's stance on this concept.
Now, what is making people behave like this (other than sheer ego)? A couple of things--
1. we are being forced into queues because of things like the Battlepass campaigns.
2. The rewards are considered to be so poor that people do not even stop to pick up treasure so they simply want to get to the end and grab what loot they can
As another example, I was in Throne of the Dwarven Gods one night. I was brought in as a replacement. I went into the game and it was Phase 2 where we were supposed to be fighting as many enemies as possible. I jumped right in and realized there were 3 players just sitting on the steps. One was posting in the chat window that there was no reason to fight those monsters-- just let the timer run down. And then they posted how stupid people were to fight because they just didn't understand the dungeons and should learn this stuff. They also posted it made no difference in the final reward.
Well, that may be true. I do not know. I come to play not sit and chat. But this is the problem that needs fixing. Running, refusing to play, letting teammates die, kicking, etc. Are these really the signs of "Good Players"?
I am old (70) and maybe I have a different mindset. I played D&D from the early beginnings in the 70's. I was a dungeon master for 30+ years. I ALWAYS rewarded teamwork, good player behavior, and creative play skills. But I guess my values are really old-fashioned, outdated, and useless.
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Unfortunately there just isn't a way to force players to act differently, so instead, we change who we group with. A good guild or alliance of like minded people can help improve your experience. Also keep in mind that the general public will have a higher concentration of players who are new and not in a guild yet, or those who just can't stay in a guild and are toxic in some way.
You’re the bestest Neverwinter player, you’re on top, you’re good, you’re great, the most virtuous in and out of the game… but you seem to think this is an issue of other players’ ego… yeah I think this would require a little more (self-)awareness, and I’m not talking about the in game stat…
Let me give my point of view. I’m playing a paladin 95% of the time, both parangon, so I don’t have much room to pull that kind of hit and run stunt, but I’m all for speeding up dungeons by all means. This allows me to maybe squeeze in an extra run or two in my very limited game time of the day (I’ve yet to retire unfortunately). If people can run ahead of me and hold themselves together, I’ll thank them for being granted passage effortlessly, I’ll even grab the gems and coins along the way. If they do it and they just die, I’ll drop them an applause emotes on their dead bodies while I litteraly face tank the mobs or heal myself forever, that will teach them (also doing that on tanks that pull everything and think they will just sit here taking much more damage than they should, doing nothing while they give me extra work as a healer)
I’d like to think that this is the general concensus, that people only rush in to get things done quick for everyone in a helpful way, and not necessarily to need to be the top paingiver like you tend to project on people, but maybe the truth lies more in between, who knows...
Now sure if people get left behind and can’t progress, that’s not a good look, and also very counterproductive. But again is it really the intent every time? I can’t count how many times in MSPC one guy stays in the bonfire for 5 minutes while the rest progress, and then they start moving when everyone is at the end of the way and manage to open every portal they find. Or people in Ravenloft, or Temple of the spider, or Karrundax lair or etc etc… with people going out on their own to check every dead end possible to pick up fights with everything, especially new players who think dungeons are like solo.
I get that it can be frustrating if it’s your first time running things and you want to experience it to the fullest but if you’re choosing to run it with randoms, most likely they’ve done it hundreds of times and they don’t necessarily want to do it your way. And this is why you can form groups pre emptively and do private runs, so that you can do it the way you like most. Hardly anything is forced on you, battle pass ain’t nothing, there are more efficient ways to earn the stuff in it if this is stuff you need (outside of the exclusive paid stuff obviously).
Most content is hardly challenging, not that I’m complaining, but again if we can be done quick and efficiently, please be my guest, I don’t really mind if it’s not the most epic and stylish way of doing things. And if you want big difficulties and super strategic content, you always have the end game master trials, hardcore end game dungeons and the likes…
Alright, I spent a little too much time on that so I’ll get quick for the rest of it.
Band of air: fixing the overabundance of procs? Sure. Nerfing damage to the point the item is useless? No, bad, now this item has barely any purpose without even a newer replacement, just overnight like that.
Nerf speed? What the hell man, I love speed, Cryptic, give me three times more speed please. Come on we’re not playing Divinity Original Sin (but I still love the series anyway)
Kick system: oh yes, this needs rework. I’d say give one per dungeon, way too many grifters sitting at the bonfire just because random queue didn’t choose the dungeons they liked. What the hell are you doing, that’s exactly the point of randomness. They waste time for everyone just because they don’t have it their way, I just hate it. You want to go early? Take your penalty like a responsible adult please. Even worse those who pull out a sign post and go in PE waiting for a kick, I abbhore them, if it was on me they’d get a three day ban each time they’d do it.
People who just afk skirmishes: yeah if find it boring too, but that’s more of a design issue. They should add something like losing conditions, or make the ranks meaningful again reward wise, like a big RAD bonus, or some exclusive cosmetics or whatever. On the other hand, they should balance it so i’s possible to achieve them (because damn some are barely possible, I’m thinking phase 1-2 of PoM or phase 3 McBH for example), cause this definitely contributes to people not giving a damn about them too.
You are leaving a trash item in the skill node so it doesn't reset. The next player wastes a skill kit and only gets the item you left. Until the node is emptied it will not reset so you aren't doing any favors here. They could have used that kit on an unadulterated node and gotten the expected rewards.
I really like how people call themselves good, because they believe that their way of playing is the only right one and anyone who has a different view is automatically bad.
What you consider a good game, for me it is not. I do not derive pleasure from doing the same dungeon or skirmish for the 1567th time. I don't get excited about rummaging through a garbage dump, where you can find at most a few pieces of silver 2 black pearls and once in 10 a green insignia, and I really don't know why players rummage through it.
I don't feel the need to wait for a tank who, despite the band of air nerf, still can't hold aggro and for a new player who brings nothing to the game except pressing the "help" button.
The new players got easy to get gear that raises their item level, craptic gave away a lot of items/mounts/companions suitable for them and I don't really see why they should be so paltry. But apparently the newbies don't want to make a minimal effort to improve their game. And it would be enough to ask a good player of their class about the build, see what kind of items he has and try to use what he has. Too difficult?
Back to the meritum.
Why do you consider it right to force us to your style of play and reprehensible to adapt to ours? After all, this is pure hypocrisy.
For your pleasure I have to do dungeon an hour instead of 15 minutes?
Before you tell me that I can get my pt, don't forget that you can too. Everyone can.
There are many things in this game I love, many things in this game I don't like. But most of all, I dislike people who try to impose their style of play on me and call for nerfs of everything, because they themselves are too lazy/sh*tty to reach for them.
As for calling for another nerfs... So many good items have been neferd. After BoA nerf I haven't seen big change between players. Those who was weak, they are still weak, those who was good they doing content longer. Gap between good player and new player with shiny things is huge.
I'm doing randoms with random people and I can't imagine doing it in the way you described. I did these dungeons hundreds if not thousands of times. I don't have time and patience to do it slowly and wait for players who opens chests with silver and black pearls. And for some of them, it's their life goal. How I can be nice and helpful in such situation: On second boss in frozen heart healer ignoring everything and running to one of these trash cans. When I gently explained mimics mechanic in Lomm, new guy called me elitist and refused listening me. Well, after few such situations I changed my attitude. I'm not against new players, but it's not like you describing. Now I care for my enjoyment more. Many of them not even trying to keep up with group, they staying behind and luring mobs. They are more like a burden.
I am simply saying that, if you do not want more and more nerfs, perhaps you should pay attention to Cryptic's stated mission that ALL players should have a good playing experience. Co-operation, moderation, and compromise go a long way to making good player experiences. As I said, I am 70 years old. I have seen the world from both sides and believe we should learn to be kind, even when playing a game. I am not forcing you, just asking nicely.
You saw hatred. You considered from above that we are calling names and and insult other players, because we did not agree with your theses.
I understand that only your impressions of the game are important, mine are no longer relevant. The important thing is that you and your ilk have fun, and if someone is disturbed, lacks time, patience and doesn't like certain content, it automatically means that he is toxic.
You make bold claims that we are also bad jerks in real life.
Well, thank you for proving that it's not even worth trying to bend to others, because they judge you from their point of view anyway. And at the end you call yourself a "good, nice person" lol, really?
You say you've lived your life, but you divide the world into black and white, leaving out other shades.
I did not call YOU a jerk or say that you are a jerk in real life. I simply said there ARE jerks in real life just as there ARE good people in real life. Please do not put words to my name that were not there and were never intended to be there. I do not divide the world into black and white or I would not be calling for compromise.
Not sure where all this is coming from but please do not continue to twist my words into your vision of what you think I am saying. Sorry if I have offended you in some way. That was never my intent. My intent is to say that when we do not play nice, Cryptic takes some means to make it so. If you do not like the nerfs...
As for your thoughts on me-- I will give you back YOUR words: Everyone sees what they want to see.
Skill nodes are different. Once looted they go away but until the last item is taken, they retain whatever items were left in it. This has been the behavior since beta. Additionally, there is a hidden mechanic to stop bottings of nodes that flags a player to overfarms nodes to get only trash drops, worth a few coppers like the Robe of Useless Items stuff. Because of the normal behavior of nodes, someone who starts getting those trash drops and doesn't take them, leaves the trash for the next player. If you open a node, take all items every time to avoid griefing other players.
Strange, because you were responding to, among other things, my post, so somehow it had to do with what I wrote.
Yes I do have fun in the game, however, not in what you do. I don't find it fun to kill every mob on the map when it can be avoided, or to laboriously perform meaningless actions if they can be skipped.
As for the experience of the game... Yesterday from the random we hit a skirmish "manycoins bank heist". Beside us was also thamaturg 28k, whose main activity was spamming the "help" button. When everyone were busy killing mobs he wrote in chat "wake up!, afk people!" because no one rushed to help him. Not only was he useless as a dps (he made less dmg than a tank), he also inflicted us to sacrifice ourselves and the fate of the skirmish in order to pick him up every now and then.
Each of us had scrolls that he used when needed, only he was the only one who expected attentiveness. Do you think this improved my experience of the game?
Behold, no.
is it possible that it is different on different systems? Or perhaps it is different if you are grouped? I tried this evening with a friend at a skill node at Neverdeath (arcane node). He, being a wizard, opened the node and removed the pearl, leaving the grimoire. I used a kit (or 3 as 2 broke), opened the node and it had the grimoire plus a green insignia in it. His leaving an item allowed the node to not disappear and then I was able to open it with both items present. Each person can only open it once this way; if you open it again it will only have what you left in it. I had trouble with this on some maps in the past, notably Vellosk, but have had it work on several other maps when I was playing in a group.
As I said, this is how my original guild taught us to do this, so perhaps it is the grouping or the system that makes a difference? If you know more please let me know as I do not want to mess these up for other players. Thank you again.
I am on console (Xbox), not PC as well. Like I said, I started playing about the time Undermountain hit and at that time, the older members in the guild took us newbies through and told us that was the way to do it to make sure the skill node did not disappear. I know it worked for us then in the areas at the time. I had not tested it in several years until you mentioned I was leaving bad stuff. It was so ingrained into us at that time that I even do it to skill nodes when running solo in lairs like Biggrin's tomb. Just a habit from those first days, LOL. I know a lot of people do not even bother with skill nodes, but there is a stronghold quest for chipped mugs that yields influence, so a lot of times I just take the mug. It is certainly easier to hit x and take everything, so makes my life simpler.
Yes, I have run into those non interactable chests and nodes. Seems to me I have even seen an arcane one here or there in the leveling areas now as well.