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Scaling needs to either be removed or adjusted!

The introduction of scaling in the game has destroyed any sense of progression. We now take considerably longer to finish content we completed thousands of times with awful rewards at the end. In my opinion scaling has contributed largely for the huge increase in waiting times when qeueing solo for random dungeons because no one wants to qeue anymore due to constant failures to complete the content.

If you will keep insisting on having scaled qeues and content, at least consider doing adjustments to it. It's ridiculous as an end game player to get into old skirmishes and dungeons and take more damage than in more recent content... the combat advantage dealt by mobs is unbalanced, it doesn't make the content harder, it makes the content frustrating and not fun to play...

Why are events like Siege of Neverwinter scaled??? I have done this event every time since it was available and never died as much as now or felt so weak as in the last 2 due to the horrible scaling. My character is end game with all Bis gear and maxed stats...

This needs to be addressed as soon as possible, what's the point of keep chasing the end game items, higher item level, invest in our characters so we feel powerful if we get scaled down in 98% of the content!?!? Makes absolutely no sense, kills any sense of progression and acomplishment...

If the main reason for this is so lower players can "experience" the content, than scale them up a bit but don't scale us down...

Please consider adjusting scaling if it's something you going to keep in the game, as it stands now it's just horrible and the only thing it's doing is remove all sense of progression from our characters... and any incentive to keep playing...

Thank you, Tuga out

Comments

  • you8me#8425 you8me Member Posts: 1 New User
    Agree completely, scaling should not be a flat, across the board feature. Scaling just penalises players, the more they put into they’re toons gear/enchants/bolster ect, the more gets taken away in scaled content. I’m not against scaling players UP, so they can enjoy newer content, especially new players. Giving players more choice of what difficulty they would like to run a dungeon, like the tales of old, or how the upcoming dragon hunts system seems to be shaping up, would give people the chance to challenge themselves if they desired.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    Not all about scaling is bad, but is punishing for players that invest more.

    Keep in mind that an end game player will have access to better gear also that is good in scaling like band of air or other items that give better bonuses you only can get in end game content.

    That being said, I think they could implement something to make this a little better, here are 2 ideas:

    1) At some points in item level, you get bonuses (and you keep those bonuses even if scaled), for example: 40k IL -> 2% more dmg, 50k IL -> 2% dmg resistance, etc. they could be more imaginative ofc.

    2) Give players a bonus proportional to the scaled, so the more scaled you are you get bigger bonus. For example, scaled from 70k to 20k (50k difference) -> 5% bonus to dmg and dmg resist (also an example could be anything)

    Anyway this should be done carefully because you could trivialize content again, and thats just the oposite of what they want with scaling: Newer players when grouping with more advanced players do feel like they can be part of the group, not only follow the players while they stomp everything.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    The Game isn’t casual anymore and the scaling reflects this. After level 20 you either commit to the game or move on.
  • satatomo#9974 satatomo Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    The end game is not well thought out enough for anyone to be "committed". They need 4-5X legitimately thought out epic difficulty dungeons/trials to have something to "commit" to. Cryptic's "commitment" to having more parties fail random ques is a big part of the failure to win back paying players and a particularly low intelligence approach to converting F2P casuals to Zen purchasers. Growing ZAX delays do not lie. More Bears with HONEY(not bear traps!)
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    I agree. But this is Cryptic, they never use honey. On the great 5 day ps blackout the compensation was forgettable and insignificant.

    But there you are. Everything is hard. Just walking out of the stronghold is hard if you accidentally aggro a mob.

    There is no more casual, and it’s not even worth buying out content because you don’t get a return on the investment because boons are no longer as important as they were.

    So it’s grind grind grind and hope your account has good RNG because if you got a bad algorithm it will take that much longer.
  • killerrabbit#3173 killerrabbit Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I too am frustrated by the scaling down as it stands. To have elite gear and enchants etc. yet to be penalized for using it is antigaminng. Case in Point, My warlock has all the dragonslayer gear, mastered weapon set, mythic enchants, companions and mounts, 74k IL. Doing randoms and getting out damaged by 10 million to someone who doesn't have half the stuff I have and 10k IL lower. This is simply wrong. Why even bother getting good stuff? I know nothing will change but so be it
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 926 Arc User
    edited August 2022
    @killerrabbit Try not to use items which give insufficient combined rating. If you do not need it as IL unlock, there is no point in using for example combat enchantment or some mount collars. Those items serve purely as IL unlocks and otherwise just weight you down.

    And... there is a skill in question as well. Those guys who outshine you might be simply better. ;)
    And... bugs and broken effects, of course. :D
  • chaderickrax#3780 chaderickrax Member Posts: 245 Arc User

    I too am frustrated by the scaling down as it stands. To have elite gear and enchants etc. yet to be penalized for using it is antigaminng. Case in Point, My warlock has all the dragonslayer gear, mastered weapon set, mythic enchants, companions and mounts, 74k IL. Doing randoms and getting out damaged by 10 million to someone who doesn't have half the stuff I have and 10k IL lower. This is simply wrong. Why even bother getting good stuff? I know nothing will change but so be it

    I still think of this as coming to my bi-weekly D&D game with the character that I have worked very hard to get to 20th level over the course of years, only to have my DM tell me that this game is going to be really hard. It's going to be so hard, in fact, that he's changing my level to 10 for this session.

    No. Not going to happen.

    We worked for this. Hard. I understand the purpose, but...especially in a place like the Well of Dragons, where scaling never existed and serves absolutely no purpose...no.

    Scaling is one of the only things that I can imagine getting me to walk away from Neverwinter, in spite of the time and the money (more than I'll admit) that I've dropped on it.

  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User

    I too am frustrated by the scaling down as it stands. To have elite gear and enchants etc. yet to be penalized for using it is antigaminng. Case in Point, My warlock has all the dragonslayer gear, mastered weapon set, mythic enchants, companions and mounts, 74k IL. Doing randoms and getting out damaged by 10 million to someone who doesn't have half the stuff I have and 10k IL lower. This is simply wrong. Why even bother getting good stuff? I know nothing will change but so be it

    I still think of this as coming to my bi-weekly D&D game with the character that I have worked very hard to get to 20th level over the course of years, only to have my DM tell me that this game is going to be really hard. It's going to be so hard, in fact, that he's changing my level to 10 for this session.

    No. Not going to happen.

    We worked for this. Hard. I understand the purpose, but...especially in a place like the Well of Dragons, where scaling never existed and serves absolutely no purpose...no.

    Scaling is one of the only things that I can imagine getting me to walk away from Neverwinter, in spite of the time and the money (more than I'll admit) that I've dropped on it.

    What a bad example!!

    The main purpose of the DM is to create a good story and engage players, but also give players a challenge according to their power level. No matter if you are level 1, 10 or 20, the DM should allways balance the combats according to your power. This is the core of DnD and other roleplaying games.

    you can agree or not with scaling but your example is just a good example if you want to DEFEND scaling
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • ozivois#3522 ozivois Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    From everything I see, scaling is working just fine. High level players still are the most effective by far, and completing content, queues, etc. is trivial for high IL groups. Maybe high level players cannot solo Heroic Encounters anymore, but those are designed for 10 players, so…
  • chaderickrax#3780 chaderickrax Member Posts: 245 Arc User

    From everything I see, scaling is working just fine. High level players still are the most effective by far, and completing content, queues, etc. is trivial for high IL groups. Maybe high level players cannot solo Heroic Encounters anymore, but those are designed for 10 players, so…

    For me, I get frustrated when I play Well of Dragons, and the cultists there are more powerful than the ones in Dragonbone Vale...because I'm scaled down to half my level when I'm in Well of Dragons.

    There's no competition in Well of Dragons. None of the reasons provided for scaling apply in Well of Dragons or Rothe Valley.

    And the existence of it in those zones creates cognitive dissonance where weaker enemies are harder to kill than their more powerful cousins 20k item level later.

    Drives me nuts, to be honest.
  • chaderickrax#3780 chaderickrax Member Posts: 245 Arc User

    I too am frustrated by the scaling down as it stands. To have elite gear and enchants etc. yet to be penalized for using it is antigaminng. Case in Point, My warlock has all the dragonslayer gear, mastered weapon set, mythic enchants, companions and mounts, 74k IL. Doing randoms and getting out damaged by 10 million to someone who doesn't have half the stuff I have and 10k IL lower. This is simply wrong. Why even bother getting good stuff? I know nothing will change but so be it

    I still think of this as coming to my bi-weekly D&D game with the character that I have worked very hard to get to 20th level over the course of years, only to have my DM tell me that this game is going to be really hard. It's going to be so hard, in fact, that he's changing my level to 10 for this session.

    No. Not going to happen.

    We worked for this. Hard. I understand the purpose, but...especially in a place like the Well of Dragons, where scaling never existed and serves absolutely no purpose...no.

    Scaling is one of the only things that I can imagine getting me to walk away from Neverwinter, in spite of the time and the money (more than I'll admit) that I've dropped on it.

    What a bad example!!

    The main purpose of the DM is to create a good story and engage players, but also give players a challenge according to their power level. No matter if you are level 1, 10 or 20, the DM should allways balance the combats according to your power. This is the core of DnD and other roleplaying games.

    you can agree or not with scaling but your example is just a good example if you want to DEFEND scaling

    Not sure I follow.

    My point was that, if a DM attempted to "scale" my 20th-level character to level 10 because he wanted something to be really, really tough...I would walk. It would be a sign that my DM didn't care at all about the energy, effort and TIME that I invested into that character.

    This is 100% what scaling is doing to us, and I said that scaling is the only thing I could imagine making me want to walk away from Neverwinter.

    In what way is that a defense of scaling?
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User

    I too am frustrated by the scaling down as it stands. To have elite gear and enchants etc. yet to be penalized for using it is antigaminng. Case in Point, My warlock has all the dragonslayer gear, mastered weapon set, mythic enchants, companions and mounts, 74k IL. Doing randoms and getting out damaged by 10 million to someone who doesn't have half the stuff I have and 10k IL lower. This is simply wrong. Why even bother getting good stuff? I know nothing will change but so be it

    I still think of this as coming to my bi-weekly D&D game with the character that I have worked very hard to get to 20th level over the course of years, only to have my DM tell me that this game is going to be really hard. It's going to be so hard, in fact, that he's changing my level to 10 for this session.

    No. Not going to happen.

    We worked for this. Hard. I understand the purpose, but...especially in a place like the Well of Dragons, where scaling never existed and serves absolutely no purpose...no.

    Scaling is one of the only things that I can imagine getting me to walk away from Neverwinter, in spite of the time and the money (more than I'll admit) that I've dropped on it.

    What a bad example!!

    The main purpose of the DM is to create a good story and engage players, but also give players a challenge according to their power level. No matter if you are level 1, 10 or 20, the DM should allways balance the combats according to your power. This is the core of DnD and other roleplaying games.

    you can agree or not with scaling but your example is just a good example if you want to DEFEND scaling

    Not sure I follow.

    My point was that, if a DM attempted to "scale" my 20th-level character to level 10 because he wanted something to be really, really tough...I would walk. It would be a sign that my DM didn't care at all about the energy, effort and TIME that I invested into that character.

    This is 100% what scaling is doing to us, and I said that scaling is the only thing I could imagine making me want to walk away from Neverwinter.

    In what way is that a defense of scaling?
    Yes, then, you should walk away or refuse to do the content that does scaling.
    If you disagree with something, don't settle.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • chaderickrax#3780 chaderickrax Member Posts: 245 Arc User

    I too am frustrated by the scaling down as it stands. To have elite gear and enchants etc. yet to be penalized for using it is antigaminng. Case in Point, My warlock has all the dragonslayer gear, mastered weapon set, mythic enchants, companions and mounts, 74k IL. Doing randoms and getting out damaged by 10 million to someone who doesn't have half the stuff I have and 10k IL lower. This is simply wrong. Why even bother getting good stuff? I know nothing will change but so be it

    I still think of this as coming to my bi-weekly D&D game with the character that I have worked very hard to get to 20th level over the course of years, only to have my DM tell me that this game is going to be really hard. It's going to be so hard, in fact, that he's changing my level to 10 for this session.

    No. Not going to happen.

    We worked for this. Hard. I understand the purpose, but...especially in a place like the Well of Dragons, where scaling never existed and serves absolutely no purpose...no.

    Scaling is one of the only things that I can imagine getting me to walk away from Neverwinter, in spite of the time and the money (more than I'll admit) that I've dropped on it.

    What a bad example!!

    The main purpose of the DM is to create a good story and engage players, but also give players a challenge according to their power level. No matter if you are level 1, 10 or 20, the DM should allways balance the combats according to your power. This is the core of DnD and other roleplaying games.

    you can agree or not with scaling but your example is just a good example if you want to DEFEND scaling

    Not sure I follow.

    My point was that, if a DM attempted to "scale" my 20th-level character to level 10 because he wanted something to be really, really tough...I would walk. It would be a sign that my DM didn't care at all about the energy, effort and TIME that I invested into that character.

    This is 100% what scaling is doing to us, and I said that scaling is the only thing I could imagine making me want to walk away from Neverwinter.

    In what way is that a defense of scaling?
    Yes, then, you should walk away or refuse to do the content that does scaling.
    If you disagree with something, don't settle.
    An excellent reductivist answer. Well done.

    If you take into account that I'm one of maybe twenty people who still care about this game enough to post regularly on these forums, I think you'll have to admit that there are enough things that keep drawing me back here to want to fight for improvements in the things I disagree with.

    I like scaling in competitive content. My first queue experience mirrored the one that the new EP described in a recent interview (right down to the queue itself, Cloak Tower). I ran along behind the group and picked up the occasional piece of treasure that they didn't bother to grab. Then I opened a chest and left. It was...underwhelming.

    But in non-competitive content, like Well of Dragons and Rothe Valley, it's not only misplaced but breaks the narrative--and I know I'm not the only person who plays this game because of the story. I'm not the only one who cheered when I found out who really brought me to Chult, and I'm not the only one who gasped when the Vallenhas dude called in his favor.

    It just drives me nuts that scaling has been put in places where it serves a negative purpose, and no apparent positive one. Dragonbone Vale cultists are not supposed to be easier to kill than the ones in the Well of Dragons, but if you start out a new character and play through Neverwinter in sequence, I assure you that they are. (And that's just one example.)

    Miss you, Plasticbat. It feels like ages since you've shot down something I've said with six words or less.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited December 2022


    Yes, then, you should walk away or refuse to do the content that does scaling.
    If you disagree with something, don't settle.

    Miss you, Plasticbat. It feels like ages since you've shot down something I've said with six words or less.

    I mean what I said. I disagree with RQ. Hence, I still refuse to do it. However, I also know there are more people than me (1 person) like it.

    I have lobbied against RQ since before RQ was introduced. Of course, there have been many other counter arguments. What I know is it won't be changed. The only thing I can do is 2 options: (1) walk away, (2) refuse to do it.

    I just refuse to do something I don't like to do. Well, may be one day I may change my mind against RQ.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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