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fleurdelys2013
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 19 Arc User
I play this game for about 9 years and i always enjoyed professions but what we have now its no sense and discouraging to even approach . With maxed artisans i literally have no way to protect my materials, that are EXPENSIVE to craft, i just puff loose all but thoese are details .
New weapon set for cleric at least its very expensive to craft compared to paladin for instance .Lets say the price of 1 material needed to craft 1 part of the cleric set , its value is the price of 1 piece of the paladin set. 1 material worth same as a piece of set ? How is this FAIR? Whoever chooses materials for cleric recipes, can you please reconsider and make it fair for everyone?
In addition why we dont have something to protect when we want to craft ? I mean we have coalescent motes to protect when we refine , why there is nothing for professions too ?
If this is how you motivate people to craft then you should rethink , not saying that new people who might be interested to try professions , they will lose their interest fast . I know we arent many who craft, but we exist too !
In terms of the value of materials the difference is huge .Please make a comparison .
New weapon set for cleric at least its very expensive to craft compared to paladin for instance .Lets say the price of 1 material needed to craft 1 part of the cleric set , its value is the price of 1 piece of the paladin set. 1 material worth same as a piece of set ? How is this FAIR? Whoever chooses materials for cleric recipes, can you please reconsider and make it fair for everyone?
In addition why we dont have something to protect when we want to craft ? I mean we have coalescent motes to protect when we refine , why there is nothing for professions too ?
If this is how you motivate people to craft then you should rethink , not saying that new people who might be interested to try professions , they will lose their interest fast . I know we arent many who craft, but we exist too !
In terms of the value of materials the difference is huge .Please make a comparison .
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To make the Silvervine Sceptor you need at least 60 Displacer Beast's Whiskers. To make the full Cleric weapon set you need at least 90. I am still to drop a single one in 5 full VoS runs. And then you don't even have a 100% chance to complete the recipe.
I'd like to make 4 independent suggestions here:
- Make the drop rates of the VoS materials consistent. E.g. make the first boss always drop the Whiskers, the 2nd boss always drop the Shattered Snowflake and the 3rd boss always drop the Shard of Dawn's Light. In my experience, people have nothing against farming, but we hate the RNG involved.
- Reduce the material costs of materials that require the Whiskers to be in line with the materials that require Shards and / or Snowflakes.
- Make the Treasure Hunter guild boon and the Double Professions event apply to any material drops that do not come from Explorer's Cases. So having the Treasure Hunter guild boon active would always drop 2 Whiskers / Shards / Snowflakes. This could also apply to the materials dropping from regular enemies in Sharandar, like the Questionable piece of Leather and the Corpse Flower Thorn.
- Introduce Motes to Mastercrafting, to increase the chances of success. E.g. adding a Coalescent Mote would automatically set the chance of success to 100%.
For masterwork you need epic version Gold Ignot. Raw Gold ignot is non masterwork material.
Due latest change in proffesions, certain materials can't be obtained anymore, some where allocated in other areas.
In short older masterwork gets phased out, and for players where given option to exchange old mw recipes for some other stuffs also convert old mw materials to new ones.
As for material requirements for latest craftings. Well it's normal thing to increase requirements, I mean almost all games which I played use same principle, latest recipes have higher material/items as requirments than older recipes.
The purpose of that is, to consume/eliminate spare materials from game economy, and also make players to farm/grind for new ones.
This also is reason why old MW get phased out, if too many old Mw materials would be remained in game, majority of players would stick with old MW weapon sets, cuz old or new sets, they have same effects just slight difference in stat gains.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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For one there are high level items that add to proficiency/focus. And two there are artisan skills which can and do matter.
Some Artisans have the “recycle” skill which can protect materials in case of a failure. “Dab hand” which can produce double the amount of crafted resources/items from one task. “Passion Project” gives a chance to negate the commission cost of a task. “Miracle Worker”, a chance to complete a task instantly or without consuming morale. “Virtuoso”, a chance to profit from the effect of a slotted supplement without consuming it. A combination of those skills can save you commission costs, materials and or grant you multiple task attempts as a result from one/a few completed tasks, that itself is quite valuable.
Adding something like a Coalescent Mote type item to crafting will remove the risk involved with mastercrafting and essentially just add the cost of that item to the price of the crafted item, in other words the buyer will be paying for the crafter's increased chance of crating the item that they are buying.
When it comes to mastercrafting, it’s not for the faint of heart. You aren’t going to “win” in each scenario/crafting attempt because you can’t effectively “cover all the bases” simultaneously, if you could, it would devalue the system itself and involve no risk. Sometimes you pretty much have to sacrifice on one end to try and gain on another. The AD investment alone to get into mastercrafting will discourage a LOT of people, which is fine, it’s not for everyone.
There are players that buy materials, players that farm materials and those that do both.
The more you farm materials yourself the:
- less dependent you are on the trade house/other players.
- less susceptible you are to high material prices.
- lower you can sell items while still gaining a profit.
When you buy the majority of your materials you are backing yourself into a corner and:
- become dependent on the trade house/other players.
- are more susceptible to high material prices.
- the higher you must sell your items to gain a profit.
Whichever path(s) you choose you also pretty much have to take what comes with it. Personally would much rather lose items on a failed crafting attempt that were personally farmed rather than bought. It just hits different losing items after having spent several hours farming them because the only thing "lost" is time invested compared to losing items after having spent hundreds of thousands of AD on them.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
No matter what supplements you will use, recycle or whatever , you still have a high chance to loose your materials. I failed 3 times in a row with "recycle" supplement and recycle special skill on artisan , with maxed artisans and highest supplements .What about these other people who dont have similar as i do ?
When you craft item that materials value its 10 milions astral diamonds that will matter so yes a mote to protect materials , similar to coalescent mote for refining , would be alot usefull .
After all if you reject the idea to spend zen on such item , dont do it , there will be others who will buy trust me. You play this game in your own way .
Even if they (sold) required ZEN for 100% chance to refund materials on failure, they could offer others that gave a 50%, or 70% chance to a few limited others, perhaps from Lockbox even.
Im not saying to change the drop rates of whiskers, bc those are huge help of casual players like me, but a pres mote-like resource saving item would be nice. That would give a steady price for items like cleric weapons, barb off-hand and many fey armor pieces, instead of not being in AH at all, just because crafters just dont want to "gamble" it and lose millions of ad in the proccess.
Yes, you can select your best artisan... then you can try different tools and supplements. You don't want to lose your ingredients... but you do want a +1 result. You can make a judgement... something like 82% success but little chance of +1, or maybe 70% success with 50% +1. Are you feeling lucky?
I need to make some crystalline ornaments. I've made woven whiskers, and that was bad enough. To make the ornaments I would ideally have a better jeweller artisan. How long will I have to wait for her to apply? More RNG... and when that happens I have to make the ornaments. Something like 5M AD worth of ingredients at risk. And that's not even the last step!
If masterwork crafting was combat then people would be complaining about random insta-deaths and permanently losing half your gear and enchantments and it's not fair! That's what it's like... forget lockboxes, this is where the real risk taking is!
The suggestion of such an item is being rejected by this forum user. Even it came with a very high Zen cost (2k+) it would simply reshape the price of mastercrafted items. It's called mastercrafting for a reason, taking away the risk pretty much defeats the purpose.
Of course players would love to be able to buy a Zen item to guarantee mastercrafting success, then turn around and up the price on mastercrafted trade house items even more... No thanks.
Reducing some costs? Maybe. Zen item that guarantees success? No sir.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Having 90 whiskers go poor should be a shrug and oh gee that’s just how cutting edge Mastercrafting is! Because it’s not. It’s a time sink to keep folks busy and it’s showing the gaps now from throwing together an updated system on an older one.
It demotivates the players to invest in a system that is consistent in non rewarding effort.
In the old system, you farmed nodes and worked up the ladder making components so if you lost some, it wasn’t as detrimental as having to do an end game dungeon over and over.
And with said dungeon being made obsolete with new content
It’s even harder
"While this feature is not in the desired final state"
"Separately, we are continuing to improve/revise some of the recipes and materials, but that work will not be complete until after our next module is (internally) finished."
Sharandar Mastercrafting was released prematurely and those that jumped into it early chose to deal with it in it's premature state (high recipe costs, tool proficiency, etc.). Haven't seen an update to the reworking of Sharandar Mastercrafting.
After things are reworked and settled maybe the discussion can be had though it makes little sense to do so while things are still up in the air.
Even those that do not use the item more than likely aren't going to keep the prices around where they are currently, they will simply undercut the increased "Motified" crafted items price. A Coalescent Mote type item won't "fix" the current system itself, it will just reduce frustration, and the cost then passed to the buyer. The part of passing that cost to the buyer is what is especially and personally not agreed with.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
If, for example, I need 2 each of items X, Y, and Z to craft a doohickey and failed, then maybe I only lose one of item X, both item Ys, or both Xs and a Z or whatever. I might still lose everything, or I might lose one (or all) of the rarest and most expensive item, but it would be better than losing it all every time guaranteed.
Recyclers or supplements that gave recycling would still save everything, so they would still hold value, and failure could still be quite punishing, but it might help cushion the blow.
Now, it was a really long time ago, but didn't the original crafting system have tiered results?... and didn't some of the tiers give you back some of the ingredients if it failed to make the item? In those days dragon eggs were the expensive ingredient (and I would sometimes still get them from Tiamat until the recent rework, and trade them in with my retainer).
I didnt say to make a mote to guarantee succes rate , i said to make a a mote to guarantee the protection of your materials . Its a difference . I m pretty clear with what i say .
And why we as masterworkers should assume more nonsense risks but not rest of people who have all other ways to protect their stuff when they reinforce , upgrade etc.
How is this rewarding for us ? Its enough expensive to touch this side of game anyway and we didnt complain about , but how this is encouraging people to even go on ?
Wards have pretty much been part of the enchantment upgrade system since the beginning/for quite some time unlike Mastercrafting.
Personally attempted shard upgrades unprotected for the most part (1% chance), taking quite the risk (back when two of the same enchantment were needed). Regardless of the amount of the player base that mastercrafts, personally wouldn't agree with an item that guarantees success though are less against an item that just protects materials. In either case, in regard to mastercrafting, personally still against players passing off their guaranteed/protect material costs onto the buyer with either type of item. You didn't, though someone else did: The same still stands though, players buying the item (to protect materials) will arguably just add the cost of that item to the sale price, event hose that don't will mirror the upped prices. The same goes for those situations. The thing those situations don't have a "no cost" feature like "recycle" to where on a failed attempt things are protected, a preservation ward/Coalescent Mote must be used to do so.
The enchantment system changes of Mod 22 expanded the amount of risk/cost involved with upgrading enchantments being that preservation wards no longer protect all catalysts, only one, although there are 2-3 catalysts per upgrade attempt.
The risk was further increased due to when you utilize multiple preservation wards, they are ALL automatically consumed on a failed upgrade attempt even though the description clearly states that one catalyst would be randomly chosen to be destroyed, not all. Players have and do complain about the cost to even start mastercrafting.
The mastercrafting system overall could very well use some changes (such as a reduction in material amounts for at least some recipes) though as previously mentioned, personally don't agree with introducing an item(s) into mastercrafting that can/will have their cost passed off onto the buyer.
Even still, with artisans there are essentially those that:
- Have high proficiency/focus
- Have particular skills that could/would decrease/negate the risk involved on a failed task.
- Have not so high proficiency/focus
- A combination of the above.
and arguably a number of players go for high proficiency/focus rather than skills to decrease/negate risk.
Again, Sharandar mastercrafting is "not in the desired final state", so continuing with it prior to then will essentially cost players more (time, AD, etc.).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Having looked at the Sharandar masterwork recipes for a while, there are 3 that stand out to me as being the most broken that, if fixed, should provide noticeable improvements. I would suggest the following -
1) Fey Fibers - Increase the yield from 1 to 4 to match its equivalent, chultan silk thread. This should help alleviate the dryad hair issues.
2) Woven Whiskers - Reduce the whiskers needed from 15 to 2 and if necessary add 8(?) dryad hair or (preferably?) regular silk thread to "bulk up" the components required. This significantly reduces the numbers of whiskers needed as standalone woven whiskers or in ornaments.
3) Crystalline Ornaments - Reduce the number of Shards of Dawn's Light from 12 to 2. Reduces the number of shards needed.
By my math, that would take the weapon sets from the current range of high 30s to low 100s for drops needed down to mid 20s to mid 40s and it would also reduce many of the armor recipes' requirements as well. It's not perfect, but the disparity between different classes' weapon sets and the total numbers of drops needed are both much reduced. It also has the virtue of requiring a bare minimum of changes, limited to a single field or two in each of 3 recipes, so developer time/effort should be minimal.
I would also look at increasing the drop rate on Pieces of Questionable Leather even further.
+it should be the choice of the player if he /she will want to use a mote to protect materials , after all price shouldnt be much affected , the same as it wasnt affected in upgrading enchants , cause when you pay for enchantment you dont really pay for how much it would really cost to upgrade it . You dont pay per total of the coalescent motes you used and all necesary to upgrade , isnt it ?
Even if you want to accept or not ,there are problems with professions , but if isnt a dps problem(where everyone will cry rivers here on forum ) it doesnt mean this problem doesnt exist , or it shouldnt be fixed .
The suggested material protection item is not a branch of the professions system. Such an item would inject a different form of functionality into the professions system that did not exist prior. That is quite false.
ALL catalysts for upgrading enchantments can be obtained in-game without the ZEN market therefore enchantment prices can considerably vary, though they often don't. Would the protection item be available through free means, probably not which will only help solidify an increase in mastercrafted item prices even if not used.
Coalescent Motes can be obtained without AD and the "free" ones can/are used to upgrade enchantments though the price for upgraded enchantments with a "free" Mote STILL reflects the market cost of the motes themselves... In other words enchantments upgraded with a free mote are not simply sold for considerably less just because it didn't cost the player AD so why would an item that does cost a player ZEN not be reflected in the price of an item it is used to craft... The cost of Gold/RP is negligible and while GoP's cost a bit more, the inflated trade house prices for enchantments STILL pretty much covers the cost of ALL catalysts even if they were obtained by a free method(s)...
If you look at the prices of enchantments (on PS4 at least) from rarity epic and higher (outside of companion enchantments), the price INCLUDES the VIP discount (500k) for Coalescent Motes and or the trade house cost of Coalescent Motes (800k+/-) + a R2 enchantment choice pack + the inflated AD amount so yes the price of items IS affected/reflected by the cost/"value" of ZEN items...
Can pretty much guarantee players will NOT simply be buying a ZEN market item to aid in Mastercrafting and not adding the AD cost/"value" to the price of salable items. Can also pretty much guarantee players that wouldn't buy such an item would STILL simply undercut the new increased prices instead of keeping them around where they currently are... As previously mentioned and agreed, there are problems with professions, not limited to material costs for tasks though to add:
- Artisan applications. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to have already have "x" number of applications > dismiss a artisan > have that SAME dismissed artisan mysteriously appear as one of the applicants even though the applications were already in prior to them being dismissed... Even worse when an artisan shows up MULTIPLE times within the same set of applications after being dismissed.
- Consistently completing tasks at a lower proficiency than at a higher proficiency.
- Extra materials being used by tasks when set to "as many as possible" even though the tasks are not started.
- Etc.
So yeah, there are problems with professions though still don't agree with circumventing the risk of Mastercrafting with a ZEN item and simply having the cost of that item passed on to the buyer.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen