Better rewards in some content needed

gankdalf · June 2022

Some content with specific BiS gear like Master Crown Of Keldedonn (master) and Vault Of Stars (HC+Normal) needs better rewards. Especially CoK.

These dungeons and trials all have gear that are best is slot but once you have the items, there is not enough rewards to entice players to keep running the content. This is problematic for new and returning players because they still need the gear but very few players run the content. This basically creates a class society within the game where some players have BiS gear while others only dreaming about it.

So we need better rewards or nerf the content so its not as hard and time consuming so current rewards are "worth" the time. Now there might be other solutions to the problem and I would welcome anything that would solve it. Rewards is just a suggestion.

arazith07 · June 2022

So let's say this happens, what happens when those items are gotten by the player? Wouldn't that put the game in the same place? Also, there are players that are just plain sick and tired of VOS due to the abyssal drop rates and large loot tables. Adding even more items is just going to lower drop rates.

Players new the content should be able to form groups among themselves and learn and farm the content, reliance on older experienced players is not required.

gankdalf · June 2022

arazith07 said:
So let's say this happens, what happens when those items are gotten by the player? Wouldn't that put the game in the same place? Also, there are players that are just plain sick and tired of VOS due to the abyssal drop rates and large loot tables. Adding even more items is just going to lower drop rates.

Players new the content should be able to form groups among themselves and learn and farm the content, reliance on older experienced players is not required.

Not if the rewards are items that are constantly needed. Things you cant really have enough of. Im talking about an extra reward that wouldnt affect the drop rates of the rings. Bonus AD or something. Im talking about a reward that even players who are sick of vos would actually want. Something making it worth the effort of players already done with vos to return.

arazith07 · June 2022

gankdalf#8991 said:

arazith07 said:
So let's say this happens, what happens when those items are gotten by the player? Wouldn't that put the game in the same place? Also, there are players that are just plain sick and tired of VOS due to the abyssal drop rates and large loot tables. Adding even more items is just going to lower drop rates.

Players new the content should be able to form groups among themselves and learn and farm the content, reliance on older experienced players is not required.
Not if the rewards are items that are constantly needed. Things you cant really have enough of. Im talking about an extra reward that wouldnt affect the drop rates of the rings. Bonus AD or something. Im talking about a reward that even players who are sick of vos would actually want. Something making it worth the effort of players already done with vos to return.

So you mean premium rewards that we already have?

Also doesn't address the point that if there are all these newer players who need to run the content, why can't they form groups amongst themselves?

gankdalf · June 2022

arazith07 said:

gankdalf#8991 said:

arazith07 said:
So let's say this happens, what happens when those items are gotten by the player? Wouldn't that put the game in the same place? Also, there are players that are just plain sick and tired of VOS due to the abyssal drop rates and large loot tables. Adding even more items is just going to lower drop rates.

Players new the content should be able to form groups among themselves and learn and farm the content, reliance on older experienced players is not required.
Not if the rewards are items that are constantly needed. Things you cant really have enough of. Im talking about an extra reward that wouldnt affect the drop rates of the rings. Bonus AD or something. Im talking about a reward that even players who are sick of vos would actually want. Something making it worth the effort of players already done with vos to return.
So you mean premium rewards that we already have?

Also doesn't address the point that if there are all these newer players who need to run the content, why can't they form groups amongst themselves?

Current rewards is obviously not working since players who already have the items are not going back to it. Its too time consuming for the reward you get. Its not worth it.

Well all the new players aren't new at the same time. New players joins everyday over a long period of time. There simply isn't enough new players online at the same time wanting to do that specific content. Especially hard to find tank and healers. And I also see lots of players that has given up on the items from vos. Probably because they don't wanna spend all their time looking for group.

greywynd · June 2022

I guess "fun" got tossed out the window at some point.

arazith07 · June 2022

gankdalf#8991 said:

arazith07 said:

gankdalf#8991 said:

arazith07 said:
So let's say this happens, what happens when those items are gotten by the player? Wouldn't that put the game in the same place? Also, there are players that are just plain sick and tired of VOS due to the abyssal drop rates and large loot tables. Adding even more items is just going to lower drop rates.

Players new the content should be able to form groups among themselves and learn and farm the content, reliance on older experienced players is not required.
Not if the rewards are items that are constantly needed. Things you cant really have enough of. Im talking about an extra reward that wouldnt affect the drop rates of the rings. Bonus AD or something. Im talking about a reward that even players who are sick of vos would actually want. Something making it worth the effort of players already done with vos to return.
So you mean premium rewards that we already have?

Also doesn't address the point that if there are all these newer players who need to run the content, why can't they form groups amongst themselves?
Current rewards is obviously not working since players who already have the items are not going back to it. Its too time consuming for the reward you get. Its not worth it.

Well all the new players aren't new at the same time. New players joins everyday over a long period of time. There simply isn't enough new players online at the same time wanting to do that specific content. Especially hard to find tank and healers. And I also see lots of players that has given up on the items from vos. Probably because they don't wanna spend all their time looking for group.

Okay, why fix something that is only relevant to so few players then? That would be literally less than 1% of the total population. The dungeon already gives BiS items, and so will always be relevant for players who don't have the item. I'm fairly certain that less than 50% of the players have BOA and other desired items. Those who are upset over the drop rate are waiting for the drop rates to be raised, something our EP has said is in the works. There are also those who are focusing on Ancient Dragon farming as it's the new content.

The problem isn't that players with the items aren't coming back.

tchefi · June 2022

gankdalf#8991 said:
There simply isn't enough new players online at the same time wanting to do that specific content. Especially hard to find tank and healers. And I also see lots of players that has given up on the items from vos. Probably because they don't wanna spend all their time looking for group.

I don't know man, honestly I have no issue at all finding 4 players whenever i want to successfully run an all bosses VoS HC, even if I'm playing a sub equiped reroll.
But i'm quite a social player, it probably helps a lot.
Building and maintaining relationships can lead to success in a MMOPRG. Who would have guessed ?

strathkin · July 2022

gankdalf#8991 said:
So we need better rewards or nerf the content so its not as hard and time consuming so current rewards are "worth" the time. Now there might be other solutions to the problem and I would welcome anything that would solve it. Rewards is just a suggestion.

I'd agree with that statement, the enemy in most Advanced Dungeons (often) can hit a bit too hard. It's not all the time... ...yet some like it that way, they enjoy the greater challenge, yet also likely near 75k+ too.

I know they claimed to have improved the rewards a bit, yet I can't say I've seen anything extra in last few weeks. Mostly I'm earning single Genie's Gift sometimes. I did receive one Greater Shard of Empowerment though in four weeks now, yet given you need 250+ just for one Collar upgrade, not to mention the 15 Glyph's. Perhaps a few Companion & Mount Upgrade tokens too which is nice; yet they also dropped before!

Generally though if they say they improved them, I have to believe them, it's just likely a small drop chance rate improvement.

strathkin · July 2022

I think the 'biggest' thing I've noticed since the change from Level 80 to Level 20, is really now we see far less Gold, Silver, and Copper.

I mean you can make it producing mostly low level items in crafting, but the amount you earn from Adventuring has been reduced a lot! Previously at level 80 fighting Giants in Storm Kings Thunder (Cold Run) or Sea of Moving Ice you'd formerly see Gold sometimes drop, that's not from Gear either just enemy.

Now that we level 20 at best the amount we earn is probably 25-50x less (Gold & Silver) dropping now. It's why most Enemy today now drop 5-20 Copper most often, or if you really lucky maybe 50-75 Copper at best. So won't see 1 Gold & 20-30 Silver drop (directly) as best you'll see is maybe 1 Silver, maybe 20-40 Copper at best.

So offering a few Silver For Heroic's, might balance the great decline in Gold/Silver/Copper reductions from enemy.

archmage · July 2022

Can you record when you form a full vos hc group with even a good geared char without relying on your years long friend list and your social circle made by your main char?
I would like to stay next to you, I will take a day off from work just to meet you at your hour of convenience.
Fact is that hc Vos time sink was invented to keep endgame players busy. That meant all mid to endgame players population.
A new player is timegated too by Vos hc, but with less player base and 3 modules of content on top of the poor progression system.
It only takes a reasonable mind to see the problem.
Either make the ring not mandatory, either increase drop rates.
Whoever says that 1/3 dps increase is not mandatory to gameplay, might as well say we can live pretty good without 1 arm and 1 leg, having 2 of each is not mandatory either.
.

arazith07 · July 2022

archmage#5149 said:

Can you record when you form a full vos hc group with even a good geared char without relying on your years long friend list and your social circle made by your main char?
I would like to stay next to you, I will take a day off from work just to meet you at your hour of convenience.
Fact is that hc Vos time sink was invented to keep endgame players busy. That meant all mid to endgame players population.
A new player is timegated too by Vos hc, but with less player base and 3 modules of content on top of the poor progression system.
It only takes a reasonable mind to see the problem.
Either make the ring not mandatory, either increase drop rates.
Whoever says that 1/3 dps increase is not mandatory to gameplay, might as well say we can live pretty good without 1 arm and 1 leg, having 2 of each is not mandatory either.

I mean, when it first came out no one knew what to do either. People grouped up with strangers and have completed it. There are plenty of newer players out there, or even older players who haven't stepped foot into anything outside of a random queue. People just want to be carried and not put in much effort to talk with strangers.

archmage · July 2022

Let me try with bullet points see if you manage to ignore the facts again.
1,Vos hc was meant for endgame players time sink in a dead module. 1/2 of the player population did only that.
Obviously is not the same situation.
How many are -plenty of players-to you? If 2 hour daily playtime means 1 -2 hours of calling on chat, your -plenty- is not enough.
2.At that time there was no other content. Now we have 3 more modules of content, 2 campaings, 2 master trials and 3 normal trials.
If time for doing content is kept the same, then to reach endgame should take in your view about 9 years.
3. When Vos hc came out -the target playerbase was already mid to endgame. Newer players must progress first and then get burred in hc Vos.
Devs should try to get a character from 20k IL up to Vos hc level to see why the retention is low.
Newer players do not need timesink, they have more then enough to do to.
Fairplay means - same conditions, same rules.
Neither the conditions, nor the rules are the same.

arazith07 · July 2022

archmage#5149 said:
Let me try with bullet points see if you manage to ignore the facts again.
1,Vos hc was meant for endgame players time sink in a dead module. 1/2 of the player population did only that.
Obviously is not the same situation.
How many are -plenty of players-to you? If 2 hour daily playtime means 1 -2 hours of calling on chat, your -plenty- is not enough.
2.At that time there was no other content. Now we have 3 more modules of content, 2 campaings, 2 master trials and 3 normal trials.
If time for doing content is kept the same, then to reach endgame should take in your view about 9 years.
3. When Vos hc came out -the target playerbase was already mid to endgame. Newer players must progress first and then get burred in hc Vos.
Devs should try to get a character from 20k IL up to Vos hc level to see why the retention is low.
Newer players do not need timesink, they have more then enough to do to.
Fairplay means - same conditions, same rules.
Neither the conditions, nor the rules are the same.

1. How do you know the numbers yourself, do you have access to every single major guild or alliance in the game? What chats are you using? Yes some players don't want to touch VOS again due to the amount of grinding it took to get the band of air, however new players are always arriving, or are just getting the item level required.
2. Vos is still in the same place, still has BIS equipment, once players realize that the Mythic rings aren't producing as much damage as other players, they will come back to grind VOS for Band of Air.
3. Again, players are constantly cycling through the game, newer players are going to be more numerous than players who have everything. Drop rates are going to be lowered in the future for VoS, it's going to be less of a timesink for players new to VoS when the devs finally make that change.

fritz · July 2022

One indication for me is the lack of action in the public lfg channels. There's pretty much no market for new Tiamat, or CoK. It's a bit better for (HC)VoS and Demogorgon, but these are obviously a little bit dated already. Don't think you have a good shot at forming a group outside those private channels. And that's very much an issue of rewards.

grogthemagnif · August 2022

One example would be the new Dragon Hunts:

The new Chest drops added ADDED [at least 3 of the below] should be:

level 0 Healing potions (plural) in groups of 5

Epic Healthstones

5 packs of Life Scrolls

Level 0 potions 1-2 non-Healing

This will make it closer to "free to Play"

masteryoda · August 2022

grogthemagnif said:
One example would be the new Dragon Hunts:

The new Chest drops added ADDED [at least 3 of the below] should be:

level 0 Healing potions (plural) in groups of 5

Epic Healthstones

5 packs of Life Scrolls

Level 0 potions 1-2 non-Healing

This will make it closer to "free to Play"

And maybe a chance at some of them dragon scrolls and potions again to help balance the cost of resources spent, the current rewards in the chest at the end of the dragon hunt actually feels somewhat like a slap in the face, but I won't hold my breath

silente07 · August 2022

Instances have dwindled across the game. The best gear is perceived as coming from Dragon hunts, so all new players are doing that.
The end chest rewards were lacking before the hunts, certainly not worth it now.
Will it change, NO. I say this based on the history of the game.
The RNG is bad and if your account happens to have bad RNG it’s even worse. The algorithm for it is not stellar.

Better rewards in some content needed

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