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Concerning issues with the Threat/Aggro system

Here's another post about the ridiculous threat system Ok so as a Paladin main we literally have a mechanic that increases threat, it gives no percentage, no proc condition just say increases threat generation, that is not something that can be turned off.

aside from that certain encounters and at-wills state, increased threat generation, does not state amounts.

And than you have a class feature which increases or decreases threat this has a percentage and is the only point as a Paladin interms of abilities where percentage is mentioned.

Next for threat generation is the ring of the condemned which also doesn't state any amount just says generate threat around you when you have been running for 1 second no mention of stacking or anything either.

Now we have the jewel of the north set which states 15% threat generation, but doesn't state a proc condition.

Soo here is the crux of the matter, 15% of what? When? Where does neverwinter provide this information for tanks to properly control threat? How are we meant to realistically test these things when there is other variables to consider? How much threat does any and all heals generate or any and all attacks for the DPS and healers?

the information that is available is so vague and mostly not even provided by the Devs but players trying to work it out themselves, and even than it can be difficult to find, not only good info but up to date info about a vital core mechanic.

So again finally it's hard to judge weather anything and everything that states increased threat generation works and if it states percentage it's difficult to understand what that even means when we can't see these actual numbers anywhere.

The only thing I can say I know for certain works is the ring and hard taunt abilities that instantly put you at the top of the threat list, even than I couldn't tell you the effectiveness of the ring I can just say it appears to do as it says.

Moreover if you start the game as a tank there is nothing that teaches you about threat at all again this is the core mechanic for tanks and we do not get any help working it out other than from other players, everyone gets taught about combat advantage but no one is taught about threat, I have seen so many tanks who do not have any understanding of the threat system and not just new players but yes new players will struggle the most performing their role as a tank.

I can't emphasize enough the ridiculousness of haveing a core mechanic for the past 7 years that is as vague as the threat system, literally all we have is a tiny little box with a traffic light system to judge threat with which doesn't apply to every monster around just the ones you have managed to pull.

Ways to rectify this issue could be add a threat stat to the stat page, make it more clear how much threat is generated by things that say increase threat generation, give us some solid numbers to work with, make the combat log a group combat log so tanks can see how much threat everyone is generating, and add a monster counter next to the treat bar so the tank can have at least a rough Idea of how many enemies are focused on him and how many enemies are focused on someone else.

I'll add that without some actual solid numbers as tanks we can't even say what is the best way to focus and balance treat generation or for us to balance offense stats and damage to prevent DPS and healers grabbing the aggro.

I expect as always the Devs will remain silent about this glaring issue. But seriously it's ridiculous that this hasn't already been sorted out across all these years.

It would be nice to hear some sort of response guys something to say you have seen our issue, or some answer to these problems, I know your busy with all the new mods and character reworks but this is a major system concerning an entire class role, might want to fix this before reworking character, but I don't know what do you think @cryptic39#8917 @nitocris83
Post edited by masteryoda#6623 on

Comments

  • nic1985nic1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited March 13
    Nicely written but you can tag the Devs/CM to your post so they may take notice.

    Not sure if you have done so but searching for "Tank threat" in this forum returns many posts of interest and good reads, esp the one where Devs responded. Could help answer some of your concerns but alas there are more unanswered from the Devs that players care the most.
  • masteryoda#6623 masteryoda Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    > @nic1985 said:
    > Nicely written but you can tag the Devs/CM to your post so they may take notice.
    >
    > Not sure if you have done so but searching for "Tank threat" in this forum returns many posts of interest and good reads, esp the one where Devs responded. Could help answer some of your concerns but alas there are more unanswered from the Devs that players care the most.

    Hi yeah I have no idea how to do that any advice is appreciated thank you
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User
    to get devs to get notice of post add @cryptic39#8917 @nitocris83 in your post. Yes this is a good post they should be aware of
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited May 9
    I agree this is a great summury of threat in the game..

    I think what an updated NWO HUD needs for Sentinel,Palladin and Fighter tank mode is digital VU meter style display addition, replacing the current red /green pill above our charname

    (probably just 2;
    one for a combined team/group/party threat level and one for the player character.)

    If doable probably the best bet would make it possible for all classes to assign a stat possibly could make it 3 more, to a total of 5 meters that show ,say for a tank, as well as 2 threat DEF,awareness,deflect ,dps classes could also do with % assignable meters to stuff they want to keep track of on screen ,especially stuff like critical chance (that currently has no readout in the c-key info)
    something that players can see changing in real time when actually playing..It would be nice to see some cool update to all that info and how we see it on the screen.. a readout for threat and critical chance or any of the other important stats that we could assign to even just 2 little ,standard VU ,green to(amber?) red ..like is on most audio devices, stereo,mixers etc.

    forgive me if you think this would be useless.. just an idea I thought I would share after reading the thread.
    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    I have a feeling the real issue is that the developers that know how threat works in the game all left Cryptic Studios.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,502 Arc User
    As far as the 15% threat generation, I believe this would be equivalent to a 15% damage boost, if 1 damage=1 threat. Now where exactly that modifier is in the equation, who knows, but at least that is a rough estimate. Damage is the base of threat generation, that much is clear. It would be nice to know what the base threat modifier is for normal tank attacks (1), attacks that add more threat (2), and finally with hard taunts, what percent higher than top of the threat list is (3). Then ofc for more items to say how much threat is added like the artifact set says.
  • masteryoda#6623 masteryoda Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > I have a feeling the real issue is that the developers that know how threat works in the game all left Cryptic Studios.

    From the lack of response or acknowledgement from @cryptic39#8917 or @nitocris83 I'm guessing you're probably right 😞
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    > @masteryoda#6623 said:
    > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > I have a feeling the real issue is that the developers that know how threat works in the game all left Cryptic Studios.
    >
    > From the lack of response or acknowledgement from @cryptic39#8917 or @nitocris83 I'm guessing you're probably right 😞
    >

    I think tagging @rgutscheradev is our only hope for getting threat calculation insights
    Elite Whaleboy
  • rgutscheradevrgutscheradev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 159 Cryptic Developer
    I agree that threat is not in a great place now, especially in terms of clarity, and double-especially for newer players.

    A revamp is on my list of things I want to do. Unfortunately that list is getting pretty long. But I do agree the threat system, and above all its readability, needs some love.

    Sorry, not a great answer, I know. But I wanted to at least say we were aware.
  • stormbreaker#5563 stormbreaker Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Hello. This is a great topic. My paladin tank is 71k ilvl, but when a dps is higher than me, I have issues trying to hold aggro. I really hate that. Tanks should be able to hold it no matter their item level or attack power. I'm using the Jewel of the North set, but that doesn't work or help either. Paladins should have a class mechanic that increases threat for 200% when attacking. Last Q&A stream devs said they were going to work on each class per new mod, so hopefully we paladins are heard and they take this into account when working on our class. Thanks for the post.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited June 18

    Hello. This is a great topic. My paladin tank is 71k ilvl, but when a dps is higher than me, I have issues trying to hold aggro. I really hate that. Tanks should be able to hold it no matter their item level or attack power. I'm using the Jewel of the North set, but that doesn't work or help either. Paladins should have a class mechanic that increases threat for 200% when attacking. Last Q&A stream devs said they were going to work on each class per new mod, so hopefully we paladins are heard and they take this into account when working on our class. Thanks for the post.

    What? NO.

    Maybe you mean tanks from equal item level should have mechanics to hold agro better, but no way tanks get 100% agro no matter what the other players do lol
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • masteryoda#6623 masteryoda Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    > @rgutscheradev said:
    > I agree that threat is not in a great place now, especially in terms of clarity, and double-especially for newer players.
    >
    > A revamp is on my list of things I want to do. Unfortunately that list is getting pretty long. But I do agree the threat system, and above all its readability, needs some love.
    >
    > Sorry, not a great answer, I know. But I wanted to at least say we were aware.

    Thank you for the responce . I do appreciate the acknowledgement of the issue and hope you get the time to really focus this core mechanic. I can't imagine the length of that list but I do hope the threat system isn't near the bottom of that list 😉 thanks again for taking the time to respond.
  • vokuldovahkiin1#4724 vokuldovahkiin1 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    When this game was in Beta 9 years and change ago... This was a hot topic in other online gaming pages in regards to Neverwinter. Threat Generation issues involving Devout Clerics getting all the aggro just by healing the group or individual. It was explained away by one of the Devs as an issue they were aware of and would work on a fix before game release. 9 years later and how many millions of dollars later, and still nothing. As a Devout Cleric I run one offensive at will (Scattering Light) everything else is healing or Healing Buffs. It is extremely frustrating knowing as soon as I proc Healing Word or any other Healing power other than Soothe I become top of the threat list. It doesn't matter what taunt a tank was using, or if a high item level DPS is present doing damage they are ignored. Now the issue if DPS doesn't do their job or if the Tank doesn't proc a taunt after the healing ability I'm either running for my life or DOA. If I die once in a dungeon to to either of the above conditions being met I'm annoyed. If it happens a second time subtle hint I'm pissed. I will release immediately to the fire, change my build to a solo run build. Devout Clerics are not your only means of health recovery. I use my pots for myself because I strive to use Divinity for everyone else (Divinity isn't Infinite). How can other players help their Cleric Or Paladin Healer. Get out of the RED AREAS before they trigger. Be aware that once that healing ability is cast aggro is going the healers. Be prepared to react in their direction. When a player goes down and I go in as a healer there are three things about to happen:1. I'm getting attacked. 2. I'm picking you up. 3. I am smashing a major heal directly on top of you. A little help once in a while would be a pleasant surprise. Tanks have a hard job and I respect Tank Players immensely. They have a difficult job often times unappreciated in mob spawns and Boss fights. To be honest everyone should have a Tank alt or a Devout Cleric alt. The experience might open their eyes and remove the horse blinders of the "Well I'm DPS" mindset. I know it opened mine
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