That's a lazy cop-out for an ingame system that's no longer providing the utility it was designed for. A blunt knife also still works but you would want to exchange it asap to not make you life harder than necessary anyway. But I guess your advice is to keep slicing.
Plus ZEN is only one side of the problem (if at all). The real reason the ZAX is broken is because the Astral Diamond economy got out of hand due to Cryptic design decisions. Maybe it was inevitable, who knows, but you can't just sit here saying "not broken" and pretend like you can't or shouldn't do something about it. This should be #1 priority for some time now and it's honestly very telling Cryptic doesn't even try to acknowledge this mess and comment on their short-term plans on how to fix it.
At the current state of the ZAX it's better to buy something from the market and sell it for ADs. You'll get a better exchange rate than 750:1. If all players knew that the exchange would completely die. Stop spreading such a bs narrative.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
That's a lazy cop-out for an ingame system that's no longer providing the utility it was designed for. A blunt knife also still works but you would want to exchange it asap to not make you life harder than necessary anyway. But I guess your advice is to keep slicing.
Plus ZEN is only one side of the problem (if at all). The real reason the ZAX is broken is because the Astral Diamond economy got out of hand due to Cryptic design decisions. Maybe it was inevitable, who knows, but you can't just sit here saying "not broken" and pretend like you can't or shouldn't do something about it. This should be #1 priority for some time now and it's honestly very telling Cryptic doesn't even try to acknowledge this mess and comment on their short-term plans on how to fix it.
At the current state of the ZAX it's better to buy something from the market and sell it for ADs. You'll get a better exchange rate than 750:1. If all players knew that the exchange would completely die. Stop spreading such a bs narrative.
For them, it is not broken because it serves their agenda. If you are impatient and can't get Zen from Zax in your time line, you may decide to spend money. They want you to make such decision.
It does not matter if people spend money to buy Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH or buy AD from Zax, they got the money.
There is no incentive for them to change anything although in mod 22, they did do something to increase the demand of AD. That is AFTER they dramatically intentionally increased supply of AD significantly in previous mods.
Impatient AD buyer uses Zax. Impatient Zen buyer uses money.
If you are hoping they will change that in any material way (instead of may be some little immaterial PR token), sorry, it will hardly happen. Players need to figure out how to deal with it themselves instead of wishing something will be done. In addition, if they actually do anything, the chance is it will not be the way you want. It will be worse. It happened many times. The scary story in NW is Dev says they want to change/improve something.
The real game is not the game itself but a cat and mouse game between Cryptic and players. The game is Cryptic tries their best to get money. Players try their best to avoid that. This game has been played since the beginning of the NW.
With the new owner coming in, there is nothing more important for the management to show increasing revenue.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Well I get that it might force people into spending ZEN, but that's a different type of conversation. No matter how you phrase it, the ZAX as system is no longer intact and nobody with a sane mind can logically challenge that. Again, it only works because new players probably don't know that directly exchanging ZEN to ADs means losing 50%+ ADs in the process because you can make that much more buying market items and auction them.
If you're saying we shouldn't hope for a fix, I know. I've already stated the only way to solve this issue is by detaching ADs from the exchange and let players earn ZEN from dailies. Meaning a complete reset of the ZEN economy. ADs would still serve as AH and Bazaar currency. Also if you're so concerned about ZEN coming in, make VIP and certain premium packs a cash only option.
And look, as always, it's not going to limit smart veterans at all. I think we all by now have set up 10-20 accounts that constantly have 25k ZEN on the exchange. Even with a turnaround time of 9 months or whatever it is that's still roughly 50k ZEN per month, which is more than enough to operate with.
@nitocris83 You need to much more than just changing the blog. The following is the in game tool tip of the slot that you can put a ward:
"Optionally place a ward here to protect this catalyst. If the upgrade fails and this is chosen for loss, you'll lose the ward instead. If the upgrade succeeds you will not lose the ward but you will lose all catalysts."
For most people, there is only one way to interpret that and it is not losing all the ward when it fails.
It clearly says "If the upgrade fails" AND "this is chosen for loss", you'll lose the ward instead. So, I guess you will need to change the text in the tooltip because most of your players especially new players have no knowledge of your blog.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
It clearly says "If the upgrade fails" AND "this is chosen for loss", you'll lose the ward instead. So, I guess you will need to change the text in the tooltip because most of your players especially new players have no knowledge of your blog.
Oh no - now they're going to rush to fix the tool tip rather than the real problem.
Widespread player sentiment is they feel poorly treated. Veteran players feel like their years of hardwork was for nothing and they're back at square one, with a mammoth amount of grinding and cost, fearing that once they have everything maxed again, you'll casually wipe it out with yet more changes. We've had over 2 years of some very significant changes. Each change has drastically affected players. Each change has had a very significant cost to the player. Rarely, if ever, allievated by a "fair" exchange, from the players viewpoint. They feel cheated and short-changed. The playerbase have lost trust in you. Communication from Cryptic to the playerbase is, generally, very poor. Dev interaction is next door to zero, with one occasionally submitting to an hour of twitch stream. Communicate with us. The current changes were clearly not explained well enough. Not enough bugs are fixed in a timely manner. Some bugs from 6 or 7 mods ago still exist.
That's a lazy cop-out for an ingame system that's no longer providing the utility it was designed for.
It provides the utility it was designed for. The majority that have zen are choosing not to use it. It is that simple. You cannot force people to sell things they do not with to part with. Asking the devs to change the zax ratio will simply inflate the prices to the new max and the game will be exactly as it is now; backlog on the exchange and people crying over the prices in the AH.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
There are two aspects to the way how the preservation wards work now: one unpopular - that it effectively increased consumption of the wards 2-3x one confrontational - the downright misleading tool-tip
The first issue is unpopular, but in the end truly a question of how the devs want to set the demand for pres wards.
The second issue is inexcusable. People reported the disparity between the tool-tip and the actual refinement behaviour as soon as it hit the preview. Whether the Cryptic would have asked a lawyer or a four-year-old child, they would get a straight answer that the tool-tip is total BS. They could have changed the tool-tip then, they could have changed the tool-tip later... but instead it went live, intentionally misleading people. A clarification somewhere in the forum is another BS move again - how many people will dig it up BEFORE they get fooled by the tool-tip? The tool-tip needed a major correction straight away - that would eliminate the unavoidable feeling that you are just trying to fool the players.
This is really bad. From the tooltip AND the description of the changes, this isn't how it's meant to be working, and the longer it goes unfixed the more people are throwing away unnecessary preservation wards.
I haven't upgraded my enchantments yet and will continue not to. Honestly, I probably won't refine any artifacts either going forward unless this changes. I'm usually pretty passive on debuffs, but this is both a very clear mistake and a really bad continuing mechanic.
You advertised this change as a net positive - a way to only protect desired resources and therefore use LESS preservation wards. Saying the intended process now can ONLY require MORE preservation wards is absolutely dishonest. There is no way this was ever meant to be an improvement if that were the case.
From the update notes: Each upgrade will have up to 3 components, each of which can be protected by a preservation ward. If the upgrade fails, 1 of the components is chosen at random to be destroyed, unless it is protected by a preservation ward which will get destroyed instead.
I don't understand how this could have been read any other way. From the above clarification, this would have stated "Unless it is protected by a preservation ward, which will all get destroyed on any failure no matter what."
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
This is really bad. From the tooltip AND the description of the changes, this isn't how it's meant to be working, and the longer it goes unfixed the more people are throwing away unnecessary preservation wards.
I haven't upgraded my enchantments yet and will continue not to. Honestly, I probably won't refine any artifacts either going forward unless this changes. I'm usually pretty passive on debuffs, but this is both a very clear mistake and a really bad continuing mechanic.
You advertised this change as a net positive - a way to only protect desired resources and therefore use LESS preservation wards. Saying the intended process now can ONLY require MORE preservation wards is absolutely dishonest. There is no way this was ever meant to be an improvement if that were the case.
From the update notes: Each upgrade will have up to 3 components, each of which can be protected by a preservation ward. If the upgrade fails, 1 of the components is chosen at random to be destroyed, unless it is protected by a preservation ward which will get destroyed instead.
I don't understand how this could have been read any other way.
They already said this is WAI. So, they have partially "fixed" it by changing Dev's blog. To "fix" the game (if they actually spend time to do so), they will just change the text in game tooltip.
"Each upgrade will have up to 3 components, each of which can be protected by a preservation ward. If the upgrade fails, 1 of the components is chosen at random to be destroyed, unless it is protected by a preservation ward - in this case, all preservation wards will get destroyed instead."
I just repeat their message. So, don't shoot me.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I guess I can understand if "working as intended" doesn't line up with "working as originally intended" but I guess my point about it being a hugely bad mechanic still stands. It makes preservation wards (something that can only really be gotten in large quantities via zen) pretty worthless in a lot of situations when compared to coalescents.
I guess if it stays, it stays. But it's unfortunate that this change puts even more emphasis on coalescent wards than originally advertised. This doesn't seem like a mechanic worth keeping around. You already tipped the balance enough towards coalescent motes - this wasn't necessary to do it further.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
I guess I can understand if "working as intended" doesn't line up with "working as originally intended" but I guess my point about it being a hugely bad mechanic still stands. It makes preservation wards (something that can only really be gotten in large quantities via zen) pretty worthless in a lot of situations when compared to coalescents.
I guess if it stays, it stays. But it's unfortunate that this change puts even more emphasis on coalescent wards than originally advertised. This doesn't seem like a mechanic worth keeping around. You already tipped the balance enough towards coalescent motes - this wasn't necessary to do it further.
c-motes for enchantment. 1%. p-wards for Artifact/Artifact Equipment. Can be 90%.
For those who have many characters, after they make their enchantments to mythic and account wide (with many c-mote or buy it from AH), in theory, they will only need to upgrade their new Artifact/Artifact Equipment for each characters using p-wards. So, p-wards still has their place with smaller role.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
That's a lazy cop-out for an ingame system that's no longer providing the utility it was designed for.
It provides the utility it was designed for. The majority that have zen are choosing not to use it. It is that simple. You cannot force people to sell things they do not with to part with. Asking the devs to change the zax ratio will simply inflate the prices to the new max and the game will be exactly as it is now; backlog on the exchange and people crying over the prices in the AH.
I'm sorry but you're simply wrong. The issue is not people unwilling to buy or exchange ZEN, it's that exchanging ZEN to ADs makes ZERO sense because you're actively losing ADs in the process. The fact that the ZAX moves at all is fascinating and solely due to the fact that new-ish players get scammed by the system because of their lack of knowledge. There are even good reasons to completely deactivate the exchange until the issues have been addressed.
The prices on the AH by the way have already adopted a new exchange rate. It's closer to 1:2000 btw. Coalescent Motes on PC go for 1.8M which is 1:1800 or 1:2250 if you consider the usual 20% discount. It's the same for other items. So aligning the ZAX would simply be adjusting to the economy that already changed. That being said, I agree this is not the way to go because there are simply too many ADs on accounts. You have to detach both systems and let people farm ZEN directly.
You have to detach both systems and let people farm ZEN directly.
Game over. Turn off the lights, close the door, and don't bother locking it because no one will be able to play after all the developers and other employees no longer receive a paycheck.
OK--a bit dramatic, but most likely truthful. If you can farm ZEN, very few people will ever buy it.
I understand frustration at not being able to immediately convert AD-->ZEN, but the game still needs to make money. As it is currently stated in your suggestion, the above idea will kill the game. Perhaps you could amend your statement with a comment regarding how "Cryptic" would continue to pay for their developers. Which is actually a topic for a different thread, since this one is the "pres ward bug".
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,153Arc User
Which is why the Arc Rewards went away. No free Zen.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
That's a lazy cop-out for an ingame system that's no longer providing the utility it was designed for.
It provides the utility it was designed for. The majority that have zen are choosing not to use it. It is that simple. You cannot force people to sell things they do not with to part with. Asking the devs to change the zax ratio will simply inflate the prices to the new max and the game will be exactly as it is now; backlog on the exchange and people crying over the prices in the AH.
I'm sorry but you're simply wrong. The issue is not people unwilling to buy or exchange ZEN, it's that exchanging ZEN to ADs makes ZERO sense because you're actively losing ADs in the process. The fact that the ZAX moves at all is fascinating and solely due to the fact that new-ish players get scammed by the system because of their lack of knowledge. There are even good reasons to completely deactivate the exchange until the issues have been addressed.
The prices on the AH by the way have already adopted a new exchange rate. It's closer to 1:2000 btw. Coalescent Motes on PC go for 1.8M which is 1:1800 or 1:2250 if you consider the usual 20% discount. It's the same for other items. So aligning the ZAX would simply be adjusting to the economy that already changed. That being said, I agree this is not the way to go because there are simply too many ADs on accounts. You have to detach both systems and let people farm ZEN directly.
All these change is actively and passively force you to buy Zen so that they can have a revenue stream. If you can't get your stuff, you either farm it or pay for it. New players are their bread and butters. That is where the money come from. They can't get much money from veterans who know how to farm without even using Zen and/or money.
A lot of stuff may not make sense but it gives you an easy way. Sure, one can use Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH so that they can get more AD. But, it is work, risk and time. People wants it NOW. You mentioned c-mote. Well, c-mote can be farmed but again, it is a lot of work, risk, time for most people. Hence, they want to do the easy way. Buy it from Zen store, buy it from AH, etc. They want it NOW. Zen can still be obtained from Zax but people wants it NOW. That is where money gives you an easier way to obtain it.
"Wants it NOW" is the center of profit. "Wants it NOW" gives Cryptic money. "Wants it NOW" gives AD seller Zen. "Wants it NOW" gives AH seller ADs.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @plasticbat said: > All these change is actively and passively force you to buy Zen so that they can have a revenue stream. If you can't get your stuff, you either farm it or pay for it. New players are their bread and butters. That is where the money come from. They can't get much money from veterans who know how to farm without even using Zen and/or money. > > A lot of stuff may not make sense but it gives you an easy way. Sure, one can use Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH so that they can get more AD. But, it is work, risk and time. People wants it NOW. You mentioned c-mote. Well, c-mote can be farmed but again, it is a lot of work, risk, time for most people. Hence, they want to do the easy way. Buy it from Zen store, buy it from AH, etc. They want it NOW. Zen can still be obtained from Zax but people wants it NOW. That is where money gives you an easier way to obtain it. > > "Wants it NOW" is the center of profit. > "Wants it NOW" gives Cryptic money. > "Wants it NOW" gives AD seller Zen. > "Wants it NOW" gives AH seller ADs.
You're not "forced" to buy Zen. It's an option. You can play the game without any cash investment. There won't be a game to play after a couple of years. But hey, move onto another "free" game, rinse and repeat.
Game over. Turn off the lights, close the door, and don't bother locking it because no one will be able to play after all the developers and other employees no longer receive a paycheck.
OK--a bit dramatic, but most likely truthful. If you can farm ZEN, very few people will ever buy it.
I understand frustration at not being able to immediately convert AD-->ZEN, but the game still needs to make money. As it is currently stated in your suggestion, the above idea will kill the game. Perhaps you could amend your statement with a comment regarding how "Cryptic" would continue to pay for their developers. Which is actually a topic for a different thread, since this one is the "pres ward bug".
I don't know. Seems like the game survived Mod 1-2 where we had unlimited ADs due to severe exploits and could exchange them in unlimited quantities on a ZAX with an exchange rate of 1:300. So I'm calling bull. ZEN farming would need to be capped at ~75 per day. That's enough to keep VIP up for an active player. For more you would still need to throw your cash at the game.
All these change is actively and passively force you to buy Zen so that they can have a revenue stream. If you can't get your stuff, you either farm it or pay for it. New players are their bread and butters. That is where the money come from. They can't get much money from veterans who know how to farm without even using Zen and/or money.
A lot of stuff may not make sense but it gives you an easy way. Sure, one can use Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH so that they can get more AD. But, it is work, risk and time. People wants it NOW. You mentioned c-mote. Well, c-mote can be farmed but again, it is a lot of work, risk, time for most people. Hence, they want to do the easy way. Buy it from Zen store, buy it from AH, etc. They want it NOW. Zen can still be obtained from Zax but people wants it NOW. That is where money gives you an easier way to obtain it.
"Wants it NOW" is the center of profit. "Wants it NOW" gives Cryptic money. "Wants it NOW" gives AD seller Zen. "Wants it NOW" gives AH seller ADs.
Oh it's highly convenient I get that. They're selling the solution to a problem they themselves created. I don't think it was intentional, but they're obviously very careful tweaking the system now without being sure that their revenue stream remains intact. I'm thinking though you can set up a system without actively kidding the players.
The "diy" narrative, although it has gradually gotten better, is largely a pipe dream and the new Enchantment system has made it worse. The game is advocating the idea that everything is obtainable when in reality it's not the case, at least not without sacrificing your soul to the god of grind. Sure you don't *need* bis for most content, but the nature of a player is to strive for the end-goal. And this being well out of reach is highly frustrating. That's why a working ZAX is such an integral part of the game.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
All these change is actively and passively force you to buy Zen so that they can have a revenue stream. If you can't get your stuff, you either farm it or pay for it. New players are their bread and butters. That is where the money come from. They can't get much money from veterans who know how to farm without even using Zen and/or money.
A lot of stuff may not make sense but it gives you an easy way. Sure, one can use Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH so that they can get more AD. But, it is work, risk and time. People wants it NOW. You mentioned c-mote. Well, c-mote can be farmed but again, it is a lot of work, risk, time for most people. Hence, they want to do the easy way. Buy it from Zen store, buy it from AH, etc. They want it NOW. Zen can still be obtained from Zax but people wants it NOW. That is where money gives you an easier way to obtain it.
"Wants it NOW" is the center of profit. "Wants it NOW" gives Cryptic money. "Wants it NOW" gives AD seller Zen. "Wants it NOW" gives AH seller ADs.
Oh it's highly convenient I get that. They're selling the solution to a problem they themselves created. I don't think it was intentional, but they're obviously very careful tweaking the system now without being sure that their revenue stream remains intact. I'm thinking though you can set up a system without actively kidding the players.
The "diy" narrative, although it has gradually gotten better, is largely a pipe dream and the new Enchantment system has made it worse. The game is advocating the idea that everything is obtainable when in reality it's not the case, at least not without sacrificing your soul to the god of grind. Sure you don't *need* bis for most content, but the nature of a player is to strive for the end-goal. And this being well out of reach is highly frustrating. That's why a working ZAX is such an integral part of the game.
Well, I guess that depends on the person. I am a pretty lazy person. I don't like to do stuff that is inefficient and not cost effective. I have Zen and I don't know what else worth to buy besides VIP. I have AD and there is more or less nothing I want to buy from AH.
The new enchantment system makes it better for me (as I said "for me"). I play 7 characters. I distribute resource to all of them equally. Hence, I always do stuff cost effectively and buy stuff that has high price/performance.
The new account wide enchantments make all my characters BiS in enchantment side possible. It was not possible before (ok, it was possible but not cost effective and will empty my reserve).
For c-ward/c-mote and p-ward, I have not purchased any of them from Zen store and AH for years. I have more than enough to upgrade all the enchantments to mythic. I initially thought I need to spend AD to get GoP from AD store. Then, I also find out I can just get them from Sybella store. In other words, I don't need to spend Zen/AD to upgrade all the enchantment for all my characters to mythic. That was not possible before mod 22.
Again, I am talking about me and my situation only.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I had all Mythic Account Unlocks on day one as well. Doesn't mean I'm unable to understand that this is a 1% perspective on the game and that the system sucks for the majority. If you talk about Wards and Motes, I get plenty and enough by invoking, whatever. A new player can't invoke with a 50-toon army yet. They have two or three slots to start with. And guess what? More come through the ZEN market exclusively. Meaning they a) have to farm AD to exchange first, and b) wait for 9 months before even being able to start the invoke grind. Probably making it a full year before they can start upgrading anything unless they are highly active in dungeon farming and get lucky drops.
You say you can grind C-Wards. That's true if you're already well set up. For everyone else the broken ZAX is an additional gate and it's not solely an issue of people getting impatient. If nine month of waiting around just to be able to "free to play" a system is ok for you, fine. But I'll continue to say that the broken ZAX takes away most of the "f2p" label this game had. It has always been a major selling point and since you simply can't obtain some necessary items in a reasonable amount of time it becomes pay to progress in some areas.
And you know why this discussion is completely nonsense anyway? Because Cryptic already admits each and every day that I'm right by not acknowledging the issue. They know damn well that their free-to-play mechanic is horribly broken and can't just put out a statement without getting in trouble and questioned asked. Much less since this HAMSTER has been lingering for so long. Their silence is a confirmation and the day you hear them talking about the ZAX will be the day they'll introduce a complete rework of the system. @nitocris83 sweeps the forum every Monday. They are aware, and they actively choose to ignore it.
As they also appear to ignore the mirage set being unable to upgrade and insigs not stacking. Those 2 issues still being ignored, with no word. Not even acknowledging them as issues.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
I had all Mythic Account Unlocks on day one as well. Doesn't mean I'm unable to understand that this is a 1% perspective on the game and that the system sucks for the majority. If you talk about Wards and Motes, I get plenty and enough by invoking, whatever. A new player can't invoke with a 50-toon army yet. They have two or three slots to start with. And guess what? More come through the ZEN market exclusively. Meaning they a) have to farm AD to exchange first, and b) wait for 9 months before even being able to start the invoke grind. Probably making it a full year before they can start upgrading anything unless they are highly active in dungeon farming and get lucky drops.
You say you can grind C-Wards. That's true if you're already well set up. For everyone else the broken ZAX is an additional gate and it's not solely an issue of people getting impatient. If nine month of waiting around just to be able to "free to play" a system is ok for you, fine. But I'll continue to say that the broken ZAX takes away most of the "f2p" label this game had. It has always been a major selling point and since you simply can't obtain some necessary items in a reasonable amount of time it becomes pay to progress in some areas.
And you know why this discussion is completely nonsense anyway? Because Cryptic already admits each and every day that I'm right by not acknowledging the issue. They know damn well that their free-to-play mechanic is horribly broken and can't just put out a statement without getting in trouble and questioned asked. Much less since this HAMSTER has been lingering for so long. Their silence is a confirmation and the day you hear them talking about the ZAX will be the day they'll introduce a complete rework of the system. @nitocris83 sweeps the forum every Monday. They are aware, and they actively choose to ignore it.
I already said it is only my personal situation. I did not say it is not suck for others. When I started in mod 3 which was also branded for "f2p" at that time, "the major selling point". At that time, after 3 months, knowing the situation, my plan was for 1.5 years. It took about 1 year to get Zen. Hence, whatever Zax situation right now is more or less "better" than when I started. Many considered Mod 3 was the "glory days". If you consider what Zax is right now is "broken", it was "broken" right from the beginning. Zax itself was not changed from the beginning except the exchange rate.
What I am trying to say is: the game has "f2p" label right from the beginning and Zax was worse than now. No, I am not saying you should be happy about that. However, this is the way "f2p" label they have been maintained for all these years. They will keep on ignoring it like the nth forum managers before nitocris83. If they say (or even imply) they are going to do something about it, it is the time you should start to panic.
Again, I am talking about me only and not everybody else. I am not saying others should behave like me at all. I knew what I deal with and deal with it accordingly.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I guess I can understand if "working as intended" doesn't line up with "working as originally intended" but I guess my point about it being a hugely bad mechanic still stands. It makes preservation wards (something that can only really be gotten in large quantities via zen) pretty worthless in a lot of situations when compared to coalescents.
I guess if it stays, it stays. But it's unfortunate that this change puts even more emphasis on coalescent wards than originally advertised. This doesn't seem like a mechanic worth keeping around. You already tipped the balance enough towards coalescent motes - this wasn't necessary to do it further.
c-motes for enchantment. 1%. p-wards for Artifact/Artifact Equipment. Can be 90%.
For those who have many characters, after they make their enchantments to mythic and account wide (with many c-mote or buy it from AH), in theory, they will only need to upgrade their new Artifact/Artifact Equipment for each characters using p-wards. So, p-wards still has their place with smaller role.
I get what you are saying, I know the mote vs ward difference. What I'm saying is the changes already made coalescent motes the much heavier option for enchantments - something that used to be upgradeable via wards.
Now this change also makes it less feasible for doing some of the other smaller percentages with wards too. 1 coalescent mote = 100 wards cost-wise. but efficiency wise, if it's going to take more than 30 attempts, you should now use a coalescent mote if you don't want to lose anything. It used to be up to 100 attempts. That's a HUGE difference on top of essentially eliminating wards as an option for enchantments, especially because dungeons really only drop 1%/2% motes. Those don't compare price-wise - I'm pretty sure both take more than 30 guaranteed attempts. (If I'm wrong please do correct me).
If they do, it never makes sense to use one of them when you can just use a coalescent mote instead. Buying the pres wards to make up for it will likely cost more.
Which is why the Arc Rewards went away. No free Zen.
Have they.. pretty sure I got some extra zen about a week ago when purchasing some.. its like most things, on a rotation.. just like most sales and incentives around the globe.
Comments
Plus ZEN is only one side of the problem (if at all). The real reason the ZAX is broken is because the Astral Diamond economy got out of hand due to Cryptic design decisions. Maybe it was inevitable, who knows, but you can't just sit here saying "not broken" and pretend like you can't or shouldn't do something about it. This should be #1 priority for some time now and it's honestly very telling Cryptic doesn't even try to acknowledge this mess and comment on their short-term plans on how to fix it.
At the current state of the ZAX it's better to buy something from the market and sell it for ADs. You'll get a better exchange rate than 750:1. If all players knew that the exchange would completely die. Stop spreading such a bs narrative.
It does not matter if people spend money to buy Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH or buy AD from Zax, they got the money.
There is no incentive for them to change anything although in mod 22, they did do something to increase the demand of AD. That is AFTER they dramatically intentionally increased supply of AD significantly in previous mods.
Impatient AD buyer uses Zax. Impatient Zen buyer uses money.
If you are hoping they will change that in any material way (instead of may be some little immaterial PR token), sorry, it will hardly happen. Players need to figure out how to deal with it themselves instead of wishing something will be done. In addition, if they actually do anything, the chance is it will not be the way you want. It will be worse. It happened many times. The scary story in NW is Dev says they want to change/improve something.
The real game is not the game itself but a cat and mouse game between Cryptic and players. The game is Cryptic tries their best to get money. Players try their best to avoid that. This game has been played since the beginning of the NW.
With the new owner coming in, there is nothing more important for the management to show increasing revenue.
If you're saying we shouldn't hope for a fix, I know. I've already stated the only way to solve this issue is by detaching ADs from the exchange and let players earn ZEN from dailies. Meaning a complete reset of the ZEN economy. ADs would still serve as AH and Bazaar currency. Also if you're so concerned about ZEN coming in, make VIP and certain premium packs a cash only option.
And look, as always, it's not going to limit smart veterans at all. I think we all by now have set up 10-20 accounts that constantly have 25k ZEN on the exchange. Even with a turnaround time of 9 months or whatever it is that's still roughly 50k ZEN per month, which is more than enough to operate with.
"Optionally place a ward here to protect this catalyst. If the upgrade fails and this is chosen for loss, you'll lose the ward instead. If the upgrade succeeds you will not lose the ward but you will lose all catalysts."
For most people, there is only one way to interpret that and it is not losing all the ward when it fails.
It clearly says "If the upgrade fails" AND "this is chosen for loss", you'll lose the ward instead.
So, I guess you will need to change the text in the tooltip because most of your players especially new players have no knowledge of your blog.
> Clarification messaging has been posted. As stated, we are monitoring player sentiment and look forward to feedback presented in a civil manner.
>
> https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1264423
Widespread player sentiment is they feel poorly treated. Veteran players feel like their years of hardwork was for nothing and they're back at square one, with a mammoth amount of grinding and cost, fearing that once they have everything maxed again, you'll casually wipe it out with yet more changes. We've had over 2 years of some very significant changes. Each change has drastically affected players. Each change has had a very significant cost to the player. Rarely, if ever, allievated by a "fair" exchange, from the players viewpoint. They feel cheated and short-changed. The playerbase have lost trust in you.
Communication from Cryptic to the playerbase is, generally, very poor. Dev interaction is next door to zero, with one occasionally submitting to an hour of twitch stream. Communicate with us. The current changes were clearly not explained well enough.
Not enough bugs are fixed in a timely manner. Some bugs from 6 or 7 mods ago still exist.
> Clarification messaging has been posted. As stated, we are monitoring player sentiment and look forward to feedback presented in a civil manner.
>
> https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1264423
This is ludicrous, please explain how this balances anything at all.
1 coal = 1000 zen
10 pres wards = 100 zen
On all enchantments It takes 150 attempts to garuntee an upgrade with 3 regents to protect or burn.
To upgrade a green enchantment to blue it will cost 450 pres wards than again from blue to purple and so on
Interms of your zen prices let's see what that means
10 pres wards = 100 zen
450 pres wards = 4500zen
For 1 garunteed upgrade if your protecting all 3 regents
Or 1 coal = 1000 zen
For 2 garunteed upgrades 9000 zen if preservation wards or 2000 zen if coal wards,
3 upgrades 13500 zen if preservation wards, 3000 zen if coal wards
4 upgrades 18000zen if preservation wards, 4000 zen if coal wards.
Do I need to continue?
There is nothing balanced about burning all 3 wards if an upgrade attempt fails this is ludicrous....
one unpopular - that it effectively increased consumption of the wards 2-3x
one confrontational - the downright misleading tool-tip
The first issue is unpopular, but in the end truly a question of how the devs want to set the demand for pres wards.
The second issue is inexcusable. People reported the disparity between the tool-tip and the actual refinement behaviour as soon as it hit the preview. Whether the Cryptic would have asked a lawyer or a four-year-old child, they would get a straight answer that the tool-tip is total BS. They could have changed the tool-tip then, they could have changed the tool-tip later... but instead it went live, intentionally misleading people. A clarification somewhere in the forum is another BS move again - how many people will dig it up BEFORE they get fooled by the tool-tip?
The tool-tip needed a major correction straight away - that would eliminate the unavoidable feeling that you are just trying to fool the players.
I haven't upgraded my enchantments yet and will continue not to. Honestly, I probably won't refine any artifacts either going forward unless this changes. I'm usually pretty passive on debuffs, but this is both a very clear mistake and a really bad continuing mechanic.
You advertised this change as a net positive - a way to only protect desired resources and therefore use LESS preservation wards. Saying the intended process now can ONLY require MORE preservation wards is absolutely dishonest. There is no way this was ever meant to be an improvement if that were the case.
From the update notes:
Each upgrade will have up to 3 components, each of which can be protected by a preservation ward. If the upgrade fails, 1 of the components is chosen at random to be destroyed, unless it is protected by a preservation ward which will get destroyed instead.
I don't understand how this could have been read any other way. From the above clarification, this would have stated "Unless it is protected by a preservation ward, which will all get destroyed on any failure no matter what."
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11508143-developer-blog:-refinement-updates
"Each upgrade will have up to 3 components, each of which can be protected by a preservation ward. If the upgrade fails, 1 of the components is chosen at random to be destroyed, unless it is protected by a preservation ward - in this case, all preservation wards will get destroyed instead."
I just repeat their message. So, don't shoot me.
I guess if it stays, it stays. But it's unfortunate that this change puts even more emphasis on coalescent wards than originally advertised. This doesn't seem like a mechanic worth keeping around. You already tipped the balance enough towards coalescent motes - this wasn't necessary to do it further.
p-wards for Artifact/Artifact Equipment. Can be 90%.
For those who have many characters, after they make their enchantments to mythic and account wide (with many c-mote or buy it from AH), in theory, they will only need to upgrade their new Artifact/Artifact Equipment for each characters using p-wards. So, p-wards still has their place with smaller role.
The prices on the AH by the way have already adopted a new exchange rate. It's closer to 1:2000 btw. Coalescent Motes on PC go for 1.8M which is 1:1800 or 1:2250 if you consider the usual 20% discount. It's the same for other items. So aligning the ZAX would simply be adjusting to the economy that already changed. That being said, I agree this is not the way to go because there are simply too many ADs on accounts. You have to detach both systems and let people farm ZEN directly.
Game over.
Turn off the lights, close the door, and don't bother locking it because no one will be able to play after all the developers and other employees no longer receive a paycheck.
OK--a bit dramatic, but most likely truthful. If you can farm ZEN, very few people will ever buy it.
I understand frustration at not being able to immediately convert AD-->ZEN, but the game still needs to make money. As it is currently stated in your suggestion, the above idea will kill the game. Perhaps you could amend your statement with a comment regarding how "Cryptic" would continue to pay for their developers. Which is actually a topic for a different thread, since this one is the "pres ward bug".
A lot of stuff may not make sense but it gives you an easy way. Sure, one can use Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH so that they can get more AD. But, it is work, risk and time. People wants it NOW. You mentioned c-mote. Well, c-mote can be farmed but again, it is a lot of work, risk, time for most people. Hence, they want to do the easy way. Buy it from Zen store, buy it from AH, etc. They want it NOW. Zen can still be obtained from Zax but people wants it NOW. That is where money gives you an easier way to obtain it.
"Wants it NOW" is the center of profit.
"Wants it NOW" gives Cryptic money.
"Wants it NOW" gives AD seller Zen.
"Wants it NOW" gives AH seller ADs.
> All these change is actively and passively force you to buy Zen so that they can have a revenue stream. If you can't get your stuff, you either farm it or pay for it. New players are their bread and butters. That is where the money come from. They can't get much money from veterans who know how to farm without even using Zen and/or money.
>
> A lot of stuff may not make sense but it gives you an easy way. Sure, one can use Zen to buy stuff from Zen store to sell in AH so that they can get more AD. But, it is work, risk and time. People wants it NOW. You mentioned c-mote. Well, c-mote can be farmed but again, it is a lot of work, risk, time for most people. Hence, they want to do the easy way. Buy it from Zen store, buy it from AH, etc. They want it NOW. Zen can still be obtained from Zax but people wants it NOW. That is where money gives you an easier way to obtain it.
>
> "Wants it NOW" is the center of profit.
> "Wants it NOW" gives Cryptic money.
> "Wants it NOW" gives AD seller Zen.
> "Wants it NOW" gives AH seller ADs.
You're not "forced" to buy Zen. It's an option. You can play the game without any cash investment. There won't be a game to play after a couple of years. But hey, move onto another "free" game, rinse and repeat.
The "diy" narrative, although it has gradually gotten better, is largely a pipe dream and the new Enchantment system has made it worse. The game is advocating the idea that everything is obtainable when in reality it's not the case, at least not without sacrificing your soul to the god of grind. Sure you don't *need* bis for most content, but the nature of a player is to strive for the end-goal. And this being well out of reach is highly frustrating. That's why a working ZAX is such an integral part of the game.
The new enchantment system makes it better for me (as I said "for me"). I play 7 characters. I distribute resource to all of them equally. Hence, I always do stuff cost effectively and buy stuff that has high price/performance.
The new account wide enchantments make all my characters BiS in enchantment side possible. It was not possible before (ok, it was possible but not cost effective and will empty my reserve).
For c-ward/c-mote and p-ward, I have not purchased any of them from Zen store and AH for years. I have more than enough to upgrade all the enchantments to mythic. I initially thought I need to spend AD to get GoP from AD store. Then, I also find out I can just get them from Sybella store. In other words, I don't need to spend Zen/AD to upgrade all the enchantment for all my characters to mythic. That was not possible before mod 22.
Again, I am talking about me and my situation only.
You say you can grind C-Wards. That's true if you're already well set up. For everyone else the broken ZAX is an additional gate and it's not solely an issue of people getting impatient. If nine month of waiting around just to be able to "free to play" a system is ok for you, fine. But I'll continue to say that the broken ZAX takes away most of the "f2p" label this game had. It has always been a major selling point and since you simply can't obtain some necessary items in a reasonable amount of time it becomes pay to progress in some areas.
And you know why this discussion is completely nonsense anyway? Because Cryptic already admits each and every day that I'm right by not acknowledging the issue. They know damn well that their free-to-play mechanic is horribly broken and can't just put out a statement without getting in trouble and questioned asked. Much less since this HAMSTER has been lingering for so long. Their silence is a confirmation and the day you hear them talking about the ZAX will be the day they'll introduce a complete rework of the system. @nitocris83 sweeps the forum every Monday. They are aware, and they actively choose to ignore it.
Those 2 issues still being ignored, with no word. Not even acknowledging them as issues.
What I am trying to say is: the game has "f2p" label right from the beginning and Zax was worse than now. No, I am not saying you should be happy about that. However, this is the way "f2p" label they have been maintained for all these years. They will keep on ignoring it like the nth forum managers before nitocris83. If they say (or even imply) they are going to do something about it, it is the time you should start to panic.
Again, I am talking about me only and not everybody else. I am not saying others should behave like me at all. I knew what I deal with and deal with it accordingly.
Now this change also makes it less feasible for doing some of the other smaller percentages with wards too. 1 coalescent mote = 100 wards cost-wise. but efficiency wise, if it's going to take more than 30 attempts, you should now use a coalescent mote if you don't want to lose anything. It used to be up to 100 attempts. That's a HUGE difference on top of essentially eliminating wards as an option for enchantments, especially because dungeons really only drop 1%/2% motes. Those don't compare price-wise - I'm pretty sure both take more than 30 guaranteed attempts. (If I'm wrong please do correct me).
If they do, it never makes sense to use one of them when you can just use a coalescent mote instead. Buying the pres wards to make up for it will likely cost more.