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FINAL UPDATE - [PC] Upcoming OS and DirectX Support Changes

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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022

    micky1p00 said:

    Any modern CPU with integrated GPU will run the game better than what you have there, so why you are buying 3060 and a laptop?

    so u r manageing hes wallet ?
    1. Hers

    2. "So, are you managing her wallet?" Are you trying to save enough money for a new PC by writing less letters?

    3. Are you managing the forums?

    4. I can advise people to not throw their money away as much as I want, don't like it, move on. You are free to do with your money whatever you want, while I'm free to write what I want, within the forum rules.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    kohanas said:

    My computer is 12 years old. I've been using windows 7 since it came out. I hate the look of both windows 8 and 10.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Though with the recent change to Neverwinter, I'm less sad about quitting the game. I've had some good times in game, but I've honestly started moving on to other games in preparation.
    Will I get windows 10? Probably...eventually.
    But I'm not going to upgrade to play an old game past it's prime. And as far as the number of playerbase you'll lose? I'd say at least 25-40%. Good luck.

    so LOL B.S when you can customize just about everything about windows 10 to "look" and "feel" like 7
    tons of free shareware does that .so if the only thing holding you back all these years was "the look" you had tons of tools at your disposal to adjust that all along omg LOL

    so you are not going to upgrade to play an old game past its prime huh ?
    then how about upgrading to play a newer game that is in its prime??
    omg circle argument
  • mrimsogoodmrimsogood Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    kohanas said:

    My computer is 12 years old. I've been using windows 7 since it came out. I hate the look of both windows 8 and 10.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Though with the recent change to Neverwinter, I'm less sad about quitting the game. I've had some good times in game, but I've honestly started moving on to other games in preparation.
    Will I get windows 10? Probably...eventually.
    But I'm not going to upgrade to play an old game past it's prime. And as far as the number of playerbase you'll lose? I'd say at least 25-40%. Good luck.

    so LOL B.S when you can customize just about everything about windows 10 to "look" and "feel" like 7
    tons of free shareware does that .so if the only thing holding you back all these years was "the look" you had tons of tools at your disposal to adjust that all along omg LOL

    so you are not going to upgrade to play an old game past its prime huh ?
    then how about upgrading to play a newer game that is in its prime??
    omg circle argument
    I'm guessing after 12 years that they can't afford a new computer
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    I had a friend tell me by email that the game didn't get updated and only the launcher got updated. So technically Windows 7 users can still play the game and the developers are purposely blocking us Windows 7 users from playing. Until the game is actually updated, allow the Windows 7 users! It will take years to actually rewrite the old code for the full game! All the new content will be written in the new code for Directx 11, which is most likely so. So when is the new module? A few months? Also what graphics update? Just the floor and the trees, which I experienced graphical errors after the Dragonbone Vale update. Not much of an update to the graphics as a whole for Windows 8-10 Directx 11 users displaying properly! I'm just stating my mind, however I can't change anything.

    *sigh-Face it*

    I will make the statement that it's not like my characters are gone forever and also your characters aren't going anywhere. Personally I have priorities of my own expenses and my real job is put on halt. Until my real job opens again, I will try to get a temporary job. Right now I'm trying to survive making money on the side as a consultant making 35% commission on each sale and doing that with my sibling. So eventually I will play the game. Seriously try to get a job and about 2-4 weeks buy a new computer! It is what is it is. I can live without playing the game for a few months or even weeks and so can you.

    Heck I bet my characters from Perfect World International, are still there, which I haven't played in years! It's not going anywhere!




    Post edited by mwk on
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    mwk said:

    I had a friend tell me by email that the game didn't get updated and only the launcher got updated. So technically Windows 7 users can still play the game and the developers are purposely blocking us Windows 7 users from playing. Until the game is actually updated, allow the Windows 7 users! It will take years to actually rewrite the old code for the full game! All the new content will be written in the new code for Directx 11, which is most likely so. So when is the new module? A few months? Also what graphics update? Just the floor and the trees, which I experienced graphical errors after the Dragonbone Vale update. Not much of an update to the graphics as a whole for Windows 8-10 Directx 11 users displaying properly! I'm just stating my mind, however I can't change anything.

    *sigh-Face it*

    I will make the statement that it's not like my characters are gone forever and also your characters aren't going anywhere. Personally I have priorities of my own expenses and my real job is put on halt. Until my real job opens again, I will try to get a temporary job. Right now I'm trying to survive making money on the side as a consultant making 35% commission on each sale and doing that with my sibling. So eventually I will play the game. Seriously try to get a job and about 2-4 weeks buy a new computer! It is what is it is. I can live without playing the game for a few months or even weeks and so can you.

    Heck I bet my characters from Perfect World International, are still there, which I haven't played in years! It's not going anywhere!

    Every user (or ex-user) that is blocked by a notification (your system is obsolete, etc) is a user that wouldn't call support when it will inadvertently crush.

    In some cases, it makes sense to just not support and if the users manage to run it, good for them. In others, when the users less technically inclined (like this one) it makes sense to prevent unneeded support tickets.

    I believe you still misunderstand how those requirements work, or what for they are. They are not to rewrite the game. They are to add features and stop supporting obsolete code paths, which takes money and time. It's not only make the trees prettier, it's also to be able to add trees at half the Dev time.
    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    The floors and trees were already added. I'm just asking what exactly was done for an improvement? Like really that's it? I already knew it was coming. It just seems rather ridiculous of a graphics display update that doesn't make any sense to actually update! This game will take years to rewrite everything as a full Directx 11 game coding because it's that old of a game. Like seriously just the floors and trees? What exactly is the difference on the appearance? It's just different Directx coding, but looks the same practically! It's the developers decision to waste their time updating with Directx 11. Go right ahead developers.

    It is what it is. Also stop being so callous! I already know I need a new computer! It's just some people have other priorities of their expense. I can go without playing the game for a few months or so, until I can afford something long worthwhile. I just don't see how a Directx and OS change will benefit the game, when technically many MMORPGs are still running on Windows 7 support and Directx 9. Just a small performance improvement and that's it!

    When the game dropped Directx 9 support and ran Directx 10, there were errors.
    I think the developers don't correct their own errors in c++ programming or whatever code and that's the problem! There will still be errors and crashing in the game even with Directx 11 support!

    Also the game started with Directx 9 and when you mix old code with new code, there will be errors! So good luck developers on reworking the game to prevent the game from crashing.




    Post edited by mwk on
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    In my computer, it does not show your floor and tree. Mine is a lot better than that or I never saw yours in mine.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited February 2022

    In my computer, it does not show your floor and tree. Mine is a lot better than that or I never saw yours in mine.

    It's because I'm a windows 7 and Directx 10 graphics card. Of course yours is better. Just different Directx. If I had a Directx 11 or higher graphics card or a new computer, it will practically look the same! I wouldn't even notice a difference in comparison hardly. The texture is still the same applied.

    It wasn't always like this. The developers updated for Directx 11 on those textures.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • shirghe#4424 shirghe Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    They are to add features and stop supporting obsolete code paths, which takes money and time.

    Liar. How much did it cost them compared to multilingual voiceovers and overall profits? $1 out of $100'000'000?
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022

    micky1p00 said:

    They are to add features and stop supporting obsolete code paths, which takes money and time.

    Liar. How much did it cost them compared to multilingual voiceovers and overall profits? $1 out of $100'000'000?
    Liar?

    Because you no longer can play the game and butt-hurt about it, doesn't make me a liar. It also doesn't make your wishful thinking or your baseless assumptions true.

    You have no clue how software companies work. Either get experience in one, reach some meaningful position, and come back to us, or at least research the topic and present something more than repeated nonsense.

    Translation is mandatory for EU market, Voice over has competitive benefit, showing a better product. Supporting specifically non-paying or low-paying customers like you obviously had lower return than the voice overs. Otherwise you would have seen removal of voice overs and support for windows xp....
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    mwk said:

    The floors and trees were already added. I'm just asking what exactly was done for an improvement? Like really that's it? I already knew it was coming. It just seems rather ridiculous of a graphics display update that doesn't make any sense to actually update! This game will take years to rewrite everything as a full Directx 11 game coding because it's that old of a game. Like seriously just the floors and trees? What exactly is the difference on the appearance? It's just different Directx coding, but looks the same practically! It's the developers decision to waste their time updating with Directx 11. Go right ahead developers.

    Why you keep repeating this. Who said that you need to "rewrite the game for directx 11" ?
    DirectX is a feature set, for example in one you don't have tessellation, in another you do, you just run the command and that's it. In one to do a type of lighting you need 100 lines of code, on another it comes out of the box, so you just run the command.
    You want to load a type of compressed texture, now you have more options, out of the box. No rewriting of the game.
    The point is that you get more options. (Examples are just examples, you can look the spec for exactly what features which directx supports)
    mwk said:


    It is what it is. Also stop being so callous! I already know I need a new computer! It's just some people have other priorities of their expense. I can go without playing the game for a few months or so, until I can afford something long worthwhile.

    Looks like we agree that this is a game, and nothing more. People should have more important things to worry about.
    I don't think it's being callous, it's just understanding reality, and adult priorities. The game doesn't go anyway, and actually one day, it will. Life will go on.
    mwk said:


    I just don't see how a Directx and OS change will benefit the game, when technically many MMORPGs are still running on Windows 7 support and Directx 9. Just a small performance improvement and that's it!

    Here is where you are wrong, it's not done for performance improvement, you may get some or you may not. It's done to get better visuals by built in features that come out of the box... written by Microsoft / Graphic card manufacturers. Or get the same but with less code, or without old code.

    Things that had to be written manually, now can be done on hardware, that means less code to maintain, at the end the main goal when you cut support of legacy stuff is to unify your code path's, meaning less bugs, less time spent adding anything new since you don't need to add twice, once for modern hardware / software and second time for the case of legacy..
    mwk said:


    When the game dropped Directx 9 support and ran Directx 10, there were errors.
    I think the developers don't correct their own errors in c++ programming or whatever code and that's the problem! There will still be errors and crashing in the game even with Directx 11 support!

    Also the game started with Directx 9 and when you mix old code with new code, there will be errors! So good luck developers on reworking the game to prevent the game from crashing.

    You will have bugs and issues even if it was DirectX 47365834 moving from one to another doesn't magically remove bugs. There will always be errors. But you can't expect a game to be competitive for the future unless they keep upgrading things..
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    mwk said:

    In my computer, it does not show your floor and tree. Mine is a lot better than that or I never saw yours in mine.

    It's because I'm a windows 7 and Directx 10 graphics card. Of course yours is better. Just different Directx. If I had a Directx 11 or higher graphics card or a new computer, it will practically look the same! I wouldn't even notice a difference in comparison hardly. The texture is still the same applied.

    It wasn't always like this. The developers updated for Directx 11 on those textures.
    So you are saying that there is a clear benefit for upgrading?
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    Ok, I think I have an Okish example.

    Think that we have MathX 10 that can do subtraction and addition. - and +
    Now in MathX 11 we got new feature, multiplication. So now instead of a loop of addition we can use one *. Easier, faster, less error prone. But it doesn't mean we need to remove all previous additions.
  • shirghe#4424 shirghe Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    Because you no longer can play the game and butt-hurt about it, doesn't make me a liar. It also doesn't make your wishful thinking or your baseless assumptions true.

    And once again you don't answer the question. Because "supporting" Windows 7 cost them nothing. Just like spinning up more tales about cost-benefit analysis and projecting your own shortcomings onto me costs you nothing.
    micky1p00 said:

    Ok, I think I have an Okish example.

    That's not an example, that's a made-up analogy nobody asked for.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    edited February 2022

    micky1p00 said:

    Because you no longer can play the game and butt-hurt about it, doesn't make me a liar. It also doesn't make your wishful thinking or your baseless assumptions true.

    And once again you don't answer the question. Because "supporting" Windows 7 cost them nothing. Just like spinning up more tales about cost-benefit analysis and projecting your own shortcomings onto me costs you nothing.
    It does NOT cost them nothing. It can cost a lot. Supporting Windows 7 in our company has costed us a lot. Windows 7 has limited API. To support Windows 7, we could not use newer/faster/simpler API that were available after Win 8.1. One major issue in Win7 for our company is it does not have natural high resolution clock. To support such high resolution clock in Win7, we needed to write something to emulate that but it was still not good enough because by design, there is flaw (although small flaw). That small flaw came back to bite us time to time.

    So, what does that cost us?
    1. We need to do two different port of our software. One for Win7 and one for Win8.1+. Double work.
    2. We need to test both platforms. Double work.
    3. Support issue because as I said the Win7 high resolution clock emulation has a flaw. Hence, once a blue moon, fertilizer hit the fan (there are other minor win7 issue too). Extra work for support.

    How do we cover the cost?
    User with obsolete OS has one year grace period to upgrade. ($N)
    After the first year, the support charge will be double. ($N x 2)
    The next year, another 10% will add on top. ($N x 2 x 1.10)
    The next next year, another 10% will add on top. ($N x 2 x 1.10 x 1.10)
    .....
    After they upgrade the OS, the support fee will be back to normal. ($N)
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022

    micky1p00 said:

    Because you no longer can play the game and butt-hurt about it, doesn't make me a liar. It also doesn't make your wishful thinking or your baseless assumptions true.

    And once again you don't answer the question. Because "supporting" Windows 7 cost them nothing. Just like spinning up more tales about cost-benefit analysis and projecting your own shortcomings onto me costs you nothing.
    micky1p00 said:

    Ok, I think I have an Okish example.

    That's not an example, that's a made-up analogy nobody asked for.
    You have been answered and explained multiple times, the fact that you still can't understand is only a "you" issue.
    Repeating the "cost nothing" only shows that you have no clue what the hell you talk about, and yet you repeat it.

    Go study the subject, maybe you will learn something about software, though i doubt it. But at least you will use up your time better than wasting everyone else's.

    PS: What shortcomings? I know very well how software is made, working in the field helps..

    PS2: " costs you nothing" the lack of understanding that posting costs time and time is money when in work settings is exactly the reason why you don't get the simple fact that supporting legacy things costs money.
  • wrooomwrooom Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    This is the sickest thing you can do to players around the world.
    I have put so much time and money into this game.
    I'm thinking of making a report.
    To get my money back, which is now completely lost ...
    You can not force everyone to fix the latest software etc.
    I had an active VIP and was a daily player in neverwinter.
    Now I do not know if I want to play this game anymore.
    This game was my No. 1 game on PC.
    Take and fix this back so everyone can play.
    This is a "hate". Against some players all over the world.
    So you can say that you have something against different people around the world.
    A sad player ...
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    Neverwinter shot itself in the foot.
    Applause!
    Congratulations EVE, I'm coming back!
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    wrooom said:

    This is the sickest thing you can do to players around the world.
    I have put so much time and money into this game.
    I'm thinking of making a report.
    To get my money back, which is now completely lost ...
    You can not force everyone to fix the latest software etc.
    I had an active VIP and was a daily player in neverwinter.
    Now I do not know if I want to play this game anymore.
    This game was my No. 1 game on PC.
    Take and fix this back so everyone can play.
    This is a "hate". Against some players all over the world.
    So you can say that you have something against different people around the world.
    A sad player ...

    Tipical mentality, > I want game be build and opmized for >ME<. And lets ignore rest of playerbase..

    Now thing that changes where done not cuz evs where bored,, the changes where needed.. Not only old/legacy DirectX versions where giving no benefits for newier hardware and OS, it was just like left overs, a pile of unused code lines which where more a polution than help.
    The game now runs faster, that's obvious. Before these changes, where roughly 1.4s delay.

    Not mentioned load to system declined too. As example I use laptop. before changes when I played Neverwinter CPU where at 80% use. But it still lagging, GPU only 40% use yet laging.. I even had to turn of reflections and shadows, yet still CPU where at 80% use. WHy?? The answer is that, old API can't utilise new hardware.

    Now after changes, my CPU sit up 25%, GPU also 25% and heck all on max visuals.


    Other thing, you realise that it was not Neverwinter developers who did these changes?? It was Engine Developers. And that changes affect Star Trek too.

    In short your complains about engine here is simply pointless.
    But if you really want to complain, write mail directly to Cryptic Studios office. But I doubt it would make much changes..

    Whole studio had to choose, sacrifice 2% and gain more players, or stick with 2% and sacrifice rest..

    So go on, pick.
    Stay with 2% and sacrifice rest, or sacrifice 2% and keep rest.

    Remember, while it's game for us,, for company it's just buisness.


    <blockquote class="UserQuote">

    Neverwinter shot itself in the foot.
    Applause!



    That would be the case if Cryptic Studios would not decide to update engine and clean up uneeded lines of code.

    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User


    Not mentioned load to system declined too. As example I use laptop. before changes when I played Neverwinter CPU where at 80% use. But it still lagging, GPU only 40% use yet laging.. I even had to turn of reflections and shadows, yet still CPU where at 80% use. WHy?? The answer is that, old API can't utilise new hardware.

    Now after changes, my CPU sit up 25%, GPU also 25% and heck all on max visuals.

    Now you brought this up. It is very true. I should have noticed it. Yes, the load of the system has been lower. The load of the GPU seems to lower a lot. Now you mention it, I noticed the GPU fan is not on anymore. It was on before and that bugged me a lot.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User



    That would be the case if Cryptic Studios would not decide to update engine and clean up uneeded lines of code.

    This would be so if banal laziness was not covered up with various clever phrases.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited February 2022



    This would be so if banal laziness was not covered up with various clever phrases.

    Do you want me put here a 25+++ pages long wall of text with explanations?
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited February 2022



    Do you want me put here a 25+++ pages long wall of text with explanations?

    Please do not worry. It will still be just 25 pages of empty words. And all these words will not change the fact that Cryptic Studios decided to throw out people who used Windows 7 for their own convenience or to save time. This is a betrayal, no matter how beautiful words describe it.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    Yes, to save time and hence money. Are you willing to work for free?

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, to save time and hence money. Are you willing to work for free?

    he is certainly willing to complain for free :D
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User



    Do you want me put here a 25+++ pages long wall of text with explanations?

    Please do not worry. It will still be just 25 pages of empty words. And all these words will not change the fact that Cryptic Studios decided to throw out people who used Windows 7 for their own convenience or to save time. This is a betrayal, no matter how beautiful words describe it.
    so how much zen have you bought from Cryptic in the past year to show your "support" ?
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    kalina311 said:



    so how much zen have you bought from Cryptic in the past year to show your "support" ?

    It doesn't concern you. Don't stick your nose in someone else's pocket.
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, to save time and hence money. Are you willing to work for free?

    If they tried to make really interesting and diverse modules in terms of player activity and equipment, then there would be no questions. Instead, they roll out boring content with a compulsion to actively donate to improve the stones. And then complain about the lack of time and money to support Windows 7? This is ridiculous.
    Instead of paying pathetic trolls who justify any actions of Cryptic Studios here, it would be better if they worked on the game and attracting new players... But they don't.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    You know looking at @kalina311 and @micky1p00 profiles you will find out they really waste their time here on forums.

    Do everyone a favor @kalina311 and @micky1p00
    Go level up your character or alt, since you can play the game! You really are here for your own amusement and I just proved it! Let people have their own opinions and don't call out on them! Appreciate it. I apologize I have to call you both out in the most savage way possible with truth.

    I wish there was a block function, because that will be so great! Meaning once you block someone, they can't comment with your forum screen name. And that's even with no @ tag also! And why does this forum have a LOL button? It just adds on toxicity! The LOL button really should be removed!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited February 2022
    mwk said:

    You know looking at @kalina311 and @micky1p00 profiles you will find out they really waste their time here on forums.

    So I'm not the only one who noticed that trolls are sitting here, who constantly justify any actions of Cryptic Studios...
    Where is this world heading? This is a disgrace.

    Thanks mwk B)
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