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Under 30k players in the RADQ

paladinmyst7766#9026 paladinmyst7766 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
edited December 2021 in Bug Reports (PC)
This has happened to me five times in a row. For some reason players under 30k are able to sneak their way into Lair of the Mad Mage in RADQ. This is really getting irritating as they are too under leveled and underpowered to do this dungeon. Please look into this problem as I am getting tired of having to abandon the instances and waste time waiting for the thirty minute penalty to stop only to go back on again and have another under 30k player to sneak their way in again.

Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Item level requirement for Lair of the Mad Mage is 25k. They are queuing directly for it, most probably. When you enter the Random Queue without a full group, your purpose in the game is to make other people's direct queues pop faster.


    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    People keeps forgetting the "reward" of RQ is for SERVING other players who are doing direct queue.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,092 Arc User
    Just remember, "To Serve Man" is a cookbook.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • paladinmyst7766#9026 paladinmyst7766 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    pitshade said:

    Item level requirement for Lair of the Mad Mage is 25k. They are queuing directly for it, most probably. When you enter the Random Queue without a full group, your purpose in the game is to make other people's direct queues pop faster.


    Yeah and that is bull. 25k players can't beat this dungeon. The RADQ is for players that are 30k and over. What these little sneaks do is go in solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ hoping to get high level players to carry them. It is BS! This needs to be fix as I am getting into parties where all the dps are under 30k and as a tank I am not a damage dealer and can't carry them.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    The purpose of the Random Queues is to do just what you are describing, to fill out parties for people who want to run the dungeon. If you don't want to carry those people, then you need to go with a full group. Otherwise you have no control over who you end up, by design.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • pitshade said:

    The purpose of the Random Queues is to do just what you are describing, to fill out parties for people who want to run the dungeon. If you don't want to carry those people, then you need to go with a full group. Otherwise you have no control over who you end up, by design.

    But these under 30k players don't go in random queues. They go into the Lair of Mad Mage solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ. It is getting annoying. I get it. The amount of diamonds you get from that dungeon is tempting but when you are in a party that only has under 30k dps it gets frustrating. Especially given that the first and last boss have DPS checks.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    The purpose of the random queues isn't to give you RAD it is to give those players a team to play with. It was spelled out when the RQs were added. A player queues manually for a dungeon and the RQ provides them with a party. The only way out of this is to queue in a premade, full party (still public queue restrictions).
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    edited December 2021

    pitshade said:

    The purpose of the Random Queues is to do just what you are describing, to fill out parties for people who want to run the dungeon. If you don't want to carry those people, then you need to go with a full group. Otherwise you have no control over who you end up, by design.

    But these under 30k players don't go in random queues. They go into the Lair of Mad Mage solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ. It is getting annoying. I get it. The amount of diamonds you get from that dungeon is tempting but when you are in a party that only has under 30k dps it gets frustrating. Especially given that the first and last boss have DPS checks.
    The purpose of RQ is to SERVE those solo queue. The reward of your "service" is rAD. If you don't like it, don't do RQ like me or form your own party before queuing.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • pitshade said:

    The purpose of the Random Queues is to do just what you are describing, to fill out parties for people who want to run the dungeon. If you don't want to carry those people, then you need to go with a full group. Otherwise you have no control over who you end up, by design.

    But these under 30k players don't go in random queues. They go into the Lair of Mad Mage solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ. It is getting annoying. I get it. The amount of diamonds you get from that dungeon is tempting but when you are in a party that only has under 30k dps it gets frustrating. Especially given that the first and last boss have DPS checks.
    The purpose of RQ is to SERVE those solo queue. The reward of your "service" is rAD. If you don't like it, don't do RQ like me or form your own party before queuing.
    The problem is that when someone in the party leaves for a reason (like they get disconnected) I request reinforcements and get someone who is under 30k. It is just getting annoying at this point.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    edited December 2021

    pitshade said:

    The purpose of the Random Queues is to do just what you are describing, to fill out parties for people who want to run the dungeon. If you don't want to carry those people, then you need to go with a full group. Otherwise you have no control over who you end up, by design.

    But these under 30k players don't go in random queues. They go into the Lair of Mad Mage solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ. It is getting annoying. I get it. The amount of diamonds you get from that dungeon is tempting but when you are in a party that only has under 30k dps it gets frustrating. Especially given that the first and last boss have DPS checks.
    The purpose of RQ is to SERVE those solo queue. The reward of your "service" is rAD. If you don't like it, don't do RQ like me or form your own party before queuing.
    The problem is that when someone in the party leaves for a reason (like they get disconnected) I request reinforcements and get someone who is under 30k. It is just getting annoying at this point.
    First come (first qualify) first serve for that dungeon (which has requirement of 25K), not for that RQ.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • seekey#7769 seekey Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited January 2022

    pitshade said:

    Item level requirement for Lair of the Mad Mage is 25k. They are queuing directly for it, most probably. When you enter the Random Queue without a full group, your purpose in the game is to make other people's direct queues pop faster.


    Yeah and that is bull. 25k players can't beat this dungeon. The RADQ is for players that are 30k and over. What these little sneaks do is go in solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ hoping to get high level players to carry them. It is BS! This needs to be fix as I am getting into parties where all the dps are under 30k and as a tank I am not a damage dealer and can't carry them.
    Can't beat it? Once i tried that. I changed most of my gear to lower IL ones, companion power and mounts too until my IL became 26,750 and i was "top dps" by millions over the other 2 40somethingK dps's. We managed to get to Arcturia's room without tank and healer because they left as soon as they could. Also aren't you forget that Avernus and New Sharandar weren't always part of the game? Before "The Redeemed Citadel" content 28K-29K player was considered as endgame player. So that much about the IL.

    Note: the reason for editing was to correct misspelling as English is not my native language.
    Post edited by seekey#7769 on
  • seekey#7769 seekey Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    Also i suggest to read about what scaling means.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 526 Arc User
    Hmm, but if I queue for RADQ and the requirement for that queue is an item level of at least 30.000, I would not expect ending up with party members with a lower item level than 30.000.

    In any way this is clearly a bug in my opinion. Either because players with a too low item level are put into the RADQ or because the requirement for RADQ is wrong.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    Hmm, but if I queue for RADQ and the requirement for that queue is an item level of at least 30.000, I would not expect ending up with party members with a lower item level than 30.000.

    In any way this is clearly a bug in my opinion. Either because players with a too low item level are put into the RADQ or because the requirement for RADQ is wrong.

    Yes the requirement for RADQ is 30k, however individual dungeons have different requirements. Someone could be queueing for only LoMM at 25k iL, and in the system the RADQ tries and fills those dungeon queues first before actually making a random dungeon. This is the intended purpose of Random queues, to fill direct dungeon queues. It's not a bug at all.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    edited January 2022

    Hmm, but if I queue for RADQ and the requirement for that queue is an item level of at least 30.000, I would not expect ending up with party members with a lower item level than 30.000.

    In any way this is clearly a bug in my opinion. Either because players with a too low item level are put into the RADQ or because the requirement for RADQ is wrong.

    It only means you don't understand how RQ works.
    1. RQ was created to help other players to finish the individual dungeon the "weaker" players choose to run. RQ players are there to "serve" them and have the EXTRA reward for doing so. In the Lomm example, it is 30K+ RADQ players be there to help 25K (non-RADQ) players. It is not 25K players be there as part of the RADQ. The "help" part is the reason why there is RQ. I said many times RQ is a bad idea to do the "helping" part but that was the "prime directive" of the creation of RQ. Without the "helping" part, there would not be RQ.
    2. RADQ requirement (30K) is the max requirement of the group of dungeon within RADQ grouping. Individual dungeon requirement within the group can be lower. Other (non-RQDQ) players can queue the individual dungeon directly.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • seekey#7769 seekey Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    I forgot to mention one more thing: going into dungeon in solo is only possible in private mode which is makes RQ unaviable for them.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 526 Arc User

    Hmm, but if I queue for RADQ and the requirement for that queue is an item level of at least 30.000, I would not expect ending up with party members with a lower item level than 30.000.

    In any way this is clearly a bug in my opinion. Either because players with a too low item level are put into the RADQ or because the requirement for RADQ is wrong.

    It only means you don't understand how RQ works.
    1. RQ was created to help other players to finish the individual dungeon the "weaker" players choose to run. RQ players are there to "serve" them and have the EXTRA reward for doing so. In the Lomm example, it is 30K+ RADQ players be there to help 25K (non-RADQ) players. It is not 25K players be there as part of the RADQ. The "help" part is the reason why there is RQ. I said many times RQ is a bad idea to do the "helping" part but that was the "prime directive" of the creation of RQ. Without the "helping" part, there would not be RQ.
    2. RADQ requirement (30K) is the max requirement of the group of dungeon within RADQ grouping. Individual dungeon requirement within the group can be lower. Other (non-RQDQ) players can queue the individual dungeon directly.
    Seems I really got that wrong then. Thank you for the clarification. I think it is still confusing to end up with players of a lower item level than the requirement, if I am not aware of the "helping" system, hence I'd rather see some information about this in the random queues. That would help.
  • chucknorris#1854 chucknorris Member Posts: 13 Arc User

    and as a tank

    I know the struggle, but if you are a tank, then you'll have 0 problem to join a premade group with only >30kIL players.

    just do that and you'll avoid some headhache.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234049/official-feedback-thread-random-queues/p1

    This was the forum thread where Asterdahlaid out the goals of the Random Queues. The firat goal was to make queues pop faster for those players wanting to run a dungeon of their choice, that is not Random Queue.

    "For example, if you have queued for Master of the Hunt even if no one else manually queues for that skirmish, your queue will eventually fire with 4 other players who queued for Random: Skirmish. In that sense, if you queue as an individual the queue you end up with is not entirely random. You may see recently released queues that players are manually running more often than older more obscure queues. However, if you queue with a full party of 5, the queue you arrive at will be truly random. "

    If you queue with less than a full party, you are making yourself a resource for the game to get these "Manual Queue" players into the instance they want to play. You aren't the consumer. You are the product.

    Additionally, think about RTQ. Becausd of the Demo changes, minimum IL for the queue is 40k. But you will routinely see players less than that in Tiamat. Would you expect that the minimum for Tia be raised to 40k because it is part of RTQ? Now, it may be that the IL requirement for LOMM is too low, but that is a separate matter and even so, there is no reason for it to be raised to match Infernal Citadel so you would still get players less than the RQ requirements.

    The important thing though is still, when you enter a RQ with less than a full group, you are telling the game you don't care who you are grouped with If you don't like the way that works out, take the power back and queue with a full group - even if made from LFG in PE. Otherwise again, you are offering yourself as a product or resource for the game to allocate as it sees fit.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • xenocide#6577 xenocide Member Posts: 228 Arc User

    pitshade said:

    The purpose of the Random Queues is to do just what you are describing, to fill out parties for people who want to run the dungeon. If you don't want to carry those people, then you need to go with a full group. Otherwise you have no control over who you end up, by design.

    But these under 30k players don't go in random queues. They go into the Lair of Mad Mage solo and request reinforcements from those in RADQ. It is getting annoying. I get it. The amount of diamonds you get from that dungeon is tempting but when you are in a party that only has under 30k dps it gets frustrating. Especially given that the first and last boss have DPS checks.
    You actually cannot go into Lair of the Mad mage solo and request reinforcements, so this is 100% not happening lol.

    The only way to go into a dungeon solo is to go in a private queue, in which case you cannot call for reinforcements, you have to add them manually.
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