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  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    Oh thank god. Would be miffed if I lost all those marks. Guess my armor enchantment upgrade will have to wait.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,816 Arc User
    edited October 2021

    Oh thank god. Would be miffed if I lost all those marks. Guess my armor enchantment upgrade will have to wait.

    I have over 5000 unused among characters. I have not sweated yet.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,561 Arc User

    percemer said:

    Patch notes are now available in Russian. Localisation team did an awesome work btw, as always in fact, but especially this week since there were many things.

    I also updated all the patch notes:


    Masterwork Recipe Books will now be purchasable from the Stronghold Artisan for Astral Diamonds.
    • Stronghold Masterwork recipes will be purchasable for 500,000 Astral Diamonds per book.
    • Masterwork of Sharandar recipes will be purchasable for 1,500,000 Astral Diamonds per book.
    • Masterwork tools and Masterwork fashion are now available for purchase at the Stronghold Artisan for 100,000 Astral Diamonds.


    Masterworker’s Tools should also be purchasable for 100,000 Astral Diamonds per tool pack, and here are some updates regarding the issues that have been escalated:
    • Sybella's store has been modified, and players are no longer able to exchange the Heroes Medallion; the previous store was replaced by the rewards of the Reaper's Challenge. --> It's not intended and will be fixed soon.
    • Stronghold Masterwork recipes are purchasable for 500,000 Astral Diamonds per book, instead of 100,000. --> It's intended, and patch notes were updated.
    • Masterwork of Sharandar recipes are not available in game. --> It's intended because the dev team is still working on it. These recipes will be available soon.
    • Patch notes indicate "Chultan Masterwork - Blacksmithing II now requires a Fullered Yklwah Blade to trade in." (Quest: "A Reel Catastrophe (Armorsmithing)") but players report that it still require the Brightsilver Fishing Reel. --> This issue is being investigated and will probably be fixed soon too.
    • Chultan Masterwork - Alchemy: we are currently investigating on potential issues regarding this.

    We will also investigate about the following issues: Regards,
    Okay wait what? These prices were intended? Why was none of this communicated? What is the reasoning behind such an exorbitant price besides trying to be an AD sink considering the state of the exchange? How is any of this remotely fair? There needs to be either a change back to the original prices or compensation for the bait and switch. Who has 1.5 million AD sitting around on a regular basis for one book when we thought that would buy three. It will take 15 days to refine the AD necessary for just one book. So it will take MONTHS to refine enough AD if we go that route to get everything. The changes for Mastercrafting has been badly planned, poorly communicated, and somehow rushed while being years late considering this was originally supposed to come out with Undermountain and you left pieces from that in the recipes and that's why it didn't release with Jewel of the North like it was supposed to. There needs to be a fully detailed explanation and post from the devs about the reasons for these changes and there needs to be more transparency. While I read the forums and do preview a lot of your player base does not and they wouldn't find out about these changes until the patch notes (which again were wrong) and there was no time to plan. There was nothing on your social media or even the front page of this website saying that these changes were coming so how is this remotely fair to any of them?

    We only got to test this for like 2 weeks maybe three at most and none of our feedback in the Preview forums were even followed or acknowledged. Also most of this stuff isn't even worth making. The Wootz tools are weaker than the Cobalt tools in what they provide to Proficiency and Focus. Considering that the Chult Mastercraft recipes requires 1400 proficiency I can imagine the Sharandar ones will require 1500 so even with the Forgehammer of Gond and having Epic Artisans with 450 proficiency we'll be at 60% at most and while I know this is supposed to be a challenge this is ridiculous. Especially with the added insult of the raised cost of the Recipe books to begin with. Crafting itself is still completely borked because of the Level 20 level squish. All recipes need to be reviewed and changed.

    The exchange store is awful as well. What are we supposed to do with the single items? Why wasn't this just done the same as last time where we exchanged old materials for different levels of vouchers and bought new materials for varying prices? And under the Antiquity tab is it a bug or a feature that the only items it says I can trade in are +1 items? What am I supposed to do with the rest?

    There needs to be an actual discussion between the player base and the devs. There needs to be transparency behind the design process. I know @nitocris83 is out sick but @ambassadorkael#6946 and @percemer you have some big shoes to fill to put out these fires and explain these things to your player base. We DESERVE a response and acknowledgement of Cryptic's failings in this matter.
    First off, the Community Manager, Nitocris has been sick for a while, and has likely been out of the loop, so communication is going to be a bit laggy. Ambassadorkael is the CM for STO and at most does copy paste of what the NW devs give him, and percemer is not an employee of Cryptic and only has limited means of communicating with the dev team.

    Secondly, for most players, it cost WAY more than 1 mil to go from MW 1-5, in mats that you will never get back, not to mention all the accrued failures you get along the way. Even at 500k per book, this is a good alternative. Even the new Sharandar price is an improvement over what could have been, had then gone with the normal questing/commission route.

    I agree with the point about the exchange store.

    Sharandar crafting success on preview was similar to that of Chultan (or MW 4-5 with the old system). Nothing new or harder here. I believe I had 70% with Rare artisan and the Forgehammer.

    I don't see what the problem is with having to save up for 25 days of rAD per profession to reach the pinnacle of crafting for each profession. That is a lot less time it would take for a character to get to similar gear levels via dungeoneering, hunts, etc. Things are not going to be handed out.
  • polysatyr81polysatyr81 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    arazith07 said:


    First off, the Community Manager, Nitocris has been sick for a while, and has likely been out of the loop, so communication is going to be a bit laggy. Ambassadorkael is the CM for STO and at most does copy paste of what the NW devs give him, and percemer is not an employee of Cryptic and only has limited means of communicating with the dev team.

    Secondly, for most players, it cost WAY more than 1 mil to go from MW 1-5, in mats that you will never get back, not to mention all the accrued failures you get along the way. Even at 500k per book, this is a good alternative. Even the new Sharandar price is an improvement over what could have been, had then gone with the normal questing/commission route.

    I agree with the point about the exchange store.

    Sharandar crafting success on preview was similar to that of Chultan (or MW 4-5 with the old system). Nothing new or harder here. I believe I had 70% with Rare artisan and the Forgehammer.

    I don't see what the problem is with having to save up for 25 days of rAD per profession to reach the pinnacle of crafting for each profession. That is a lot less time it would take for a character to get to similar gear levels via dungeoneering, hunts, etc. Things are not going to be handed out.

    On the first topic that's fine the problem is there has been consistently a sheer lack of communication on this topic. I know that devs have been switched when Magic got shut down and others have left but again this whole upgrade has been both simultaneously rushed and late. This was originally supposed to come with Undermountain when the level cap got increased to 80. They had charts and recipes already ready but something happened and boom pushed back. Then the next time it was going to get released was with Jewel but the quests to get the books were bugged (which partially explains why they changed to AD buyouts) and they still had ingredients from the old Undermountain maps in the Sharandar recipes so boom got pushed back again even worse RADIO SILENCE for three months. Then suddenly three weeks before launch of this monstrosity we get a post from @cryptic39#8917 about these changes in the Preview server and we get limited time to test them (this is where the rushed part comes in). That is when there should have been a post on the main news stream (and @nitocris83 was still around it seems then) so that all players not just the ones who use the test forums would have known about it. And they should have waited to make the change until either A. after 2x Professions was over or b. Made an to the broader community much earlier so they were prepared. I knew what I was getting into as was most people on the forums I would imagine but I'm sure like 80% of the player base doesn't use them. Also dropping these changes without the Sharandar quests even working is a little rush and sad This change does little to fix the underlying problems and honestly just creates new ones.

    Secondly, AO knows I spent more than 2.5 million to get to V that is correct. But I didn't have to drop it all at once. It was spread out over months and years (considering between STK and Chult) so there was time to get more. The problem with this price is expecting people to drop it all at once instead of over a course of several quests is where most people won't have it. And the main reason they went with this instead of the questing route is because they couldn't fix the quests. By Avernus on the preview it's the chat link between the Artisan, the Master of Coins and the person in Sharandar is broke still as well as the fact it takes AD for Armorsmithing 1 without giving the book.

    I think everyone can agree the exchange store sucks. The other big glaring thing missing is exchanging the old Wootz Steel for the new Wootz. It all becomes worthless and you can't even make more to make the armor in those areas.

    And nobody is asking things to be handed out. 500k is still very much not a handout and very expensive for majority of players. What I'm asking for is transparency on the development process, Being listened to on our complaints/suggestions when it comes to the development process and timely and widespread communication on upcoming changes that effect huge systems. They gave us months warning with the changes in Mod 15 and with the combat changes but somehow huge crafting changes we get three weeks it doesn't make sense and it's painful. Now I have a feeling I need to go create that spreadsheet I've been wanting to with how the 1-20 recipes should actually be spread out after the level squish and even more so now that the Mastercrafting I quests are gone.

  • polysatyr81polysatyr81 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    ilmenira said:

    masterworks changes feel messy and little thought through.

    i spent about 15 millions recently (including materials for possible next steps), but (luckily) gave up before embarking on level IV (which looked like a very painful process). i think everything has been said about it by others in this thread.

    now, what would have been OBVIOUS enhancements?

    > an ACCOUNT WIDE bag for materials (which is big enough!)
    > move masterworks to the workshop
    > include material exchange to the workshop managers menu (with vouchers, so we can buy what we need)
    > give vouchers for the (very expensive) old books instead of worthless supplement bags
    > arrange the materials in the managers menu so we can find things more easily (or give us sorting options)
    ...

    THOSE are all amazing enhancements and QOL changes that I can get behind. And this is why I haven't exchanged anything yet and recommend to my alliance members not to either because I feel like this system could be done better and they're maybe working on a change.
  • polysatyr81polysatyr81 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    On PC the Master of the Market in Port Nyanzaru gave me the "A Reel Disappointment" quest which is the quest for Chultan Armorsmithing Rank V I believe. What's even more interesting is that it requires the Brightsilver Reel which would be impossible since Brightsilver is taken out of the game. And @arazith07 to prove what I'm talking about while I was googling to figure out the name of the NPC in Chult I found this blog post about the Masterwork Upgrade back then. This was posted on January 24th a full month before they released the update on February 27th. Which is a full month of notice. They didn't do that this time and BORKED OVER a bunch of people with this update. That's why I'm being very adamant about them owing us something for a rushed half completed poorly communicated change. Because they have done better in the past and they should be held up to that standard. I know the pandemic is still going on and messing things up but that doesn't excuse a lack of communication. All that excuses is how long it took. I had rather they had waited until Mod 22 in January to roll this out if that meant we were going to get this done correctly instead of what we got now. That's it.
    https://www.arcgames.com/fr/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10778574-dev-blog%3A-masterwork-professions-in-lost-city-of-omu
  • inspecter68inspecter68 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    First off, the Community Manager, Nitocris has been sick for a while, and has likely been out of the loop, so communication is going to be a bit laggy. Ambassadorkael is the CM for STO and at most does copy paste of what the NW devs give him, and percemer is not an employee of Cryptic and only has limited means of communicating with the dev team.

    Secondly, for most players, it cost WAY more than 1 mil to go from MW 1-5, in mats that you will never get back, not to mention all the accrued failures you get along the way. Even at 500k per book, this is a good alternative. Even the new Sharandar price is an improvement over what could have been, had then gone with the normal questing/commission route.

    I agree with the point about the exchange store.

    Sharandar crafting success on preview was similar to that of Chultan (or MW 4-5 with the old system). Nothing new or harder here. I believe I had 70% with Rare artisan and the Forgehammer.

    I don't see what the problem is with having to save up for 25 days of rAD per profession to reach the pinnacle of crafting for each profession. That is a lot less time it would take for a character to get to similar gear levels via dungeoneering, hunts, etc. Things are not going to be handed out.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I find it curious how people seem to know how long someone is sick, or even when they got sick to begin with. If she has been sick though, it is Cryptics responseability to assign someone to take her place for the duration. As to how long she has been sick? Well, Nitocris famously ignores all but the most trivial of complaints.

    Then there is this discussion of Mastercrafting. Arazith07, you seem to be arguing that this new system is better and cheaper. But that's only for people how haven't finished mastercrafting or haven't progressed very far. Your argument completely leaves out the people who have already spent hundreds of millions of AD and years of time to complete mastercrafting. I am one of those people and this reboot completely wipes out all of the time and money I've spent and requires me to start all over again from scratch. Why do I have to start mastercrafting again from the beginning. The new cost is irrelevant. The fact that I have already completed it and now have to start all over again is. Where is the fairness in that?

    Then there is this discussion of mastercrafting being chultan mastercrafting and not stronghold mastercrafting. Well, I started it six and a half years ago when I started playing, long before Chult was even a mod. So, 1-5 very much were stronghold mastercrafting. Chult was an addition they put out and was never worth anything. I want to know why all of the useful recipes in favor of chutan recipes.

    To sum it up, those who were partially through the old Mastercrafting should be compensated with the new books for the categories and levels that they have already completed. Anyone who has already completed all of mastercrafting should get all of the current books in its entirety, sharendar not withstanding since it's a new set of recipes.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,561 Arc User


    I find it curious how people seem to know how long someone is sick, or even when they got sick to begin with. If she has been sick though, it is Cryptics responseability to assign someone to take her place for the duration. As to how long she has been sick? Well, Nitocris famously ignores all but the most trivial of complaints.

    Then there is this discussion of Mastercrafting. Arazith07, you seem to be arguing that this new system is better and cheaper. But that's only for people how haven't finished mastercrafting or haven't progressed very far. Your argument completely leaves out the people who have already spent hundreds of millions of AD and years of time to complete mastercrafting. I am one of those people and this reboot completely wipes out all of the time and money I've spent and requires me to start all over again from scratch. Why do I have to start mastercrafting again from the beginning. The new cost is irrelevant. The fact that I have already completed it and now have to start all over again is. Where is the fairness in that?

    Then there is this discussion of mastercrafting being chultan mastercrafting and not stronghold mastercrafting. Well, I started it six and a half years ago when I started playing, long before Chult was even a mod. So, 1-5 very much were stronghold mastercrafting. Chult was an addition they put out and was never worth anything. I want to know why all of the useful recipes in favor of chutan recipes.

    To sum it up, those who were partially through the old Mastercrafting should be compensated with the new books for the categories and levels that they have already completed. Anyone who has already completed all of mastercrafting should get all of the current books in its entirety, sharendar not withstanding since it's a new set of recipes.

    Before Chult, there was only MW 1-3, MW 1-2 involved leveling zones, 3 involved SKT maps, and Chult IS 4-5. The quests are in Chult, the commission NPC is in Chult, the only time you go to the stronghold was for maps and the starter quest, and you needed access to a high enough guild. Now ofc they can be interchanged, but show up in your profession window as Chultan Masterwork. If you've been playing for 6.5 years, you ought to have known this.

    I am one of those people who have completed mastercrafting, and have made back that money I invested. I realize that not everyone had the chance to make that money, and it hurts though that had invested in it in the last few years when MW items weren't really sought. But to say that you have to start over again after completing MW is completely false. If you completed it, you should have Chultan/SH Masterwork recipes and be able to exchange the old recipe books. If you don't, then there is a bug and you should report it, and be mindful of the bugs that they have already acknowledged and wait for them to fix it.

    I've always said that the exchange for the old recipes does not give fair compensation, but it does give something for the removed levels.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,816 Arc User
    arazith07 said:


    I find it curious how people seem to know how long someone is sick, or even when they got sick to begin with. If she has been sick though, it is Cryptics responseability to assign someone to take her place for the duration. As to how long she has been sick? Well, Nitocris famously ignores all but the most trivial of complaints.

    Then there is this discussion of Mastercrafting. Arazith07, you seem to be arguing that this new system is better and cheaper. But that's only for people how haven't finished mastercrafting or haven't progressed very far. Your argument completely leaves out the people who have already spent hundreds of millions of AD and years of time to complete mastercrafting. I am one of those people and this reboot completely wipes out all of the time and money I've spent and requires me to start all over again from scratch. Why do I have to start mastercrafting again from the beginning. The new cost is irrelevant. The fact that I have already completed it and now have to start all over again is. Where is the fairness in that?

    Then there is this discussion of mastercrafting being chultan mastercrafting and not stronghold mastercrafting. Well, I started it six and a half years ago when I started playing, long before Chult was even a mod. So, 1-5 very much were stronghold mastercrafting. Chult was an addition they put out and was never worth anything. I want to know why all of the useful recipes in favor of chutan recipes.

    To sum it up, those who were partially through the old Mastercrafting should be compensated with the new books for the categories and levels that they have already completed. Anyone who has already completed all of mastercrafting should get all of the current books in its entirety, sharendar not withstanding since it's a new set of recipes.

    Before Chult, there was only MW 1-3, MW 1-2 involved leveling zones, 3 involved SKT maps, and Chult IS 4-5. The quests are in Chult, the commission NPC is in Chult, the only time you go to the stronghold was for maps and the starter quest, and you needed access to a high enough guild. Now ofc they can be interchanged, but show up in your profession window as Chultan Masterwork. If you've been playing for 6.5 years, you ought to have known this.

    I am one of those people who have completed mastercrafting, and have made back that money I invested. I realize that not everyone had the chance to make that money, and it hurts though that had invested in it in the last few years when MW items weren't really sought. But to say that you have to start over again after completing MW is completely false. If you completed it, you should have Chultan/SH Masterwork recipes and be able to exchange the old recipe books. If you don't, then there is a bug and you should report it, and be mindful of the bugs that they have already acknowledged and wait for them to fix it.

    I've always said that the exchange for the old recipes does not give fair compensation, but it does give something for the removed levels.
    I have long impression that Cryptic wants to drive 'unproductive' veterans out baby step and baby step through small (in terms of not hitting everyone) irritating things to upset them. They want to see how much straws a camel can carry.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,561 Arc User

    arazith07 said:


    I find it curious how people seem to know how long someone is sick, or even when they got sick to begin with. If she has been sick though, it is Cryptics responseability to assign someone to take her place for the duration. As to how long she has been sick? Well, Nitocris famously ignores all but the most trivial of complaints.

    Then there is this discussion of Mastercrafting. Arazith07, you seem to be arguing that this new system is better and cheaper. But that's only for people how haven't finished mastercrafting or haven't progressed very far. Your argument completely leaves out the people who have already spent hundreds of millions of AD and years of time to complete mastercrafting. I am one of those people and this reboot completely wipes out all of the time and money I've spent and requires me to start all over again from scratch. Why do I have to start mastercrafting again from the beginning. The new cost is irrelevant. The fact that I have already completed it and now have to start all over again is. Where is the fairness in that?

    Then there is this discussion of mastercrafting being chultan mastercrafting and not stronghold mastercrafting. Well, I started it six and a half years ago when I started playing, long before Chult was even a mod. So, 1-5 very much were stronghold mastercrafting. Chult was an addition they put out and was never worth anything. I want to know why all of the useful recipes in favor of chutan recipes.

    To sum it up, those who were partially through the old Mastercrafting should be compensated with the new books for the categories and levels that they have already completed. Anyone who has already completed all of mastercrafting should get all of the current books in its entirety, sharendar not withstanding since it's a new set of recipes.

    Before Chult, there was only MW 1-3, MW 1-2 involved leveling zones, 3 involved SKT maps, and Chult IS 4-5. The quests are in Chult, the commission NPC is in Chult, the only time you go to the stronghold was for maps and the starter quest, and you needed access to a high enough guild. Now ofc they can be interchanged, but show up in your profession window as Chultan Masterwork. If you've been playing for 6.5 years, you ought to have known this.

    I am one of those people who have completed mastercrafting, and have made back that money I invested. I realize that not everyone had the chance to make that money, and it hurts though that had invested in it in the last few years when MW items weren't really sought. But to say that you have to start over again after completing MW is completely false. If you completed it, you should have Chultan/SH Masterwork recipes and be able to exchange the old recipe books. If you don't, then there is a bug and you should report it, and be mindful of the bugs that they have already acknowledged and wait for them to fix it.

    I've always said that the exchange for the old recipes does not give fair compensation, but it does give something for the removed levels.
    I have long impression that Cryptic wants to drive 'unproductive' veterans out baby step and baby step through small (in terms of not hitting everyone) irritating things to upset them. They want to see how much straws a camel can carry.
    I won't deny one way or another, though I think they've been focusing on new player content as that is where the money is. But I think that's for another thread.

    I'm mainly just trying to correct those who are just factually incorrect, though that may be miscommunicated when I insert my opinions along with the fact correcting.
  • percemerpercemer Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 654 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Hello,

    On PC the Master of the Market in Port Nyanzaru gave me the "A Reel Disappointment" quest which is the quest for Chultan Armorsmithing Rank V I believe. What's even more interesting is that it requires the Brightsilver Reel which would be impossible since Brightsilver is taken out of the game.

    We're aware of this; the quest "A Reel Catastrophe (Armorsmithing)" should not be available, and the dev team will fix it as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience!
    arazith07 said:

    percemer is not an employee of Cryptic and only has limited means of communicating with the dev team.

    I am indeed not an employee of Cryptic (as indicated in my signature, but we're still a family), but Perfect World, and let me reassure you, I don't have "limited means of communication with the dev team". By the way, we don't ignore any feedback even if we don't answer to everything. I'll follow up internally feedback and potential bugs on Monday.

    Thank you again for your patience and understanding!

    Regards,
    Percemer
    EU Community Manager @ Gearbox Publishing
    ----------
    Neverwinter: Facebook - Twitter - YouTube - Customer Support - Terms of Service - Discord
  • polysatyr81polysatyr81 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    percemer said:

    Hello,

    On PC the Master of the Market in Port Nyanzaru gave me the "A Reel Disappointment" quest which is the quest for Chultan Armorsmithing Rank V I believe. What's even more interesting is that it requires the Brightsilver Reel which would be impossible since Brightsilver is taken out of the game.

    We're aware of this; the quest "A Reel Catastrophe (Armorsmithing)" should not be available, and the dev team will fix it as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience!
    arazith07 said:

    percemer is not an employee of Cryptic and only has limited means of communicating with the dev team.

    I am indeed not an employee of Cryptic (as indicated in my signature, but we're still a family), but Perfect World, and let me reassure you, I don't have "limited means of communication with the dev team". By the way, we don't ignore any feedback even if we don't answer to everything. I'll follow up internally feedback and potential bugs on Monday.

    Thank you again for your patience and understanding!

    Regards,
    @percemer Thank you for being quick on the some of the responses. And while I know It's impossible to answer all the feedback I feel I made some very valid points about transparency, the rushed change and the need for clarity on what the end goal for Mastercrafting and Crafting in General because right now it's at a very precarious and half completed spot that at least acknowledgement that 1. there's a problem, 2. that it is being worked on, 3. what exactly is being worked on so people can prepare and 4. an ETA for fixes. As I stated above we were given a full months notice to everyone that Chult Mastercraft was coming and all that did was add stuff but all these changes were made without a Dev's Blog and without full time to respond to them in Preview or to receive feedback from the overall community. Combat Changes and the Level Squish got long lead times and time for us to prepare I just don't understand why something as important to people and the in game economy like Crafting was not.
  • inspecter68inspecter68 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    arazith07 said:
    » show previous quotes
    Before Chult, there was only MW 1-3, MW 1-2 involved leveling zones, 3 involved SKT maps, and Chult IS 4-5. The quests are in Chult, the commission NPC is in Chult, the only time you go to the stronghold was for maps and the starter quest, and you needed access to a high enough guild. Now ofc they can be interchanged, but show up in your profession window as Chultan Masterwork. If you've been playing for 6.5 years, you ought to have known this.

    I am one of those people who have completed mastercrafting, and have made back that money I invested. I realize that not everyone had the chance to make that money, and it hurts though that had invested in it in the last few years when MW items weren't really sought. But to say that you have to start over again after completing MW is completely false. If you completed it, you should have Chultan/SH Masterwork recipes and be able to exchange the old recipe books. If you don't, then there is a bug and you should report it, and be mindful of the bugs that they have already acknowledged and wait for them to fix it.

    I've always said that the exchange for the old recipes does not give fair compensation, but it does give something for the removed levels.

    I'm mainly just trying to correct those who are just factually incorrect, though that may be miscommunicated when I insert my opinions along with the fact correcting.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Miscommunicated. Fact correcting. So the overbearing, condescending and person insulting is completely unintentional. It's called a mistake, normal people make them, alot. Yes MC 4&5 were chult. Doesn't change the fact that it started out in the stronghold and still does, unless you have information that no one else has. You still have to buy MC books from the artisan in the stronghold, which still makes it part of mastercrafting until they decide to put that artisan in PE or anywhere else. BTW, I'm terrible at spelling too. Maybe you can "correct" that too.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,561 Arc User


    Miscommunicated. Fact correcting. So the overbearing, condescending and person insulting is completely unintentional. It's called a mistake, normal people make them, alot. Yes MC 4&5 were chult. Doesn't change the fact that it started out in the stronghold and still does, unless you have information that no one else has. You still have to buy MC books from the artisan in the stronghold, which still makes it part of mastercrafting until they decide to put that artisan in PE or anywhere else. BTW, I'm terrible at spelling too. Maybe you can "correct" that too.

    What useful recipes were gotten rid of with this masterwork change? Why are you having to start all over again if you completed Mastercrafting? You still haven't answered those questions. BTW, I said that now SH and Chultan Masterwork can be interchanged.
  • inspecter68inspecter68 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    duvaindess Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    October 20
    So to sum up some ....
    1) you get your recipes now with AD and no quests. So this game is even more .... more hack and slash
    2) Book exchange deletes your recipes you already know and you have to purchase them again (seriously?)
    3) There are no Sharandar recipes yet
    4) material space is actually an issue I got to use alts for bag space (a nuisance, but it is there - really bad for people with not many alts) / Consider account-wide workshop storage? - like account bank?

    .... and mention a few more....

    1) some old crafts like carpets for guild hall need Cashmere Yarn that is nowhere to be found as a recipe. (Yes some of us took time to something different from just killing anything moving in your dungeons.....) - is there going to be some changes to those recipes?
    2) collections for masterwork artifact equipment stats aren't updated, but i guess this is minor (we can use other collection items to compare them)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is you answer Arazith07. You exchange your books and lose your recipes and have to purchase them again. Let's not forget that someone else reported that when you exchange your high grade materials, it's a 5 for 1 deal and you get whatever they say you can have and not what you need. Not that anyone has any idea what they need since they don't have the sharendar recipes out yet. BTW, you're still being obnoxious and condescending.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,561 Arc User

    duvaindess Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    October 20
    So to sum up some ....
    1) you get your recipes now with AD and no quests. So this game is even more .... more hack and slash
    2) Book exchange deletes your recipes you already know and you have to purchase them again (seriously?)
    3) There are no Sharandar recipes yet
    4) material space is actually an issue I got to use alts for bag space (a nuisance, but it is there - really bad for people with not many alts) / Consider account-wide workshop storage? - like account bank?

    .... and mention a few more....

    1) some old crafts like carpets for guild hall need Cashmere Yarn that is nowhere to be found as a recipe. (Yes some of us took time to something different from just killing anything moving in your dungeons.....) - is there going to be some changes to those recipes?
    2) collections for masterwork artifact equipment stats aren't updated, but i guess this is minor (we can use other collection items to compare them)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is you answer Arazith07. You exchange your books and lose your recipes and have to purchase them again. Let's not forget that someone else reported that when you exchange your high grade materials, it's a 5 for 1 deal and you get whatever they say you can have and not what you need. Not that anyone has any idea what they need since they don't have the sharendar recipes out yet. BTW, you're still being obnoxious and condescending.

    There is no losing recipes you have to buy again. There are losing recipes, yes, but there is nothing you have to rebuy if you already had it before. If you had MW 4 and 5 before, you don't have to buy Chultan Masterwork 1 or 2 because they are the same thing. MW 1-3 went away, there is no purchasing them again. If you only had MW up to level 3 before, you still needed to work on 4 and 5 before. Now, when you start Mastercrafting, you start at 4 (or Chultan Masterwork 1) and no longer bother with 1-3.

    The recipes lost, are all 10+ mods old and no one was using them aside from working your way to Chultan, or Guild Deco, which we've been told will be reworked once they actually have the ability to dedicate a mod to the guild rework. (Meaning it will come back)

    As far as the exchange goes, I'm with everyone else here, it's not up to snuff, that's all opinion though.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,816 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    In my opinion,

    if you have not done any MW, the change is the easy way to get into it.

    if you have finished MW1 to MW3, you did not lose anything material because of the change. The reasons is what you got from MW1 to MW3 are pretty much useless. Other than "yeah! I did MW1 to MW3", there is no difference before and after the change. No difference because MW1 to MW3 more or less give you nothing before the change anyway. I am in this group with 2 characters finished all profession for MW3.

    If you were in process to do MW1 to MW3, I consider it is a good news to you because you can stop wasting more time to get more or less nothing. You cut your loss and move forward easier. You can jump over MW4 and MW5 with AD. Do you prefer to continue the sad journey to get nothing before the change or you may be able to go forward in foresee future after the change?

    If you already finish MW5, what I heard so far is you lose nothing but there is sour taste that it is cheaper to get to where you are and you will have tons of competitors in the future. The 'special' group suddenly becomes bigger. Your "pay" in the "pay day" will be smaller.

    If you were in the process to get to MW4 and MW5, yes, there is a waste of the material you gathered/crafted/purchased and planed to use them to get to MW5. Is the new change good for this group? That depends on where in the middle of the process. May be yes if you want to get through this sad journey with less pain. BTW, do MW4 and MW5 provide anything "useful"?



    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • yamioni#9870 yamioni Member Posts: 55 Arc User


    If you were in process to do MW1 to MW3, I consider it is a good news to you because you can stop wasting more time to get more or less nothing. You cut your loss and move forward easier. You can jump over MW4 and MW5 with AD. Do you prefer to continue the sad journey to get nothing before the change or you may be able to go forward in foresee future after the change?

    Let's try a real-world analogy to try to illustrate why this change is bollocks for people who were doing 1-3...

    Let's say you're working towards a driving license. Let's say the requirements include 30 hours of road time with an instructor. So you go to work on it, and instructors only schedule two hour slots, so it takes 15 sessions to meet the requirements. Let's say you reach 10 sessions, and then the government decides to change things up. They come in and say:

    "
    Hey, we have great news for everyone! Now you only need to do 10 hours of driving time with a DBOA certified instructor, down from the previous 30! Anyone with a current license will not be subject to these requirements.

    Instructors may sign up to receive the new DBOA certification immediately!
    "

    But your instructor wasn't DBOA certified, because the government just invented it. So the time and money you spent on those 20 hours of driving? Wasted. Start over.

    That is what happened here. The path to the end got shorter, but unless you reached that "checkpoint" that didn't change, any invested time and money just went *poof*
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,816 Arc User
    edited October 2021


    If you were in process to do MW1 to MW3, I consider it is a good news to you because you can stop wasting more time to get more or less nothing. You cut your loss and move forward easier. You can jump over MW4 and MW5 with AD. Do you prefer to continue the sad journey to get nothing before the change or you may be able to go forward in foresee future after the change?

    Let's try a real-world analogy to try to illustrate why this change is bollocks for people who were doing 1-3...

    Let's say you're working towards a driving license. Let's say the requirements include 30 hours of road time with an instructor. So you go to work on it, and instructors only schedule two hour slots, so it takes 15 sessions to meet the requirements. Let's say you reach 10 sessions, and then the government decides to change things up. They come in and say:

    "
    Hey, we have great news for everyone! Now you only need to do 10 hours of driving time with a DBOA certified instructor, down from the previous 30! Anyone with a current license will not be subject to these requirements.

    Instructors may sign up to receive the new DBOA certification immediately!
    "

    But your instructor wasn't DBOA certified, because the government just invented it. So the time and money you spent on those 20 hours of driving? Wasted. Start over.

    That is what happened here. The path to the end got shorter, but unless you reached that "checkpoint" that didn't change, any invested time and money just went *poof*
    It is you are working on your car driver license at the time car is already obsolete for years. However, you still want to do it because without car driver license, you cannot get your flying mobile license.

    What is your option?
    1. You can continue to get your car license and when you are studying, the world has no car anymore. However, you can continue to get your car driver license because you are in the middle of it and don't mind to spend more time and money to get an useless license. It used to need that useless license before getting flying mobile license. [Before the change].
    or
    2. You are allowed to skip the car driver license red tape and go directly to learn how to operate a flying mobile. [after the change].

    So, if the government gives you that 2 choices, which one will you pick in real world situation?

    Before the change, you have been trying to get a driver license (MW1 to MW3) and car does not exist already (there is nothing useful came out from MW1 to MW3). As I said, I made 2 characters to have MW3 for all profession. What did I make from MW1 to MW3? Nothing. Not even one piece of anything. Level 20 (used to be level 80) normal crafting has better stuff than MW1 to MW3.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • yamioni#9870 yamioni Member Posts: 55 Arc User


    It is you are working on your car driver license at the time car is already obsolete for years. However, you still want to do it because without car driver license, you cannot get your flying mobile license.

    What is your option?
    1. You can continue to get your car license and when you are studying, the world has no car anymore. However, you can continue to get your car driver license because you are in the middle of it and don't mind to spend more time and money to get an useless license. It used to need that useless license before getting flying mobile license. [Before the change].
    or
    2. You are allowed to skip the car driver license red tape and go directly to learn how to operate a flying mobile. [after the change].

    So, if the government gives you that 2 choices, which one will you pick in real world situation?

    Before the change, you have been trying to get a driver license (MW1 to MW3) and car does not exist already (there is nothing useful came out from MW1 to MW3). As I said, I made 2 characters to have MW3 for all profession. What did I make from MW1 to MW3? Nothing. Not even one piece of anything. Level 20 (used to be level 80) normal crafting has better stuff than MW1 to MW3.

    Your argument makes no sense. You're calling 1-3 "ground car" and 4+ flying car. Okay. In the old system, both "ground car" and "flying car" existed, and to even get a license for a flying car, you had to already have a ground car license. One lead to the other.

    The ground car may have been obsolete, but it was still something that you wereobligated to do. Your question of "which one would you choose?" is only relevant to people who had nothing invested in the previous system. Anyone already invested in the system didn't get that choice; they were subjected to both choices...

    See, in the real world, we have this concept called "grandfathering", where-by people who are already invested in a system are compensated for that investment (or allowed to keep what they have, when possible) when drastic changes are made to that system.

    It's called customer retention. It costs a company less to keep a current customer happy, than it does to earn an entirely new customer. Most companies understand this. Cryptic's recent behavior seems to indicate they skipped that lecture.

    You say you had gotten MW to level 3, which is further than I had gotten. How cheaply do you value your own time that you aren't upset by this change?
  • gavw#7443 gavw Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Got to say I agree with yamioni on this one... I've been really disappointed with the recent MW changes...

    Firstly I much preferred the quests route that involved purchasing maps, gathering materials and crafting stuff to turn in... yes it was a bit of a grind but it felt more of an accomplishment rather than just throwing in half a million AD

    I can overlook that though... after all it's just personal preference... and yes it is much cheaper / quicker now with the changes...

    What has been the major frustration though is what yamioni has been consistently referencing... the lack of adequate compensation for those of us who have literally spent hundreds of hours obtaining guild marks to purchase maps, gathering a load of materials from those maps and using those materials to craft items to turn in for the MW 1-3 books

    And what can we exchange those books that have taken hundreds of hours of game time to obtain... a few next to worthless profession supplements... it does feel like a bit of a slap in the face honestly

    As someone who was working through MW 1-3 with 8 characters I'm now in the same position that a new player is in... there was ultimately no point in me ever starting the MW quests because after all those hours I spent on it over the course of 2-3 years... all I now have to show for it is a few obsolete books that I can trade for a few supplements

    I think that's what's most annoying to a lot of players... there's just nothing to recognise the effort for those who completed / part completed MW 1-3

    So many hours wasted just for the progression to be reset to zero ultimately
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,816 Arc User
    edited October 2021


    You say you had gotten MW to level 3, which is further than I had gotten. How cheaply do you value your own time that you aren't upset by this change?

    For me, I hope I am in your position instead of finishing 2 characters with all profession MW3. Other than the "badge: I did it" (yes, I did that for 2 characters without spending any AD), there is nothing to show for. The only reason I did that is because it was the requirement to go further.

    Yes, it was waste of effort but it was waste of effort before the change already. So, it is indifference to me regarding "waste of effort" before and after the change.

    There is a lot of waste of effort in life because stuff gets obsoleted.

    I don't think you know what MW1 to MW3 give you. It gives you recipes to use rare material (mean expensive) to create stuff which is useless comparing with normal crafting gives you. After you have those recipes like me, you will not craft anything beyond cosmetic (and normal crafting probably will also give you the same thing) or for the kick. Sure, you can make material to sell to the next poor soul who is working on MW1 to MW3 but it is a pyramid scheme for making nothing useful.

    The only reason for getting MW1 to MW3 was to allow you to "begin" MW4 (not finish).
    I also think the stuff in MW4 and MW5 are already obsolete.

    If you want to continue the old route, it means:
    1. you continue to do MW1 to MW3 to get nothing.
    2. you continue to do MW4 and MS5 to get nothing.
    3. by the time, you finish 1 and 2 (through the old route), MW6 and MW7 will also be obsolete.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • tommy069#5108 tommy069 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/post/quote/1263238/Comment_13194267


    You say you had gotten MW to level 3, which is further than I had gotten. How cheaply do you value your own time that you aren't upset by this change?

    For me, I hope I am in your position instead of finishing 2 characters with all profession MW3. Other than the "badge: I did it" (yes, I did that for 2 characters without spending any AD), there is nothing to show for. The only reason I did that is because it was the requirement to go further.

    Yes, it was waste of effort but it was waste of effort before the change already. So, it is indifference to me regarding "waste of effort" before and after the change.

    There is a lot of waste of effort in life because stuff gets obsoleted.

    I don't think you know what MW1 to MW3 give you. It gives you recipes to use rare material (mean expensive) to create stuff which is useless comparing with normal crafting gives you. After you have those recipes like me, you will not craft anything beyond cosmetic (and normal crafting probably will also give you the same thing) or for the kick. Sure, you can make material to sell to the next poor soul who is working on MW1 to MW3 but it is a pyramid scheme for making nothing useful.

    The only reason for getting MW1 to MW3 was to allow you to "begin" MW4 (not finish).
    I also think the stuff in MW4 and MW5 are already obsolete.

    If you want to continue the old route, it means:
    1. you continue to do MW1 to MW3 to get nothing.
    2. you continue to do MW4 and MS5 to get nothing.
    3. by the time, you finish 1 and 2 (through the old route), MW6 and MW7 will also be obsolete.
    You say that it was a waste of effort before hand, but that only applies to Character Gear for chasing IL.

    I was doing great business.

    Don't get me wrong, I wasn't set to retire by the beach, but I'd say that a good number of Guilds on XBox with Green "Runners" and Ebony Furniture have some of my handiwork in their Guild Hall, judging by the amount I made and sold over the years. (Did some good business a couple of years ago on Stone Fireplaces too...)

    WHATEVER new MW Recipes are brought in to replace my old ones to continue to make that stuff, will be of absolutely no use to me, because my Guild isn't high enough level for me to have access to them. Or even to buy the Charts I used to farm like crazy on Double Profession Events to be able to make that stuff.

    Yet a new player can walk into a GH20, and be deemed to have done enough to "Earn" the right as long as they can cough up the required AD for the Sink to do its job, and that's all.

    I imagine there will be people running around with the new top end MW who haven't even got their "Gathering" to L20 yet.
    But that's OK... so long as they put in the hard graft of... joining an already established Guild... they deserve it!
    They worked hard to earn that HAMSTER!
    Posting in PE Chat is tough...

    The mind boggling thing is, that by swapping out "Work for it and earn it!" for "Pay lots of AD and try to sink a few billion out of the economy" and isolating this mess in Guilds instead of putting it where it belongs, (The bloody WORKSHOP!!!") they prevent people like me from throwing millions of AD down the sink.
    And I'm sitting here ready to do that. I have (sorry... HAD...) MW on almost all my characters, (was just about to start on my Bards when news of this change started to emerge... I am VERY glad I held off on it!) some have multiple Professions...

    (This is about to veer wildly off topic...)
    Unless, of course, all this is a step towards finally thinning the herd, by removing so many players from sub L20 Guilds, that hardly anyone will create a fuss should they announce that the New Guild System is coming, and every Guild below L20 has until XX date to get to L20 or it will be deleted to allow a complete reworking of the code framework on Guilds and Strongholds.
    Because like with Masterworking and Character levels, any new advancement system would be incompatible with the old, so how with MW you lost it, and with character level EVERYONE who was sub L80 got elevated to Endgame, what would expect them to do for Guilds?
    Make them ALL 20?
    Or delete them?

    Would anyone seriously imagine them giving low level Guilds any sort of help?

    Considering how hard it is for a "Not Fully End Game" player to currently even get the 30 Dungeoneers shards they were able to get prior to the Demogorgon Trial hike in IL and Dungeons like Castle Never now only giving 15 Shards, I'm thinking they have no more HAMSTER to give when it comes to anything less than L20 Guilds.

    Jared basically said in public on an interview with Silver that they are miles away from having a system to improve Guilds because the old framework of code doesn't allow for advancement beyond what was part of the original system. So If anyone wants a Guild past L20 then the whole system will need to be overhauled.
    And I can't help feeling that those of us who like being in small, friendly, bull HAMSTER free environments are being effectively told to feel free to go HAMSTER ourselves, while Cryptic oils the squeakiest wheel.

    Cos that's what it feels like we are moving toward...

    I would love for a Dev to correct me and reassure me that whatever happens with Guilds and Masterwork in the future, sub L20 Guilds will NOT be forced out of existence, or suffer as a result of any changes to the system in order to push other Guilds even higher.
  • inspecter68inspecter68 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Don't bother arguing with these people. They are part of the "Me" generation. If it has no value to me then it has no value period. This generation also wants everything now as well. They don't see that the problem with this game is the oversimplification of everything. Taking half of the content out so that brand new players can create a character and be at end game in 2 hours is a problem. New players are thrown into dungeons and they don't even know how to play there character. Striping MC down so that new players can just buy there way into it is a problem. Nobody wants to work anymore is the problem. A sense of accomplishment is what you get when you work toward you goals.

    MC used to be something to work towards. It was difficult and outrageously expensive, but it was open to everyone. It punished everyone equally. Not everyone was willing to go through that pain and they still don't, even as simplified as it is now. Most people choose to just buy there MC items instead of making them because of the ridiculously RNG rate. It also goes back to that "I want it know" mentality. They don't want to farm/make all the material only to have a failure when trying to create said item.

    You don't see value in the mc 1-3 recipes because most of them aren't really usable at face value. There states are low. But, there are people out there that buy these low level items to use as appearance items. They just want something different. Then there's the stronghold furniture. You may or may not own a guild, I do. You may have no interest in furnishing a guild, I do. All of the guild furnishings are in the recipes that have been removed. Don't quote the post from the devs that says that those recipes "may" be reintroduced at a later date. We all know that could be anywhere from a day from now to never.

    It's the old saying - It's the journey now the destination - that applies here. I never read any post complaining about how someone wanted to be able to MC, but it was just too much trouble. The company keep making changes to thing that could use updating, but not necessary instead of fixing major problems. And there are people that spend all of there time trolling the forums looking for people who complain so they can attack them in defense of the company. In my opinion, these people work for cryptic/perfect world either directly of indirectly. They get something to defend the company on the forums so the devs don't have to respond. I don't even think they read these forums. Even Nitocris83 ignores everyone on here, unless its something trivial.
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